Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

[otg]

wtf happened to this thread? I need to spit more bull**** about Blue DK.

 

[Oracle]

I ****ING LOVE BLUE DK
Him and red DK


Also is it a good idea to train my DK to counterpick foxes and falcos?

 

[MEXICAN]

Ok, I got some vids against pink shinobi recorded. For those of you who don't know who he is (he's not too well known yet), but he is the #1 ranked person in Norcal right now, he's even above Silent Spectre. He's a peach user btw. I got some pretty good matches, but i'll let you guys know right now that they aren't very entertaining to watch. No combos, no real edgeguards, all just mindgames, spacing, and 2 characters that don't die that makes for a long drawn out match each time. I'll try to get them uploaded soon though. Might take awhile. As for the other characters, they might have to wait until I can get to another tournament

I ****ING LOVE BLUE DK
Him and red DK


Also is it a good idea to train my DK to counterpick foxes and falcos?

Falco=DK's #1 worst fight.
Fox=DK's #3 worst fight.
What do you think? lol.
You could if your character (whoever you usually use) is countered even more by these characters. Fox, maybe. Falco, no. Don't counterpick falco using DK...thats just dumb. lol

 

[otg]

If you can beat a space animal with DK than it doesn't matter what character you use.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

So uh. Do we get links for the Peach matches? =D

...who's DK's second worst?

 

[MEXICAN]

So uh. Do we get links for the Peach matches? =D

...who's DK's second worst?

Someone else is actually going to be uploading the matches soon. I thought KFC had them at his house, but someone else took them to upload them. I'll put the links in here as soon as they're uploaded. And sheik is DK's second worst, and peach is probably DK's 4th worst...not sure. I'll have to play more matchups first to truly decide how i feel about that

 

[otg]

DK v. Peach doesn't seem like it should be that bad...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Someone else is actually going to be uploading the matches soon. I thought KFC had them at his house, but someone else took them to upload them. I'll put the links in here as soon as they're uploaded. And sheik is DK's second worst, and peach is probably DK's 4th worst...not sure. I'll have to play more matchups first to truly decide how i feel about that

Hmmm... so is Falcon not as bad as I thought he was?

 

[MEXICAN]

DK v. Peach doesn't seem like it should be that bad...

Well, my reasoning being:

1: You can't really combo peach
2: You can't really edgeguard peach
3: She takes a long time to kill, especially on big stages
4: She can edgeguard you fairly well, her d air into n air ***** DK's recovery and cannot be tech'd
5: In a small area, she is much faster than DK
6: A really good peach player can be just to hard to grab as a fox, and even if you do grab her, you're not tacking on more than a giant punch, if that's even charged, assuming she's at low damages
7: She has a very very good shield pressure game (at least higher level peaches do)
8: With the exception of DK's b air and giant punch, she'll outprioritize you in just about every other encounter. Her f air outprioritizes dk's f air, which is dumb as hell. lol
9: She has a d smash, nuff said
10: Turnips are annoying, especially if that turnip has stitches in its face or is a bobomb

You'd have to play a high level peach to understand. 2 of DK's best aspects are his combos and edgeguarding, both of which mean nothing against peach

 

[otg]

I've played against high level peaches, just not with ****ing DK lol you serious son? I already know all the things you listed, I just didn't think she was the 4th hardest out of all his matchups. I feel IC/Y.Link/Marth could all be candidates for harder, but maybe that's just me.

*Y.Link in particular is a ***** and a half. All of his projectiles turn you around, it's a pain to get through it. You are also a huge target so projectile combos into dair is ****. He can edgeguard you really well and you really can't combo him out of throws. I dunno, he's **** tough.

 

[MEXICAN]

I've played against high level peaches, just not with ****ing DK lol you serious son? I already know all the things you listed, I just didn't think she was the 4th hardest out of all his matchups. I feel IC/Y.Link/Marth could all be candidates for harder, but maybe that's just me.

*Y.Link in particular is a ***** and a half. All of his projectiles turn you around, it's a pain to get through it. You are also a huge target so projectile combos into dair is ****. He can edgeguard you really well and you really can't combo him out of throws. I dunno, he's **** tough.

IC's possibly, y link or marth, no, they're not harder than peach. Y link can be annoying, especially at smaller stages, but at a larger stage, he's not too bad. He only has 2 real KO moves, the d smash and d air. The d air is pretty easy to avoid, even after a projectile. His best KO move is his d smash, which hits you out horizontally, but luckily for us, DK is pro at recovering horizontally. In that matchup, you just have to b air a lot and charge your giant punch constantly. Giant punch ***** y link. I played Chudats y link and I had no problems. You also won't run into many y links anyways.

Ic's are tough because one grab can equal death and DK's not known for being able to avoid being grabbed, however, IC's have a very hard time getting passed DK's b air spam. That mixed with the fact that you can kill nana by jumping off and throwing her forward, the fact that down b ***** ic's approach, and that a giant punch just about always will hit at least nana give DK a fighting chance, but i'll agree, it is a really bad matchup.

Top 5 would probably be Falco, sheik, fox, peach, and IC's, even if not in that order, they all **** DK

 

[otg]

I only list Y.Link because he can be a huge *****. Play against a campy one and try getting a hit in. I've spent entire stocks just trying to get close, and by the time I get a hit in or a grab in I'm at some ******** percents because of bombs. What guaranteed KO setups does DK have on Y.Link?

Edgeguards are a 50/50, you can beat out the hookshot if he does it high enough, but if he recovers low with it, it's not as safe to UpB him.

Maybe not his top 5 hardest, but certainly a tough one.

 

[Strong Badam]

being an annoying matchup doesn't mean ****. marth and ganon are relatively even despite the fact that it's a very odd match-up for marth.

it's tough, but it's not against DK at all if you play it right. spam b-air, be smart, weave in and out of his projectiles, and smash DI his stupid bomb -> d-air ****.

 

[otg]

All of his projectiles make you face him automatically, so you can't try to space him out with bairs if all he does is camp and force you to approach.

 

[Strong Badam]

All of his projectiles make you face him automatically, so you can't try to space him out with bairs if all he does is camp and force you to approach.

it's tough, but it's not against DK at all if you play it right. spam b-air, be smart, weave in and out of his projectiles, and smash DI his stupid bomb -> d-air ****.

i've played some pretty good Y Link's before, it's 50/50 at worst. mex beating chudat's Y link is also pretty good proof lol.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, I feel like as long as you bair to get through his nair and time your attacks/space yourself so that you hit him during the startup lag of his attacks, you should be okay.

 

[otg]

........... you guys don't listen huh? When DK gets in close it's not that big a deal, you can bair through most of his stuff and apply pressure to him up close so he can't use his gay projectile game. But DK is a slow ****, and I've literally fought Y.Link's who do nothing but run away and throw bombs at you. How do you deal with that, when they won't let you even get close?

Yeah at some point in time, he will have to get close to you to get a KO, but if you've barely done any damage to him in relation to what he's done to you, you have to be super efficient at ****** when he gets in close. Anytime you approach Y.Link or he approaches you, it increases his chances of taking damage/getting combo'd edgeguarded, so why the **** would he come in close to you unless he wants to lose?

 

[Dogysamich]

AWWW YEAH, TIME TO BACKHAND PEOPLE WITH MORE STATS!

Running Speed

a ">" means that the character to the left of the ">" ACCELERATES to his/her top speed QUICKER than the character to the right of the ">"

a "=" means the two or three characters between the "=" have the same exact acceleration.

Note: Acceleration was measured with the BUNNY HOOD on, no matter how small and impossible-to-tell the difference (as long as one of my 10000 tests showed a difference than I put the difference down in this list)

1) Captain Falcon
2) Fox
3-5) Sheik > Pikachu > Marth
6) Pichu
7-10) Young Link > Roy > Yoshi > DK
11-15) Falco > Dr. Mario = Mario > Mr. Game & Watch > Bowser
16-20) Samus > Kirby = Mewtwo > Ice Climbers > Ness
21) Ganondorf
22) Luigi
23-24) Link > Peach
25-26) Jigglypuff > Zelda

Jumping Speed - Jumping speed is how long it takes to do a jump from the ground. Every aerial jump (a.k.a. 2nd jump) takes 1 frame (starts instantaneously), as it's proven by the Screw Attack weapon, which hits anything nearby the EXACT INSTANT the character with the Screw Attack item jumps. Also, characters jump slower when they're big (Giant Melee and/or with a Super Mushroom) and they jump faster from the ground when they're small (Tiny Melee and/or with a Poison Mushroom)

Also please note that [for example] Fox (4 frames jumping speed) is in the AIR on frame 4+, so that means that the jumping ANIMATION (frames on the ground) is 3 frames for Fox.

---For more information on jumping speed go here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...183#post651183

4 frames - Fox / Ice Climbers / Kirby / Pichu / Pikachu / Samus / Sheik

5 frames - Captain Falcon / Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario / Marth / Mr. Game & Watch / Ness / Young Link

6 frames - DK / Falco / Jigglypuff / Mewtwo / Peach / Roy / Yoshi

7 frames - Ganondorf / Link / Zelda

-

9 frames - Bowser

I cant find (read: dont have if it exists) a stat for jumping distance, but it's not like it's anything horrid (i think it's standard).

So really, all DK has against him is him being a large(r) target. He's literally faster than half the cast.

I'd imagine that you just have to actually work in chunks instead of trying to 10-yard-fight that **** in on y.link. That's how you do it with anybody else. >.>

(i mean come on otg, dk's faster than doc!)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Tsk, Dogy. Gotta figure stuff out yourself.

Horizontal Aerial Falling Distance - shows how far a character can travel in the air over a certain amount of distance. It can be technically calculated with the formula: Horizontal Aerial Moving Speed <divided by> Falling Speed, but since we can't measure that in exact numbers, I had to do it by testing it with every character.

1) Jigglypuff
2) Mewtwo
3) Peach
4) Zelda
5-6) Samus / Yoshi
7) Mr. Game & Watch
8) Dr. Mario
9) Ness
10) Mario
11) Kirby
12-13) Link / Young Link
14-16) Ice Climbers / Pichu / Pikachu
17) Luigi
18-20) Bowser / DK / Marth
21) Ganondorf
22-23) Captain Falcon / Roy
24) Sheik
25) Fox
26) Falco

Donkey Kong's shorthop time is 33 frames. Young Link's is 31 frames. Tada.

 

[Dogysamich]

horizontal. Man I hate that word. For some odd reason i see that and think vertical. And when I see vertical I think vertical.

*laughs*

I was looking for jumping distance

-insert more johns-
__

My point in all this is that people always make DK out to be ridiculously slow when in all actuality he's really not, he's just a big target.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Hm, agreed.

 

[Strong Badam]

........... you guys don't listen huh? When DK gets in close it's not that big a deal, you can bair through most of his stuff and apply pressure to him up close so he can't use his gay projectile game. But DK is a slow ****, and I've literally fought Y.Link's who do nothing but run away and throw bombs at you. How do you deal with that, when they won't let you even get close?

don't get hit.

you're assuming that it's impossible for DK to dodge about 95% of Y. Link's projectiles, when it is. it's possible to dodge Falco's lasers, so it's definitely possible to dodge Y. Link's relatively slow bombs and boomerang.

this all depends on Y. Link's play-style, as well. this isn't brawl, so less than 1% of players would actually camp as hardcore as you've been describing. try to get some more experience with the match-up and perhaps your views will change about it, I too at first thought that Y. Link completely ***** DK, before I got some experience.

and if Y. Link is really giving you that much trouble, counterpick a small stage like Yoshi's Story so he can't run away so much, or just use a better character. lol.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

counterpick a small stage like Yoshi's Story so he can't run away so much, or just use a better character. lol.

this guy speaks the truth!

 

[MEXICAN]

........... you guys don't listen huh? When DK gets in close it's not that big a deal, you can bair through most of his stuff and apply pressure to him up close so he can't use his gay projectile game. But DK is a slow ****, and I've literally fought Y.Link's who do nothing but run away and throw bombs at you. How do you deal with that, when they won't let you even get close?

Yeah at some point in time, he will have to get close to you to get a KO, but if you've barely done any damage to him in relation to what he's done to you, you have to be super efficient at ****** when he gets in close. Anytime you approach Y.Link or he approaches you, it increases his chances of taking damage/getting combo'd edgeguarded, so why the **** would he come in close to you unless he wants to lose?

Do what I do, run away and charge your giant punch. He'll move close enough to get you in range of his attacks. You just gotta get over and other his attacks. It's very stage dependent. I played ChuDats y link on final d, and all i did was spam b airs and giant punches. You gotta kinda feel out his attacks and movements. This matchup, it's really hard to really explain how to approach it. I can tell you one thing for sure, don't approach on the ground or in your shield, you'll just get ***** that way. DK's really not that slow that he can't get around y links attacks. Y link is annoying, but nothing that DK can't handle

 

[choknater]

DK can't handle Toon Link, however.

 

[Strong Badam]

Toon Link can't handle the better game, though, so DK auto-wins.

 

[MEXICAN]

DK can't handle Toon Link, however.

Yet another random post by Andre just to get his post count up. lol.

 

[otg]

Thanks for the advice mexican. Next time I play a good Y.Link I'll keep that in mind... although I hate the thought of both of us just camping lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

pick a different character if you don't want to play a campy match.

or just lose.

 

[metashinryu]

man what are the best edgeguards against dk?

 

[MEXICAN]

man what are the best edgeguards against dk?

You want know how to edgeguard DK? or edgeguard WITH DK? Both depend completely on who the other character is...Give me an example, what character and what stage?

 

[metashinryu]

i play any char(but main falcon) my friend is dk(pissing me off ) on final destination/hyrule temple

 

[otg]

Hyrule temple huh? lol.

Just looked at the all character matchup thread, and It claims that Y.Link beats DK 7-3. Granted the thread is outdated, but it's not like DK's metagame has evolved much since Bum was around in 07... and thats around the time the thread was last updated.

 

[Strong Badam]

That chart was pretty inaccurate when it came to the lower tiers...

Speaking of the match-up chart... Mex, would you have the time to give some values for DK's character match-ups based on your experience in using DK? I'd make a pretty chart to reflect the values, and if you're still working on that DK guide you could include it before going into detail on individual match-ups.

 

[MEXICAN]

Hyrule temple huh? lol.

Just looked at the all character matchup thread, and It claims that Y.Link beats DK 7-3. Granted the thread is outdated, but it's not like DK's metagame has evolved much since Bum was around in 07... and thats around the time the thread was last updated.

Yeah..that matchup list was made by someone who played neither DK, nor Y. Link. It is a bad list to base anything DK related on. If i had any y link players to play, i'd try to record some matches against them, but there honestly aren't any around here. Kizzo was a y link main from this area, but i don't think that he even plays anymore

 

[metashinryu]

man you didnt response, what are good edgeguards against dk?(any char)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Spikes.

And generally just hitting him until he can't come back.

 

[MEXICAN]

man you didnt response, what are good edgeguards against dk?(any char)

If the DK is coming in high, just knee him. If he's trying to sweet spot, try an u tilt. If he's coming in low, just grab the edge yourself and then just roll on and he won't be able to grab it until your roll is completely finished

 

[metashinryu]

thanks man i will try it out XD

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

man you didnt response, what are good edgeguards against dk?(any char)

with fox: dsmash, or angle a ftilt him if he comes from below. if he keeps on teching, just drill him and edgehog really fast.

if he comes above u, its pretty easy to keep him off the stage. and if he manages to land back on the stage, there should be landing lag from his up b so u can just regrab him or usmash

basically, if a dk is using his upb back to the stage, hes dead vs fox.

with marth: dtilt if he comes from below, spike, ftilt, or fsmash (all reach below the stage) tipper a dtilt if hes off with his sweetspotting

be careful when he techs, so dont let the edgeguard pressure off. if he comes from above, just fair him or wait till he lands or air dodges then **** him.

with falcon: look at the first mexican post above mine