The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[stingers]

umm well that might be because...it was actually a friendly. like wtf I dont get ur logic here

 

[Sneak8288]

We can see how well you deal with **** talk, Sneak...

people took personal stabs at me 1st so i retaliated and ppl look at me like im the bad guy.. gtfo here

 

[Ocean]

except its legitimate because we really do not try during friendlies...

 

[Sneak8288]

umm well that might be because...it was actually a friendly. like wtf I dont get ur logic here

what im saying is just because it wasn't in tournament it shouldnt just be an excuse for losing to someone... for instance if i play pp in 100 friendlies with our mains and lose 99 and never play him in tournament, none of it matters at all?

 

[TheLastCacely]

except its legitimate because we really do not try during friendlies...

i think sneak is talking about how u guys dont try during tourney sets. >.>



edit: lololooll nvm, guess he wasnt.

 

[stingers]

what im saying is just because it wasn't in tournament it shouldnt just be an excuse for losing to someone... for instance if i play pp in 100 friendlies with our mains and lose 99 and never play him in tournament, none of it matters at all?

if u werent trying...no...lol

 

[Ocean]

back when video games were fun

we smiled, i teamed with ocean.... all was bliss

now apparently we "need to get good at this game" and "try hard" for whatttt?

matt, we should team again in the near future. I miss team san fran.

 

[Sneak8288]

if u werent trying...no...lol

It just seems like half of the people ONLY aren't trying once they lose

 

[Dark Hart]

people took personal stabs at me 1st so i retaliated and ppl look at me like im the bad guy.. gtfo here

no u

what im saying is just because it wasn't in tournament it shouldnt just be an excuse for losing to someone... for instance if i play pp in 100 friendlies with our mains and lose 99 and never play him in tournament, none of it matters at all?

not really, no

matt, we should team again in the near future. I miss team san fran.

hey didn't me and ksk tap dat? =P

 

[Moophobia]

A lot of people just don't try their hardest in friendlies. That's why I'd beat cam in friendlies then he'd turn around and 2-0 me in tournament. Some people just don't like to try all the ****ing time, and it only seems like it when they lose because no one will bring up when they win a friendly because it's "just a friendly". I believe they are called casuals or friendlies for a reason but maybe it's just me

 

[Ocean]

hey didn't me and ksk tap dat?

probably, I can't remember.

 

[stingers]

It just seems like half of the people ONLY aren't trying once they lose

i think ur just paranoid

nobody really cares that much

 

[~Twitch~]

hey DJ, next time we're both at a tourney i need to play you. like a lot.

 

[Sneak8288]

A lot of people just don't try their hardest in friendlies. That's why I'd beat cam in friendlies then he'd turn around and 2-0 me in tournament. Some people just don't like to try all the ****ing time, and it only seems like it when they lose because no one will bring up when they win a friendly because it's "just a friendly". I believe they are called casuals or friendlies for a reason but maybe it's just me

I understand people not trying all the time, you guys aren't getting what i'm saying... it just seems like its getting used as a crutch

 

[Dark Hart]

Sneak, get out of my thread

 

[Dr Peepee]

im not saying try all the time... but to hide behind "it was a friendly" for every single match gets kinda old

Just depends on how much everyone does it. I mean are you really gonna argue that friendlies can be as serious as tournament when money is on the line? Sometimes that's the only way to bring out a full tryhard in people.

On the other hand, people need to accept friendlies as friendlies and just be like "yeah whatever" if they get called out on it and be secure enough in their ability to win in tournament to not make that friendlies john.

Since no one MMs about stuff, just shut up about friendlies lol.

Ugh I have so much to reply to but first more pizza.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

LOL the me vs cam thread got NC a ****load of recognition beyond pp... someone should definitely host a national asap... but look, one thing i hate about NC is the attitude here, everyone is all like "I suck" and then someone else is like "you dont suck, i suck way more, lets cry and hug cuz we suck together" I seriously feel like the more **** talk and rivalries between people the better and faster it will make people improve because you always wanna be better than someone else. I also hate how everyone hides behind friendlies and uses it as some justification for losing. What's the point of purposely and consistently sandbagging in friendlies.. it always feels like people just do it so they can use it as a john for not being able to beat someone. You can't play every single person in tournament, so why BS it when you do play someone. Sandbagging won't make you better or make you look any cooler.

I don't know about the rest of NC, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I don't try as hard as I can in any friendlies I ever play vs anyone, ever. (except those beer matches... **** you kevin, I almost had you) Half the time I don't even try in tournament because I'm ****ing lazy and/or already pretty sure I can beat the person.

I also know this works against me because I take bad habits that I applied during super sandbag funtime and try and use them in real matches without thinking about it. Buttt, back to the point, not everyone always tries as hard as they can and there are various reasons for that. I think it's more fun to goof off than to be stone-faced serious in every game of smash I play.

 

[Diatenshi]

matt, we should team again in the near future. I miss team san fran.

oh lay do itt?

 

[Ocean]

holy **** guys

kevin isnt eating mcdonalds

what do we do

EDIT: O LAY DO ITTTT

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

also i ****ing love ZoSo and we should steal a TV at ROM and play more smash bros together

 

[Sneak8288]

I don't know about the rest of NC, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I don't try as hard as I can in any friendlies I ever play vs anyone, ever. (except those beer matches... **** you kevin, I almost had you) Half the time I don't even try in tournament because I'm ****ing lazy and/or already pretty sure I can beat the person.

I also know this works against me because I take bad habits that I applied during super sandbag funtime and try and use them in real matches without thinking about it. Buttt, back to the point, not everyone always tries as hard as they can and there are various reasons for that. I think it's more fun to goof off than to be stone-faced serious in every game of smash I play.

nah theres people who would use their wins in friendlies as a way to judge skill even down here bcuz i've seen people do it but those same people use that "its a friendly" crutch once the shoe is on the other foot. i understand that people don't try as hard as they can in friendlies all the time, i do the same by practicing secondaries or playing roy or something like that, but you can seriously tell when someone is playing serious but when they lose they try to just play it off as just a friendly

 

[Moophobia]

Well I'm sorry you had to experience that, I mean I got kevins falco to 1 stock with doc before in a friendly >.> I've beatin you in a friendly before sneak but I know if we played tournament you would tap me. But there are a couple people(me being one of them) who won't try unless you ask. Speaking of I would like to play you in some seriouslies.

 

[Dark Hart]

If you've never played anyone in tourney or mm, you're going to base their skill off of those friendlies too...

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

I don't ever base anyone's skill off of a friendly. I give everyone the respect that they might be able to beat me in tournament until we play in tournament. Same for MMs.

 

[Diatenshi]

i tapped that link... :/

 

[Moophobia]

lol yay we've never played in tournament in a mm and we both know you'd **** me =P

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

lol yay we've never played in tournament in a mm and we both know you'd **** me =P

I played you in tournament one time a long time ago at Bill's back when XIF and Chaddd came... sup baby.

M@... MM? 8)

 

[Moophobia]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH you right. my fault

 

[Diatenshi]

I played you in tournament one time a long time ago at Bill's back when XIF and Chaddd came... sup baby.

M@... MM? 8)

aightttt

1 quarter!

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

done... IT'S ****IN DONE

dat quarter is mine

 

[Diatenshi]

i havent lost to that link yet

boyyyy

 

[DJRome]

so just go by tournament sets then.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I vote Yay goes up 3 spots for his trash talk in the Sneak vs. Cam thread.

Obviously my vote is the only one that matters.

PP, I think Marth vs. Falco is even if not in Falco's favor. I'm curious as to why you think otherwise.

Wellllllll


From any given neutral position, Marth has a solid counter to everything Falco can do. Falco's ordinary laser approaches have to be super tricky in order to be successful. Typical laser approaches are beaten in a variety of ways. Lasering in close gets you Fair'd OOS, lasering at a distance and Marth could take a laser hit and then attack/move out of harm's way easily. Falco has to resort to a sort of laser to lock Marth down then DD/move in quick game and Marth can bait approaches by WD'ing backward or CC'ing Nair/jumping below 40%~ to lose landing lag on a Dair to get a free grab. If Falco just DDs for a second then Marth can WD OOS/move away to regain composure but that's more iffy and the best way for Falco to get in. Oh yeah, and if Falco isn't consciously shooting all lasers very low then Marth gets a Dtilt/dash attack approach that leads to fun combos. Oh, and counter also lets Marth cause Falco to think through his approaches carefully, and I'll explain why that's important next.

Right after I talk about this next trick. It works best on DL, but it can be applied anywhere. When Marth takes a laser in the air, he can just Fair out of the stun before Falco can follow up with anything(another reason Falco can't get in well). So Marth can FH/DJ in such a way that allows him to float from the center and retreat backward safely, keeping Falco a Fair's length away at least. When Falco realizes he can't get in(and this is how the matchup works if you start to camp/think camping is the best idea), then Marth will just float towards Falco as a mixup and catch him offguard/with little stage control. Marth that is scaring Falco from lasering and now having stage control is a Marth that only needs that one easy read to death combo now.


In any matchup where a character can scare Falco from approaching(like Ganon can...Linguini feels this way about the matchup too so don't think I'm making stuff up) then Falco loses his psychological edge and has to play a lot safer and think through his movements more carefully. Since Falco is already a slower character this makes him that much easier to read and allows Marth to take advantage of the match much better.

Once Falco gets in though, he's still not really safe. Marth's amazing shield and height lets him up-B OOS to beat Falco's pressure and WD OOS pulls him away from delayed moves(and can give a tippered Fsmash). Falco has to resort to shine grabbing or aerial to shine to retreating aerial so that none of these things can affect him, but I suppose Marth could chase him at that point if he wanted to.

Anyway, Marth can DI the lasers on Uthrow so Falco gets no combo there, and every other grab is just hopeful guesswork for Falco. Marth grabbing or getting a solid hit on Falco generally means his stock. Falco getting a shine on Marth on any stage usually has a lower likelihood of leading to death, even with Falco combos going a lot farther than they used to. Admittedly, this could be tested a little farther on my part because I don't get the chance to fight Marth enough, but I'm pretty certain that Marth will almost always capitalize much harder on any given opening than Falco will.

Edeguarding.....Marth ***** Falco offstage easily. Falco....in my opinion has to guess a lot to make edgeguarding successful even occasionally. Lightshield edgehog is good but I don't believe that's enough, especially when counting instances where Marth has his double jump closer to the edge.

Now, Falco gets to control the stage a lot with lasers, and he can mix up his approaches decently enough to keep himself on a decent wave of momentum I suppose, but Marth can crush momentum easily and bring games back with a correct read/prediction on Falco's approaches/movement. I typically say 55/45 Marth for this because I prefer to be conservative and Marths don't seem to apply everything they can(like shield DI) in this current metagame from what I've seen, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone shows this matchup being 60/40 one day.

Like I said, I got to a certain level that I found acceptable to remain somewhat competitive with my friends (in a time when nc was barely competitive). I learned some stuff about the game but I never really thought much while I played. I did stuff that I thought was fun even if I knew it sucked. I really didn't care about getting better. So when I decided to get good a year ago, I did have a head start on you, but I really wasn't very good at all.

And money doesn't matter to everyone, so you can't say people cared because they spent money. Would I have really spent $500 dollars on just Jubilee IV if I cared about money? Winning money is rewarding, but I didn't care about spending money to enter tournaments. I even paid for all the gas when the MPs went to tournaments and often paid for other people's entry fees.

On a side note, I think it was the mourning pirates that destroyed the separate crews. Way back in the day there was a lot of competition between YGO and Taco Bell Ocho. Then the Mourning Pirates came on the scene and for a while we kept up with the rivalry (but none of us really cared, knorr and malk just trash talked a lot for fun). Then after some Munkaids and mainly through the jubilees we kind of brought the two crews together and nobody cared anymore. If you haven't been to a jubilee before, you really don't know how NC was before brawl (and I'm not even really counting the last jubilee, because it wasn't as good as the others).


As far as technicality goes, spacies are harder to play in a how-fast-you-have-to-be sense. It's pretty impossible to deny that if you are playing spacies right you are pressing more buttons than other characters. This means that it's easier to make a mistake as a spacy. Aside from the technical barrier, spacies are much easier to play than other characters because they have so many options and thus it's easier to figure out how to beat stuff. It's hard to play a character that is worse because they have less options, but they are definitely not as technically challenging (in the how fast you have to be sense). However, every single character in the game requires you to be precise and have good spacing, which is technical and hard. I would argue that this is harder than pressing lots of buttons, and it's a difficulty that every character has.

I wish I knew old NC. =(((((((

I didn't know MPs brought the old crews together....that's really cool. Thanks for the info Karn.

I understand people not trying all the time, you guys aren't getting what i'm saying... it just seems like its getting used as a crutch

Yeah it's definitely a cop-out at times here, but I'm hoping people man up about friendlies and either learn to try in them or stay quiet about them(some people know how to pick this option, and oftentimes the more vocal people in general don't).

I don't know about the rest of NC, but I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt I don't try as hard as I can in any friendlies I ever play vs anyone, ever. (except those beer matches... **** you kevin, I almost had you) Half the time I don't even try in tournament because I'm ****ing lazy and/or already pretty sure I can beat the person.

I also know this works against me because I take bad habits that I applied during super sandbag funtime and try and use them in real matches without thinking about it. Buttt, back to the point, not everyone always tries as hard as they can and there are various reasons for that. I think it's more fun to goof off than to be stone-faced serious in every game of smash I play.

1.**** you you should try on me always. <3

2. That's the downside of sandbagging a lot. I know from training Seven. XD

nah theres people who would use their wins in friendlies as a way to judge skill even down here bcuz i've seen people do it but those same people use that "its a friendly" crutch once the shoe is on the other foot. i understand that people don't try as hard as they can in friendlies all the time, i do the same by practicing secondaries or playing roy or something like that, but you can seriously tell when someone is playing serious but when they lose they try to just play it off as just a friendly

Yeah that's why it's better to just **** them in tournament and otherwise ignore comments like that. NC really should change how they handle friendlies but that doesn't mean that they necessarily will at all.

 

[~Twitch~]

haha...falco beats marth...aaahhhh...we definitely need more marth players.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

*yawn* after 3 hours of a chemistry lab, and another 3 hour nap with my gf, i can say that i don't really give a ****. but i will reply to a few concepts.

spacies hit more buttons. ganon doesn't hit more buttons.

friendlies are indeed friendlies. i certainly don't apply every concept i've ever known in friendlies like i try to do in tournament. but i don't enjoy losing either. cam is the primary person that i know to never ever judge friendlies from. but as long as i'm losing, i'm trying to win. it is certainly the choice of the player to try or not in friendlies, but i noticed rather quickly that if i wanted serious matches with people in the scene, i'd just have to hope to find them in tourney, cause very few people accepted the laundry list of MM's i made.

Friendlies are just that. but josh, i have seen you as a prime example of basing cam's puff from friendlies, and also aasem's peach off of friendlies, both of which are probably so different from their tournament versions that...they generally shouldn't be mentioned haha.

as for the friendly scene: umm ok. and yeah dark hart, i don't know anything about the scene from before i joined it. my bad for...not being here? sorry for assuming the tournament melee scene in NC was also a competitive melee scene in NC. it seemed like a valid assumption, but i guess i was wrong.

i've always wondered why tournament matches in which no players around my level are receiving money end up mattering significantly more to players than money matches where...you directly win or lose money. this still confuses me.

and yeah yay, thats why i try a little more than i 'have' to in friendlies, as of late. cause i still do dumb things in tourney that i need to stop doing in general. the only way it seems to get better is if i stop doing them overall, rather than to suddenly play a completely different "tourney style" that i've never used because all i do is play dumb**** mean nothing friendlies.

theo, i don't think anyone really thinks you've gotten worse overall, but we were just referencing the fact that you're not completely back on your game.

tl;dr: it's cool to have fun, but why not get better? more button presses mean more opportunity to mess up, but if you're messing up, you're doing it wrong. so either do it right or quit trying.

 

[Dr Peepee]

i've always wondered why tournament matches in which no players around my level are receiving money end up mattering significantly more to players than money matches where...you directly win or lose money. this still confuses me.

and yeah yay, thats why i try a little more than i 'have' to in friendlies, as of late. cause i still do dumb things in tourney that i need to stop doing in general. the only way it seems to get better is if i stop doing them overall, rather than to suddenly play a completely different "tourney style" that i've never used because all i do is play dumb**** mean nothing friendlies.

theo, i don't think anyone really thinks you've gotten worse overall, but we were just referencing the fact that you're not completely back on your game.

tl;dr: it's cool to have fun, but why not get better? more button presses mean more opportunity to mess up, but if you're messing up, you're doing it wrong. so either do it right or quit trying.

I know we've been over this, but tournament matches determine placings and just have a greater stigma to try behind them because that's what everyone is putting in money for so you know it's more serious. MMs people should also try in so I don't get why a distinction is being made except for when deciding PRs but let's not do that again.

I think trying all of the time in friendlies is super legit. Friendlies are amazing opportunities to learn and the only time you get to play some players(since some won't MM and you might not get them in bracket). If someone requests you play seriously, then you probably should because that player is trying to get better/learn more. It's not hard to drop an act of goofing off to help someone get better, plus you might even learn something yourself. Also you keep yourself from developing bad habits by sandbagging less, which is always good.

I think Fox is the only character that can really john about technical mastery throughout a tournament. That character will WEAR YOU OUT.

 

[Moophobia]

Well if people never ask me to play seriously I'm just going to mindless rush down and try to be flashy. :3

 

[stingers]

That character will WEAR YOU OUT.

lol, I feel mentally drained more than anything. maybe its just cuz I actually think when I'm playing brawl, but playing brawl for extended periods of time and actually trying makes me exhausted.

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL totally wrong thread, but yeah Brawl does that too.

 

[Moophobia]

Yeah brawl hurts my brain if I play it for long periods of time