The Official Geno Thread

[Enigma14]

lol these guys are just hilarious:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=45384639&categoryID=0&IsSticky=0&groupID=101183803&Mytoken=507CC016-DB3A-41FF-A84F538F99DE2CC193554848

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=45502316&groupID=101183803&adTopicID=14&Mytoken=07BCE447-C4B2-4494-94DA06614BD6091592867231

I just want someone to keep these in reserve, in case someone comes saying that geno fans are always talking smack.

Ahem back on topic: I agree with whoever said that Geno doesn't really need a voice, he could be like Mario and Link and only do grunts. Although its just that Geno feels like he should have a voice, he was talkative in SMRPG after all. ;p

noted.

But Geno does need a VA.

AS for your post Fatman, its just stuff we all already know but more compliacted but still gotta to love ur dedication.

 

[Devastlian]

@ Devastlian (because for some reason it won't let me post advanced):

But nothing else Mother has been updated since then... Is there a web archive we could check? Granted, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, no harm no foul, but I want to know 100% that I am/am not first.

Well...The only web archive I could find didn't have the old copyright image. (Ya, it's an image they keep reuploading as more characters are updated and more copyrights are required.)

Here's a link to an archive of August 9th before it updated.

True but the guy who does Mugen's voice, ive heard his other works and they all sound the same, anrgy like. And yes I know the emotions things >.> but again Geno is wise and jokes sometimes but isn't angry other when he faced against Boywer and Smithy.

He's doesn't sound angry in GTO.

What Devastlian said: Because it doesn't matter who makes something, just who owns the rights to it. Companies make games for other companies all the time without retaining any rights.

Fatmanonice sez: Really? Why didn't I get the memo regarding this? That would explain why some of the third party developed games that have been referenced in Brawl like DK Jungle Beat and Star Fox Assualt (Namco), Mario Party (Hudson Soft) and Sim City (Maxis) haven't been credited... If this is the case, why is Super Mario RPG any different? It's a game that has a first party franchise and was developed by a third party. Why is it pretty much the only joint project Nintendo game in the past decade to still have the rights attached to the third party that developed it? If this situation doesn't call for an exclamation of "WTF", I don't know what does...

It's because they were attached from the beginning.

DK Jungle Beat was made by Nintendo (the SMG team, actually) so I assume you mean Donkey Konga. What exactly is the copyright of each company depends on the game, really...Donkey Konga and Mario Party (at least the first one) do have copyrights for the third-parties. Sim City for the SNES has copyrights for both Nintendo and Maxis on it but Dr. Wright is apparently a Nintendo character according to Will Wright (at about 6:30:47) and, of course, Nintendo's ability to freely use him in SSBB. Golden Sun, which is developed by Camelot, has the copyrights divided rather interestingly as told by the ending. I couldn't find anything on Star Fox Assault but here's Adventure's back of the box which lists copyrights in the bottom corner.

Anyway, you see what I mean. We know from the e-mail on the first post as well as the end of M&L how things are for SMRPG stuff.

I found a source that said that Square Enix both developed and published the Japanese version. Does that have something to do with it? It was basically the first joint project between Nintendo and a third party so I guess I could understand why this whole situation is a bit weird.

No no no...Publisher doesn't really have much to do with it, really. That just says who can release the game. The characters and other intellectual property is all copyright.

*After thinking about it for awhile, a question resurfaces that I asked myself back in 2003: why does Square Enix still retain the rights to the SMRPG characters? Treasure supposedly gave Nintendo Saki. Rare (yes, I'm aware it used to be second party) gave Nintendo Krystal, King K. Rool, and all the other Kongs besides DK. Capcom has let Nintendo have Vaati. Is this a case of kleptomania? As I've stated before, Geno is useless to Square Enix outside of the context of the first party Mario franchise, much like everyone else I've mentioned to their respective franchises, so I don't understand why they retained the rights.

I remember hearing about something that Nintendo didn't like concerning copyrights (I think it might've been Final Fantasy Adventure or maybe it was something after Rare left...I forget) so now they make sure it's very clear where the rights lie.

 

[Shadowbolt]

Geno's voice... Bear with me here, but I've always imagined Geno having the voice of Chase Young, from Xiaolin Showdown. I whole heartedly suggest you listen to his voice first, before passing judgement. - - - It has that deep, serious, sage-like tone to it, but it still sounds cartooney enough for the Marioverse.

And I know, voice actors hardly matter in a game primarily composed of grunts and screaming, but hey, Meta Knight already has a speaking role in one of his victory poses.

... Oh - and for some reason, I expect Geno to announce his moves, like Lucas and Captain Falcon do.

 

[Enigma14]

Geno's voice... Bear with me here, but I've always imagined Geno having the voice of Chase Young, from Xiaolin Showdown. I whole heartedly suggest you listen to his voice first, before passing judgement. - - - It has that deep, serious, sage-like tone to it, but it still sounds cartooney enough for the Marioverse.

And I know, voice actors hardly matter in a game primarily composed of grunts and screaming, but hey, Meta Knight already has a speaking role in one of his victory poses.

... Oh - and for some reason, I expect Geno to announce his moves, like Lucas and Captain Falcon do.

GENO BEAM!

Maybe hahahaha

I've heard his voice before but it doesn't seem to fit...IMO you could try though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Well...The only web archive I could find didn't have the old copyright image. (Ya, it's an image they keep reuploading as more characters are updated and more copyrights are required.)

Here's a link to an archive of August 9th before it updated.



He's doesn't sound angry in GTO.



It's because they were attached from the beginning.

DK Jungle Beat was made by Nintendo (the SMG team, actually) so I assume you mean Donkey Konga. What exactly is the copyright of each company depends on the game, really...Donkey Konga and Mario Party (at least the first one) do have copyrights for the third-parties. Sim City for the SNES has copyrights for both Nintendo and Maxis on it but Dr. Wright is apparently a Nintendo character according to Will Wright (at about 6:30:47) and, of course, Nintendo's ability to freely use him in SSBB. Golden Sun, which is developed by Camelot, has the copyrights divided rather interestingly as told by the ending. I couldn't find anything on Star Fox Assault but here's Adventure's back of the box which lists copyrights in the bottom corner.

Anyway, you see what I mean. We know from the e-mail on the first post as well as the end of M&L how things are for SMRPG stuff.

1. That page is before the Lucas and Franklin Badge updates though... I guess we can't actually prove what it once said now.

2. Wait... Camelot ISNT a second party to Nintendo? If it still is, does that mean, despite being owned by Nintendo, second parties are able to retain the rights exclusively to their own characters? Regarding Star Fox Adventure, that was developed by Rare and, when Rare left Nintendo, they gave Nintendo back all the rights to all the DK and Star Fox characters, including the ones they created like Krystal and Diddy Kong.

So, in conclusion, Geno's legal situation is weirder then a fat kid in a polar bear costume rolling down a hill after a truck tire covered in chocolate sauce. Great! I'm glad we've basically gotten back to the conclusion we all made almost two years ago.

Anyways, in all seriousness, because we can't ultimately prove that Saki became liscensed under Shigesato Itoi after his respective update, I'll drop that point because it isn't sound. Regardless, Shigesato Itoi being able to have his own characters under his own name must count for something in this situation. Granted, Square Enix still has the rights to SMRPG but don't Yoshihiko Maekawa and Chihiro Fujioka have a decent amount of say because they directed it? *Don't forget that one of them was responsible for getting Geno in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga without Square Enix being involved in the development process.* Kojima was the driving influence behind getting Konami to cooperate with Sakurai in order to use the various MGS properties and, based on past interviews, I wouldn't doubt it if Yugi Naka played some role in getting Sega involved with Brawl. I also imagine that if Megaman were to get into Brawl, Inafune would be the main driving force behind it for Capcom.

In the end, I think we come to a similar conclusion but by a different route. What I originally said is that particular people can have more importance then the third parties that own the rights to the characters. My statement now changes to say that particular people can have a strong influence on the forementioned third parties and aid in their cooperation.

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes Devastlian and helping me reach this more stable conclusion.

 

[Devastlian]

1. That page is before the Lucas and Franklin Badge updates though... I guess we can't actually prove what it once said now.

Ya, I was just showing that the archive didn't have the different copyright images they've had over the past few months; it's the fully updated one on the site now.

2. Wait... Camelot ISNT a second party to Nintendo? If it still is, does that mean, despite being owned by Nintendo, second parties are able to retain the rights exclusively to their own characters? Regarding Star Fox Adventure, that was developed by Rare and, when Rare left Nintendo, they gave Nintendo back all the rights to all the DK and Star Fox characters, including the ones they created like Krystal and Diddy Kong.

Ya, second parties are still separate companies so they still do retain some copyrights.

 

[Enigma14]

Ya, I was just showing that the archive didn't have the different copyright images they've had over the past few months; it's the fully updated one on the site now.



Ya, second parties are still separate companies so they still do retain copyrights.

Fire Emblem, MOTHER, Pokemon...etc.

 

[Devastlian]

Fire Emblem, MOTHER, Pokemon...etc.

Yeah, exactly.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59994

If that is true, it doesn't look good for Geno...

Or Luigi...

Or Ganondorf...

Or Ridley...

Or Claus...

 

[Oasis_S]

http://nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59994

If that is true, it doesn't look good for Geno...

Or Luigi...

Or Ganondorf...

Or Ridley...

Or Claus...

It's not.

 

[SiD]

Well, it's probably not real, but all those characters could be/probably will be unlockables.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, it's probably not real, but all those characters could be/probably will be unlockables.

Well, wouldn't they be next to the other characters from their series? It leaves no room for those characters except next to other characters from different series

 

[Mikel 2]

http://nsider2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=59994

If that is true, it doesn't look good for Geno...

Or Luigi...

Or Ganondorf...

Or Ridley...

Or Claus...

No!! I wanted all those characters!!
RIDLEY!!!
LUIGI!!!
GENO!!!!
I hope this ain't true...

 

[Oasis_S]

It's not.

He/she said so him/herself.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It's not.

He/she said so him/herself.

Well that's good...That was a really sucky roster thing

 

[Mikel 2]

It's not.

He/she said so him/herself.

SWEET!!
Well, I just don't want anybody deconfirmed for now.

 

[Neanderthal]

Either way that was just claimed to be the starting roster and if Geno makes it he would surely be an unlockable, so no threat to Geno

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Either way that was just claimed to be the starting roster and if Geno makes it he would surely be an unlockable, so no threat to Geno

The point was not the starting characters themselves, but where they were supposedly placed on the select screen. Geno would be next to the Mario characters, so would Luigi...Ganondorf would be by the Zelda characters, and Claus next to Lucas.

...and of course, Ridley being a boss they specifically stated

 

[Mikel 2]

The point was not the starting characters themselves, but where they were supposedly placed on the select screen. Geno would be next to the Mario characters, so would Luigi...Ganondorf would be by the Zelda characters, and Claus next to Lucas.

...and of course, Ridley being a boss they specifically stated

Hope Ridley ain't a boss, that'd be a waste....
And would Geno be next to the other 3rd party characters as well as mario??

 

[GhostAnime]

if the static boxes were random, why would they put more than one?

not that it matters anyway. the roster will truly be revealed around Dec. 15th.

 

[Mathieu21]

Here's what some guy said in my Geno poll on gamefaqs:

If you believe that Geno is the main character in SMRPG than you are lieing to yourself or just plain biased.
Aside from the title being Super Mario RPG, the plot still revolved around Mario, hence help Mallow find his parents, save Peach, help Bowser get his castle and minions back, and then help Geno rid the world of Smithy.
If the plot revolved around Geno, the game probably would have just taken you straight to Smithy.
All Geno did was reveal the threat and explain Star Road and wishes, etc...basically anything a filler character can do. Hell, in Chrono Trigger the guru's did that, and they weren't even playable characters. You Geno fans are lucky he was playable in SMRPG, or he may have never been seen again.


What do you guys think?

 

[wagnerelli]

The fact is that Geno started you on your whole quest. The main quest of the game, finding the star pieces, was not initiated until you met Geno. Everyone else's quests were side quests in the game, Geno's was the main one. Was he the main character? The game was called Super MARIO RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, what do you think? Geno was the second most important protagonist in the game though, and still had a significant role.

 

[verrader]

The fact is that Geno started you on your whole quest. The main quest of the game, finding the star pieces, was not initiated until you met Geno. Everyone else's quests were side quests in the game, Geno's was the main one. Was he the main character? The game was called Super MARIO RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, what do you think? Geno was the second most important protagonist in the game though, and still had a significant role.

Well.. you guys can make him still sound important by saying he was the main catalyst then.

 

[Enigma14]

Psycho think logically...

Luigi's spot in Melee was Pikachu's spot, for all u know they could move it around after they unlock that certain character for that franchise

and if its fake i bet its photoshopped...

 

[Pieman0920]

Geno didn't start the quest at all though. He got you involved in his business, which was linked to everyone else's in some way. Still, though his quest is done last, he still isn't the main character by any stretch. That's Mario, plain and simple. He's the one getting everything done, from the start until the end.

 

[Enigma14]

Here's what some guy said in my Geno poll on gamefaqs:

If you believe that Geno is the main character in SMRPG than you are lieing to yourself or just plain biased.
Aside from the title being Super Mario RPG, the plot still revolved around Mario, hence help Mallow find his parents, save Peach, help Bowser get his castle and minions back, and then help Geno rid the world of Smithy.
If the plot revolved around Geno, the game probably would have just taken you straight to Smithy.
All Geno did was reveal the threat and explain Star Road and wishes, etc...basically anything a filler character can do. Hell, in Chrono Trigger the guru's did that, and they weren't even playable characters. You Geno fans are lucky he was playable in SMRPG, or he may have never been seen again.


What do you guys think?

The fact is that Geno started you on your whole quest. The main quest of the game, finding the star pieces, was not initiated until you met Geno. Everyone else's quests were side quests in the game, Geno's was the main one. Was he the main character? The game was called Super MARIO RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, what do you think? Geno was the second most important protagonist in the game though, and still had a significant role.

Well.. you guys can make him still sound important by saying he was the main catalyst then.

Geno didn't start the quest at all though. He got you involved in his business, which was linked to everyone else's in some way. Still, though his quest is done last, he still isn't the main character by any stretch. That's Mario, plain and simple. He's the one getting everything done, from the start until the end.

Catalyst part I've been saying for a-while now. Only quest that Geno doesn't impact on much is Mallow's parents, but then they needed the royal bus to get to the final 2 stages. Actaully you joined Geno on his quest, he wasn't sent to find Mario, he just happened to by Mario saving him from the arrow.

 

[Pieman0920]

No, the catalyst is Mario. No one's getting any of their stuff done until he starts it up Everyone else is really about the same. They have a problem with whatever, and then Mario helps them solve it. Between the two points though, there isn't all to much for them. Heck, Mallow has more actual character development than Geno, since he has supporting characters that tie into him. The thing is Geno's problem got solved last, and that it. Once Mario got evevryone's mission done, the game ended. =/

 

[Enigma14]

No, the catalyst is Mario. No one's getting any of their stuff done until he starts it up Everyone else is really about the same. They have a problem with whatever, and then Mario helps them solve it. Between the two points though, there isn't all to much for them. Heck, Mallow has more actual character development than Geno, since he has supporting characters that tie into him. The thing is Geno's problem got solved last, and that it. Once Mario got evevryone's mission done, the game ended. =/

True but at some point all of them had an important role small or not.

 

[igloo9]

Actually, to the posts above, Geno technically really is the main character. First thing, I understand it doesn't get done unless Mario helps. But the only reason for this is because it's a Mario game. The main story is about Exor crashing into Bowser's keep, Smithy and his gang taking over, etc. And Geno is a main part of this, he's trying to fix it. Mario is too, but Geno is more because he's a star trying to repair the star road so he has a main part in it.

Well, wait, I just...never mind. I don't mean Geno is the main character. I meant both Geno AND Mario are the main characters because they are both on the same mission.

 

[Pieman0920]

Actually, to the posts above, Geno technically really is the main character. First thing, I understand it doesn't get done unless Mario helps. But the only reason for this is because it's a Mario game. The main story is about Exor crashing into Bowser's keep, Smithy and his gang taking over, etc. And Geno is a main part of this, he's trying to fix it. Mario is too, but Geno is more because he's a star.

No, not at all. The game didn't start with Geno. Geno wasn't there when you got the first star. Mario was there when that happened. Mario's mission didn't stop until he helped eveyone and saved the world. It began and ended with Mario. Just because Geno gave him insight to why he was doing what he was doing, doesn't mean Geno was the main character. Geno just had a connection to that plotline. Between when you get Geno into your party, and after you complete the game by solving his problem, what part in the story does he really play? Is it Mario who's constant throughout, or is it Geno?

 

[igloo9]

No, not at all. The game didn't start with Geno. Geno wasn't there when you got the first star. Mario was there when that happened. Mario's mission didn't stop until he helped eveyone and saved the world. It began and ended with Mario. Just because Geno gave him insight to why he was doing what he was doing, doesn't mean Geno was the main character. Geno just had a connection to that plotline. Between when you get Geno into your party, and after you complete the game by solving his problem, what part in the story does he really play? Is it Mario who's constant throughout, or is it Geno?

Well, I kind of edited my post, so read that.

Anyway, I understand it begins and ends with Mario, and Mario is constant throughout the game. It's because it's a Mario game. You control Mario. Geno has the same mission throughout the game, but you just don't meet him until later.

And I don't mean Geno is just the main character altogether, I just mean story-wise to the seven stars and the star road, him and Mario are technically both the main characters.

 

[Pieman0920]

No, they are not both the main characters. Geno is a supporting one. As said, he is not a constant through the game. What role does he have when you get to Land's End, or Booster's Tower? Mario has a role, because its his game. Geno only has a role when he's introduced, and then after the game is over. That's not a main character at all. Rosalina in SMG has a bigger role than that, and no one would consider her a main character. Heck, you could go through the whole game without using Geno, when you get Bowser.

 

[Enigma14]

Well, I kind of edited my post, so read that.

Anyway, I understand it begins and ends with Mario, and Mario is constant throughout the game. It's because it's a Mario game. You control Mario. Geno has the same mission throughout the game, but you just don't meet him until later.

And I don't mean Geno is just the main character altogether, I just mean story-wise to the seven stars and the star road, him and Mario are technically both the main characters.

Same could be said with Bowser since he needs to get his keep back. Peach was an option...that u had to take and Mallow could have just stopped in Nimbus Land

 

[igloo9]

Same could be said with Bowser since he needs to get his keep back. Peach was an option...that u had to take and Mallow could have just stopped in Nimbus Land

Not really. Bowser didn't want to repair the Star Road, he just wanted his keep back, so he went with Mario and the gang so he could fight the guy that took over his keep (Smithy.) Peach just went with Mario when they found each other. Mallow kept going after Nimbus land just so he could help out the gang.

But Mario and Geno's reason was to collect the seven stars and repair the Star Road.

 

[Enigma14]

Not really. Bowser didn't want to repair the Star Road, he just wanted his keep back, so he went with Mario and the gang so he could fight the guy that took over his keep (Smithy.) Peach just went with Mario when they found each other. Mallow kept going after Nimbus land just so he could help out the gang.

But Mario and Geno's reason was to collect the seven stars and repair the Star Road.

No only Geno's, Mario was convinced by the others to keep going, Had the others left it would have been Geno's alone.

 

[igloo9]

Then that's what I mean about Geno being an important character to the story.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No, they are not both the main characters. Geno is a supporting one. As said, he is not a constant through the game. What role does he have when you get to Land's End, or Booster's Tower? Mario has a role, because its his game. Geno only has a role when he's introduced, and then after the game is over. That's not a main character at all. Rosalina in SMG has a bigger role than that, and no one would consider her a main character. Heck, you could go through the whole game without using Geno, when you get Bowser.

Not that I care whether Geno was the main character or anything, because I think that's a BS excuse from someone that doesn't like the character and is merely picking at little **** answers to sound like they know what they are talking about...

But Geno really had more to do with the plot than Mario, so he is just as much a main character. Maybe not THE main character, but a main character.

 

[Pieman0920]

Not that I care whether Geno was the main character or anything, because I think that's a BS excuse from someone that doesn't like the character and is merely picking at little **** answers to sound like they know what they are talking about...

But Geno really had more to do with the plot than Mario, so he is just as much a main character. Maybe not THE main character, but a main character.

I told you, I don't dislike Geno. I just find that his chances are next to non-existant. And if you really think that I am wrong, then give me a reason to be wrong, instead of saying I am wrong, and not really backing it up. Tell me why Geno had more to do with the plot of the GAME and not just his own story line.

 

[GhostAnime]

you know, there's a reason why Geno's mission is finished near the END! ..

 

[Enigma14]

I told you, I don't dislike Geno. I just find that his chances are next to non-existant. And if you really think that I am wrong, then give me a reason to be wrong, instead of saying I am wrong, and not really backing it up. Tell me why Geno had more to do with the plot of the GAME and not just his own story line.

Geno's chances and disadvantages
Before this discussion carries on any longer, I want to clarify something: Geno does not have a 100% chance of being in this game and those that believe he does are just too swept up in the moment.

As the situation stands, he will either be playable or he won't show up at all. Why? Because he's technically third party and there'd be no point in just having him as an AT especially when 1. the Mario franchise already has two, 2. there has already been 18 ATs confirmed and 7 of the already confirmed represented franchises like Zelda and DK don't even have one yet, 3. how there are tons of smaller franchises that Nintendo hasn't yet tapped into yet.
Now, here's what Geno has going for him:
1. The 5 mentions in Sakurai's journal
2. SMRPG being the most requested VC game in both North America and Japan since it was basically first announced.
3. SMRPG's director now working for Nintendo as the founder of the second party, Alpha Dream. (The man who is presumed responsible for getting Geno into Mario and Luigi: Super Star Saga)
4. Pretty much a moveset given to the developers on a silver platter.
5. His appearance in both the 2001 Melee poll and the 2006 Brawl poll.
6. Nintendo offically classifying him as a Mario character rather then third party. (Geno only has appeared in Mario games)
7. Nintendo having the upper hand when it comes to Geno's legal situation and thus making him much easier to obtain then other third party characters.
8. Him being the only original Mario RPG character besides Fawful, Bow and Parakarry to appear in more then one game and play some sort of role.
9. Yoko Shimomura (the composer who did the music for both SMRPG and M&L:SS) being one of the composers for Brawl.
10. Nintendo and Square Enix being on good terms especially when you consider they've made two joint projects in the past year and there are a ton of SE games on the way for the DS and Wii.

Here's what Geno has going against him:
1. Square Enix still having the power to say no if Nintendo refuses whatever "rental agreement" SE might establish.
2. The chance that Nintendo/Sakurai won't even bother asking Square Enix in the first place.
3. His overall obscurity. (Which Sakurai likes)
That's basically the situation laid out in black and white. Granted, 2 doesn't seem likely since the situation is basically win-win for both companies (Nintendo gets to use a wanted character and SE makes some money for a character that's basically worthless to them) and 3 really isn't a factor considering how the likes of the Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch have come back from the "dead." Number one is the biggest concern and if Geno was completely first party, I'd probably bump his chances to 85%. The ultimateum of whether or not Square Enix will agree to the deal is what ultimately will decide if Geno makes it in or not. Granted, this is the situation with all third party characters but it should be noted despite Geno's legal situation being somewhat different.
So there you have it. I think with all this said, I think our reasons for supporting this character and beliefs that he has a decent chance are well founded and don't dive into sheer fanboyism like some people suggest.