metashinryu
Smash Ace
thanks man good info O_O
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Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread
- Thread starter MEXICAN
- Start date
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
I've got a money match with Kage at Genesis, i'll try to get it recorded for you guys. I'm not so hot on vs ganon, but i'll do my best. If any of you will be at Genesis, you guys should check it out. I'm going to try to get money matches against a lot of pro players and get them recorded. If you guys want to see me play anyone or any character in particular, let me know and i'll try a money match against them. Try not to bankrupt me though. lol
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darkrain
m2k (preferably his marth or sheik, i'd like to see how playing against the best marth/sheik would affect your views on the DK match-up vs. them)
mango (idk if he'll use jiggly in a mm, but he's the best puff LOL)
dashizwiz or some other good falco?
chudat (ic's)
if you see any well-known mid-tier mains there a few vids vs. them wouldn't hurt either
m2k (preferably his marth or sheik, i'd like to see how playing against the best marth/sheik would affect your views on the DK match-up vs. them)
mango (idk if he'll use jiggly in a mm, but he's the best puff LOL)
dashizwiz or some other good falco?
chudat (ic's)
if you see any well-known mid-tier mains there a few vids vs. them wouldn't hurt either
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
M2K, i'll try. Mango i can probably get. Dashizwiz will probably **** the **** out of me being that its falco and he's probably the best falco player right now, but sure, why not? Chudat, i'll try as well. I don't have a problem with any of these people, it might be tough getting them to break away for mm's though
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i dunno, it's usually been my experience that most pros won't mind an MM if you ask while they're doing friendlies, i'm just not sure if they'd enjoy moving to a tv with a VCR or waiting for you to set one up
M2k will definitely take your MM, though. I've never seen him refuse one unless he had to leave
and yeah i don't expect you to beat dsw but it'd be cool to see how you handle the best falco around XD
M2k will definitely take your MM, though. I've never seen him refuse one unless he had to leave
and yeah i don't expect you to beat dsw but it'd be cool to see how you handle the best falco around XD
Oracle
Smash Master
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
That depends. There are a lot of people that can cg fox just as well on final d, and they're probably better matchups. Marth or peach for instance. However, only problem with that is that EVERYBODY knows how to fight marth, and peach, maybe not so much, but she's a tough character to be good with. DK, however, nobody knows how to fight, and is pretty easy to get the basics down with, he's not very technical, but he's not nearly as good against fox as marth or peach are. So it's a trade off. Lack of experience for lack of straight up character matchups.
......But winning with DK is a lot more fun than winning with marth or peach. lol
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i dunno, Mex, leaving a tournament with more money than you went there with is pretty appealing.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I second this statement. My friend and I were hopping around the cast in Melee the other day and I settled on DK. I had the time of my life with cargo combos. His poor Roy didn't stand a chance.
lol
Smooth Criminal
otg
Smash Master
I would say.... two years ago people didn't know how to fight DK. Times have changed, a Fox that camps and doesn't mess up his tech molests a good DK, even on FD.
Don't get grabbed.
Don't get grabbed.
Oracle
Smash Master
Well yeah I just like DK better. And besides, really only marth is easier to consistently zero to death them
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
I wouldn't say so..Most fox players i play don't know what they're doing and don't know DK's possibilities. That might also be because i use a lot of techniques and methods that Bum didn't and because he and myself have a very different playstyle. I dunno...i'm pretty much confident against any fox
otg
Smash Master
Except KFC lol jk jk. But seriously though, I'm not ****ting on you at all mexican, you ****. But I don't see you doing anything new or innovative that I haven't seen before. At least here on the EC people don't take **** from DK anymore. Bum ***** for awhile, but after his apperance at MLG he was getting beat up by random nobodies.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
man which is the best edgeguard WITH dk?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
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Probably bair. Or Spinning Kong.
otg
Smash Master
or a combination of both 
but mostly spinning kong.
but mostly spinning kong.
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actually a lot of players recover high, so b-air is used more often, for me at least.
i use b-up against fox & falco mainly.
i use b-up against fox & falco mainly.
Well, it's either recover high, get b.air'd and everybody is like "Oh DK made a good read". Or you recover low, get the side-b, and everybody's like "Ooof... you remember THAT guy?" XD
I'm completely kidding btw.
I'm completely kidding btw.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
lol, you're asking too general of questions. You have to give me specific characters... A fox recovering low and a peach recovering high are two very different things. There's no one move that works in every edgeguard situation against every character. Give me specific character and we'll start from there
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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Also replace the "man" with "10char".
metashinryu
Smash Ace
ok pu whuch is the best edgeguard with dk on falcon,i wanna know with what he can pop the **** outta me XD
oh and elvenarrow3000 i didnt understand the 10char thing -_-
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
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It was a joke. 10char is what people say at the end of their posts when their post wasn't long enough by itself, and I was just poking fun at the fact that you say man at the beginning of your posts a lot.
DK on Falcon... dtilt works. Intercepting with bairs or Spinning Kongs also work. Giant Punch, maybe.
DK on Falcon... dtilt works. Intercepting with bairs or Spinning Kongs also work. Giant Punch, maybe.
otg
Smash Master
If Falcon is recovering high, Bair is the obvious solution. A lot of the time, a Falcon will make it seem like he's going for the middle of the stage to bait an attack from you, and than back off and slide to the ledge. Lucky enough for you, DK is ****ing huge so if you predict this, your Bair should still take him out.
His recovery is very predictable and linear, so if he is coming from underneath the stage, UpB ***** him. If you knock him out very far, and he has enough time to use Falcon Kick to recover, jump on out to him and UpB his ***. He can't really defend himself on his way back, so just space yourself out right and you should be ok.
His recovery is very predictable and linear, so if he is coming from underneath the stage, UpB ***** him. If you knock him out very far, and he has enough time to use Falcon Kick to recover, jump on out to him and UpB his ***. He can't really defend himself on his way back, so just space yourself out right and you should be ok.
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basically b-air fsmash and d-tilt against falcon. falcon's up-b doesn't have the priority that firefox has so you don't really need to resort to up-b against him.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
If falcon is trying to recover high and mindgame you on his way down, what i do is use the n air. The back part will set him up perfectly for a b air to come right afterward. It also has a hitbox for a longer period of time and overall has a bigger hitbox than his b air since his whole body is basically the hitbox. That's just me though
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
Another random tidbit of information, If your opponent is standing on a platform above you, and you go to u air him, and he shields, if he's anywhere near the edge, he'll fall off the platform after having shielded your attack. If you can anticipate this, you can get a free grab off of it even if they shield your attack
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
Do all of DK's aerials autocancel, or just uair? I've decided to learn DK and don't want to get the muscle memory for l-cancels when I could autocancel for less lag.
*looks around*
... no mexican. >.>
Depends on when you do them.
Like, if you do a SH b.air on the way up, it will autocancel. But if you do one on the way down, you'll have to L cancel. You'll always have to l cancel a n.air, same thing with SH F.air, etc etc.
Some stuff does autocancel, but unless you go out of your way to limit yourself so you dont have to L cancel, you're going to have to.
... no mexican. >.>
Depends on when you do them.
Like, if you do a SH b.air on the way up, it will autocancel. But if you do one on the way down, you'll have to L cancel. You'll always have to l cancel a n.air, same thing with SH F.air, etc etc.
Some stuff does autocancel, but unless you go out of your way to limit yourself so you dont have to L cancel, you're going to have to.
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what? lol you aren't going to get anywhere if you don't l-cancel... yeah u-air autocancels but you need to learn to l-cancel if you want to be able to play the game without getting *****.
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
I believe you have misunderstood my question. I do l-cancel. I'm a falcon main, without l-canceling, I'd get nowhere. My question was that if I should bother learning the l-cancel for attacks that can autocancel and be faster. DK and falcon have different l-cancel timings (all characters do) so I couldn't aimlessly press shield when I normally would, and it far more efficient to have something like l-canceling in your muscle memory so you don't have to actively think about the timing every time you do it. Which would be the alternative. Yet if I can autocancel in muscle memory, rather than l-cancel, and cut down to only 4 frames of lag, it would make my DK far faster than say the 12 frames of lag from a needless l-cancel. Sorry to make an unclear post, I will make an effort to reform this in the future.
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you shouldn't have to learn the l-cancel timing for every attack/fall speed in the game, it should come naturally to you after l-canceling in general. it doesn't take long at all to know the falling speed of a char if you shffl stuff.
as for your autocanceling idea, you'd still have to perform the aerial and fast fall as fast as possible if you'd want that. keep in mind that it's also sometimes more advantageous to l-cancel than to autocancel, as waiting in the air for you to land (a delayed full hop bair for example) rather than fast falling and l-canceling could leave you open to attack.
also i've found myself doing falling up-airs because of my opponent's DI or to give me more time to do a Giant Punch while in the midst of a combo.
as for your autocanceling idea, you'd still have to perform the aerial and fast fall as fast as possible if you'd want that. keep in mind that it's also sometimes more advantageous to l-cancel than to autocancel, as waiting in the air for you to land (a delayed full hop bair for example) rather than fast falling and l-canceling could leave you open to attack.
also i've found myself doing falling up-airs because of my opponent's DI or to give me more time to do a Giant Punch while in the midst of a combo.
Faithkeeper
Smash Lord
Good stuff. Thanks for some clarification and I see your points.
Next question:
What kinds of situations would it not be a good idea to upb OOS other than when you can get a sheild grab?
Also, If falco is pillaring my shield, and I see him shine, are either upb or DKs grab fast enough to get him before he dairs again?
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
You only want to up b out of shield if you think you're going to hit them with the sweetspot. I sometimes do it knowing that i won't, but that's usually because i'm either confident that they'll try and dodge or something, and run into anyways, and i at the last second of my up b, i can pull back, out of punishment range. The other case is when i'm close enough to the edge that i can just pull back and grab the ledge where they can't punish me for it either. Other than that, i wouldn't use it out of shield. Either jump away with a b air, jump first and then up b (there are 2 initial hitboxes when you're in the air at the start of your up b), or just cut your losses and try to get yourself in a good position again. Occasionally, shield dashing works, but dk's isn't the best, especially if you light shield.
As for falco, if he's in your sweetspot, yes, your up b is fast enough and WILL outprioritize his d air. That's IF he's in your sweetspot. If he's not, then no, you'll just take the d air. As for shield grabbing, don't waste your time. If it's a halfway decent falco, you're not going to get a shield grab off on him anytime soon. Better off doing a move into a grab, or like i tell everyone else, just get falco to the ground. Once he's there, your chances improve dramatically of getting a kill and/or racking up huge damage
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^about the sheild dashing point: this is incredibly useful with DK. I've gotten grabs on Foxes -> death because of my opponent hitting me with an upsmash in my shield by doing this. You have to really know the shieldstun and the ending lag for their attack if you want to be able to know how to time it and not get ***** for it, though, because as you said, DK's wavedash isn't the best and his shield is even worse.
mexican what would you think about... a lightshield mod for a controller?
it'd ****.
oh yeah mex, are you still working on that DK guide? if you've lost all will to do so I can work on it and just ask you stuff if i ever need it.
mexican what would you think about... a lightshield mod for a controller?
it'd ****.
oh yeah mex, are you still working on that DK guide? if you've lost all will to do so I can work on it and just ask you stuff if i ever need it.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
If you need a lightshield mod, go for it. Although i hear that a lot of tournaments will disqualify you for modding your controller. I personally don't need it, i couldn't regular shield even if i wanted to. I'm so used to lightshielding now, that when i play other characters, i lightshield with them too when it's not needed and only makes things worse for me. And as far as shielddashing up to a fox that just u smashed, i'd be very careful with that. Fox CAN get off a jab/shine before you can grab him if he's expecting it or has good reflexes. It kinda just depends on how your shield is hit and what part of his attack hits your shield.
As far as the guide goes, i haven't really done anything new on it. lol. I'll make it eventually. haha. If you want to make one, go for it. Almost anything is better than the severely outdated one we have now
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:\ I use other characters, so I get messed up w/ my lightsheilding. It'd be cool to have the L button be Light and R be Regular so I could use L for DK and R for... everyone else. LOL I dunno, it was just an idea.
I'll look into the frame data and stuff but if he's going to shine you could just wait for the shine to grab. Most Foxes would shield if they're in the ending lag of an upsmash and you're going toward them, and wd oos -> grab really isn't a common technique. I doubt most players would expect it, let alone be able to counter it in time.
I'll do it. I might have to wait until the summer (school's getting crazeh) but yeah.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
ill make a better Dk guide than all of u!!!!
eat ur bannanas
and 4 stock
eat ur bannanas
and 4 stock
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yea well gtfo kfc
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
JR, what do you think about StrongBad's idea about shieldashing in after an u smash? Lord knows i've tried it a bunch of times against you, but most of the time you f*ck me up when i try. lol
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
well u gotta wavedash in and shield and wait for fox to make a mistake.
bum does this alot against foxes
the fox would usmash bum's shield, bum will wavedash in and shield (waiting) then the fox will get nervous and spotdodge, then bum grabs ^_^
but if the dk just grabs right after he wavedashes in, then he'll get ***** becaues dk's grab is slow
i hope that was easy to understand lol
bum does this alot against foxes
the fox would usmash bum's shield, bum will wavedash in and shield (waiting) then the fox will get nervous and spotdodge, then bum grabs ^_^
but if the dk just grabs right after he wavedashes in, then he'll get ***** becaues dk's grab is slow
i hope that was easy to understand lol