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The Official "Critique My Diddy" Thread!

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GooseMainsDiddy

Smash Ace
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Jan 2, 2009
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731
I'm okay with WiFi as long as it doesn't interfere with the match too much. If it stops you from playing to your fullest, then it's not worth critiquing. Also, Felix, I hope you become a regular to this thread, i'm gonna need all the Diddy's I can get to help out.

Those matches looked like they were severely influenced by button lag so before I waste any time watching both and helping, I want you to tell me how much lag.
 

GooseMainsDiddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
731
And our random Sky posting in a random thread on the Diddy boards.

Chaco, was that Brawl+, it seemed much faster to me but that may just be cuz its 5 AM now. One of my biggest concerns is that you arn't using bananas to thier full advantage, meaning you could do a lot more with them when you get them out. Though you make up for this by having a great stand-alone Diddy. You can rack up tons more damage or completely overwhelm your opponent, you did have good banana control though and you did use them pretty well when you did, it was just a little simplistic. Mix-up your game more to remove predictability from your game.
 

Hobs

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 22, 2008
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390
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Mississauga, Canada (Hobs crk)
GMD,
I'm sure the first match has additional lag due to the other guy watching -> d/c. In general, the lag is usually about greenish level, which I think is pretty good. The capture device made some parts too fast and sometimes too slow, which also might deceive you into thinking it's really bad lag. There's just a few "spots" when it gets choppy, but that isn't too much to change me (I think.)


Anyways, isn't the critiquing more of you telling me what I should have tried to do, regardless of lag, instead of what I failed to connect?


Edit: In other words, couldn't you give me ideas that never got to my head, not say "Oh land that next time" ?
 

Count

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,454
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Things I'm going to have soon:

Vids-8 of em, including a close set with overswarms rob. I have vids of me beating the second and third best falcos in midwest east..I just won a set with the best falco in midwest east also buuuuuut it didn't get recorded.
 

FelixTrix

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 19, 2009
Messages
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Location
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Crispytacoz........ a video from december? Isn't it kind of pointless to comment on a video that is 9 months old when you have obviously improved a lot?
 

GooseMainsDiddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
731
I'll get right on those videos Hobs. It's just, in lag, it's impossible to play to your fullest. How you play in lag won't correlate to what you would actually do.

HOBS EDIT:

Hobs. You play a very basic game, you don't mix up your play style or really do anything that would make you unpredictable. You cut out 3/4 of Diddy's game while showing some bad habits. In the first match. When you saw that Dsmash whouldn't work, why didn't try another follow-up. It's little things like that along with some major things you left out, that really screwed up your game. Once again though, I don't know how you are without the button lag so make sure to get some offline matches up, I would say a lot more about those.
 

Count

Smash Champion
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNSxsd61Bd0&feature=sub game 2 vs overswarm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXNDrYNUILQ game 1 vs overswarm (rob)

game 3 with wangston http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1eSNemiJ8c

game 2 with wangston http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDu1uBPWepc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkNkjX7KD_8&feature=related game 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3XM8P2K9i8&feature=channel_page game 1 clowsui

game 2 clowsui http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02RXrLg5NhI&feature=channel

game 3 clowsui http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXOADGxgyFo&feature=channel

3 dollar mm vs clowsui, tourney sets vs os and wang.

I was a falco bounty hunter the past few weeks! Beat the three best in my area. The set vs the best one wasn't recorded though :(. My set with overswarm is long and you should watch it. Game 3 vs clowsui he goes marth instead of falco.
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
Loved the falco ****,hated the rob matches =/
You played much too slow vs rob,robs a naturally campy char and overswarm has no problem playing gay.when I have tourny matches vs hugs I try to keep the matches between 3.5-5 minutes.you can't let rob camp or he can reset situations too easily and just out gay you.
Good job tho ill be postin my vids soon

edit:

tourny vids of me (got 4th,lost to rich brown :-/ )

vs alb
gw 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUOtYvNS9w
marth 2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb9QF9d3inI

vs spike
falco 1 -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXVAaqALQo
falco 2 -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OzeFrfG774
 

andre768

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
1
I'll get to some of these when I get home guys. Love the thread attention though. :)

This is GMD on friends account btw.
 

GooseMainsDiddy

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
731
COUNT:

As the other guy said, you should have played ROB more aggressively. If you try to play passive against him you will feel the receiving end of all the spam and camp. It's actually a very complex matchup for Diddy as you will never really know how to get around his tactics. Go aggro and don't give him the breathing room he desperately craves.

Falco is another complex matchup for us. It is also one of the most controversial 55:45 matchups we have. You got a lucky break the first half of the first Falco match but when he learned what to do he got 2 stocks down on you. Imagine if you played a Falco who knew what to do from the get go. Torture. This is where Diddy's non-banana game comes in. Naners should be used sparingly in this matchup which is why it's such a pain to play; See if you can find some videos around here. You are going to have to see it to figure it out for yourself.

Oh, almost all of Falco's non-lazar approaches can be rendered useless with smart naner play. this is why Falcos tend rely on spam. You have to see it from thier perspective. ;)
 

Count

Smash Champion
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Nanerless is not the way to go vs falco! I'm actually very good against falco as far as matchup wise, I was mainly looking for ROB matchup help/personal habits I need to break. The only way I lose to falcos around here is CG to spike..if you don't have a banana vs falco, falco's moveset is flat out better than diddys. Against falco you can bait the reflector by dribbling or throwing a banana up then latching on for the hump, its so hard to bait the reflector with no nana. And you can't punish his awful recovery with bananas as well either, imo

edit: And I dunno which falco match you're talking about, but if its vs wangston I've played like 3 sets with him now so he should know what to do by now!

and tell me what I do that is predictable/bad! All you said was 'learn falco' which I already know how to do! And 'pressure rob' isn't helpful either, especially one as knowledgeable as OS..I don't think AZ has beaten OS rob in a set yet and I consider him the best pressure diddy =/

Don't mean to seem harsh but all this advice seemed really straightforward/obvious
 

Gnes

Smash Master
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In Another Dimension...
Ill say a little more later after i finish all this homework.

As for OS, make him approach u. Get the lead and keep it. I know u feel compelled to not play gay, but all ROB is going to do is sit near the ledge and camp. Just get in a quick combo and start air camping, not getting hit by any of his projectiles, and he'll eventually get back on stage. Just make sure hes the one approaching and ull do fine.
 

ChocoNaner

Smash Journeyman
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Well, if it means anything I've fought Holy's Rob like 15 times online. -.-

You can't let Rob edgecamp, use peanuts, throw one of your naners, camp on a platform(s) that will get you out of his lazer and gyro's range, do something. Don't be afraid to sub grabs with tilts(mainly Dtilt), sometimes when OS would trip in front of you, you'd go for the grab and miss, and using Dtilt(s) would've hit him. Don't try to punish Rob's Fsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt, Bair, or grab nanerless, Dsmash yes(shieldgrab). Fair is awesome as an edgeguarding move, comes out faster than his Nair and trades hits or cancels out with his Fair. DO NOT throw him back or forward then pluck a naner or you get punished with his jectiles, Uthrow is fine. Pummel more, and use Uair more too.

Yes. :I Dunno the falco mu, and didn't watch the vids soooo...yeah...Rob exp. ftw
 

Overswarm

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As for OS, make him approach u. Get the lead and keep it. I know u feel compelled to not play gay, but all ROB is going to do is sit near the ledge and camp. Just get in a quick combo and start air camping, not getting hit by any of his projectiles, and he'll eventually get back on stage. Just make sure hes the one approaching and ull do fine.
Greatness has the right of it. Goose would probably get 3 stocked by a good ROB.

It's unfortunate that you normally play vs. me Count, as most ROBs would say "oh, he powershielded 17 lasers, I'll get back on the stage now" while I will continue to fire lasers and time you out.

The reason I was able to beat you without feeling much pressure is you would get the standard Diddy combos and huge-*** ROB and have tons of damage while I'm hoping to get a lucky gimp (cuz that's how ROB rolls).

The Diddy / ROB matchup goes like this:

Step 1. ROB gimps Diddy and gets a stock lead and/or Diddy deals 40-80% from a combo or two because ROB is huge and has blind spots

Step 2a. ROB camps, and Diddy loses his large lead through a ton of chip damage by not shielding projectiles properly.

Step 2b. (optional) Diddy approaches ROB near the ledge to attempt to get it off, then gets wrecked because that's what ROB wants.

Step 2c. (optional) Diddy shoot peanuts out of desperation. ROB uses this opportunity to hit you with a fully charged gyro, dealing 20% to you, or he air dodge and catches a peanut. He is now able to glide toss to approach you, potentially wrecking your life.

Step 2d. (optional) Diddy throws bananas out of desperation. ROB uses this opportunity to hit you with a fully charged gyro, dealing 20% to you, or he air dodge and catches a nanner. He is now able to glide toss to approach you, potentially wrecking your life in addition to having one of your bananas. Generally, ROB just keeps the banana and continues to spam all day.


Step 3. ????

Step 4. PROFIT


No Diddy I've seen knows what Step 3 is. They've all just done variations of steps 2a-2d, and it generally doesn't end well. The ROB doesn't even have to think, just mix it up now and then and the Diddy has a reeeeeeally hard time doing anything.

When I first played AZ and he started getting around my gimp traps, I'd start camping at 0%. THAT is a long game; we went to time a lot. That's not good for Diddy, because ROB has more reliable kill options from any point in the stage and if you get too aggressive you get gimped.

Pressure Diddy has never worked against ROB. It looks like it does because ROB is a huge target and is easy to combo at lower %, but it always ends with a ROB fairing a few times then bairing you out of your up+b and you think he just got lucky.

Diddy vs. ROB is a crappy matchup for Diddy.

I've been playing Diddy for a while, and honestly my advice to anyone playing this matchup is to simply play with one banana or get in the habit of throwing an extra banana off stage so ROB can't get it. You're a lot more mobile this way and able to keep up a pressure game without the game sweeping out of your favor. Many a match vs. a Diddy has my ROB suddenly gained control of one banana, thrown a gyro, then has two bananas and a gyro on the stage and gets to go to town on Diddy.

Don't try to punish Rob's Fsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt, Bair, or grab nanerless, Dsmash yes(shieldgrab).
You can punish f-tilt OoS if it is powershielded. ROB's f-tilt is commonly powershielded because the opening frames last just long enough to allow you to shield on reaction, and a lot of people just naturally powershield it. If you do, dash attack.
 

FelixTrix

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Falco used to be really gay and hard for me, but I learned the matchup and now he's pretty easy. The main thing to do in the falco matchup is to try and get an early lead without getting grabbed. If you get grabbed, it's like free 50%, but the CG - spike should never kill you if you can SDI and tech the spike back onto the stage. (hella easy. ;D)

Once I get the lead, I pull a banana and start crawling back and forth. His lowest Short hop laser will not hit you. He will have to start using lasers on the ground to hit you, which is easy to both see and punish. If he trys to side b you, shield hella quick and glidetoss towards him and you get a free dash attack or grab. If he approaches while you crawl back and forth, press the cstick forward to do a dtilt regardless of if you're moving. If he tries to side b, shield it and diddy hump him.

I also realized that diddy has the best tools for gimping falco besides mk. use peanuts to try and waste his jumps, and throw a banana to predict the side b. This matchup is really campy, but it isn't hard at all. Side b is probably one of the best moves to use in the matchup btw.
 

Gnes

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Haha thanks for the nod of approval OS. I've played against Sudai alot(well for a weekend :p, dont know if u know him)and i pretty much noticed about everything u just said. Pressure does not work against ROB considering u have to be on stage to pressure a chr., ROB will not be on stage for majority of the match. Its all about patience. Its hard but we have to deal with it. Sudai camps the freaking entire match, until I got the lead. Then it was easy. ROB's not too hot at approaching.

Honestly with the godforsaken ledgecamping and stuff i think its in ROB's favor, but whatever.

Felix, firstly, if a falco spaces the grabs right u wont have enough room to di towards the stage and tech. Secondly, his perfect laser can hit diddy while crawling. Sethlon has done it to me plenty of times.
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
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Nanerless is not the way to go vs falco! I'm actually very good against falco as far as matchup wise, I was mainly looking for ROB matchup help/personal habits I need to break. The only way I lose to falcos around here is CG to spike..if you don't have a banana vs falco, falco's moveset is flat out better than diddys. Against falco you can bait the reflector by dribbling or throwing a banana up then latching on for the hump, its so hard to bait the reflector with no nana. And you can't punish his awful recovery with bananas as well either, imo

edit: And I dunno which falco match you're talking about, but if its vs wangston I've played like 3 sets with him now so he should know what to do by now!

and tell me what I do that is predictable/bad! All you said was 'learn falco' which I already know how to do! And 'pressure rob' isn't helpful either, especially one as knowledgeable as OS..I don't think AZ has beaten OS rob in a set yet and I consider him the best pressure diddy =/

Don't mean to seem harsh but all this advice seemed really straightforward/obvious
Against ROB:


Don't be afraid to go offstage against him, it's not a guaranteed gimp like most of the ROB boards tend to believe when they land a fair.


When he is above you, TAKE ADVANTAGE. It's going to take you a while to get used to his nair/bair hitboxes, but once you do it'll be cake.


Learn to DI out of the dsmash. It may get you punished with another dsmash/some tilts or something SOMETIMES, but that's better than being placed in perfect juggling position (above ROB).


DO NOT try to dair ROB when off of the stage until he's at roughly 90+ as he can and will recover otherwise (he has the best meteor canceling capabilities in the game, hands down ><)


Take the top whenever it's just lying on the ground (easiest to dash attack to pick it up, but you'll get used to just standing next to it to do so with time) and smash throw it up! It takes about 4 seconds for that thing to come back down, and that's 4 seconds where ROB only has his laser to rely on for camping.


Get those popgun arcs going when he's trying to ledgecamp you, it halts him from harassing you from the ledge pretty effectively, and if you've got a naner in your hand you can lead it into a GT > **** :)


When a ROB zones you with his top, throw naners at it. As you've probably noticed, it causes the top to slide, placing it where it's least likely to bother you is usually your best bet ;)


One little tidbit about the top: if it's sitting on a hill and you're running DOWN HILL, you absolutely can not pick it up with your dash attack. You will run into it and take damage before doing so, so don't even try it.


@OS- if you're going to No Koast, I'd like to MM you :D
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
168
My vids aren't with ppl as good as counts but there still vids and my diddy is still sexy so u guys should watch em anyway lol
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
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@Lazee- Just from watching a few minutes of your vid against the Marth, I noticed that you REALLY like to first- roll directly behind someone, then roll back in front of them.

You missed a few opportunities to use your usmash when he was directly behind you and already initiating an attack (vulnerable) maybe due to you just not using the smash too often? You really should use it, though its hitbox is pretty small and it's laggy if whiffed, that just forces you to learn not to whiff it, eh? ;)

Another thing is you neglected to edgehog him on his first stock, that ended up costing you 67% on your first stock! You've just gotta remember that against characters like Marth or other fairly gimpable characters, you can utilize this to your advantage and get in some early kills (swaying momentum in your favor, and killing your opponent's spirits ;D)

One last tip would be to not use your dsmash too often until they're at kill percents (Marth is roughly 140% if its fresh :p)

gl in future tourneys!
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
Yeah those vids are from like 2 months ago but I been forgetting to upload lol.
My habits r much cleaner and I'm top or 2nd best diddy in socal now
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
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Yeah those vids are from like 2 months ago but I been forgetting to upload lol.
My habits r much cleaner and I'm top or 2nd best diddy in socal now
Good ****! Just saw you wanted somebody to critique you what with everyone talking about Count's matches ;P Tell Mike I say what's up and that we can touch ***** at Pound 4 =D
 

Overswarm

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21,181
Against ROB:


Don't be afraid to go offstage against him, it's not a guaranteed gimp like most of the ROB boards tend to believe when they land a fair.
PLEASE do this count. I'd really like it if our sets were exactly 60 seconds long in the future.

Don't go off stage vs. ROB unless it's for a single hit KO with a fair, and even then only if you can get back with JUST an over-b... and that's still really dangerous. ROB can do a falling u-air to tap you out of whatever you're doing if he sees you coming and then destroy you without returning to the stage. If you're silly enough to let ROB go under/over you without having to do anything, you're probably about to lose a stock.


When he is above you, TAKE ADVANTAGE. It's going to take you a while to get used to his nair/bair hitboxes, but once you do it'll be cake.
^Listen^

ROB has a blindspot. Diddy can't punish very well, but he can get some chip damage in.

Learn to DI out of the dsmash. It may get you punished with another dsmash/some tilts or something SOMETIMES, but that's better than being placed in perfect juggling position (above ROB).
Don't listen. DIing out of the d-smash gets you d-tilted, grabbed, d-smashed, or some combination thereof. Guaranteed, 100% of the time, unless the ROB messes up hitting down on the c-stick really fast. Your best bet is to take the hit and go the direction you want to go (left, right, or straight up).

DO NOT try to dair ROB when off of the stage until he's at roughly 90+ as he can and will recover otherwise (he has the best meteor canceling capabilities in the game, hands down ><)
You can't kill ROB with a spike period. If he holds up and hits b really fast, it's an automatic meteor cancel. I survive Falco dairs at 200+% by just mashing up+b. It totally stops all momentum.

Take the top whenever it's just lying on the ground (easiest to dash attack to pick it up, but you'll get used to just standing next to it to do so with time) and smash throw it up! It takes about 4 seconds for that thing to come back down, and that's 4 seconds where ROB only has his laser to rely on for camping.
Don't do this all the time; just when you really have the opening to do so. Throwing it up is a good option to get rid of it, but keep in mind a classic ROB strategy is to throw their own top up, do whatever they need to do, catch it on the way down, then continue their combo out of a glide toss. ROB will approach when you have the gyro because you can't do anything when you have it, and if you throw it up and he times it correctly he can do some serious damage. So... careful.

Get those popgun arcs going when he's trying to ledgecamp you, it halts him from harassing you from the ledge pretty effectively, and if you've got a naner in your hand you can lead it into a GT > **** :)
This isn't true in the slightest. Again, if you hit me with a peanut you've done nothing to me, while I can hit you with a fully charged gyro. Or, alternatively, I can air dodge to catch a peanut, land on the stage, then continue to spam until you stop throwing peanuts. Then I have an easy glide toss for mobility, my gyro, my laser, and I can go back to the ledge. Peanuts are bad against ledge camping ROB and will get you owned.

When a ROB zones you with his top, throw naners at it. As you've probably noticed, it causes the top to slide, placing it where it's least likely to bother you is usually your best bet ;)
ROBs throw their gyro in front of them. If you hit it with a banana, you're throwing it BACK to him. The only way this would be useful is if the gyro was behind you or behind ROB. If it is behind ROB, he made it that way and doesn't care. If it is behind you, leave it alone.

One little tidbit about the top: if it's sitting on a hill and you're running DOWN HILL, you absolutely can not pick it up with your dash attack. You will run into it and take damage before doing so, so don't even try it.
Also not true. Just have to time the dash attack properly. If for some reason you're on a hill, just air dodge on top of the banana.


@OS- if you're going to No Koast, I'd like to MM you :D
It's possible. If you could get me off the ledge we might have a real match. I still have a plethora of Diddy tricks I haven't had the opportunity to use because no Diddy has been able to successfully pressure me off the ledge... nothing but chip damage or a random lucky fair at best, so I always win out.

Good luck. ;)
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
Double post >.<
Robs hard,knowin the matchup makes it much easier tho.
Hardest time I have is with...hmm for me its peach as my worst,stupid **** is annoying and socal is full of peaches
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
**** mike,he took my 2nd place away at a recent tourny =/
Naw he's the homie he's just too good now -.-
I'm havin a smashfest today ima get as many vids as I can
Definitely gonna have vids vs dehf and maybe richbrown not sure if he's coming.
 

Overswarm

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May 4, 2005
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I've only been messing around with Diddy so I'm not a wealth of information on the character, but I know spacing f-tilts is pretty ridiculous against a floating Peach. She comes in with a dair, you take 2% and she gets knocked away!


Hopefully my Diddy improves enough to where I can use him in a tournament sometime, I really enjoy playing him
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 26, 2009
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168
He's fun as **** to play imo.
Yeah I figured out the matchup now but god is it annoying she's never on the ground.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
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after watching those count vs. OS matches I have one questin for you count.

Every time you had a percent lead and he took the edge what the **** were you doing? YOu were just...sitting there right in front of him kind of letting him chip damage away at you until he caught up. When you have the percent lead or stock you have no need to put up with that bull ****. Run to the other side of the stage and make him come to you because he either has the option of sitting on the ledge and not hitting you, leaving you in the lead or for him to get off and come to you where you should have the advantage and beat him.
 

Overswarm

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after watching those count vs. OS matches I have one questin for you count.

Every time you had a percent lead and he took the edge what the **** were you doing? YOu were just...sitting there right in front of him kind of letting him chip damage away at you until he caught up. When you have the percent lead or stock you have no need to put up with that bull ****. Run to the other side of the stage and make him come to you because he either has the option of sitting on the ledge and not hitting you, leaving you in the lead or for him to get off and come to you where you should have the advantage and beat him.
Kind of. Last Diddy that happened to I just kept hitting with lasers while he was on the ledge. ROB can hit you with lasers from anywheres XD

but yeah, you've got the right idea
 

Lazee

Smash Apprentice
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Jan 26, 2009
Messages
168
Relax nappy he was prolly caught in the heat of the battle lol
 

Count

Smash Champion
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St. Louis, Missouri
Yeah I 'm not really sure what I was doing. When I jumped around platforms on BF I tended to get hit and I have had bad experiences in the past vs OS trying to plank on the ledge. I just have a hard time getting back on the stage. But I was being stupid, no question.
 

FelixTrix

Smash Journeyman
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WA
Felix, firstly, if a falco spaces the grabs right u wont have enough room to di towards the stage and tech. Secondly, his perfect laser can hit diddy while crawling. Sethlon has done it to me plenty of times.
Nah man, you can SDI tech from any place during his spike. If he tries to go too far out, he'll miss the spike. You just need to get hella inputs of SDI during the moment he spikes you and you can get back on the stage... as long as you're doing it right. ;P

Also, Falco's perfect laser will only hit diddy crawling if you switch directions during the crawl when it hits you. If you crawl back and forth and watch when he shoots the lasers, you won't get hit.
 
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