The Official Diddy Kong Tournament Stage Match-up Discussion

[PhatyCHONG]

Marth Discussion Starts NOW! 4/3/09

 

[Player-1]

Counter Picks:
FD
SV
Jungle Japes
Castle Siege

Bans:
Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Delfino
PS1 if you want to go this far


Japes hurts Marths recovery greatly, plus high ceilings so you can DI up on the Fsmashes and live a little longer, and his Usmash isn't as effective. The 2 smaller platforms hurt Marth when he is on them, he has a slow Dsmash, and none of his other moves get a hitbox both behind and in front of him during one animation except his slow Utilt.

Castle Siege is spacious for the most part which is nice, staying on the upper level of the first transformation would be best IMO, this would be Marth's best transformation.

2nd Transformation, possibility of banana lock, banana lock works better on Marth because he has a bad get up attack and a pretty average length trip animation. Marth could camp outside/inside the statues if he needs, but you can wait for the next transformation. Although, the platforms have NEVER gotten in the way of my banana play when I play there, maybe that's just me though. This part also has high ceilings.

3rd Transformation, the tilting of the stage can help Marth's air game, but it'll hurt his recovery a lot as well. Flat and spacious, this will be your best part.

The 'In between' transformation, flat and spacious again. The best part of this against Marth I see is that if you get him to one of the sides and bait his Up-B out by banana locking him or using your neutral A rapid attack then it might screw him over once the stage reappears if it's 1st or 3rd transformation

 

[white peachy]

I hate this friggin matchup.

Japes sounds pretty good from that reasoning. I'm wondering what people would think of RC here...just throwing stuff out there, because against really good marths, I'm clueless.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

I hate this friggin matchup.

Japes sounds pretty good from that reasoning. I'm wondering what people would think of RC here...just throwing stuff out there, because against really good marths, I'm clueless.

RC seems like a good CP considering Marth's recovery isn't up to par, also gives you more options for spacing and approaching w/ marth not have projectiles

Also what about banning Luigi Mansion, marth seems like he would do well on the map

 

[Player-1]

RC seems like a good CP considering Marth's recovery isn't up to par, also gives you more options for spacing and approaching w/ marth not have projectiles

Also what about banning Luigi Mansion, marth seems like he would do well on the map

Don't know why except for the pillars, him being able to reach over there without extending his hitbox is pretty good, but Diddy has more advantages on this CP I see.

I don't know how Marth does on RC, Marth's tend to CP me there a lot so nI'd assume most Marths like it. Dtilt against the wall is good for him, and the gimping part of the stage is pretty much only 1/3 of the stage itself, the other 2/3s marth seems to do fairly well on

 

[chimpact]

Back to the DDD matchup and CP'g Brinstar. Im a little bit iffy with brinstar. even though diddy kills DDD earlier which is always a good thing. It's hard to get Glidetoss to Smash combos because of how weird the level is. And DDD can kill with uptilt and bair and fair (you shouldn't get hit by this unless you get swallowed or fthrowed) much easier. With fthrow doing 12%, bthrow doing 16%, and each pummel does like 3%. With a few grabs you can get in KO percentage in brinstar. DDD might not get a CG in, but if hes up a stock he could go for it to refresh his moves.

I would not CP brinstar against DDD. Imo there are better options.

Pictochat needs to get unbanned!

 

[white peachy]

I agree, I wouldn't cp Brinstar personally. People make way too much of DDD's cg on diddy sometimes. If I'm CPing a DDD I'm going FD or SV still. Easier to play the camp game than platformed stages and I don't have to worry about walls or CG's right off the stage.(Delfino and CS)

I kinda just threw RC out there. I've never played a Marth there, it was more of a shot in the dark than anything I've only played one really good marth (you'll know them when you find one), and most of the time we play on neutrals. The only way I can see Diddy going closer to even with Marth is FD and if the Marth is smart, he will almost surely ban it. (I seem to do alright on Yoshi's Story too, but that seems like more of an anomally than anything...) We need some kind of creative cp's here because he's too strong on all the other neutrals. Or we could just be resigned to the fact that this is not a great matchup for diddy.

I also wouldn't really bother using a ban on the Mansion. For me...I ban BF because Marth ***** that stage in melee...and he ***** it in brawl.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I would not counterpick Marth on RC. His offstage game is good enough, so for that first ship part it's probably even easier for him to get a kill on you. If he's just paying attention to the level, he won't get gimped by the second third of the level, and the top third doesn't really provide benefits for either of you...

I'd stick with FD, SV, and CS for counterpicks (Player1 already said why CS was a good CP stage). Unless the people I'm fighting have wall-infinites or CGs, Castle Siege and Pokemon Stadium 1 are my two favourite counterpick stages.

 

[Player-1]

@D3 on Brinstar. Haven't played one here yet, I just know it's a bad stage for D3. You can camp easily on Brinstar. What I do sometimes is throw a banana onto those things that break the stage apart, then I go behind the left thing that breaks and sends the platform up. You can shoot peanuts from this location without them hitting it AND you can't get hit by projectiles either, then the banana bouncing makes it even harder for them to get past to be able to attack you with a non-projectile attack.

D3's CG get beat here, never CP FD against D3 IMO, I always CP Battlefield. Most D3s CG you all around the stage on FD, but the platforms really help especially because a lot of people don't know or don't remember that on move s that extend the hurtbox above the platform, a banana on the platform still makes them slip, which also include D3's CG. Plus it's REALLY easy to combo D3 at lower %s on BF.

Back to Marth?

 

[PhatyCHONG]

I agree, I wouldn't cp Brinstar personally. People make way too much of DDD's cg on diddy sometimes. If I'm CPing a DDD I'm going FD or SV still. Easier to play the camp game than platformed stages and I don't have to worry about walls or CG's right off the stage.(Delfino and CS)

KING DeeDeeDee

When it comes down to stage stricking and counter picking in a tournament for example: let say you lose a match and it's currently your turn to counterpick. Your opponent still has a chance to ban a stage before your counterpicking. Anyone who hasn't been under a rock knows diddy strongest stages are stages w/ as little interference or a neutral stage such as SV or FD [that is why just about every character stage discussion will probably have atleast one of them in the CP list]. Your chances in the first place are slim to CP SV or FD, however this is a good thing w/that being said there are MUCH better CP for D3.

I recently went to a tournament and played one of the most annoying matches I have ever played. On Final Destination I played a D3, and w/ his CGs [alot of them], edgeguarding, and WaddleDEEs it was so aggravating. FD's long horizontal ground amplifies WaddleDEEs and CG's thats why this matchup is so EVEN. CGs are the basis of winning for a D3 they can win on grabbing alone. Thats why stage choices need to be as wise as possible. On FD D3 lives to0 long and can CG long distances and that is what you need to avoide the most. For Counter picking places like Jungles Japes where you out camp D3 w/ Peanut Camping, Banana spacing, high ceiling, D3 can be gimped on this stage!, and CGs are set to a minimum. This is much of a better option than SV or FD [Even though SV IMO is a better choice than FD on this matchup].

Brinstar HURTS D3's CG where thats one of D3's strongest advantages. Also D3's can edgeguard like a MOFO and being gimped is quite possible however the stage has a high possiblitlity of saving you from early deaths by the lava. Peanut Gun is your best friend on your Map from the platform, D3's size, hurts alot of his approaching options with the tilted ground stage. Yes you can't Glidetoss to Smash, but you can still do it on the platform. What about Battlefield
- Being "Chained Grabbed" by DDD is one of the most annoying parts of the game and Battlefields small stage allows being CG'd at a minimum.
- Peanut Gun is really effective on this map with the small stage, D3's large body, and even platforms all help you as DDD is easy to hit.
- Platforms hurts his Waddle Dee action
- Battlefield stage setup allow Diddy to have his best mindgame potential
- Combo set up is easy for diddy especially with the platforms
- You can avoid multiple chain grabs being on the platforms
- Many options for approaching
Do I need to say more?!?!

IMO I would rather CP Brinstar than FD anyday, I would also have to see how much he CG's to even think about CP SV rather than Brinstar. Overall IMO and Jungle Japes and Battlefield would be my first 2 options for CP and if they were Banned I would do brinstar. Don't get my wrong SV and FD are good Diddy stages but, it is just too risky for D3.

Quote NOTE: Well put, I agree

D3's CG get beat here, never CP FD against D3 IMO, I always CP Battlefield. Most D3s CG you all around the stage on FD, but the platforms really help especially because a lot of people don't know or don't remember that on move s that extend the hurtbox above the platform, a banana on the platform still makes them slip, which also include D3's CG. Plus it's REALLY easy to combo D3 at lower %s on BF.

Thank you for the questioning to have better matchups on D3, but we must go on w/ the current discussion, MARTH, before revisiting. Also message me if you want to revisit so we can have a primary discussion rather than a reply popup.

 

[Tatty_bonga]

Game & Watch FT-MFing-Win!

 

[Pr0phetic]

Bans againt Marth: BF, Lylat Cruise
CP: FD, Rainbow Cruise

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Bans againt Marth: BF, Lylat Cruise
CP: FD, Rainbow Cruise

I don't know how Marth does on RC, Marth's tend to CP me there a lot so nI'd assume most Marths like it. Dtilt against the wall is good for him, and the gimping part of the stage is pretty much only 1/3 of the stage itself, the other 2/3s marth seems to do fairly well on

Maby they just CP RC because they believe it will really hender your bananas game when in fact RC is indeed a good stage to CP against certain character. Myself and as well Rukki believe RC would be a good CP. I believe it will help you space yourself, you own on the ship, and much of the moving of the stage and you have projectiles, marth doesn't you can USE THAT. Any objections or reason RC would be a bad stage or not CP worthy.

 

[Player-1]

Maby they just CP RC because they believe it will really hender your bananas game when in fact RC is indeed a good stage to CP against certain character. Myself and as well Rukki believe RC would be a good CP. I believe it will help you space yourself, you own on the ship, and much of the moving of the stage and you have projectiles, marth doesn't you can USE THAT. Any objections or reason RC would be a bad stage or not CP worthy.

Well I don't think it should be a CP, there's not a clear advantage for one side, I think that both characters get just as much as a buff/nerf on this stage as the other.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I honestly don't think RC is very CP worthy at all. Why do you say that RC is bad for Marth, other than he has a bad recovery which honestly isn't that true. "More spacing options" is incredibly vague.

(side note: when I use the term zone in this description, I basically mean spacing areas. There's the neutral zone where no one's at a clear disadvantage before anything happens, the bad zone, and the good zone, both self-explanatory. example, if I'm against a Snake, too far away is a bad zone (you can get camped and Snake has more options approaching than you do), while too close is also a bad zone at high percents [loltilts])

First third of the stage: The Ship

-For the Marth, avoiding your bananas is even easier (although Marth's have an excellent time killing your banana control regardless). The elevated platform at the right and the two small platforms in the middle (if I'm remembering correctly, because sometimes I confuse RCs ship with Pirate Ship) both help him stay away from banana combos
-You have to be much more careful, because you have more bad zones against Marth than he does against you here. The Marth is pretty much safe anywhere unless his back is against the wall, while your bad zones are off the edges and against the wall
-Speaking of against the wall, if you are in this position, Marth's dtilt says hi. And it's not fun being locked like that
-And speaking of off the edges, Marth gimps you easily. The plus about this stage is that you'll rarely have to use rocket-barrel, so you can't get gimped that way. But if you do...yeah. Either way, offstage against Marth is never fun.

Strategic Notes:
-Stay away from the edges of the ship and being trapped against the wall. Fortunately, you can get a banana combo against the wall too, but it's harder to time.
-To be safe, put bananas around the main area of the ship. Remember to keep control over them though, because if the Marth gets them, he can easily push you into a bad zone.
-Small side blast zones help Marth along with you. Watch out for kills, although keep the idea in your mind that you can kill early if you push him towards the edge.

Second third of the stage: Moving Up

-Marth's vertical recovery is better than you think. While Snake is heavy, has bad aerial DI, a poor second jump height, and easier avoidable aerials on a moving stage...Marth has none of this. His jump height is pretty good, and he can use the first attack of his dancing blade for even more height. That combined with Dolphin Smash, which he probably won't have to use (I rarely use rocket barrels here and I'm pretty sure Marth's double jump plus dancing blade boost is better than Diddy's double jump), means that his vertical recovery CAN NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED.
-However, if he does have to use Dancing Blade for whatever reason if you keep him off with peanuts, bairs, Special K edgehog (lulz) or whatever, then you're probably in luck. Lack of ledges on the stage is good for you and bad for him
-His aerials are pretty strong and pretty scary. Diddy can kill with a spaced fair and spike with a Dair, but Marth can basically do the same with Fair, Nair, and Dair. Because of his floatiness and good jump height, he can use aerials and move well at the same time, so be careful.
-If you do get pushed off the side to the point where you have to use your Rocket Barrels, then Marth can gimp you. However, since he doesn't have a ledge to hang on, it's probably harder...but still isn't fun.

Strategic Notes
-Diddy can't really kill here. Marth can. You're going to probably be playing more evasively, sneaking in that aerial or grab or whatever whenever you can, but going on offensive is not a good idea. Marth has an easier time killing and getting in hits to put you in bad zones in which you could be potentially gimped, so you want to play defensively.
-Definitely avoid getting grabbed on the left side. I think Marth has a grab release-tipper Fsmash combo, or a dthrow-tipper fsmash combo at low percents, so yeah, that's never fun.
-If you get the chance, try to get him gimped. Throw him off the right side, and aerial/peanuts/throw bananas like no one's business.

Third third of the stage: The Top

-Low ceiling isn't fun, especially when Marth can kill off the top with Usmash.
-Other than this, it's basically a moving walk-off FD, lol. I'm sure I could give more insight but what I usually do here against everyone is trying to abuse the side blast-zones (usually the left) to sneak in a kill.

Strategic Notes:
-This part isn't that great too, because Marth can kill basically everywhere. You get no benefit from the low ceiling. Be more wary of smashes to kill you.
-Like with any match-up, try abusing the left blast-zone for a kill. But don't let this turn on you, because tides can turn and you can be the one dying.
-It's not fun when Marth has your bananas here. Control your bananas.
-Other general Marth match-up notes.

Sorry I got lazy at the end there, but I honestly didn't know what else to say. As you can see, in my opinion at least, you shouldn't CP RC. I think that Marth has better stages than here to CP, but in case he does, just watch out for those things. As long as you don't underestimate Marth's aerial game in the second third and watch out for kills, you can win. It just takes a loooot of good spacing, lol.

Also, this wasn't actually a quote from somewhere else, I just used the quote feature to seperate that from the rest of the text.

Anyway, other than the usual Final Destination and Smashville counterpicks (IMO in this match-up, you'd probably want to pick FD over SV), another good CP is Castle Siege. Castle Siege and Poke Stadium 1 are my two favourite counterpicks and I think they're really good Diddy stages unless your opponent has a CG or wall infinite.

Brief overview of Castle Siege though: First and third transformations can mess up their recovery, and there's always the slip gimp between the transformations of 2->3 and 3->1. The second transformation has a high ceiling so you should be able to live much longer with good DI, but that's dependent on where you get smashes (obviously if you get tipper fsmashed at 60% off the screen, you aren't living). I can provide more later, hopefully.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Counter Picks:
FD
SV
Jungle Japes
Castle Siege

Bans:
Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Delfino
PS1 if you want to go this far

Anyway, other than the usual Final Destination and Smashville counterpicks (IMO in this match-up, you'd probably want to pick FD over SV), another good CP is Castle Siege. Castle Siege and Poke Stadium 1 are my two favourite counterpicks and I think they're really good Diddy stages unless your opponent has a CG or wall infinite.

Brief overview of Castle Siege though: First and third transformations can mess up their recovery, and there's always the slip gimp between the transformations of 2->3 and 3->1. The second transformation has a high ceiling so you should be able to live much longer with good DI, but that's dependent on where you get smashes (obviously if you get tipper fsmashed at 60% off the screen, you aren't living). I can provide more later, hopefully.

Please do go on...

QUESTIONS ON Pokemon Stadium 1
Adarice Panda- "Why CP PS1"
and to P1 "Why BAN PS1"

I'm don't see a clear advantage w/ either character so please go into this

 

[AvaricePanda]

No, you don't want to counterpick PS1 against Marth, although you have better stages to ban.

I meant in general, my favourite counterpicks are Castle Siege and PS1. I usually don't consider CPing Castle Siege against people with chaingrabs, and I don't consider CPing Pokemon Stadium against people with wall-infinites. If your opponent doesn't have either of those then I like CPing these two stages.

 

[white peachy]

I wouldn't CP Pokestadium. I doubt Marth would CP you there, and if he does it's not terrible, provided you can avoid dtilt shenanigans. The "normal" stage (the beginning formation) is the only point where I can see Diddy being at no greater disadvantage than a neutral like Smashville. Still though, 50% of the match is played on the transformations. Personally, I'd be much more afraid of Lylat and BF as a CP from a Marth player though.

For me...

CP's-FD, SV, and if I have to pick another....either Yoshi's or Castle Siege
Bans- BF, Lylat...take your pick between the two.

Except for *maybe* FD, no stage greatly changes the fact that Diddy is at a disadvantage in this matchup. Good luck, hopefully you're better than the Marth.

 

[AvaricePanda]

I'm not saying I'd counterpick PS1. I'm saying as a GENERAL COUNTERPICK, I like PS1 and Castle Siege. Not specifically against Marth, but in general Diddy trumps quite a lot of characters on either of these stages.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Delfino Plaza - Ban worthy?!?!? and WHY
I'm about to implement the Marth Discussion Summary

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Wario Stage Discussion Starts NOW!
4/8/09

 

[DMG]

Get rid of RC, Norfair, or any large stage Wario can run from you on. Don't bother doing this if the Wario doesn't play that way though.

Campy Wario- Ban RC, Norfair, possibly Castle Siege or Delfino, possibly Brinstar (I can't gay him like I can Snake there but it's still bad for Diddy), Maybe even Lylat. Depending on the neutrals, Strike either Lylat or Delfino/Castle Siege first, then get rid of Say Yoshi's or Pokemon Stadium 1. Since they will usually strike FD, try to go to Battle Field perhaps. There's really not a lot of good starter stages for Diddy to take a really campy Wario, it's even worse if you have to strike first since Wario can pick from the last 2 stages. If you can, give him a higher port, which means he has to strike first. For your CP, take him to something medium to large sized and flat. If he bans FD, take him to say Luigi's Mansion (assuming he can't play someone else gay like MK or Olimar on that stage) or Pictochat if you think the hazards won't get in your way too much.

Non Campy Wario- You can get away with RC, Norfair, and some of Diddy's more worse stages. Get rid of whatever you think your opponents best stage, whether you think it is RC or Delfino or even Battle Field. Strike either Battle Field or something like Yoshi's first unless you really like those stages, then strike Lylat/Delfino/PS1. Try to aim for Smashville or FD, if not then you can get away with Yoshi's or Battle Field, just be comfortable with those stages. For your counterpick, Luigi's and Pictochat are fine, you can even try Castle Siege if you think he isn't gonna run around a lot.

Wario has a lot of gay stages compared to most characters lol.

 

[ADHD]

DIddy pwns wario on RC, just get rid of norfair. Brinstar isn't even that bad and that's wario's "notorious" stage, id rather take on a good wario on a dumb stage than a top level mk there.

 

[Deez.]

DIddy pwns wario on RC, just get rid of norfair. Brinstar isn't even that bad and that's wario's "notorious" stage, id rather take on a good wario on a dumb stage than a top level mk there.

Clearly when you beat SlikVik at Brinstar haha...

 

[slikvik]

*name searches*

After seeing how NL manuevered against leemartin on that stage and how ADHD handled me on that stage, I don't see how it could be bad for diddy. It's like a jungle gym for diddy.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

I was recently on the "Wario Stage Discussion" and it seems Luigi Mansion is a bad map for Wario

Here is a quote from the Discussion

When the house is still standing your range of movement is somewhat limited. Characters with strong ground games benefit from this. Wario's ground game isn't exactly stellar, so you can see the problem. Breaking down parts of the house and luring them out in the open can help with this, but in a tourney you might need to have the lead to acomplish this. Breaking down the entire house is also possible to turn it into FD but the house will respawn pretty quickly, meaning you have start all over again.

Recommended ban: OLIMAR(!), MK, note: banning this is never a bad idea

Recommended counterpick: Hahaha

Diddy has a **** good ground game, has alot of potential on this stage and he seems like he could manuvier really well, also with the Uspecial on the "non-going through platforms" seems it would do wonders against this match-up

Any objection on why this stage wouldn't be a bad CP

 

[Kaptain Kong]

barrel canceling is awesome here and destroys the house really quickly, also its a plain stage once you destroy the house

also, when the house is up, banana play is slightly limited by the pillars, but you can just destroy them

i personally dislike this stage, you can get gimped semi easily if you try to recover under the lip or you side b too far, its a pretty big stage iirc, and diddy has some trouble finishing

 

[chimpact]

Also wario's fsmash, dair, and fsmash get a boost from the pillars. increasing their range and duration of the hitbox. I haven't played around with it though. IT seems diddy can get off some easy damage on this stage.

 

[Bellioes]

I personally love this stage. Diddy has a really good ground game and the enclosed space means easier combos. Unteched Uthrows/Usmashes on the bottom level lead to other moves and you can seriously rack up a lot of damage as long as you do it when least expected. I say this stage is definitely a good CP against Wario:
-Wario cant air camp as much in the house
-on the ground more means more tripping
-easy damage with Uthrows/Usmash when unteched (can lead to grabs, smashes tilts etc if theyre unprepared) Try banana locking people from unteched Uthrows/Usmashs
-when the house is gone, it becomes similar to one of Diddys best neutrals, FD

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Need to know "Whys" for Wario discussion

Wario Stage Discussion so far. . .
Counter: Luigi Mansion, FD/SV
BAN: Norfair

Need of ASSISTANCE! [Being Discussed Currently in the thread]

Battlefield: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Brinstar: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Rainbow: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Pictochat: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Castle: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Yoshi: CP or BAN or Neutral -
Delfino: CP or BAN or Neutral -

Wario CP or BAN: [Throwing this out there and you should also]
Seems to me PS1 would be a good CP for Wario, [This is hard because I never really played a good Wario]
Pokemon Stadium 1
- Neutral transformation [50% Match] is like FD/SV despite stage gimpage
- Other Transformations seems it would hurt Wario from Camping and some aggressive Offense.

Quote Note: THIS IS MY OPINION, I NEED YOURS

Need of ASSISTANCE! [Being Discussed Currently in the thread]

Battlefield: CP or BAN or Neutral - Counter
- Diddys Advantage
- Removes Campy Wario
- Diddy's on this stage have many approaching options, mindgames, easy mobility

Brinstar: CP or BAN or Neutral - Neutral [very slight wario advantage]
- I have never played this matchup on this stage, but I have a visual.
- I want to see that Slikvik vs. ADHD but, I can't find it [any links?]

Rainbow: CP or BAN or Neutral - counter
- Diddys seems he would own on the ship
- Diddy has high mobility and seems he can space himself well
- Transformation 2 seems to me your only problem

Pictochat: CP or BAN or Neutral - Neutral?????
- I have never played this matchup on this stage

Castle: CP or BAN or Neutral - BAN
- Transformation 1 : [Wario's Advantage]
- cant space yourself enough w/ the small platforms
- Keep off the lower level
- Transformation 2 : [Wario Advantage]
- Easy arieal mobility through the statue's platforms
- High Ceiling
- Transformation 3 : [Diddy's Advantage]
- Like FD/SV, neutral
- Tilt doesn't hurt Wario's recovery

Yoshi: CP or BAN or Neutral - Neutral
- Don't see a clear advantage
- high platforms allows less platform banana gimpage

Delfino: CP or BAN or Neutral - BAN
- I haven't played a Wario here, but I have a visual

 

[AvaricePanda]

I use Wario for doubles so I know a little more about him...

Battlefield is Wario's best neutral. He can still be rather aircampy on the stage...not as much, but still can. And he can easily recatch your bananas on the platforms with a SH Dair, hitting you and getting a banana. Or really any short hop. Also, all of Wario's aerials can autocancel when shorthopped, and I'm pretty sure that most of them can hit you if you're on the platform(bair, nair, fair, and uair can all hit you, not sure about dair).

Don't counterpick this. But don't ban it.

Brinstar...no. IMO, I'd still ban here. Diddy can be good here, but unless you really know how to play here, the Wario has the stage advantage (he has stage advantage regardless because it's just a good stage for him). Plus, and I'm going to quote DMG on this one, if the Wario you're facing plays really gay (AKA DMG) he can just camp and run around for 8 minutes, lol. CP if you're playing a gay Wario...possibly CP anyway.

RC...I definitely wouldn't counter. Playing on a heavy aerial stage where your opponent has one of the best air games in the game isn't fun. Wario doesn't really control bananas like Marth (he can, just not as well), although he has a pretty good time evading and flat out getting rid of them. Since he's in the air a lot anyway, you probably aren't going to make him trip on the ship with a banana (especially if he just camps on the two top platforms). Second third of the stage is definitely Wario's advantage, and third could go either way, just don't get clapped in the low ceiling and don't get fsmashed off the side.

Pictochat - wut

Castle Siege - Ban if the Wario is aggressive. Otherwise, just don't CP. I've had experience with good Warios here and it's not fun. 1st transformation is LOOOL, it's pretty hard to navigate around him, the slope and platforms hinder you and help him. And there's the potential of getting gimped in the lip (I never really have the problem, it's just a disadvantage that I'm mentioning).

Second transformation is a little better, there's a high-ceiling for DI and surviving claps, although if he forward throws or fsmashes you here, you're gone. He can navigate around the stage when the statues are there and easily avoids your bananas, you only really have a chance of banana control when you destroy the statues, but then you're at a slightly higher risk of death.

Third transformation is either way, probably slight Diddy advantage. Tilting level doesn't really hinder either of you...kind of like FD or SV, it's neutral.

Yoshi's Island Brawl - Strike the neutral in stage strike system (strike BF and Yoshi's if you can), but don't ban it. It's slightly harder for you to navigate here while it really doesn't matter for Wario (throwing his bike is just so lol here though, as a gimp and if he upthrows it when you're on the top platform). Other than that, it's kind of neutral, but again, easier for Wario to avoid your bananas when it's already easy for him to do so.

Delfino - Neutral? Again, I only have experience playing here as Wario, not against a Diddy or against a Wario. It seems like an okay stage for both. What visual are you getting here, Chong?

Also, I'm going to test around with PokeStadium 1 against Wario and see what happens @_@

Ban this if you don't ban Norfair.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Delfino - Neutral? Again, I only have experience playing here as Wario, not against a Diddy or against a Wario. It seems like an okay stage for both. What visual are you getting here, Chong?

Also, I'm going to test around with PokeStadium 1 against Wario and see what happens @_@

Well I've barely have an opinion since I have never honestly played good wario before.
Delfino Plaza:
- Certain Transformation seems it would hurt Warios bike
- Banana wouldn't be hindered much due to high platforms
- Wario recover is helped due to be able to go through bottom ground platform [like it needs any more help] It helps Diddy too
- Down Tilt against the umbrella for multihits and the wall part to rack up alot of damage [don't know if wario can get out of this due to his aerial floattyness]
- Transformations beach is in Warios favor
- Stage seems he could use the high platform for easy approaching, and avoiding Bananas
- Awkward Diddy map

Now thinking about It I would consider it NEUTRAL since I made this list & Please Advice do find out about PS1

DIddy pwns wario on RC, just get rid of norfair. Brinstar isn't even that bad and that's wario's "notorious" stage, id rather take on a good wario on a dumb stage than a top level mk there.

RC...I definitely wouldn't counter. Playing on a heavy aerial stage where your opponent has one of the best air games in the game isn't fun. Wario doesn't really control bananas like Marth (he can, just not as well), although he has a pretty good time evading and flat out getting rid of them. Since he's in the air a lot anyway, you probably aren't going to make him trip on the ship with a banana (especially if he just camps on the two top platforms). Second third of the stage is definitely Wario's advantage, and third could go either way, just don't get clapped in the low ceiling and don't get fsmashed off the side.

ChromePirate: How does Diddy pwn on Rainviw Cruise
AvaricePanda: Does this apply to campy or aggresive Warios

I need more reasoning if I'm going to make a Decision

 

[Bellioes]

Ive never played a Wario on RC but I consider Delfino a bad stage against him. He has an advatage in some of the transformations. For example, the beach b/c of the slopes hindering your banana game and the fountain part for the same reason. But the pillars are where youll see this the most. Diddy seriously sucks here (Unless theres some trick I dont know about )But I guess the fountain part lets you banana lock kill of the sides but still, the Wario can just air camp in the middle where you cant lock him. But all the others transformations are neutral so Diddy never really has the advantage (except in the Umbrella part but it isnt really a large one)
-The moving part likes a BF with a higher platforms so neutral for both characters
-Fountain is in Warios favor I think as I stated above.
-Umbrella part Id say is slightly in Diddys favor cause of the possiblity of banana lock kills of the side and walls for infinites (2 naners and I think DTilt too but I m not sure) in the water. But if the Warios aware of what you can do here, youll probably never get a good Wario in an infinite. But the possibility is enough to effect their game.
-Rooftop Id say is neutral. I usually dont approach here cause the Wario I play is more campy and camps the opposite side Im on with aerials. But if you do approach, peanuts usually give you the opening you need.
-Again, the beach part is in Warios favor as i stated above
-Pillar part is definitely Warios advantage. Your banana game is pretty much ineffective here and the multiple ledges let Wario camp aerials like crazy. I try to just camp with peanuts and Fairs but it still doesnt help since hes invincible half the time from all those ledges. Anyone who has advice for this part, Please Share
So yeah, my thoughts on Delfino.

 

[Player-1]

ADHD is stupid don't listen to him

CPs:
FD
SV
Luigi's Mansion
Yoshi's Island
PS1/Yoshi's Island

Bans:
Norfair
Brinstar
Rainbow Cruise
Delphino Plaza


PS1's transformation can interrupt Wario's air game, but Wario can still avoid these interruptions and wait for the stage to turn back

Yoshi's Island, just your next best neutral next to FD and SV. The slants at the edges gives your more range for a GR > aerial (dair usually), but you can DI towards the wall and tech it .

Delphino, none of the transformations limits Warios air game and only give him slightly better advantages.

Luigi's Mansion, it's easier to GR him into stuff. At lower percents Diddy can air releaase Wario, but if Wario gets higher then he will stay in the grab longer giving him a better chance of not being air released.

 

[AvaricePanda]

@Chong, if the Wario's campy or really gay, then you'd probably rather ban stages like Norfair or Brinstar before Rainbow Cruise. If the Wario's aggressive, this is a stage you'd probably want to consider banning. Rainbow cruise is a pain against all types of Warios, but the stage does help Wario's offensive game while limiting a heck of a lot more characters.

 

[Bellioes]

What makes Brinstar such a bad stage against Wario. All I can think of is the stages shape inhibiting your banana game. Everyone saying to ban it but I dont see why. Anyone mind clarifying

 

[Player-1]

What makes Brinstar such a bad stage against Wario. All I can think of is the stages shape inhibiting your banana game. Everyone saying to ban it but I dont see why. Anyone mind clarifying

The fact that it has a small blast zone thing gives him the biggest advantage there probably. The lava doesn't affect him that much, he can control the air and get you in the lava, he lives longer here compared to most characters that play on this stage. The 2 tentacle things holding the platform give it so the Fsmash has a huge hitbox and last long, the fact that you can attack through the stage on the bottom is good for him. The stage breaking things sometimes messes with movements and that can lead into a fart or Fsmash. The lava saves him from GR > dair. THat's about it I think, and also the fact that he can control this stage REALLY well.

 

[Bellioes]

OK thanks P1.
I actually wanna play a Wario here just to see what its like.

EDIT: I had already heard of extending the hitbox of Warios Fsmash but I never understood what happened exactly. People were saying the hitbox extends to the object being hit (the tentacle things if were talking about Brinstar) but I could never get it to work when I tested it.
Anyways, I didnt really think the hitbox was extended, just PROLONGED. And I thought people were just getting confused with the two. So asked on the tacticle boards to be sure and heres what I got as an answer;

If an attack hits something, it goes through "hitlag" (see: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155409 for more details), during which, the animation is held still for a number of frames (including the hitbox). If you hit something like a pillar, you'll put your attack in hitlag, making the active frames last longer than normal. The actual area the hitbox covers remains the same.

So its not the hitbox thats extended, its just prolonged as I thought. Anyways, if its prolonged, then Diddy can use this to his advantage too (Fair and Dsmash seem to benifit the most from this). So about what you posted above P1, it doesnt get larger, it just lasts LONGER.

 

[chimpact]

Rainbow cruise isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Norfair should be your first ban. Since theres like 100 platforms (5) and the lava can get really annoying. Diddy's aerial speed is slow as anythign compared to wario's so he might get hit by the horizontal lava that comes. Ban norfair and brinstar. Brinstar really Isn't that bad unless you play a really boring campy wario. Any wario can beat diddy on brinstar if they camp enough.

I really wish pictochat was a neutral. IT is way more fair then something stupid like norfair, brinstar or rainbow cruise.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

R.O.B Stage Discussion Starts Now. . .
[4/14/09]