LOL it's funny because neither of us actually mean anything. XDlet's just say i'm sly.
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The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! (Updated 2/11/10!)
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
- Status
DJRome
Smash Hero
let's not
mr.fizwidget
Smash Champion
ok now...
ok now...
why do i have 2 fingers?
ok now...
why do i have 2 fingers?
DJRome
Smash Hero
are you calling me fat?
mr.fizwidget
Smash Champion
DJRome
Smash Hero
im pretty that's ur goal. these threads are much less likely to get moved if you stopped posting entirely
DJRome
Smash Hero
yes have a faux mod presence in a spammy thread is helping it stay out of the social room.
dr.neo
Smash Champion
cacapoopoopeepeeshire
Criosphinx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,916
More importantly, who is the girl in PP's avatar?
GofG
Smash Champion
josh's girlfriend maria
dr.neo
Smash Champion
If quizzes are quizzical. What does that make tests?
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
Whaaa LOLOLOLOL MARIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Edit : Crioooooo what happened the other night ? You missed out son. This weekend is
party time. Make it!
Edit : Crioooooo what happened the other night ? You missed out son. This weekend is
party time. Make it!
AlcyoNite
Smash Champion
this is true,
but for practical purposes, if i want to know tourney placings, then i will look at recent tourney results
i am someone who would like to look at prs to see relative skill levels, which is what u addressed as near impossible to gauge, but which is also why...
i cant take them seriously for that. so there we have the disconnect and the reason and no posible solution
conclusion: IM NOT MAD
That obviously means we shouldn't try, right? It's not like people should be recognized as objectively as a panel can place them, right? Incentive sucks, huh?
PRs matter. They motivate people, and they are NOT totally useless. Saying you don't like them because a perfect system/your system isn't being used does no good.
Conclusion: you might not be mad, but that doesn't mean you can't say things that put a bee in my bonnet.
PRs matter. They motivate people, and they are NOT totally useless. Saying you don't like them because a perfect system/your system isn't being used does no good.
Conclusion: you might not be mad, but that doesn't mean you can't say things that put a bee in my bonnet.
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
I don't even see why this is argued. You can be "MAD" skillful but you might not show it in tourney like DJ said. If you place well in tournament shouldn't that be the only thing that matters PR wise ?
It's not a ranking to determine how good you are. Just how well you place. Not a perfect sytem but it's the best we have and nothing is perfect anyhow.
It's not a ranking to determine how good you are. Just how well you place. Not a perfect sytem but it's the best we have and nothing is perfect anyhow.
null55
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 3,500
Theo, you should understand that gauging skill is ******** not just because it's impossible, but because that may have nothing to do with your ability to place well (you could be one of those nervy mother ****ers). so stop trying to express that you **** in a completely "unmad" middle-of-the-road Sioux manner. no one gives a ****, beyond the list, we know you're good. it's just that i'm better.
Maybe you're just wording it wrongly, but I don't get this. Aren't tournaments, the only time when money is on the line and people are forced to play seriously/under pressure, the only times that should matter when determining who is good? I figured the only complaint we had was that people didn't like the way the results of tournaments were interpreted, but no one has ever been fully satisfied by such methods.
I would figure someone that is good would place well, and someone that is bad to place badly. I don't understand why that's wrong.
mr.fizwidget
Smash Champion
Nah I was definitely going for that hahaha.
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
It is the wording. When people play under pressure, someone (lets call him guy A) who might usually beat someone else consistently ( lets call that guy dude B ) but loses to him in tournament everytime well then that person is overall better since he's able to handle the pressure as well as performs better in tourney. I think of the overall aspects of a player when I determine how good they are.
I had two friends in NY Rami and Ali (brothers). Rami would ALWAYS win when we played with our friends and that includes Ali. But when we attended our first tounrnament Ali was playing friendlies and won 25 straight matches while Rami only won (barely) 1. His nerves got the better of him alot even though he was by and far the "best" out of us at the time.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say with this. On the other hand some people aren't affected by the pressure or other tourney stimuli so in a vague way it does show
how good someone is especially since someone like Mango places pretty darn consistently.
Although in the end I beleive the last thing you say in your qoute, there are so many deciding factors as to what makes a good player.
I might, however, be wrong lol
Well, what's to say that similarly skilled players wouldn't "think" they were just nervous or had an "off day?" If we tried to take all of these stories(aka johns) into account when we tried to do PRs, objectivity owuld fly out of the window. We need results, hard numbers, from a tournament. You beat this person, you lost to this person, so THIS is your placing. THIS is what you earned. If you tell them that and then you see them beat the guy they lost to in friendlies, why couldn't you assume that the guy who is now losing is just sandbagging because there's no money/pride on the line? Not everyone looks at friendlies the same way, you know(especially in NC.....).
That's where we included Challenge Matches back in the day.
But then that concept became silly, and there were people who literally did go out on road trips just to fight a single person (Bringing up a scenario Pac talked to me about with him).
But then that concept became silly, and there were people who literally did go out on road trips just to fight a single person (Bringing up a scenario Pac talked to me about with him).
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
Well PP you're making my case for me. lol
I was talking about people who are similarly skilled. That wasn't the only time that happened with Rami, unfortunately. I'm just saying that applies to some and is null for some. Because of that, the PR can never be 100% accurate. It's really what I'm trying to say. And I'm saying it to people who complain about the rankings. The thread states that if you don't like the rankings you should do something about it. That's what these nay sayers should be doing. Improving to improve their rank. Unfortunately we can't have a global round robin or ever really have something that will tally your true skill. A PR cant measure exactly how much better you are then the guy above or right below you. Unless its glaringly obvious. My point is only that people shouldn't complain about the PR's.
I mean isn't that what we all want ?
LOL I'm so glad you guys brought up challenge matches when I went to RM. That idea is hysterical hahahaha.
Edittttt: So between similarly skilled people, PRs should reflect johns? That seems to be what you support. I don't know how else to take it when you didn't really back up what you said.....
I see you talked to Boss Hog about round robins, and yes, I think we might give them a go in NC. It can only help.
So what if we don't get measurements to the digit of how much better someone is than another? Does that matter? Can a system even do that? No. Being above or below someone is all you need to evaluate how you are in relation to them(for that period at least I suppose).
I don't care if people don't like the PRs. Not liking them is part of being motivated to go out and fix them. I don't like it when people don't like the way the PRs are hammered out. The process is good enough for the panel so NC should trust in the panel to do the best it can with what it has.
Edittttt: So between similarly skilled people, PRs should reflect johns? That seems to be what you support. I don't know how else to take it when you didn't really back up what you said.....
I see you talked to Boss Hog about round robins, and yes, I think we might give them a go in NC. It can only help.
So what if we don't get measurements to the digit of how much better someone is than another? Does that matter? Can a system even do that? No. Being above or below someone is all you need to evaluate how you are in relation to them(for that period at least I suppose).
I don't care if people don't like the PRs. Not liking them is part of being motivated to go out and fix them. I don't like it when people don't like the way the PRs are hammered out. The process is good enough for the panel so NC should trust in the panel to do the best it can with what it has.
DAftFlip
Smash Journeyman
Of course. Trying to make the local events but rides are scarce. I will be at the summer events, however I'd like to play you sometime soon. Don't worry CJ I gotchu
lord karn
Smash Master
The disagreement you guys are having is based completely off different perceived meanings of different words. PRs represent ability to place in tournament over a specified time period because we can measure that objectively and without bias. The only errors in such a system are mistakes in accounting for data. That's why we do PRs the way we do.
Now, it might be the case that what we measure in PRs also correlates with skill. PP's idea of what skill is essentially exactly what the PRs represent; skill is the ability to place well in tournament. Theogenes' idea of skill is something different; how well a certain player plays under favoring conditions (or something like that). Skill is used in several different ways by different players which is what causes all the confusion. That's why the power rankings state the parameters of what they measure. If you want to consider that synonymous with skill, you can. Nevertheless, the power rankings measure the same thing.
Now, it might be the case that what we measure in PRs also correlates with skill. PP's idea of what skill is essentially exactly what the PRs represent; skill is the ability to place well in tournament. Theogenes' idea of skill is something different; how well a certain player plays under favoring conditions (or something like that). Skill is used in several different ways by different players which is what causes all the confusion. That's why the power rankings state the parameters of what they measure. If you want to consider that synonymous with skill, you can. Nevertheless, the power rankings measure the same thing.
@Karn: I wish I was that smart.
But yeah, basically that.
But yeah, basically that.
Dorsey
Banned via Warnings
I have no problems with the way the PRs are done, but no one bothered to acknowledge what I said which seems like a legitimate flaw to me.
Since the seedings are NOT done by character/match-up, what if I knock out better ganons and falcons and deny them the chance to beat people that I would lose to? Is this what MM's are for? What if they don't have any money?.......
I'm just saying that situations CAN come up in which fairness is totally in question for the rankings. And I'm not saying that I have a solution either. I just think gray areas like this hypothetical one should be the focus of this discussion.....otherwise the rankings are done properly.
Since the seedings are NOT done by character/match-up, what if I knock out better ganons and falcons and deny them the chance to beat people that I would lose to? Is this what MM's are for? What if they don't have any money?.......
I'm just saying that situations CAN come up in which fairness is totally in question for the rankings. And I'm not saying that I have a solution either. I just think gray areas like this hypothetical one should be the focus of this discussion.....otherwise the rankings are done properly.
How could we possibly incorporate characters/MUs into seeding? Adding in those sorts of things would bring in needless arguments that get into all kinds of silly subjectivity(who agrees on matchups/player vs player that often? pick a thread lol) that would delay tournaments forever and skew seeding.
dr.neo
Smash Champion
This is me being serious. Don't get used to it.
Kevin, if I were you I would totally ignore these arguments. This is how it is going to go. You got a panel of "leaders" getting together and coming up with a power rankings list. They try their best to make it as accurate as possible. They go through tournament standings, money matches, and whatever else. You come up with something that is to the best of your ability accurate. People are going to bring up scenarios, johns, and all kinds of things to say how this is wrong. It's going to happen every time!
You could do a round robin. Of course that will show who wins the most matches, but then something like this is going to happen. Person A beats person B, but person B wins more matches overall and person B gets a higher ranking. Person A says, "but I beat person B so that makes me better than them". Then lets say someone good like Adam can't make it to this round robin because of work, and I couldn't because of car problems, and Ali couldn't because he had a test to study for. Then they shouldn't be on there right? I mean they weren't there to win so you can't assume they would have for the rights of all the other smashers.
It's never going to be perfect and its never going to be to everyone's likings. EVER!!! Everyone needs to quit crying about it for a few reasons.
1) Unless your a top player your not really making money off of the game. You might win your gas money back and money for your food, but thats nothing to master the game for.
2) It's a freaking video game. It's fun to be in a tournament setting, see friends, meet people, and make memories, but God Almighty some of you need to get a life outside of the game.
3) Just go freaking fix it like PP always says. If your good enough to be top ten in the state then prove it. If you haven't consistently placed top 10 in the tournaments, then why are you even arguing to begin with? If you don't play in enough tournament, but your better than the people that do play then go to more tournaments. Show that it means something to you.
Freaking cry about it NC.
Kevin, if I were you I would totally ignore these arguments. This is how it is going to go. You got a panel of "leaders" getting together and coming up with a power rankings list. They try their best to make it as accurate as possible. They go through tournament standings, money matches, and whatever else. You come up with something that is to the best of your ability accurate. People are going to bring up scenarios, johns, and all kinds of things to say how this is wrong. It's going to happen every time!
You could do a round robin. Of course that will show who wins the most matches, but then something like this is going to happen. Person A beats person B, but person B wins more matches overall and person B gets a higher ranking. Person A says, "but I beat person B so that makes me better than them". Then lets say someone good like Adam can't make it to this round robin because of work, and I couldn't because of car problems, and Ali couldn't because he had a test to study for. Then they shouldn't be on there right? I mean they weren't there to win so you can't assume they would have for the rights of all the other smashers.
It's never going to be perfect and its never going to be to everyone's likings. EVER!!! Everyone needs to quit crying about it for a few reasons.
1) Unless your a top player your not really making money off of the game. You might win your gas money back and money for your food, but thats nothing to master the game for.
2) It's a freaking video game. It's fun to be in a tournament setting, see friends, meet people, and make memories, but God Almighty some of you need to get a life outside of the game.
3) Just go freaking fix it like PP always says. If your good enough to be top ten in the state then prove it. If you haven't consistently placed top 10 in the tournaments, then why are you even arguing to begin with? If you don't play in enough tournament, but your better than the people that do play then go to more tournaments. Show that it means something to you.
Freaking cry about it NC.
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