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The Official Diddy Kong Tournament Stage Match-up Discussion

Pika_Cam

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
593
Location
Auburn, AL
1. Battlefield at least forces Diddy to use the platforms somewhat, which means he has to jump into the air instead of doing all his ground bananigans.
2. Maybe so, but most Diddys that I have faced there have enough trouble just surviving and don't have much time to do banana combos. Also, Pikachu has greater maneuverability on RC than Diddy by using QAC.
3. I never said thunderjolts were a damage racker, I actually even said they are a distraction. And for almost every way you could avoid a grounded tjolt, I could name an easy punishment.
4. Given that you have NOTHING else listed, it seems pretty ridiculous to assume that people will realize you haven't discussed the matchup yet. I did look at the date, hence me saying it needs to be revised or updated.
 

Coyn3Masta

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
355
Location
NJ
4. Given that you have NOTHING else listed, it seems pretty ridiculous to assume that people will realize you haven't discussed the matchup yet. I did look at the date, hence me saying it needs to be revised or updated.
lol maybe we should do pika next week <_>
 

fource

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,476
Location
KCMO
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LeThienWasMyHero
1. Battlefield at least forces Diddy to use the platforms somewhat, which means he has to jump into the air instead of doing all his ground bananigans.
2. Maybe so, but most Diddys that I have faced there have enough trouble just surviving and don't have much time to do banana combos. Also, Pikachu has greater maneuverability on RC than Diddy by using QAC.
3. I never said thunderjolts were a damage racker, I actually even said they are a distraction. And for almost every way you could avoid a grounded tjolt, I could name an easy punishment.
4. Given that you have NOTHING else listed, it seems pretty ridiculous to assume that people will realize you haven't discussed the matchup yet. I did look at the date, hence me saying it needs to be revised or updated.
Uhhh. Let's try to stay civilized...
I don't think P1 was trying to make you mad but it just seems like you're over reacting.
1) In all seriousness though, I really prefer BF over FD a lot of the time; not one sees ITs coming and it's just really makes the game more fun. It's kind of like when people counterpick me to Lylat without realizing it's my best level; you guys expect the stage turns to gimp Diddy's recovery when it doesn't at all.
2) I think RC is a stage of preference. I personally don't like it, but I don't mind it. I don't know how pikachu does there but I'll take your word that it's good. ^_^
3) Yeah...that attack is gay...period. :laugh:
4) We normally don't care what the other boards think, not to be rude but this is honestly how we feel. I personally like the idea of having a ratio chart but the majority of our board agrees that match-ups are constantly changing and we simply do not have the time to constantly update because doing re-discussions take a lot of time. So in actuality, it should not be revised because frankly, the ratio, 7:3, never meant anything to us.


For Stages, I think avoiding Halberd or low ceiling stages would be good because Pikachu's USmash is pretty wicked. At the same time though it's FSmash sucks too...
I honestly can't think of a stage that will totally destroy Pikachu's game. I would probably just take them to Lylat because it's such a good stage. :]

I'd say just stick to what we know and go neutrals all day.
 

Pika_Cam

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
593
Location
Auburn, AL
Uhhh. Let's try to stay civilized...
I don't think P1 was trying to make you mad but it just seems like you're over reacting.
1) In all seriousness though, I really prefer BF over FD a lot of the time; not one sees ITs coming and it's just really makes the game more fun. It's kind of like when people counterpick me to Lylat without realizing it's my best level; you guys expect the stage turns to gimp Diddy's recovery when it doesn't at all.
2) I think RC is a stage of preference. I personally don't like it, but I don't mind it. I don't know how pikachu does there but I'll take your word that it's good. ^_^
3) Yeah...that attack is gay...period. :laugh:
4) We normally don't care what the other boards think, not to be rude but this is honestly how we feel. I personally like the idea of having a ratio chart but the majority of our board agrees that match-ups are constantly changing and we simply do not have the time to constantly update because doing re-discussions take a lot of time. So in actuality, it should not be revised because frankly, the ratio, 7:3, never meant anything to us.


For Stages, I think avoiding Halberd or low ceiling stages would be good because Pikachu's USmash is pretty wicked. At the same time though it's FSmash sucks too...
I honestly can't think of a stage that will totally destroy Pikachu's game. I would probably just take them to Lylat because it's such a good stage. :]

I'd say just stick to what we know and go neutrals all day.
Yeah, well, I am an aggressive debater, but I'll tone it down.

I went back over all of the stages, as opposed to what was my first instinct earlier. Battlefield, imo, is still a good choice out of the neutrals for Pikachu to pick against Diddy. That's not to say that Diddy is necessarily bad there, but of the neutrals, it is IMO the best option. A lot of people will argue that Yoshi's Island is better, and I can understand why, but the platform in the middle can really screw Pikachu up if he's trying to approach. I'm sure there will be differing opinions on that. As for CPs, I feel comfortable with RC against Diddy, although it isn't his worst of the counterpick stages. Pokemon Stadium 2 comes to mind because of the air section. When the air lifts the characters up, Pikachu can just QAC back to the ground faster than most characters can fall. Also, the treadmill things could possibly give Diddy some banana trouble, but I've never actually seen a Diddy play this stage, so I can't be 100% sure. I hear people say to take Diddy to Delphino, but I don't exactly know why. I personally wouldn't want to take Diddy Kong to a walk-off stage, but other people may feel more confident there.

If you want to CP a Pikachu, I would have to agree with whoever said Luigi's Mansion. Tjolts are utterly useless there unless you destroy the house. Pikachu's thunder doesn't help much here because the house gets in the way. Also, Pikachu's KO moves usually kill earlier than Diddy's, but if Diddy can tech the stage, he takes away one of Pika's advantages.

You may not care if the other boards can see your ratios, but it may very well help newcomer Diddy players if they were updated. Not my character's boards though, so I personally don't really care that much. It doesn't affect me. It's just funny when I run into a Diddy Kong who thinks he's all that and a bag of chips because he has SUCH A GREAT MATCHUP against Pikachu. Honestly, he thinks there is no possible way he can lose because the Diddy boards told him so XD
 

The Truth!

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
991
For neutrals as a pika, I would go FD, BF, Smashville, then Yoshis. It would depend on how competent I feel using bananas. Pikachu is really good at avoiding bananas thanks to QA and fairly strong in using them, and FD definitely gives pika lots of space to help avoid them and use them while not allowing diddy the luxury of having platform if I want to send a nana his way. When stages get smaller and with fewer platforms it gets harder to avoid them, like smashville. If I think Im going to fail with bananas Id go BF, Smashville, FD, Yoshis (I just hate yoshis, what an awful stage). I also feel like FD gives pika a greater ability to take advantage of diddys poorish killing abilities, while not affecting pikas ability to kill/gimp too much, but im not entirely sure what blastzone sizes are.

As for whacky stages, I would probably CP RC then Norfair. RC to gimp easier, take advantage of pikas fast air game, and minimize nanners effectiveness in contrast to other stages. I dont really consider there to be any "bad" stages for pika, but I guess luigis could be considered one. Honestly for this matchup I think youre better off picking relatively stable flat stages like PS1 or pictochat then really weird levels.

It is kind of weird doing this without the matchup discussion having been done :/
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
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New Jersey
All you need vs pikachu is final destination and battlefield. Battlefield is the counterpick, and FD every other game XD

Pikachu may win this matchup on FD, but diddy annihilates him on battlefield. All other neutrals I think diddy wins on but I haven't had enough experience to play. Anther's favorite diddy fighting stage is FD.
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
1. Battlefield at least forces Diddy to use the platforms somewhat, which means he has to jump into the air instead of doing all his ground bananigans.
2. Maybe so, but most Diddys that I have faced there have enough trouble just surviving and don't have much time to do banana combos. Also, Pikachu has greater maneuverability on RC than Diddy by using QAC.
3. I never said thunderjolts were a damage racker, I actually even said they are a distraction. And for almost every way you could avoid a grounded tjolt, I could name an easy punishment.
4. Given that you have NOTHING else listed, it seems pretty ridiculous to assume that people will realize you haven't discussed the matchup yet. I did look at the date, hence me saying it needs to be revised or updated.
1. forces Diddy to use platforms? lol, that's a GOOD thing for Diddy.
2. I never said that Pika wasn't at the advantage on this stage, I just didn't find it ban worthy because Pika doesn't get that huge of an advantage off of it
3. A simple jab will beat the thunderjolt, with them canceling each other out Diddy will have no lag and will be able to do anything from that point.
4. uhhhh what? first off, your first sentence was really unclear. And we have a list of characters we have discussed and who we haven't, it's pretty simple, you look at the list, then you look for your character on said list, if your character isn't on the list then guess what? omg, it means we haven't discussed your character yet, wow that was hard wasn't it? The way your sentence was structured made it sound like the reason it needed to be revised or updated was because you disagreed with the matchup. Oh wait, actually your sentence DID imply that.
 

fource

Smash Lord
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LeThienWasMyHero
Why did this thread stop.
We should really keep this going.
 

PhatyCHONG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
160
Location
The Jungle
It hasn't stop, I would really like a sticky so something like this wouldn't happen
I've had my exams and I've been studing and haven't had enough time to do research and put in the next character summery.

also the "Diddy Kong Back Room" has been helping me so it should take too long.
This Wednesday is my last day of school so i'll have stuff back up to normal.

p.s. Stick. . . YEH or NEH, do you think this thread is important enough?
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
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Montreal, QC
Yeah, its a really good thread with good info. A sticky would be good... or putting it into the useful links sticky.
 

fource

Smash Lord
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LeThienWasMyHero
Definitely keep it.
I don't want to disturb your study habits because of a thread, so I think I can speak for the Diddy boards when I say we can wait until Wednesday before continuing this discussion.

Good luck on your exams. :]
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
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California
Note: This tread is to based upon Traditional Tournament Maps / Neutral Stages.
By this, do you mean that you're not switching stages around? For example, Corneria is now banned. Norfair is now Counter-Pick/Banned, though it used to be Counter-Pick. Or do you mean something else?
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
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Aug 27, 2008
Messages
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France
I used this yesterday to make a personal memo sheet
so yeah, this is useful :p

sticky 8D
 

PhatyCHONG

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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By this, do you mean that you're not switching stages around? For example, Corneria is now banned. Norfair is now Counter-Pick/Banned, though it used to be Counter-Pick. Or do you mean something else?
Well yes there is a "Standard" for which is recommended for tournament organizers to follow however we can't expect them to always followed them and sometimes bend them to some extent considering a place for example like Corneria which is basically only banned due to small blastzone, Corneria is still a popular map and has been through all series so map such as Corneria, Jungle Japes so I'll put them on the list

I made the statement broad so I wouldn't get flammed about people saying certain maps are BANNED or NOT BANNED rather than having a link or quote from BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE [rule thread]. Basically I was just trying to avoid someone saying for example: ROB is terrible at Distant Planet. Which really has no real relivence to tournaments ect.
 

Crystanium

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Messages
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Well yes there is a "Standard" for which is recommended for tournament organizers to follow however we can't expect them to always followed them and sometimes bend them to some extent considering a place for example like Corneria which is basically only banned due to small blastzone, Corneria is still a popular map and has been through all series so map such as Corneria, Jungle Japes so I'll put them on the list

I made the statement broad so I wouldn't get flammed about people saying certain maps are BANNED or NOT BANNED rather than having a link or quote from BOOK OF KNOWLEDGE [rule thread]. Basically I was just trying to avoid someone saying for example: ROB is terrible at Distant Planet. Which really has no real relivence to tournaments ect.
Well, I don't know about Corneria being banned, due to a smaller blast zone. I believe it has to do with King Dedede's chain-grabbing against the wall, as well as Ness and Lucas being able to go off the front and absorb the lasers, or even the lasers from the flying ships. So, Corneria is banned, but the TO can still allow it to be used, even though the SBR says it's unacceptable?
 

Bellioes

Smash Lord
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Montreal, QC
Yeah a couple TOs that I know change the rules a bit cause of public demand/their opinion (less common). I know of several tournies where Norfair was banned while it was on the CP list.
 

PhatyCHONG

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
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The Jungle
Stage Discussion is BACK and with a new format!
*In support of the Diddy Kong Boards Clean Up

Ice Climbers vs. Diddy Kong - Stage Discussion
Counter/Bans?

6/17/09 GO!
 

TreK

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Stages with slopes do not stop cgs like i used to think, but make them harder (according to an IC); that's why i like stages like Lylat (for starters), or Brinstar. I thought at first that orpheon could be a good cp, but they can camp you to hell on the 2nd form, and aren't that affected by the first.
Which brings me on my second point, stages that counter camping. IC's one is pretty safe ; that's why instead of trying to counter it, I try to make it pointless by picking stages such as Castle Siege (2nd form is amazing, but the third and the transitions can backfire. The first is even imo.), Norfair (lava forces them to move and can stop CGs, plus the platforms act as protecting ceiling if you're under them), or Rainbow Cruise (this one is ICs mains's most common ban, tho.)

Camping and CGs being the only threats ICs can pose (gimping can be quite problematic too, but it's not like it's really stage dependant), flat out neutrals like FD or PS1 or stages that reward camping like JJ are legit bans imo.

My 2cents.
 

Dev2000

Smash Lord
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Dec 14, 2008
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The Netherlands
Diddy has advantages on us and we have advantages on Diddy MY OPINION says it really matters who plays the character in order to win in this matchup (i play both :p)
we have more to our game then CGing Teneban don't forget Desynching and some juggle games that could show up as a threat for diddy but CGing is still our biggest strenght like your nanergame probably is

I would ban Final destination or smashville if possible Both cause we are really good on those stages but so is diddy so that doesnt matter actually
maybe you should ban those stages just to be sure
i would say CP Rainbow cruise or Norfair but that ****s up Diddy's naner game and so does it screw our grab game
i should CP Lylat just like Tene said. or some other stages with Gaps and stuff like that wich will have a big chance to screw up the Grab game (for a bit)
or just get a huge platform based stage
but rainbow cruise and norfair are still our weakness

NOW it's your turn to prove me wrong about everything or agree with me
I'm really unsure on this matchup tho but like i said thats just me probably
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
CPs:
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate
Brinstar
Lylat
Yoshi's Isand
Castle Siege
Norfair
PS1
Jungle Japes

Bans:
Luigi's Mansion
Halberd
Delfino

I'll put up my reasoning later, too tired right now, but the reason I put so many CPs is because Diddy doesn't get a huge advantage over ICs on any of the stages except for RC and Norfair. There are only little tiny advantages you get from the stages, for example Yoshi's Island, it's easier to SDI and wall tech any CG > Spike they pull on you.

I also want to say that depending on the IC's playstyle and how well they can handle bananas etc. that FD or BF would be clear CPs. Every single ICs I have personally played has always either played better on FD/BF and then worse on the other one, but that doesn't mean they don't play good on the other one, it just means that they play better on the first stage.
 

Mackorony101

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
69
I would lean more towards stages that arent as flat and may have some mess ups for the IC's chain grabs and maybe ice block spam. Brinstar or rainbow cruise would definitely hurt both of those options but you dont want to hurt diddy's banana game either (even though ICs are a pain to get down with nanners). A good playstlye for RC would be to try to force ICs to jump to an uncomfortable spot by banana placement and punish their attempts to get you out of the way.
Smashville would be good because there is a platform to camp and avoid CGs. ICs could also camp on the platform but you could then retaliate with putting nannaers on the platform so they would try not to jump on it (although they could always grab the nanners when they jump). Final Destination may not be in your favor as much as it is for ICs since there is nothing to interrupt CGs. Also remember not to have too many platforms to disrupt your nanners.
Gimping recoveries helps alot and a stage like frigate orpheon does great with that.
My suggestions would be...

CP:
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Yoshi's island
Frigate Orpheon

Ban:
Japes
Final destination [hard to decide]
weegees
Halberd
 

Prawn

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,031
Do NOT bring top level ICs to Rainbow Cruise unless you're Metaknight. There are SO many tricks they'll pull out on you.
 

GooseMainsDiddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
731
Do NOT bring top level ICs to Rainbow Cruise unless you're Metaknight. There are SO many tricks they'll pull out on you.
Elaborate...my friend just got a Smashboards and he already knows how to wobble so I don't want him to learn anything I don't know.
 

PhatyCHONG

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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The Jungle
Elaborate...my friend just got a Smashboards and he already knows how to wobble so I don't want him to learn anything I don't know.
IDK Ice Climbers on Rainbow Cruise seem it would just plain be in Diddy's advantage. One of the key factors in fighting Ice Climbers is to take out Nana due to Nana being gone
1. Popo loses alot of power
2. No chaingrabbing [except Ice climbers "down throw" at low percentages]

Transformation 1 - Diddys tend to become more comfortable with the ship than any other transformation. The ships dip helps with diddys Dtilt and helps him stay in control of banana play.

I would have to say Diddys Advantage, but I don't have an oposeing arguement

Transformation 2 - Diddys already can find it easy to split the climbers [Bananas, GT to grab] and since transformation 2 is constantly moving it will deeply hurt nana from reaching "her MAN" [popo] and will find it easy for you to gimp ice climbers either [popo or nana]

Definatly would say Diddys Advantage, I don't think anyone will disagree, but hey prove me wrong.

Transformation 3 - Eh, due to low ceiling I would say it is in Ice Climbers advantage due to Ice Climbers Usmash against Diddys poor killing Usmash. I don't see walk off chaingrabs a problem?

Ice Climbers Advantage

_______________________________​



What tricks are you talking about please do tell?

What does everyone think about Rainboaw Cruise Diddy Advantage or Ice Cimbers
 

DFEAR

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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:190:
my crew member that plays ice climbers usually chooses wolf on rainbow cruise. but he did pull out some crazy stuff on rc as icies of course stuff like fgrab to fgrab to spikes mostly which grew tremendously annoying. and on 2nd transformation grabs such as bgrab to bgrab just pissed me off. just always have a banana in hand and one near u 100% of the time...just be cautious on rainbow cruise, i would say its even for both of them if they know what theyre doing and how to execute what they want to pull off. just remember to upsmash/fair/grab all day against these guys =D.

edit:
also i want to put that final d is a good stage against ice climbers its in our favor for sure. but in a certain style, never approach and u win, simple as that and when u do approach make sure its either to kill or separate, nothing else.

edit2:
cp's against ic would clearly be brinstar/norfair just cuz of lava and platform abuse but going there would obviously force them to counterpick a 2ndary against u :\ so prepare for it. i dont know a single ice climber that doesnt have a secondary >_<
 

Mackorony101

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
69
Ice climbers, in my opinion, would most likely have trouble on rainbow cruise.
diddy has a liitle bit of an advantage on the ship part. He is able to use his nanners so as to not get too close to the ICs to prevent grabbing. Diddy has a very big advantage on the second part which could be an easy stock or just removal of nana. If you take advantageof the second transformation there is a good chance you will not have to worry too much about the third. If you are a stock ahead you could justdrop some nanners along the path and popgun camp to avoid any of ICs tricks and odds are you will be back on the ship while pretty far ahead. I believe that diddy has a pretty good advantage vs ICs on this stage
 

DUB

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
1,514
Location
Wilmington, NC
I like the generic long flat stages for this matchup. FD is two recommended stage. Large amount of space lets you regroup before you have to deal with avoiding a grab again. Shorter stages like BF can get you jammed up and grabbed so the room to flee is good to have. I never liked platforms when I played against the IC's. Their U-Air is godly, don't get caught above them. If your experienced with Norfair/RC they are sure to help you out.

Do's
Final D
Smashville
Frigate

Don't
BF
Japes
Mansion
 

Player-1

Smash Legend
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
12,186
Location
Rainbow Cruise
I like the generic long flat stages for this matchup. FD is two recommended stage. Large amount of space lets you regroup before you have to deal with avoiding a grab again. Shorter stages like BF can get you jammed up and grabbed so the room to flee is good to have. I never liked platforms when I played against the IC's. Their U-Air is godly, don't get caught above them. If your experienced with Norfair/RC they are sure to help you out.

Do's
Final D
Smashville
Frigate

Don't
BF
Japes
Mansion
Japes would be a VERY good stage against IC IMO, it'll hurt their tether recovery and it can hurt their side-b recovery as well, and it has high ceilings which is good, it's also good for desynching them. Battlefield is also a good stage against them depending on how you play it, against good ICs I'd rather play BF than FD
 

iDeo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
445
Location
WAKA LAKA LAND!
More about Diddy vs. Snake on Rainbow Cruise.

I got some experience about this stage today. I suspect this post may be quite lengthy, so yeah.

Counterpicking Rainbow Cruise on Snake has great rewards but is pretty risky, because while you have ease with some things, Snake also has ease with some things (re: killing). If you just counterpick this blindly, you may be surprised of some of the things that happen to you. But with some basic knowledge, the match should be pretty much easier for Diddy.

Rainbow Cruise is already a good idea for a counterpick on a campy Snake. Because of the moving level, his camping game is completely gone. And for these same reasons, he has much less time to rely on Claymores and C4s. However, against a regular Snake, this could be a pretty valid option as a CP too.

Good things:

1) Snake becomes a bit more predictable/readable on this stage. Why? Well, because you've eliminated a lot of his options. It's easier to expect an ftilt, standard combo, or nair here, because he can't mix it up with his explosives.

2) Cypher. As you already know, there's a large chunk of time where you both have to constantly move up. Your standard jumps have decent height. His don't. Expect him to have to use his cypher a lot more, which is good for you.

A lot of Snakes like to do the same thing for the majority of the time they cut their cypher early. Some Snakes, like one of the people I was fighting on Wi-Fi right before I made this post, like to airdodge to cut their cypher. Some Snakes like to C4. Some Snakes like to nair or do a different aerial. If you can read what your opponent is going to do (and you have at least an entire game to do that) then this is a great CP. If they airdodge much, you can wait after the airdodge and do an aerial. If they like to do an aerial, you can either sheildgrab, or if they're in the air, wait after the expected aerial (a Snake is most likely not going to uair when you're below them) and do an aerial.

Here's a situation: you see a Snake use their cypher, so you jump up to the platform they're trying to get to. If you're not exactly sure what they're going to do, sheild. If they do nothing, you can grab and grab release them forcing them to either (depending on location) die or C4 themselves up and do damage to themselves. If they airdodge onto the platform so you can't grab them straight from the air, you can wait and grab, dtilt and grab, or do a dsmash or fsmash if they're at a high percent. If they do an aerial, you can sheild grab. Win situations.

The more predictable, the better. The more they cypher, the better.

Bad things:

1) The ship has small side blast zones. Be pretty wary of recovering from the ship, because you could meet a bair or ftilt to the face. This is, however, also a plus for you, because Diddy kills horizontally, and if you read cyphers you can get off a fair and kill them. But because this can go either way, you have to be wary of this.

2) The 35-40 or so seconds of the two minute cycle that you're on the top. This sucks. Get too close, and you either get utilted and die, ftilted and possibly die, or thrown and possibly die. The ceiling is really low up top, and because the level moves, you can be thrown or ftilted to the left and die pretty easily. While Snake can't camp as well at the top because it moves, he still has his explosives as a pretty viable option.

Seems pretty bad for Diddy, right? Only real boost up here is that your bananas can be used more. Up here, being aggressive isn't the best idea, especially if you're at high percents. Even percents of like 50-60 can get you killed. You could be a little more offensive if you're at lower percents, but just be aware of the dangers.

Spacing is also pretty crucial. In the matches against Snakes on RC that I've fought, I've tried to space myself so that his tilts and standard combo can't reach well while I can throw bananas and get off the occasional peanut. Being just out of range also lets me get off a grab if he tries to pull out a grenade. However, I'd imagine you'd still have to worry about a dash attack or DACUS. The snakes I fought did neither, so I'm not exactly sure what to do if that happens....sheild it?

You could try staying completely out of DACUS range, essentially just running and shooting the occasional peanut. But this is pretty defensive, doesn't let you get off much hits, you still kind of have to worry about grenades and you can't punish them, etc. You could do this, but I wouldn't encourage it; if the Snake is already predictable/campy enough for you to CP RC and abuse his cyphers and other things, then you should be able to read him enough to be at a decent range.

tl;dr: If the Snake you're fighting is campy, counterpick here. If the Snake you're fighting is predictable, counterpick here. However, if the Snake you're fighting has a very strong game without explosives, or he's erratic enough that you can't always read him while edgeguarding, while close, while he cyphers, etc., you'd be better off counterpicking a safer stage like Smashville, Castle Siege, or Delfino's Plaza. You have an entire game, at the very least, to decide what stage you should counterpick.

...if you've read all of that, thank you. I'm still going to get more Snake stage matchup experience on this stage and Delfino Plaza. I love fighting Snakes, so I don't mind, lulz. But I can't wait until this discussion gets to Falco...I hate him so much, my worst matchup, much moreso than Weegee.

Man seeing as I finally decided to actually stick w/ Smashboards I have to play serious catch-up on all the replies and topics, lol. But yep I read the whole dang article.

Now that I think about it, you can punish Snake's recovery a lot here and the constant stage changes help in achieving that spike or so. However the constant changing still leaves Diddy to continuously move around and not be set for countering his recovery.

I must also add that CPing RC against Snake will leave Diddy in a bit a jam with his recovery when Diddy is on the defensive. Basically Diddy's main focus of attack is at the top of the stage with the lengthy flat area and somewhat of a cautious approach you land back on the ship.

But nonetheless there is still more to exploit on RC.

Now, I've only played 1 decent IC player and must say they annoy me w/ the chain grabs (as it does annoy every1 who plays against them). As you said P1, Japes makes it easy to to kill Nana and ruins their recovery. But Japes is a double edge.

The only recovery useful here for the monkey is his horizontal, but that can be gimped with an ice block. Next ICs can just CG to spike or just CG you in a single spot until they're ready to finish it off.

Japes is good, but not enough in my opinion to have the advantage necessary to take em' out.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
CPs:
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate
Brinstar
Lylat
Yoshi's Isand
Castle Siege
Norfair
PS1
Jungle Japes

Bans:
Luigi's Mansion
Halberd
Delfino

I'll put up my reasoning later, too tired right now, but the reason I put so many CPs is because Diddy doesn't get a huge advantage over ICs on any of the stages except for RC and Norfair. There are only little tiny advantages you get from the stages, for example Yoshi's Island, it's easier to SDI and wall tech any CG > Spike they pull on you.

I also want to say that depending on the IC's playstyle and how well they can handle bananas etc. that FD or BF would be clear CPs. Every single ICs I have personally played has always either played better on FD/BF and then worse on the other one, but that doesn't mean they don't play good on the other one, it just means that they play better on the first stage.


I have no idea why you would ban Delfino. That stage makes killing nana easier than you could possibly imagine (she likes swimming, and plays like a newb to Smash as she doesn't know what DI is :D)
 
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