PhatyCHONG
Smash Apprentice
Diddy Kong's Stage Match-ups Discussion
____________________________________________________
I decided based upon other "Character Discussions" threads that the Diddy Kong community importantly needs to have a generalize area on the Diddy kong character discussion threads to talk about "Counter-picks" and "Bans" for it is completely necessary for us all to contribute on discussing and debateing for better match-up ability for tournament play. Once we have a general thesis on a character match-up a summary description will be implemented.
Previously Character Discussed: Pikachu
Currently Discussing #13 Ice Climbers
Super Smash Bros. Tournament Brawl Stages list are as the following:
Character are as the following[/U]
Bowser:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Captain Falcon:Counterpicks:
Bans:
Diddy Kong:
Counterpicks: Your personal preference and most comfortable Stage
Reason for Counter:
Stage: This match is Neutral so Counter pick your most comfortable stage.
Bans: Your personal preference and least comfortable stage
Stage: This match is Neutral so ban your least comfortable stage.
[Advice for Dittos:]
- As you know and safely said about 90% of Diddy's would play their best on an environment with a flat stage with little interference such as FD and SV. Advice would be to study the counter play list and to become very comfortable with a map you wouldn't usually see a diddy player pick as a Counter. IMO I would choose RC or Norfair where you can put yourself in a more comfortable position. [But this can also backfire for example, people like "Player-1" whose favorite stage is RC and could potentially hurt your chances :D
Donkey Kong:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Falco:
Counterpicks: Castle Seige, Luigi Mansion, Rainbow Cruise, Smashville/FD, Laylat Cruise [potential CP]
Reason for Counter:
Castle Seige
Transformation 1
Transformation 2
- Is small and avoids excessive falco camping
- The Slope can hurt his "chain grab" and "lasers"
- Having control of the high grounds of the slop allows you to have better approach options while better avoiding falco's reflectors
Transformation 3
- Statues eats lasers
- Tilting stage hurts "Chain grab"
- Tilting stage hurts "Recovery" and certain parts of the stage gimps Falco's recovery such as LC.
- Stage layout is similar to FD and SV w/ no platform
[Stage Advice: Castle Seige
]
- During transformation 2 you have a possibility of being CG'd off the edge with the walk off ledges so keep you game in the middle and avoid the ground.
- During the transformation between 2 & 3 and 3 & 1 if you throw a banana at the end of the transformation at Falco the banana "trip animation" will gimp him from recovery because of the stage transformation.
Luigi Mansion
- Falco's camp game is destroyed by the wall pillars
- Glide tossing can give interesting potential for banana toss to pillar protection
- platforms underneath the stage can potentially save you from CG'd to Dspike
- Diddy can move fairly easy through out the stage
Rainbow Cruise
- Vast majority of the 2 minute cruise really hurts falco's camping options
- Diddy has the advantage on the ship, take high grounds of the ship
- Naners can lock Falco in the corner of the ship
- Falco is MOST Vulnerable for gimpage on this map and edge garding / fast-fall aerial attacks are essential.
IMO [PhatyCHONG] best potential for CP against Falco because of gimping recovery exploiting
Smashville / FD
- SV & FD are always good maps for Diddy against any character
- Flat map allows diddy to be at his best for banana use
- Smashville is more helpful to avoid lasers than FD because of the platform
- Smashville is a smaller stage than FD to allow shorter CG by Falco
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] Smashville is your better choice but FD has just as good potential against Falco
Laylat Cruise: [Potential Counter]
- Stage tilt hurts "CG's"
- Stage tilt hurts "lasers"
- Stage tilt hurts "recovery" and already has a natural gimpable ledge
Bans: Jungle Japes, Norfair
Reason for Ban:
Jungle Japes
- Falco can camp better than any character here
- Falco best map [according to Falco's match up discussion] for CG'able Characters
- Falco can whip you out so quickly with the CG because the Dspike hit you into the water which can most likely kill you no matter what percentage
[Stage advice: If somehow you have to play this stage against Falco best advice is to KEEP YOUR DISTANCE even though he can camp you Peanut gun, airdodgeing and bananas are your only way you can win, one grab and it over. Don't approach unless he is tripping. If the falco you play knows how to CG your chances are like 15:85 unless their is massive skill difference LOL]
Norfair
.
- Falco can camp fairly well on this stage
- 5 platforms hurts your banana game
- CG's on the small platforms with the Dspike can get you potentially killed
[Stage Advice: If you somehow you have to play this stage against Falco, approach from high ground angles are your best bet. Vertical Banana throws are alot easier on this match which avoids reflector, when below falco peanut gun help from certain Falco approaches.]
Fox:
Counterpicks::
Bans:
Game & Watch:
Counterpicks: Smashville, Final Destination
Reason for Counter pick:
Smashville
- Good map for Diddy
- Best Neutral stage
- Platform give different approaching options
- Smaller map allow more Offensive play
Final Destination
- Good map for Diddy
- Larger horizontal stage allows more Defensive play
Bans: Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Norfair, and Lylat Cruise
Reason for Ban:
Corneria
Stage Advice: To show you how Deadly G&W U Smash
- Consider G&W best CP stage
- Incredibly low Ceiling [2nd lowest] give G&W easy quick kills from Usmash
- Small off stage blast zones give easy quick kills for G&W from Fsmash
- G&W can use the mothership or spaceship to fill his projectile bucket that could give out a damage as high as 45%-60%
- The ship's fin is a deathpit for diddy
- The fin also allows G&W to dtilt lock so just try to avoid it. A possible G&W setup that almost always works is grab -> dthrow -> dtilt,dtilt,dtilt (lock). You can be lock until about 125% but, your stock will quickly end after one more smash from G&W.
- Even G&W Uair [blowing at you to fly up] has a high possibility to star KO you.
- Rating: 10/10 for G&W Stage Discussion BAN THIS STAGE!!!
Kill Data
- Diddy dies at about 65% in the middle of Corneria from a Usmash!
- Diddy dies at about 50% on the tip of the fin from Usmash!
- Jiggs dies at about 50% in the middle of Corneria from a Usmash!
- DDD dies at about 80% in the middle of Corneria from a Usmash!
- DDD dies at 65-70% on the tip of the fin from a Usmash!]
Rainbow Cruise
- On the Boat G&W can Dtilt lock
- RC can potentially hender banana game
- G&W can put easily put pressure on characters who need space [Peanut Gun & Nana]
- G&W can use the flying carpets for good dthrow techchasing.
- G&W good vertical Recovery w/ parachute helps him against some recovery deaths
- G&W has higher priority
- High possibility of being Gimped
- Rated 10/10 on the G&W Stage Discussion
Norfair
- The layout of the stage completely destroys diddy's ground-based banana game.
- G&W can Dthrow Techchase really well on this stage
- 6 Ledges gives G&W so many options to recover, camp, and approaching
- G&W can ledge camp like a king with his nair coming from below of platforms
- Only thing going for you on this stage is you have a less chance of being gimped with the muti-platforms
- Considered one of Diddy Kong's worst stage
- Ranked 8/10 on the G&W Stage Discussion
Lylat Cruise
- G&W already has move set priority
- G&W destroys you in air dominance
- When playing against G&W, he doesn't nearly have as effective of a projectile as DDK so spacing yourself is much needed to win but the small stage setup doesn't allow nearly enough spacing for you to have an advantage
- G&W is the third fastest charcter in the game [following Sonic and MK] so taking your Bananas is quite the ease, considering he can "Z" grab too
- G&W murders with Nair on the platforms
- G&W can Edgeguard like a MoFO and small stage setup and tilt can make you be off the stage more, which could potentially let you be gimped
- Low Platforms and tilt hender some banana game
- The only thing really going for you is the Pgun
- G&W is G&W and he's a beast
- Dthrow Techchaseing is dominates on the platforms
- Potential Stage gimp
- Ranked 5/10 for G&W on the Stage Discussion
Ganondorf:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Ice Climbers:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Ike:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Jigglypuff:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
King Dedede:Counterpicks: Jungle Japes, Battlefield, Smashville, Brinstar
Reason for Counter:
Jungle Japes
- High Ceiling helps against D3 U-tilt
- D3 Recovery can be easily gimped here
- Peanut Gun are your best friend on this map, peanut camping destroys d3
- D3's Chain Grab is really hurt on this stage
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] Your best CP for D3
Battlefield
- Being "Chained Grabbed" by DDD is one of the most annoying parts of the game and Battlefields small stage allows being CG'd at a minimum.
- Peanut Gun is really effective on this map with the small stage, D3's large body, and even platforms all help you as DDD is easy to hit.
- Platforms hurts his Waddle Dee action
- Battlefield stage setup allow Diddy to have his best mindgame potential
- Combo set up is easy for diddy especially with the platforms
- You can avoid multiple chain grabs being on the platforms
- Many options for approaching
Smashville
- No need to explain, Diddy's best neutral stages [better than FD on this matchup]
- Smashville's smaller stage than FD allows less duration of being chain grabbed and Offensive play
- Smashville's platform helps against WaddleDEES
- FD allows you to space yourself out more and Defensive play
Brinstar
- The ground is unlevel and prevents many chainsgrabs
- D3 is more prone to lava hits
- Lava saves you from D3's great edgegarding ability, prevents some gimps
- Peanut Gun is really effective on this map
- Great CP for D3
Bans: Pokemon Stadium 1, Delfino Plaza, Castle Siege, Rainbow Cruise
Reason for Bans:
Rainbow Cruise
- Moving stage hurt's Banana game
- You have a very high chance of being gimped
- D3's mutiple jumps help him tremedously
- D3 is already a great edgeguarder
- D3 lives forever on this stage
- BAN THIS STAGE!! it is your key to failure
Pokemon Stadium
Delfino Plaza
- The stage can gimp your recovery
- D3 can wall chaingrab
- All tranformation D3 can chaingrab well
- Many Places for D3 to infinite chaingrab
- Tranformation can do a walk off chaingrab to death
- Considered one of D3's best maps
Castle Siege
Transformation 1
Transformation 2
- Waddle Dees are effective on this transformation
- Possible Stage gimp
- D3's can Edgegard really well on this transformation
Transformation 3
- Statues hurt some Banana game [so does his waddledees]
- If your on ground level your most likely going to be walk off chaingrab to death
- This Transformation is in your advantage
- however the stage tilt could possibly gimp
Kirby:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Link:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Lucario:
Counterpicks: Final Destination, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise, Brinstar, Battlefield
Reason for Counter:
Final Destination
- Overall always a good diddy stage
- Bad: No platforms to avoid Lucario Blast
- Defensive play
Smashville
- Overall alway a good diddy stage
- A platform to help you against some of lucario blast while 50% of the time have no interuption of the platform getting in way of banana game.
- [IMO] Better than FD on this matchup
- Offensive play
Rainbow Cruise
- Fair gets nerfed
- Easily gimped recovery
- Bad: D air get buffed
- Transformation 1 - Diddy's Favor: Always own on the ship, pressure towards that lip.
- Transformation 2 - Slight Lucario Favor: Has higher priority but can be easily gimped
- Transformation 3 - Diddy's Favor: can help get kills against Lucario because of the low ceiling and Lucario being hard to kill
Lylat Cruise
- Lucario struggles to recovery in many different situations
- Tilt hurts Lucario blast
Brinstar
- Easier to kill lucario
- Small Blast zone
- Easy to Camp lucario
- Stage hurts lucario's blast
- Bad: Hard to gimped
- Good: Hard to be gimped
Battlefield
Bans: Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Norfair, Yoshi Island, Luigi Mansion
- Any Neutral is good against Lucario
- Wouldn't CP or Ban
Reason for Ban:
Frigate Orpheon
- Considered Lucario's best stage
- Really hard to Gimp because he always have walls to cling to.
- Can Wall cling in every transformation
- Slope of the 2nd part of the transformation helps his Fair and Dair
- You can be gimped
- The Platforms that come out of the side of the stage only helps him more
Jungle Japes
- Lucario can CAMP
- High Ceiling help Lucario even more
- Hard to be gimped here
- Lucario can live longer on this stage than most
Norfair
- Considered one of Diddy's worst stage
- Lucario ground game and air game get buffed here
- More likely to be tech chased
- Hard to Gimp here
- Hard to be gimped here
- Aura sphere gets buffed
Yoshi Island
- Lucarios Best Neutral
- He can wall cling to avoid gimps
- Lucarios tend [no evidence but can be said] to CP there best neutral which would be Yoshi Island
Undecided/Neutral: Luigi Mansion
Reason for Undecided/Neutral
Luigi Mansion
Cons:
Pros:
- Hard to kill lucario here when he is in the Mansion
- Pillars give Lucario an extended hit box
- Aura sphere gets nerfed because of the pillars
- Lucario can camp under the ceiling
- Rocket Barrel Cancel is a beast
- Diddy can maneuver better than lucario
- Peanuts help against Lucario aerials
- Once mansion is knocked down, its like FD
Lucas:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Luigi:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Mario:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Marth:
Counterpicks: Castle Seige, Jungle Japes, Final Destination, Smashville
Reason for Counter:
Castle Seige
Transformation 1
Transformation 2
- First Transformation hurts Marth's recovery, possible stage gimp
- Being on the slope helps your d-tilt
- Stay on high ground for best potential
Transformation 3
- Transformation from 2 to 3 can have potential banana slip gimp
- High Ceiling helps you live longer
- Possible banana lock to death on ground
- Third Transformation's tilt hurts Marth's recovery
- Transformation from 3 to 1 can have potential banana slip gimp
- Neutral Flat Stage [your favor]
Jungle Japes
- Marth being caught in the water is a death pit for him
- Being on Marth Discussion boards, they seem to hate this stage alot
- Peanut camping is really effective
- Bananas Bananas, Bananas USE THEM
Final Destination
- Marth seems to do really well on multiple platforms and FD escapes this
- Diddy does well Neutral stages w/ the least interrupting of Banana game
- No Need to explain one of diddy best stages
- Defensive Play
- Allows you to space yourself, which is much needed because Marth out reaches you
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] FD is better than SV in this Matchup
Smashville
- Marth does well on multiple platforms and SV escapes alot of it
- Diddy does well on Neutral stages w/ least interruption of Banana game
- No need to explain one of diddy best stages
- Offensive Play
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] FD is better than SV in this Matchup
Bans: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield, Norfair
Reason for Ban:
Lylat Cruise
- Very similar to BF and BF is considered Marth'ss best stage
- Low set platforms really hurt banana action
- Tilt pressures more areial game, which Marth dominates
- Possible stage gimp
- Marths can GIMP diddy with ease
- Good Marth stage
Battlefield
- BF is considered Marths best stage
- Marth has too many approaching options
- Usmash, Utilt go through first row platforms from the ground
- Platforms can POTENTIALLY hurt Banana game
- Marths seem to do well on using your bananas
- Marth play really Offensive on this stage
- Marths are incredible good at spacing
- Marths can GIMP diddy with EASE
Norfair
- Considered one of Diddy's worst stages
- Small 5 platforms hurts banana and ground game
- Banana and Ground game WAS your best bet BUT w/ it being extremely hurt Marth's DESTROY you in arieal game so this really hurts your chances
- Having 5 platforms help Marth to space, [coming from below platforms to Fair oouch]
- Only thing going for you on this map is you have a better chance on not being gimped w/ all the ledge options
[Quote Note: Rainbow Cruise was put on the "Counter Pick" list on the "Marth Stage Discussion Thread". However Rainbow Cruise was NOT recognize as a "Counter Pick" or a "Ban" on the "Diddy Kong Stage Discussion" until further re-Discussion.]
[Quote Note: Since Rainbow Cruise was put on the "Counter Pick" listing for Diddy against Marth, on the "Marth Stage Disscussion Thread". Here is a Stragetic Note for Diddy Kong vs. Marth Rainbow Cruise]Marth's tend to CP me on RAINBOW CRUISE a lot so nI'd assume most Marths like it. Dtilt against the wall is good for him, and the gimping part of the stage is pretty much only 1/3 of the stage itself, the other 2/3s marth seems to do fairly well on.
Official Marth Counterpicking Discussion
Diddy Kong:
Counterpicks: Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise
Bans: Final Destination, Smashville
[Credited to Avarice Panda]
Metaknight:
Counterpicks: Smashville, FD,
Reason for Counter:
Final Destination
- To remove yourself from Metaknight dominance of platforms
- The large horizontal map give you great distance to keep on the defense with banana setup.
Smashville
- With only one platform and small horizontal stage gives banana's to be close for offensive play
- MO Best CP for MK
Bans: Rainbow Cruise, Norfair
Reason for Ban:
Rainbow Cruise
- This a set up for failure unless your on the ship with Bananas
- Your constantly moving and being gimped is quite possible.
- MK speed is faster than yours
Norfair:
- With 5 small platforms
- Metaknight ability to combo and with areial dominance gives you chance for quick deaths
- You have a higher possibility of being gimped.
Quote Note: Upon discussion this is "high recommendation" based upon stage flaws to which you should "ban" against metaknight.
Ness:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Olimar:
Counterpicks: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Smashville, Final Destination
Reason for Counter:
Rainbow Cruise
Transformation 1
Transformation 2
- Diddy's Favor
- Diddy's do very well on the Lip
- Possible stage Gimp on the edge front on the vote [stage right]
- Best transformation to use Bananas
Transformation 3
- Gimp Gimp Gimp Gimp Gimp. . . . . . :D
- Diddy's Favor
- Be careful being left of Olimar
- Third and worst transformation for Bananas
- Slight Olimar's Favor
- Low Ceiling gives Olimar an advantage due to it being easer for him to Star KO Diddy
- Possible Stage Gimp
- Second best Transformation for Bananas
[Note: Olimar's always tend to ban this stage, Olimar not banning this stage due to the thought "Diddy's Bananas suck on that stage :D, he wouldn't counter that stage" said the gullible Olimar :D]
Frigate Orpheon
- High Possibility for Stage Gimp on Olimar\par
- Possible for Stage Gimps on Diddy Kong, [more prone to Olimar]
- Platforms help against Olimars camping and better approaches
- Pretty Neutral other than the stage flipping and gimping
- The platforms coming off the bast zone helps against some stage flipping
[Note: I was reading on the "Olimar stage discussion Bans/CP" and most characters had for olimar to Ban Frigate but did not it banned against Diddy? I don't know why they wouldn't ban this stage since Diddy Kong already has a fairly good recovery and it a typical stage Ban.]
Jungle Japes
- Peanut CAMPING!
- Due to small middle and side horizontal Olimar minions are Prone for fish bait
- High ceiling helps against Olimar Usmash and doesn't hurt you cause Usmash is terrible for kills :D
- Some of the Pikmin die in the water making it even harder to recover
- Pressure them to that left side :D
- If Olimar falls into the water he can become stage gimp
- Olimar already has a probable possibility for gimp
- GT to Grab anyone?
- Bad: Olimar can camp just as well as Diddy
[Note: Jungle Japes is sometime banned just as well as RC, however If they are both stages are allowed, Frigate Orpheon is hardly ever banned for a CP. Meaning good CP such as Jungle Japes is like 75% what is going to be left since Olimar regulary ban RC and FrO
Final Destination
- Always a good Diddy stage
- However always a good Olimar stage
- Bad Ledges really hurt Olimar Tether
- FD is more for aggresive Olimar
- Defensive play
Smashville
- Always a good Diddy stage
- However always a good Olimar stage
- Platform helps against Olimar ground action and Camping
- Platform helps for more approaching options
- SV is for more Defensive Olimar [Camping]
- Offensive Play
- [IMO] Smashville is a better counter pick for Olimar
Bans: Luigi Mansion, Norfair, Lylat Cruise.
Reason for Ban:
Luigi Mansion
- Olimar lives alot longer in the house
- Olimar can repeat Usmash against the 1st floor's roof
- Once the house is down is just like FD, but you both rock hard on that stage
- You take way to much damage on the first floor
- Really hard to approach on the first floor
- Possible Olimar stage Gimp
- Possible Diddy Kong stage Gimp
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] YOU SHOULD MOST DEFINATLY BAN LM AGAINST OLIMAR, you will regret it.
Norfair
- Considered as Diddy Kong's worst stage
- Since the fun in Olimar is gimping him, multiple platforms could pervents such gimpage [still able to gimp though :D]
- Small Platforms hender Banana game
- Olimar does really well on controlling the stage, especially if in the middle
Lylat Cruise
[This "BAN" is more focused on "STAGE STRIKING" rather than "Ban" since LC is a probable starter stage]
- The low raised platforms only really benefits Olimar
- Considered one Olimar's best neutral
- The Lip and tilts of the stage help olimar for grabbing in angles helps while also avoiding certain combat moves
- Olimar's Dsmash already has a very horizontal knock back, the tilt could shoot you more of a southwest/southeast angle.
- Olimar can Uair under the level and can go though [not to much relivance since it could be easily punished, risky olimar move due to recover and gimping]
- Tilt henders some banana game
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] I think it is just an awkward diddy stage, especially against someone who thrives on this stage such as Olimar
- Jump > Banana throw could be hurt by platforms
- Potential Diddy Stage GIMP
Being discussed in the [DKBR] / Possible Neutral: Yoshi Island, Halberd
Reason for Debate:
Yoshi Island?
Cons:
Pros:
- The tilts of the stage help olimar for grabbing in angles while also avoiding certain combat moves
- Tilt could maby hurt some banana game
- Rising off stage platform could save Olimar from losing a stock
- No chance of Olimar having a Bad Ledge grab
- Fsmash camping is prone for Olimar
- Tiliting Platforms henders some of Olimar's SH > Side B
- Tilt can potentially hurt Olimar's CG [very situational]
- Not to much interference just a regular neutral
- When Olimar is on the platforms take advantage
- Considered just a regular ole Neutral
[This stage is not going to be Baned or CP, but rather a stage strike considering he does well on this stage, where you have better advantages on others]
Halbred
- [Not enough information for decision, however is being dicussed and will be implemented and changed in a later period.]
- Olimar Favor? [Being discussed on wether its a BAN or Neutral]
Peach:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Pikachu:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Pit:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Pokemon Trainer:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
ROB:
Counterpicks: Neutrals, not in ROB's favor
Reason for Counter:
Neutrals
Bans: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Luigi Mansion
- There is not a strong counter pick stage for Diddy against ROB so you basically have to keep your Neutrals
- Pick your most comfortable stage
- IMO [PhatyCHONG] Your best options are Final Destination / Smashville / Yoshi Island
- Battlefield and Lylat are not as strong of neutrals because of Robs areial game,
- Rob very rarely gets stage gimp so PS1, Lylat, Castle Seige [T1], and others are in ROB favor
- All of Delfino Plaza is in ROB's Favor
- Delfino Plaza he can use the under the map and hit you through the level
- Castle Seige [T1 & T2] are in ROB's favor
- Castle Seige [T3] is in slight Diddy Favor
Reason for Ban:
Rainbow Cruise
- ROB cannot be stage gimped
- ROB being able to be in the air a long time can have him options for gimping
- Transformation 1[IMO] Ship is 55:45 Diddy's slight favor
- Transformation 2 in ROB's Favor
- Transformation 3 in ROB's Favor [watch out for Usmash and StandDogdge > Dsmash
- Stage can potentially hurt Banana game
Jungle Japes
- Stage's water only hurts you as ROB can recover 95% of the time
- Small middle horizonal platform hurts some banana locking
- ROB can camp really well on this stage w/ laser and gyro
- Peanuts are the only thing really going for you
Luigi Mansion
- ROB can Dsmash you into the Ceiling and tech chase you
- Hard to K.O. ROB when he is inside the house
- ROB can camp well inside the house
Samus:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Snake:
Counterpicks: Castle Siege, Smashville, Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza
Reason for Counterpicks: [Credited to "AvaricePanda" and "Player-1"]
- AP: (http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=141141)
- P1: (http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=112862)
Smashville
- Good level for Diddy
- Short level makes it easier to approach and punish Snake
- Floating platform helps a ton
Castle Siege
- First transformation is short, multi-platformed. I'm not so sure how well Snake does with multiple platforms, if he's good on them or not. However, his camping is a little harder for him and a little easier for you to keep up with.
- However, there's a curved slope on this first transformation that can mess with your banana setups.
- Second transformation has statues that eat up his myriad of bombs.
- Stage becomes a walk off flat stage when those are destroyed, so you could potentially banana lock him to his death
- Flat stages are good for Diddy's normal game and great for Diddy's banana game
- Third transformation is tilting and flat
- I think, essentially, it's a smaller and differently shaped version of FD. Pretty neutral
- You have to worry about Snakes camping more, if the Snake you're fighting enjoys camping. Most probably since they'd only be able to camp 1/3rd of the stages, they'd do it here (although honestly, I never found camping itself as a major problem).
- Being obvious with your banana throws gives him control of the game, because his dash attack is an easy banana taker. Being more haphazard and taking control of the stage early gives you control of the game.
Rainbow Cruise
- Vast majority of the 2 minute cruise eats his camping options
- For 45 seconds to a minute, Snake has to rely on aerials and air movement more than usual. His aerials themselves aren't bad, but his aerial DI and jump height are both pretty sucky, so it's a plus for you.
- The boat part of the cruise is essentially your game. If they get tempted to pull out a grenade, a grab says hi because the ship is so short. Naners can lock him in the corner. Dtilt can too and is more practical, but gets DIed out of.
- Probably have an easier time following him. On other stages, Snake has so many options, but on RC probably half are cut away, so he's more easily predictable.
Delfino Plaza
- Water equals easier spike setups
- transformations messes with snake gameplay which can be good for either character depending on the situation
- Snake's usually won't recover through the stage because his WHOLE body has to go through the stage which he is tall making it where he stretches himself up when using the cypher which makes him taller. Most stage transformations are either flat [good for Diddy]or have water [bad for Snake].
Bans:Norfair, Brinstar, Battlefield
Reason for Ban: [From information from "Official Snake Match-up"]
Battlefield:
- The platforms hinder his banana
- Tilts pressure you on this map where good snakes use tilts ease.
Brinstar:
- The acid helps snake live longer letting him to survive spikes
- the stage layout prevents you from certain banana techniques
Norfair:
- This is considered one of Diddy's worst stages
- This is considered one of snake's best stages
QUOTE NOTE: This is a stradgy quote for CP against Snake on Rainbow Cruise
Sonic:Counterpicks:
Bans:
Toon Link:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
[/QUOTE]Wario:
Counterpicks: Luigi Mansion, Final Destination, Smashville, Yoshi Island, Pokemon Stadium 1
Reason for Counter:
Luigi Mansion
- Bottom level pressures more ground play which Diddy is better
- Here is a quote from the Discussion
- Wario's seem to hate this stage w/ chacters with good ground game which is Diddy
- Barrel Cancel is beast on this stage
- Diddy has high mobility on this stage
- When map is destroyed it become a FD/SV
- Warios can't air camp as much in the house
- U throw/Smash/Tilt on the "non-going through platforms" leave for potential multiple hits.
- Effective for peanut gun
Final Destination
- Used for "Aggressive" Warios to help Space yourself more
- For Defensive Play
- Always a good Diddy Stage
Smashville
- Used for "campy" Warios to pressure to stop camping
- Always a good Diddy stage
- For offensive play
Pokemon Stadium 1
- Transformations hurt some wario air game
- Transformations transforming hurt wario air game
- Neutral stage is relatively in your favor
- Transformations help against aggressive warios
Yoshi Island
- IHO [Player 1] Best Yoshi's Island, just your next best neutral next to FD and SV.
- Slant at the edge gives you more range for a grab to aerial
- You can DI towards the wall and tech it
- Platform doesn't really hender bananas
- Keep Warios from the middle [Advice]
Bans: Norfair, Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Castle Seige, Delfino Plaza
Reason for Ban:
Norfair
- Considered on of Diddy's worst stages
- Small Platforms hurt Banana game
- He is areial king on this stage
- Campy or Agressive he does well
Brinstar
- Considered on of Warios best stage
- Ground level hurts glide toss to smash, and Bananas
- Small Blastzone
- Wario's clap is really effective
- Wario can use the pillar for an extra hit box
- Wario can camp really well on this stage
- Lava doesn't effect him as much
- Lava can save him from some spikes
- Wario can attack through the bottom level stage
Rainbow Cruise
- Moving stage w/ one of the best areial moveset is difficult
- Considered on of Warios best counterpick
- Moving stage could potentially hurt banana game
- Wario's clap kill well on the low ceiling [T3]
- Transformation 1 [Ship] Diddys Favor
- Transformation 2 Wario's Favor
- Transformation 3 Wario's favor
Castle Seige
Transformation 1
- Ban for Aggressive Wario's if not just don't CP
- Hard to navigate around him
- Slop henders you and helps him
- Potential of being gimped on the "lip"
Transformation 2
- Warios favor
s
- Better than T1 but, Warios favor
- High ceiling helps you from Wario's Clap
- Navigates well by the statues
- Good about avoiding bananas around the statue
Transformation 3
- Diddy advantage
- Kinda like FD/SV
- Tilt doesn't effect anyone
Delfino Plaza
- The variations of platforms in the neutral form work quite well for Wario
- Fart in the water is a free kill for wario
- Wario recover is helped due to be able to go through bottom ground platform [like it needs any more help] It helps Diddy too
- Awkward Diddy map against wario
- Island is much in Wario Favor
- Fountain is in Wario's favor
- Pillar part is definitely Warios advantage. Your banana game is pretty much ineffective here and the multiple ledges let Wario camp aerials like crazy
Wolf:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Yoshi:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Zelda:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
Zero Suit Samus:
Counterpicks:
Bans:
____________________________________________________
Additional Note: We will be discussing each character in order of the tier list v2.0, I listed the list above in alphabetical order for quick search.
Meta Knight
Snake
Wario
Falco
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch
Pikachu
Olimar
Ice Climbers [Currently Discussing]
R.O.B.
Kirby
Lucario
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Donkey Kong
Peach
Luigi
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik
Bowser
Zelda
Pokémon Trainer
Ike
Lucas
Mario
Ness
Yoshi
Samus
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
Additional Note: Once a Character has come to a conclusion and is updated in the list above wait till all characters have gone through disucussion before re-discussion. Also, please put forward a "why" with your decision.
Thanks, PhatyCHONG
