The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[Bl@ckChris]

i've been playin the same 15 people in tourney since i got here. why do you think i randomly just went to that VA tourney? i came into the scene with the motivation to get better, whether the rest of you did or not.

we just said the same thing. ganon isn't technical enough, or "as technically intensive", no matter how you wanna put fancy words around it, since ganon CAN'T perfectly shield pressure, he can't mess it up, amirite? and btw, i figured you would know how hard ganon gets combo'd since you've been 4-stocking me forever. one technical mistake from ganon leads to very bad auto combos that aren't even really techchases like ganon's are. you just said what i said. so good stuff making my point.

i started last october...i started thinking in like...april. only since after TO6 have i started making a real attempt at even looking at the opponent. not because i didn't want to get better, but simply because i was ignorant of the fact that these were necessary facets of improvement. but yeah, i guess they were around the first duke biweeklies? idk when they started...i think my first tourney was the 4th or 5th one.

 

[Lightsyde]

i've been playin the same 15 people in tourney since i got here. why do you think i randomly just went to that VA tourney? i came into the scene with the motivation to get better, whether the rest of you did or not.

we just said the same thing. ganon isn't technical enough, or "as technically intensive", no matter how you wanna put fancy words around it, since ganon CAN'T perfectly shield pressure, he can't mess it up, amirite? and btw, i figured you would know how hard ganon gets combo'd since you've been 4-stocking me forever. one technical mistake from ganon leads to very bad auto combos that aren't even really techchases like ganon's are. you just said what i said. so good stuff making my point.

i started last october...i started thinking in like...april. only since after TO6 have i started making a real attempt at even looking at the opponent. not because i didn't want to get better, but simply because i was ignorant of the fact that these were necessary facets of improvement. but yeah, i guess they were around the first duke biweeklies? idk when they started...i think my first tourney was the 4th or 5th one.

15 people who are all trying to improve now and have grown tremendously. I only had James (who was quitting for Guilty Gear) and Adam occasionally (who was working a lot).

And no, we didn't say the same thing. These are exact quotes. You said, in your usual mocking tone, that I said "(your) off days wouldn't matter cuz (your) character isn't technical enough." What I said was "Your technically off days just aren't as significant" which they aren't because your character isn't as technically intensive. Get proved wrong again.

Yes, Ganon can be auto combo'd from mistakes but Ganon also lives to double or triple the percents that Falco does. Falco has a million more inputs and therefore a million more opportunities to make mistakes, and flat out DIES from smaller errors.

 

[justice]

Hell yes I do!

So, Smith do you know how Code Lyoko ended? It's kinda hard to follow a european show.

Took the thought right out of my mind.
But for serious, when would a good tourney date be?

Another Battle Axe?

 

[Dr Peepee]

May be thinking of hosting again soon lil bits
When is a good date for it?
I may not be around much longer, so I want to mebbe host before the end of the year.

Strange that you asked here and not something like the brocator thread, but I wanna say you're outta luck until December 4th or something(unless you wanna host November 13th in between Adam's tourney and RoM3?) because I think the other weekend in November the 27th is taken by Asheboro.

First edit: Wtf Marth beats Falco.

Second edit: I agree with Hbox that Puff beats Falco 55/45 now.

Third edit: Dop is amazing vs Marth(like he can beat mine around 25% of the time?) and theo has gotten worse imo.

Fourth edit: I killed off the old-school smashers what??? I inspired people whaaaaaat????

Anyway, it is pretty tough to get better in a scene of less competitive people, but that isn't the case anymore(and I had ali and peter and adam to motivate me back in the day and twitch as a regular motivated training partner). Now we have motivated people who finally want to travel and talk about the game and rep our state and learn the metagame and all that **** so be thankful for what you have and take advantage of the motivated players around you. I'd have killed for some of your opportunities.

 

[Mariabattleaxe]

Oh I guess you are right, I just feel like the most people read this thread so I posted in it.
Nov 13 is too close to other tournaments. I may decide to host a Christmas themed one in December! That would be adorable

We could do a secret Santa, maybe that would bring everyone together and make some people stop thinking that they are better than others :/

All this **** talk would be okay if it were not so personal, but because it is, it hurts to see it. I do not like it at all.

 

[Ocean]

a little late, but puff definitely beats falco 55-45. its a retardedly annoying matchup for falco.

I still want to host splash 2 in december, but maria if you want to take december instead, then I can host it later and focus on making it a regional.

 

[Dark Hart]

Chris, like you said once, NC is one giant crew. Believe it or not it's always been like that, and there are a few of us who where just starting out during the period Josh mentioned. People didn't really start trying to get better until HERB2 times, NC was just one giant smashfest after the other.

Chris, you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to anything

 

[Mariabattleaxe]

hmm that will be good cause I can not make mine regionals anymore.
I am going to be moving to SC sometime after Christmas

 

[Dr Peepee]

Oh I guess you are right, I just feel like the most people read this thread so I posted in it.
Nov 13 is too close to other tournaments. I may decide to host a Christmas themed one in December! That would be adorable

We could do a secret Santa, maybe that would bring everyone together and make some people stop thinking that they are better than others :/

All this **** talk would be okay if it were not so personal, but because it is, it hurts to see it. I do not like it at all.

Whatever works.

Guess you'll find time in December then, cool. Good luck.

Lol secret santa.

Eh some people can trash talk and some can't. Might as well let it happen because at least it keeps people thinking about the game.

 

[Mariabattleaxe]

I guess so. I just wish it were not so personal is all.

And I will ask gamefrog about December we can have christmas crew battles. Red vs. Green. Winners get candy canes!

ika:

 

[TheLastCacely]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swl9_mQbdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmC36vN1sb0&feature=related


you all look like idiots >.>

 

[ZIO]

YOU look like idiots.

 

[DJRome]

i like playing falco vs puff

chris, do you think it's waste of money if you've improved because of the tournaments?

josh, do you think having more chances to mess up with say falco or fox makes the character harder to play? keep in mind that because of their speed and moveset, they have an inherent advantage when they aren't messing up.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Stack it up.


Zio did u got to tipped off 6?

 

[ZIO]

I was in that crowd, so yes.

 

[~Twitch~]

tell twitch i said $1 mm Link vs Fox 3/5 sup baby

i mean i'd rather mm your main but if you're scared...

been there done that

bwahahahahahhahah

That night...

too good.

..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swl9_mQbdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmC36vN1sb0&feature=related


you all look like idiots >.>

...nah, keith.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Twitch ur the ****in man, dawg. Just thought i should let you know.

 

[Lightsyde]

josh, do you think having more chances to mess up with say falco or fox makes the character harder to play? keep in mind that because of their speed and moveset, they have an inherent advantage when they aren't messing up.

Well, my initial reaction is obviously yes. If you are inputting 3x the number of commands as your opponent and all your inputs for the most part need to be extremely precise or you will be punished/combo'd (harder than most characters, especially Falco) than that seems like the answer is of course.

However, I do see what you're getting at. Fox and Falco speed/movesets are clearly advantageous in a lot of match ups (read: all of them), hence why they are so good. But do they as characters necessarily have an advantage over a Marth, Sheik or Peach (just for example) that isn't making technical errors as well? I don't really think so. Melee isn't only about tech skill, or Otto (or any other hyper technical spacie) would place higher or be winning at Nationals. That's where it comes down to metagame/mindgames/etc.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Tech skill is only half(if that) the game though. SW may hit all of his L-cancels but if he isn't smart enough then he isn't gonna win because his stuff can be punished/spaced out like any other space animal.

 

[Lightsyde]

Yay for Kevin being on the same wavelength. haha

Now I will respond to your post.

First edit: Wtf Marth beats Falco.

Second edit: I agree with Hbox that Puff beats Falco 55/45 now.

Third edit: Dop is amazing vs Marth(like he can beat mine around 25% of the time?) and theo has gotten worse imo.

Fourth edit: I killed off the old-school smashers what??? I inspired people whaaaaaat????

Anyway, it is pretty tough to get better in a scene of less competitive people, but that isn't the case anymore(and I had ali and peter and adam to motivate me back in the day and twitch as a regular motivated training partner). Now we have motivated people who finally want to travel and talk about the game and rep our state and learn the metagame and all that **** so be thankful for what you have and take advantage of the motivated players around you. I'd have killed for some of your opportunities.

I'm kinda on the fence about this one. You definitely showed me the night you stayed at my house how good he is at shutting Falco down and just covering all options and of course his edge guarding is impeccable. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the MU though.

I'm glad you've come around that admission, but why 55/45 and not 60/40? Just curious.

Aasem's best match up is in fact Marth but that just makes him a good representation of how winnable the match up is for Peach. I still think it's about even. I haven't played Theo much since he's been back and I've improved a good bit since before he left so I can't tell yet.

And you didn't explicitly make specific people quit, but I remember quite a few people had the sentiment during your rise to the top that they just didn't like where the game was going (you were a good example of the evolving metagame?) and honestly, I think people just didn't like seeing Adam lose.

And yes, you had the polar opposite effect on some of the other people. You mean someone from nowhere, with no one but his little brother to practice against, can practice, improve and push himself up to pro status? It was demoralizing for people watching you soar by but then inspiring to see you get there. I think anybody from that era (myself, Alex W, Lucas, Alex F, Jim, David etc) can vouch for that.

Lucas pretty much hit the nail on the head. For at least a year and a half to two years, NC just had smashfests in the disguise of tournaments. It was fun but very different.

 

[DJRome]

it's just what side of the ball ur on. if you're on the side of spacies, u get punished for your technical mistakes which you are more prone to (i don't believe this to the extent you do, but that's another matter)

if you're on the other side, you have less options to work with because of their speed and moves so you have to think more carefully about the fewer decisions you make. so idk if i would ever say spacies are hard to play.

which is what i was saying a long time ago about simpler =/= easier

 

[stingers]

yeah kevin the scene changed a lot after u came into prominence lol
i think it might have to do with brawl a bit too. when the split occurred and all. the timings just coincided and made NC into what it is

 

[Lightsyde]

it's just what side of the ball ur on. if you're on the side of spacies, u get punished for your technical mistakes which you are more prone to (i don't believe this to the extent you do, but that's another matter)

if you're on the other side, you have less options to work with because of their speed and moves so you have to think more carefully about the fewer decisions you make. so idk if i would ever say spacies are hard to play.

which is what i was saying a long time ago about simpler =/= easier

I don't know if you'll follow me on this, but sometimes have a lot of options makes a character even harder to play because you're having to process the situation, choose from your options and do the right one. This decision making process is why Kevin is so much better and more successful than 99.9% of Falcos who all have, hypothetically, the same options. He almost always chooses the most effective (and often lethal) one over the flashy or "obvious" choice.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yay for Kevin being on the same wavelength. haha

Now I will respond to your post.



I'm kinda on the fence about this one. You definitely showed me the night you stayed at my house how good he is at shutting Falco down and just covering all options and of course his edge guarding is impeccable. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the MU though.

I'm glad you've come around that admission, but why 55/45 and not 60/40? Just curious.

Aasem's best match up is in fact Marth but that just makes him a good representation of how winnable the match up is for Peach. I still think it's about even. I haven't played Theo much since he's been back and I've improved a good bit since before he left so I can't tell yet.

And you didn't explicitly make specific people quit, but I remember quite a few people had the sentiment during your rise to the top that they just didn't like where the game was going (you were a good example of the evolving metagame?) and honestly, I think people just didn't like seeing Adam lose.

And yes, you had the polar opposite effect on some of the other people. You mean someone from nowhere, with no one but his little brother to practice against, can practice, improve and push himself up to pro status? It was demoralizing for people watching you soar by but then inspiring to see you get there. I think anybody from that era (myself, Alex W, Lucas, Alex F, Jim, David etc) can vouch for that.

Lucas pretty much hit the nail on the head. For at least a year and a half to two years, NC just had smashfests in the disguise of tournaments. It was fun but very different.

I'll post a lot about it in a bit but right now I'll say that no one uses Marth's gayness enough but even besides that Marth wins.

55/45 right now because Puff doesn't punish as hard as I used to think she does on a given opening, but I may go towards 60/40 if I can't find better punishes on her. I need to watch GFs before I give my final verdict on all of this though. I'll talk about this matchup a lot in a bit too.

Marth's might not know as well as him since most Marths suck?

Was it the camping? lol I used to camp pretty badly. XD I mean, I haven't pioneered the metagame or anything but I guess my style isn't that fun to watch/play. It is original so everyone can develop their own way to beat it. I'm not broken lol.

I'd love to talk about how I did it but no one would care.

Yeah the fests were mad fun LOL.

 

[stingers]

oh btw
like
secret santa @BAC3 sounds ****.

 

[AlcyoNite]

omg *****es talking about me when im not here

i havent gotten worse; when i first got back, i was out of practice. i still have yet to get in a full day of recovery practice, but i certainly have not gotten worse. i **** all of u still.

also, dop beats me because he is better than me. even if i had the MU experience that i want with peach, he would still beat me (for now) because he is better and would have more MU experience

the marth boards claim that falco/marth is 50/50, but i trust PP's word over theirs cuz marths on swf suck LOL

also, my thoughts on tech skill are that tech skill is a tool used to achieve the ends u want. if u play a certain character and are trying to refine a certain effectiveness for each matchup, then the way you choose to play will inherently demand a certain skillset that you either will or will not have but that you can improve. If, for whatever reason, you do not have that tech skill (either in general or you are just off), then you will (to a varying degree) not be as effective with that strategy. You can then either change your strategy or improve tech skill so that your technical abilities meet the demands of your strategy. As such, people with more skilled and consistent tech skill have more options with respect to strategy that they can use. Those who opt not (for whatever reason) to have amazing tech skill but still use a character with the potential to exhibit lots of tech skill will be limited unless they come up with a more effective strategy (*cough* dj's fox *cough*).

tl;dr according to my model, for tech heavy characters, your effectiveness in any matchup is determined directly by your ability to execute an effective strategy. Your options for changing that strategy are broadened by having greater tech skill, but that doesnt imply that your strategy will improve; just change.

 

[AlcyoNite]

I don't know if you'll follow me on this, but sometimes have a lot of options makes a character even harder to play because you're having to process the situation, choose from your options and do the right one. This decision making process is why Kevin is so much better and more successful than 99.9% of Falcos who all have, hypothetically, the same options. He almost always chooses the most effective (and often lethal) one over the flashy or "obvious" choice.

I agree 100%

sry for x2 posting. i thought i saw someone else post after my last one =/

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

when are these getting updated

i want my ****ing link next to my name. god****it kevin hurry up

 

[ZoSo]

I vote Yay goes up 3 spots for his trash talk in the Sneak vs. Cam thread.

Obviously my vote is the only one that matters.

PP, I think Marth vs. Falco is even if not in Falco's favor. I'm curious as to why you think otherwise.

 

[Foxy]

I don't know if you'll follow me on this, but sometimes have a lot of options makes a character even harder to play because you're having to process the situation, choose from your options and do the right one. This decision making process is why Kevin is so much better and more successful than 99.9% of Falcos who all have, hypothetically, the same options. He almost always chooses the most effective (and often lethal) one over the flashy or "obvious" choice.

yeah this is definitely something we talked about that is a big factor

part of the reason i'm on the verge of dropping fox until i utilize other characters effectively

with my lack of focus on playing optimally/winning the sheer number of options i have with fox from tech skill feels like a crutch, it's too hard to reduce it to "i can space these few moves in these ways, if i land x move i know y follow-up puts them in a position where i can do z read". it just feels like a ballpen for little kids, and my options are little balls but you can never really find the right one. in the end you realize all you accomplished was handling a lot of balls.

anyhoo.

that's why i'm learning other characters.

 

[Dark Hart]

I've been saying Marth>Falco since forever...

 

[lord karn]

after wasting my money for a year to go to tournaments, I still can't fathom not trying to get better at this game while in the tournament scene. But I guess that's really a mindset thing that I'll never understand.

one thing that I lack is experience. A lot of it. I go to a lot of tournies that I can make, but karn, if you think your years of experience don't count for much, then I really misunderstand a lot about this game.

lol I'm not saying I don't have off days. But according to josh, my off days wouldn't matter cuz my character isn't technical enough, amirite?

and why is it that it seems that nobody tried to get better till I came in the scene?

Like I said, I got to a certain level that I found acceptable to remain somewhat competitive with my friends (in a time when nc was barely competitive). I learned some stuff about the game but I never really thought much while I played. I did stuff that I thought was fun even if I knew it sucked. I really didn't care about getting better. So when I decided to get good a year ago, I did have a head start on you, but I really wasn't very good at all.

And money doesn't matter to everyone, so you can't say people cared because they spent money. Would I have really spent $500 dollars on just Jubilee IV if I cared about money? Winning money is rewarding, but I didn't care about spending money to enter tournaments. I even paid for all the gas when the MPs went to tournaments and often paid for other people's entry fees.

On a side note, I think it was the mourning pirates that destroyed the separate crews. Way back in the day there was a lot of competition between YGO and Taco Bell Ocho. Then the Mourning Pirates came on the scene and for a while we kept up with the rivalry (but none of us really cared, knorr and malk just trash talked a lot for fun). Then after some Munkaids and mainly through the jubilees we kind of brought the two crews together and nobody cared anymore. If you haven't been to a jubilee before, you really don't know how NC was before brawl (and I'm not even really counting the last jubilee, because it wasn't as good as the others).


As far as technicality goes, spacies are harder to play in a how-fast-you-have-to-be sense. It's pretty impossible to deny that if you are playing spacies right you are pressing more buttons than other characters. This means that it's easier to make a mistake as a spacy. Aside from the technical barrier, spacies are much easier to play than other characters because they have so many options and thus it's easier to figure out how to beat stuff. It's hard to play a character that is worse because they have less options, but they are definitely not as technically challenging (in the how fast you have to be sense). However, every single character in the game requires you to be precise and have good spacing, which is technical and hard. I would argue that this is harder than pressing lots of buttons, and it's a difficulty that every character has.

 

[Ocean]

I am loving this thread right now.

theo, want me to come over some day and help you get warmed back up?

 

[Sneak8288]

LOL the me vs cam thread got NC a ****load of recognition beyond pp... someone should definitely host a national asap... but look, one thing i hate about NC is the attitude here, everyone is all like "I suck" and then someone else is like "you dont suck, i suck way more, lets cry and hug cuz we suck together" I seriously feel like the more **** talk and rivalries between people the better and faster it will make people improve because you always wanna be better than someone else. I also hate how everyone hides behind friendlies and uses it as some justification for losing. What's the point of purposely and consistently sandbagging in friendlies.. it always feels like people just do it so they can use it as a john for not being able to beat someone. You can't play every single person in tournament, so why BS it when you do play someone. Sandbagging won't make you better or make you look any cooler.

 

[stingers]

some people also just dont feel like trying all the time

crazy revelation I know

 

[Dark Hart]

We can see how well you deal with **** talk, Sneak...

 

[Ocean]

who all says "I suck" all the time? the only people who constantly do that are snap, chris, moo, and I.

I hate the tristate that every game has to be serious, and that sandbagging is bad. all of the funnest games I've played have been screwing around in friendlies, not really trying to win. if you want people to play seriously, ask them "hey can we play some serious matches?" or challenge them to a MM if you want some serious seriousness. its just a different mentality about what tournaments are about.

 

[Sneak8288]

im not saying try all the time... but to hide behind "it was a friendly" for every single match gets kinda old

 

[TheLastCacely]

LOL the me vs cam thread got NC a ****load of recognition beyond pp... someone should definitely host a national asap... but look, one thing i hate about NC is the attitude here, everyone is all like "I suck" and then someone else is like "you dont suck, i suck way more, lets cry and hug cuz we suck together" I seriously feel like the more **** talk and rivalries between people the better and faster it will make people improve because you always wanna be better than someone else. I also hate how everyone hides behind friendlies and uses it as some justification for losing. What's the point of purposely and consistently sandbagging in friendlies.. it always feels like people just do it so they can use it as a john for not being able to beat someone. You can't play every single person in tournament, so why BS it when you do play someone. Sandbagging won't make you better or make you look any cooler.

lololoolol

That 's what kadaj said about NC brawl. Except the whole emo " we suck part"

he feels the tourneys are to casual, and only a small amount of people really try.

 

[Diatenshi]

who all says "I suck" all the time? the only people who constantly do that are snap, chris, moo, and I.

I hate the tristate that every game has to be serious, and that sandbagging is bad. all of the funnest games I've played have been screwing around in friendlies, not really trying to win. if you want people to play seriously, ask them "hey can we play some serious matches?" or challenge them to a MM if you want some serious seriousness. its just a different mentality about what tournaments are about.

back when video games were fun

we smiled, i teamed with ocean.... all was bliss

now apparently we "need to get good at this game" and "try hard" for whatttt?