Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

[Attila the Hun]

Anyone have any *really* beginner tips for a DK who's just starting?

I'm supposedly a top 5 DK for Brawl, so I understand how to mindgame and read and such, it's more what are some basic things I can do without wavedashing/advanced techs?

I don't own melee, hence why I'm ignoring wavedashing for now.

From what I see, it's mainly cargo juggles (not the greatest at it, but I'll try) and random upb's that ****. I have no clue of the hitbox for that move, lol.

Anyway, thanks for the help if someone does! xD

 

[bubbaking]

Your back will be facing the opponent a lot.

#PrepareToBeRaped

Edit: How are you practicing if you don't own Melee?

Edit 2: Wait a sec! I'm looking at the top 5 Brawl DK list right now. It's Will, Nairo, Neon, Mar1, and ESAM... Where are you on that list? <____<

 

[KirbyKaze]

stuff about Samus

Samus sucks.

GG.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Your back will be facing the opponent a lot.

#PrepareToBeRaped

Edit: How are you practicing if you don't own Melee?

Believe me, I know the back to wall feeling. xD

Ummmm, I get to play once a week or so with friends. xD There's a random melee tourney at a university nearby that I feel like entering, so my buddy is gonna practice with me the day beforehand. xD

Edit: That hasn't been updated in awhile, I've had other DK's tell meeeee. But if you wanna be technical like that, then no, I'm not considered top 5 on a grand scale. Then again, top 5 with DK means nothing because there's really only Will.

Edit deux: Mar has been inactive lately, and no-one knows why ESAM is on there in the first place. The other DK who would be on that list would be S2, but we're in a melee thread talking about Brawl.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, if there are gonna be any decent players at this tourney, then I'm not sure how you're gonna work yourself up to par with in just a day, and while lacking fundamental technical skill, but whatevs...

Luckily, you're playing a char that doesn't really have to L-cancel half the time. DK falls pretty fast in Melee, far too fast for you to get your regular two-bairs-in-one-short-hop. However, if you perform your bair early in the short hop, I believe it should autocancel when you reach the ground, even if you fastfall. Your bair lasts a long time, so it's fine to throw it out early like this. Cargo uthrow > uair is also pretty important, as you observed, and uair is another one of those moves that autocancels, even if you fastfall it. You just have to make sure that you aren't throwing out these moves (bair and uair) too late during your short hop, or you'll land during the hitbox and miss the autocancel.

 

[Beat!]

Just make sure to counterpick Samus for that tricky Sheik matchup and you'll be fine.

 

[bubbaking]

DK also has a pretty good dash dance. I know dash dances are practically non-existent in Brawl, but they're pretty darn useful in Melee, especially when coupled with a character's good grab game. Mix up your neutral game with bairs, dash dances, and grabs. Also, learn the combos you can perform with your cargo throws. Those are a very large part of DK's game, and it isn't all uthrow > uair. There's fthrows, fairs, Giant Punches, the works...

I don't really know what else to tell a new DK such as yourself, especially since I'm not really that good of a DK myself, but I think I covered a lot of the important basics.

 

[Attila the Hun]

DK also has a pretty good dash dance. I know dash dances are practically non-existent in Brawl, but they're pretty darn useful in Melee, especially when coupled with a character's good grab game. Mix up your neutral game with bairs, dash dances, and grabs. Also, learn the combos you can perform with your cargo throws. Those are a very large part of DK's game, and it isn't all uthrow > uair. There's fthrows, fairs, Giant Punches, the works...

I don't really know what else to tell a new DK such as yourself, especially since I'm not really that good of a DK myself, but I think I covered a lot of the important basics.

And I appreciate it.

The only people that I know are good I also play Brawl with, so I'm not expecting to beat them. I'm foreseeing a buncha university scrubs though, and I wouldn't mind working on stuff and gaining experience on them. I have the instincts and stuff, just not the technical skill, so there are times where I can hold my own with my friends who've been playing for quite a while.

 

[NJzFinest]

practice Uair combos (when you short Uair fast fall, u don't need to L-cancel).
master wavedashining and JC grabbing until ur hands hurt

 

[bubbaking]

"Wavedashining"? Is DK Fox now?

 

[Neon!]

Your back will be facing the opponent a lot.

#PrepareToBeRaped

Edit: How are you practicing if you don't own Melee?

Edit 2: Wait a sec! I'm looking at the top 5 Brawl DK list right now. It's Will, Nairo, Neon, Mar1, and ESAM... Where are you on that list? <____<

Attila is a great DK player to my knowledge and could probably replace MAR1 on the forgotten top 5 list...

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz @ namesearch...

 

[Attila the Hun]

Attila is a great DK player to my knowledge and could probably replace MAR1 on the forgotten top 5 list...

Doesn't even matter if I replace Mar, as long as that 5th guy is out. xD

But shucks, Neon. :3

Anyway, in an insane series of events (not really), I picked up a copy of melee. Sadly, the tourney is invite only, so I need someone to vouch for me, so yeah. xD

Wavedashing is super annoying to get consistently. Do you guys normally hold the direction first, or do it with the airdodge after jumping?

 

[Strong Badam]

I input the direction on my control stick during jumpsquat frames.

 

[bubbaking]

You don't want to do anything "after jumping," per se, because it means that you did the WD too slow. Just go into training mode and do it a bunch of times until you get it consistently without seeing the air dodge (AD version is usually called a triangle jump). A nice way to start is to WD in place first (jump up > AD straight down). If you're doing it correctly, you should see your character spontaneously crouching and un-crouching while emitting jump sounds every time they crouch. After that, you can start working on moving around by inputting directions. At this point, go with whatever feels comfortable for you while maintaining consistency.

Edit: If you see the AD, you're inputting it too late after the jump. If you get a jump but nothing after it, you're probably inputting the AD too early, during the jump squat. If you shield/roll instead of jumping or WDing, you're probably trying to transition from jump to AD too quickly and you're not actually pressing the jump button. Just relax and start slow at first. It's OK to see a bit of the AD at first, but as you get better and better, you should start seeing less of the AD so that more of its momentum can actually be put into sliding along the ground.

Edit 2: Another thing you'll want to work on is acting immediately after the WD. Most beginners to the tech make the mistake of ADing correctly only to lose the whole point of the maneuver by holding shield too long from the AD, causing them to WD and shield. You want to be able to move, attack, and do whatever you have to do directly following the AD, so you have to only press the trigger for the instant that you want to WD. This comes by becoming comfortable with the WD so that you can trust in your WD execution and focus on what you want to do afterwards.

 

[Attila the Hun]

At this point, I'm basically just trying to fit in a few WD's after I get a kill, just to get me used to it.

That's good advice though, Bubba. I normally try doing it with direction which is a tad difficult for a beginner.

What I meant by before or after is you can WD by holding the direction, then jumping and air dodging. But I assume most people jump and do the direction and the airdodge? Most of the time I do it too early, so I get the empty hop, haha. I'll prolly practice today, the tourney was moved to Saturday.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, once you get used to it, you'll adjust your timing for your own convenience. I generally do X > direction > R really quickly. Sometimes, I hold the direction before I press X, but that's only when I'm really anticipating something. I usually press the direction after I input jump, 'cause it lets me fit in WD's into more complex maneuvers. For instance, running forwards and WDing back, or WDing during a DD, is usually easier if you jump before you press the direction.

/2 cents

 

[Attila the Hun]

Yeah, once you get used to it, you'll adjust your timing for your own convenience. I generally do X > direction > R really quickly. Sometimes, I hold the direction before I press X, but that's only when I'm really anticipating something. I usually press the direction after I input jump, 'cause it lets me fit in WD's into more complex maneuvers. For instance, running forwards and WDing back, or WDing during a DD, is usually easier if you jump before you press the direction.

/2 cents

I like the advice for wavedashing back while moving forward. I'm finding it easier to hold the direction first still, but maybe I'll grow out of it, haha.

 

[Green Ranger]

Here is me vs cactuar if any of you want to see it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74g1paLh_yE

Looking at the set again, I lucked out really hard. All those SD's...

BTW how are StrongBad and Phish-it doing at ROM? Wrecking face I'm guessing?

 

[Ripple]

dude, you have REALLY leveled up since last I played you. good job.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Jesus, Green Ranger.

<3333333 Awesome.

Smooth Criminal

 

[phish-it]

There was a 3 way tie for 1st seed in pools; I'm probably getting second to Eggm as he one the head to head.

Strong Bad got 2nd or 3rd seed?
Kwan got 3rd seed.


lol nice all or nothing kills Green Ranger

 

[Attila the Hun]

Do 9-winds exist in this game?

In Brawl, winds 6-9 are all stronger (9 being the strongest) than a 10 wind at the cost of no SA frames.

 

[phish-it]

I had to read that 3 times before I could understand what you were saying. There are 10 iterations to Giant Punch charge, the 9th wind is the strongest but I'm pretty sure a full charge is stronger than 8.

 

[bubbaking]

And I don't think Melee has SA on a fully charged punch. Does Melee even have SA at all? It seems like all the instances where Brawl has SA, Melee used to have invincibility instead, like on grabs.

 

[phish-it]

It's 2 frames of invincibility. The only super armor in Melee exists in Yoshi's 2nd jump.

 

[bubbaking]

I see.

There was a 3 way tie for 1st seed in pools; I'm probably getting second to Eggm as he one the head to head.

Eggm went Fox (I don't even know why I'm still hoping for his Mario...)?

 

[Attila the Hun]

So is there ever a reason to use 10 wind over 9? I guess you have a quicker start up?

 

[bubbaking]

Those two frames of startup invincibility that Phish-it mentioned, perhaps? Also, easier execution due to one button press instead of two?

 

[Strong Badam]

i got 2nd seed in my pool (beat everyone in my pool except hax) inc Europhoria & Big Wenz (2-0'd both)

i think both me and phish it got 25th in the bracket, 64-man brackets can be pretty random though. & my set with t webb was pretty close, phish-it will attest. apparently that ***** plays phish-it all the time, so i was doomed =(

phish-it and i ****... dunno which of us **** harder

EDIT: btw I will be using different characters in tournament in the future, but I will also be using DK for some MUs/how I feel.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

sure you do.

 

[bubbaking]

Lookin' more forward to those DK dittos you're supposed to have afterwards.....

 

[Green Ranger]

Good showing from the two of you! I was watching you guys on stream day 2, cheering you on!

SB, any reason for going pikachu against Hax's falcon?


Also phish-it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who are you teaming with for APEX!?!?!??!

 

[Strong Badam]

I had just come back from Five Guys w/ D1, Scar, Prog and a couple others (took like an hr) and they announced that pools were starting. I had no time to warm up, and Hax and I were the players that were starred to go on stream, so I decided to take my set with Hax as an opportunity to warm up, because I wasn't going to beat him no matter which character I chose. Pikachu is the easiest character for me to warm up with, plus I like using Pikachu, and maybe I'd learn some stuff about Pika during the set. And go figure, I won every single other set in my pool, guess I made the right decision. I felt kind of bad because I do eventually want to have a DK vs Falcon set w/ Hax where I'm playing well/not ******** (FC set was a joke), but again, I'll never beat him, so I'm not all that upset about it.

BTW I did DK dittos w/ Kwan and Phish-it, I think I won all of them against Kwan (I think he doesn't play nearly as often or recently as Phish and I do) and most of them against Phish-it (lost 1? or 2? don't remember). Not that DK dittos mean anything, & they were friendlies anyway. Also unfortunately Phish-it was forced to play Kwan in the Loser's bracket I think, which was sad =(

 

[Renth]

Your confidence is so inspiring..... :\

 

[Green Ranger]

you monkeys ready for apex?

 

[Strong Badam]

Are YOU?

Renth: I'm sorry I don't have an unrealistic amount of confidence in either my character's or my own ability. Hax's playstyle is IMO the closest to optimal play Falcon can play at right now, unless S2J and he compare notes, and if Falcon is played that way DK almost has a harder time than against Fox. I've done decently against many Falcons like S2J, Darkrain, etc. but Hax just destroys me. He's also obviously significantly better than me as a player and although I've improved a lot in the last ~year, I'm still not at his level, and whether or not I'll eventually reach it remains to be seen.

I'd like to be a more inspiring player, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up if I'm not able to back it up. I hope more than any of you that I'm wrong.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

very ready for apex.

 

[Strong Badam]

I am sooooo ready for APEX. My monkey is going in.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Apex is still some time away. Don't be wasting time because you are thinking you are ready. In a week you would be more ready than you are now. So, you are not ready.