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In hindsight I think it was a bit of a wasted opportunity not to do a 16 bit remake/remaster of the NES Zelda games. Mario All Stars made for very polished versions of the 8 bit Mario titles, and (while fairly different) Zero Mission effectively allowed for a very welcoming variation of the first Metroid. The first two Zelda releases were strong games that honestly deserved an update to the kind of well-aged graphical style the SNES/GBA mastered.
The Satellaview game fans have preserved is an interesting what if, but I think a fully dedicated (and localized) Zelda I/II remake project complete with more distinct aesthetics would have been really special.
Adjacent but not really responding to the previous post, but I think the Mario All-Stars graphics haven't actually aged as well as their NES counterparts. There's a lot of fun details added, especially in 1/TLL, but I think the style they went for just doesn't feel as stylised as World, and in the case of Mario 2 I think some of the aesthetic details actually make stages look less distinct from one another (the ice stages reuse the clouds from grass levels, and have a similar blue sky instead of purple for instance) I typically love gradient backgrounds, but the ones used in SMAS feel very... cheap? and the backgrounds as a whole outside of Mario 3 all feel a bit cluttered - generally Mario 3 looks the best, and I wouldn't be surprised if the SNES version was developed concurrently with the NES version (not confirmed, all speculation). I can't really pinpoint what I dislike about the remade aesthetics as a whole beyond the vague idea of stylisation (I think it has to do with shading and outlines though), but I'd assume from a BTS perspective it's a result of SMAS being basically a direct port with a 16-bit reskin, so while the graphics could be bigger they couldn't be too much bigger.
Admittedly a lot of it comes from my personal bias of 16 bit aesthetics (all Stars included) generally aging better than 8 bit. Mario 3 I will say does lose some of its idiosyncratic qualities in the jump to the SNES, but for Mario 2 I'd say the changes amount to a lateral move and with Mario 1/Lost Levels the All Stars versions are the ones that come to mind when I think about it. In the case of Mario 1/Lost Levels it likely helped that they were heavily utilized for all sorts of Flash games so that particular art style just stuck long after I stopped playing All Stars regularly.
In hindsight I think it was a bit of a wasted opportunity not to do a 16 bit remake/remaster of the NES Zelda games. Mario All Stars made for very polished versions of the 8 bit Mario titles, and (while fairly different) Zero Mission effectively allowed for a very welcoming variation of the first Metroid. The first two Zelda releases were strong games that honestly deserved an update to the kind of well-aged graphical style the SNES/GBA mastered.
The Satellaview game fans have preserved is an interesting what if, but I think a fully dedicated (and localized) Zelda I/II remake project complete with more distinct aesthetics would have been really special.
I actually agree, because the potential for full blown remasters of Zelda I and II would result in a better end product by far. Am a little more confident in the first game however, cause it's the age old 2D Zelda formula we're all familiar with in the end.
Zelda II is more of its own thing, could use a little more work cause it's difficulty and overall awkwardness don't help it in the slightest. If they had to take a direction I hope it takes more from the full 2D platforming segments of Links Awakening and Echoes of Wisdom. That would have great potential, especially with more RPG elements thrown in, like the original Zelda II did. Which might even make way for another new style of Zelda games if it becomes a success both in sales and reception.
I do see potential in this idea, and I sure hope the Zelda team doesn't stop with the remakes. Rumors has it Ocarina of Time is up next, but this has untapped potential too in my opinion.
Zelda II absolutely needs to be used as the basis of a sidescrolling spin-off. Iron out the archaic wrinkles, add more ability variety, better graphical detail and animations, and item variety, and you've got the basis of something good.
Zelda 1, I'm honestly fine with it being left as it is. ALttP pretty much expanded its manual framing into a real story and properly expanded all the gameplay elements, while OoT recontextualized its core elements while feeling distinct enough. There's precisely no way a "faithful" Zelda 1 remake won't feel like a step backwards.
I’ve had trouble putting into words why I don’t want a Nintendo Kart, but I think I’ve finally found a succinct way to put it: the crossover aspect of Smash isn’t something you can just replicate. Hence, I think it would be more worth the effort to create a Mario Kart game that properly celebrates the history of Mario and the adjacent franchises like Luigi’s Mansion and Donkey Kong.
I’ve had trouble putting into words why I don’t want a Nintendo Kart, but I think I’ve finally found a succinct way to put it: the crossover aspect of Smash isn’t something you can just replicate. Hence, I think it would be more worth the effort to create a Mario Kart game that properly celebrates the history of Mario and the adjacent franchises like Luigi’s Mansion and Donkey Kong.
I think the reason I'm against a Nintendo Kart is that the Mario universe and all the adjacent ones still have so much potential for new characters and tracks. Mario Kart isn't tired yet so there isn't a need to change it's identity.
Also, I know that if Nintendo Kart happened, it would mean no more cool original tracks. No more cool malls or airports or...Madrid.
I somewhat disagree with this sentiment, but it depends on what 16 bit aesthetics you're talking about - I can understand the perspective of 16-bit graphics as a whole being better than 8-bit, even though I disagree, Sega's earliest Genesis games were all beautiful, and 8-bit-era arcade games set the standards very high - but early first-party Nintendo games on the SNES typically had unappealing sprites IMO - a lot of the earlier SNES games had weird shading/colouring choices (all the boxers in Super Punch Out and planes in Pilotwings look weirdly... rubbery? In Star Fox, Fox looks like a British breakfast), cluttered backgrounds (All-Stars), and sprites that tended to either feel way too detailed or like their source character design was too detailed to properly adapt without resorting to sacrifices, (see: Link looking like an off-brand Womble) - all stuff I can't put into words, even the games I think visually hold up from that era like EarthBound, Kirby's Dream Course, and Super Mario World had a lot of weird off-model and inconsistent sprites littered about, particularly in relation to outline colour and length. The only 1P game I've seen that I can say consistently looks good without any strange outliers from this era is Vegas Stakes (HAL in general were ahead of the pack for sprites on SNES) - and when Nintendo and their partners' output started to really get good visually around 1995 - Yoshi's Island, Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon, Kirby 3 and Fun Pak, all of Rare's pre-rendered stuff - they got so good that it's hard to say those games even have a "16-bit aesthetic", they feel more in the Earthworm Jim/Boogerman/Aladdin school of "interactive cartoon", despite not having smooth animation. The best-looking Nintendo games on SNES that also look like the cultural idea of a "SNES game" are probably all the weird niche post-N64 Sattelaview games. Sutte Hakkun and Wrecking Crew 98 come to mind. Marvelous is pretty directly based on ALTTP graphically but is also way easier on the eyes for - as the great George Wood said about ALTTP - some unknown reason
I'm not an art critic though, I don't know if anything I said makes sense. People go crazy for these games' graphics so there might be something I'm missing - it might just be a subconcious bias against the early Nintendo house-style given how, as you mentioned, games like ALTTP and Mario All-Stars often had their graphics used in amatuer internet content in the 2000s, and I've never exactly jived with that Newgrounds/Homestar Runner visual style, despite otherwise adoring unconventional and amateur styles. And, at the very least, no SNES first party game is more inconsistent than Yoshi's Island DS
EDIT, 3 HOURS LATER: why did i write this. was i that tired??? 16 line essay about how link to the past looks ugly?????? i mean it does, but like, i shouldn't be having this kind of beef with any intellectual property that would've lapsed by now if cher's husband didn't step in. the post i'm responding to is multiple days old and wasn't even directed at me specifically
I’ve had trouble putting into words why I don’t want a Nintendo Kart, but I think I’ve finally found a succinct way to put it: the crossover aspect of Smash isn’t something you can just replicate. Hence, I think it would be more worth the effort to create a Mario Kart game that properly celebrates the history of Mario and the adjacent franchises like Luigi’s Mansion and Donkey Kong.
That is an interesting point about the various different style choices with 16 bits. I guess for me the SNES generation activates a sense in my mind of artwork that's (for lack of a better word) alive in some way. 8-bit aesthetics, especially characters are impressive given the limitations they had to work with, but it all feels video game-y I guess. It's like the difference between a theatrical presentation that immerses you vs one that's technically more skilled in production but always feels like a play. One just hits emotionally differently.
That is an interesting point about the various different style choices with 16 bits. I guess for me the SNES generation activates a sense in my mind of artwork that's (for lack of a better word) alive in some way. 8-bit aesthetics, especially characters are impressive given the limitations they had to work with, but it all feels video game-y I guess. It's like the difference between a theatrical presentation that immerses you vs one that's technically more skilled in production but always feels like a play. One just hits emotionally differently.
To me, I don't really consider a video game being video game-y as a negative - I adore the beep boopey aesthetic and vibe of a vintage Namco hit, but I can understand why someone who either didn't grow up on classics, or witnessed the "out with X-bits, in with double-X-bits!" marketing of the 90s in real time would not want to go back to that - I grew up on retro games in the 2010s/2000s, and I think I've conditioned myself not to use my imagination but rather just accept "this is a world where everyone is made of squares" and take it as straight-forward and diegetic as any other aesthetic, which goes for every other retro generation - "this world is black and white", "this is a world where trees are flat and brick walls have warping JPG artefacts", "this is a world where seahorses chase geometric squares through hallways" - to me, that is second nature and as easy to accept as "this is a world where grassy fields have loop-de-loops" or "this is a world where you can jump into paintings" - if you're not trained to either do that or use your imagination as was intended, I can imagine it being a hard skill to learn. I think 8-bit games can hit emotionally just as hard as a 16-bit game, it's just that not many went through the effort of doing so for a multitude of factors. All 3 cutscenes in Gimmick are amazing for instance.
The NES Mega Man games have rather nice endings too, and if you want something really conventionally video-game-y and Pac-Man-esque, Donkey Kong Jr. is a good reference point, particularly on the NES where a slow, somber version of the orginal arcade ending theme was added to the title screen alongside the happy version (though DK Sr's extra frames of animation and Mario getting KTFO are arcade-specific plusses too) - and that's not even getting into the Game Boy which is a whole different bag of worms given how it ran basically into the 2000s if you consider it and Color to be one. (and for the purposes of this discussion, it is since both are 8-bit) Avenging Spirit's good ending is a fascinating comparison because the monochrome 8-bit incarnation is close-to-objectively the better one compared to the 16-bit arcade rendition, both in terms of the artistic and animation quality, but also how the imagery complements the dialog.
For reference: this is a game where your protagonist is murdered and his girlfriend is kidnapped, so a scientist temporarily revives him as a ghost to rescue her before he passes on - the good ending can only be achieved by possessing your girlfriend and beating the boss as her, and the end dialog is from the perspective of the protagonist inside the woman's body, not the woman herself.
I wish Nintendo would embrace the wider Mario-verse in spin-offs. We get Diddy Kong and sometimes a Luigi's Mansion stage in stuff - but they could do so much more. Why not bring characters like K Rool, E Gadd and the WarioWare gang into the fold?
I think the nintendo switch online pass is worth the money, and has been for a while now, but the problems with drip feeding and locking certain content behind the pass that shouldn’t be locked behind a pass are still there and likely will always be.
To me, I don't really consider a video game being video game-y as a negative - I adore the beep boopey aesthetic and vibe of a vintage Namco hit, but I can understand why someone who either didn't grow up on classics, or witnessed the "out with X-bits, in with double-X-bits!" marketing of the 90s in real time would not want to go back to that - I grew up on retro games in the 2010s/2000s, and I think I've conditioned myself not to use my imagination but rather just accept "this is a world where everyone is made of squares" and take it as straight-forward and diegetic as any other aesthetic, which goes for every other retro generation - "this world is black and white", "this is a world where trees are flat and brick walls have warping JPG artefacts", "this is a world where seahorses chase geometric squares through hallways" - to me, that is second nature and as easy to accept as "this is a world where grassy fields have loop-de-loops" or "this is a world where you can jump into paintings" - if you're not trained to either do that or use your imagination as was intended, I can imagine it being a hard skill to learn. I think 8-bit games can hit emotionally just as hard as a 16-bit game, it's just that not many went through the effort of doing so for a multitude of factors. All 3 cutscenes in Gimmick are amazing for instance.
The NES Mega Man games have rather nice endings too, and if you want something really conventionally video-game-y and Pac-Man-esque, Donkey Kong Jr. is a good reference point, particularly on the NES where a slow, somber version of the orginal arcade ending theme was added to the title screen alongside the happy version (though DK Sr's extra frames of animation and Mario getting KTFO are arcade-specific plusses too) - and that's not even getting into the Game Boy which is a whole different bag of worms given how it ran basically into the 2000s if you consider it and Color to be one. (and for the purposes of this discussion, it is since both are 8-bit) Avenging Spirit's good ending is a fascinating comparison because the monochrome 8-bit incarnation is close-to-objectively the better one compared to the 16-bit arcade rendition, both in terms of the artistic and animation quality, but also how the imagery complements the dialog.
For reference: this is a game where your protagonist is murdered and his girlfriend is kidnapped, so a scientist temporarily revives him as a ghost to rescue her before he passes on - the good ending can only be achieved by possessing your girlfriend and beating the boss as her, and the end dialog is from the perspective of the protagonist inside the woman's body, not the woman herself.
I think the contrast in imagination is why 16 bit hits harder for me that 8 bit. The best 4th gen titles personally nailed that sweet spot of having enough details to make it either pop (your Sonics) or seem oddly real (your Donkey Kong Countries and Super Mario RPG) while the imagination filled in the rest. I get of some of what Casinopolis is like and those cool backgrounds let my mind go wild as to what's going on with them. I play Ghostly Grove and the combination of the melancholy Forest Interlude song, the semi-lighted forest as part of the backdrop, the little paths going into darkness in background? It so thoroughly creates a detailed setting that my mind seamlessly filled in the blanks for.
When certain later generation games become too detailed, the little flaws ruined the immersion and as noted the imagination I utilized for 8 bit titles often didn't really render a world/setting that was terribly interesting even when fully formed. Genesis and SNES titles though? They lit the spark to allow my own creativity to do the rest.
I might get murdered for this by both my fellow anti-Nintendo Kart warriors and the Nintendo Kart defense squad, but the non-gaming-related lineup of Mario Maker's DLC is a better Mario guest character roster than MK8D. Once you put aside the temporary shock value, you're left with a bunch of silly goobers who fit in the Mario universe quite well and have a little more appeal to the mainstream Mario Kart audience that isn't engaged with outer-Nintendo-franchise affairs (at least assuming Chitoge is a recognisable character in her native Japan, I wouldn't know and of course the fact that mario kart is so more recognisable than any of nintendo's other ips including mario platformers is probably why the crossover characters were added in the first place). The non-gaming element distinguishes it from Smash quite a bit and, despite having more hands in the pot, feels less brand-association-cult-builder-ey. Babymetal I could take or leave, more on virtue of them being real people, and if this was the sole approach to crossover content you'd have to sprinkle in a little more Western content (though a majority of these 5 are still universally recognisable over here either way).
I’ve had trouble putting into words why I don’t want a Nintendo Kart, but I think I’ve finally found a succinct way to put it: the crossover aspect of Smash isn’t something you can just replicate. Hence, I think it would be more worth the effort to create a Mario Kart game that properly celebrates the history of Mario and the adjacent franchises like Luigi’s Mansion and Donkey Kong.
Mario Kart with more DK, Wario, Yoshi, and RPG presence would be great as its own thing.
F-Zero would be great as its own thing should it come back in full.
And I'm vouching for Zelda to have a horse-raising and racing spin-off as a combo-successor to Nintendogs and the equestrian stuff from Mario Sports Superstars.
But put them all together? No.
That said, I think the crossover aspect of Smash could at least be explored by its own spin-offs (that aren't racing).
EDIT, 3 HOURS LATER: why did i write this. was i that tired??? 16 line essay about how link to the past looks ugly?????? i mean it does, but like, i shouldn't be having this kind of beef with any intellectual property that would've lapsed by now if cher's husband didn't step in. the post i'm responding to is multiple days old and wasn't even directed at me specifically
Okay seriously, why are you still on this site? I don't like the overlong copyright terms either, but you're literally on a site about a video game series MADE FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT IPs.
Heck, even if we miraculously get a global agreement to severely cut down copyright terms, that's not going to stop Nintendo or any company from making stuff about the fictional universes their employees created.
Okay seriously, why are you still on this site? I don't like the overlong copyright terms either, but you're literally on a site about a video game series MADE FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT IPs.
Heck, even if we miraculously get a global agreement to severely cut down copyright terms, that's not going to stop Nintendo or any company from making stuff about the fictional universes their employees created.
... I'm not saying Nintendo should ever stop making Zelda games?? I was really just saying "these games are really old, I shouldn't be having beef with them" in a humourous way, this post otherwise had nothing to do with copyright law - I like to talk about things by making quips and referencing things in passing - I grew up on a lot of reference-driven comedy, it's practically how I'm wired to communicate - that doesn't mean those things are what the conversation is about or they even have any relevance beyond just being a funny way to talk about the subject. The rest of the post is about graphics, I wrote it while tired and forgot I posted it, and came back to see I wrote a needlessly long post about how I think some 30 year old games look ugly, which confused me, and I made a hyperbolic statement that isn't even true because I thought it was a funny way to communicate how old these games are - if I called these games "dinosaurs", that doesn't mean I'm raging against chicxulub. I can't believe I have to explain things this inconsequential word-by-word like a Scorseze director's commentary.
Yeah, I made too much of a big deal about it. Apologies.
But admittedly, I've been personally starting to find hyperbolism more and more irritating, probably because rampant internet stupidity is making it a lot harder to tell what is satire or not.
This is not directed specifically at you or even this site in particular by any means, but it's just something I just need to get off my chest and trying to reflect on why I'm growing increasingly intolerant of hyperbole.
I've been grappling with this thought in my head, and I think I have to come to terms with it now:
Wario has NO POTENTIAL as a franchise
At most he only really works as a name to stick to an otherwise wholly original game to make it sell. But as for having his own "special corner" of the Mario universe? Sorry, but it just can't happen.
CTTOI, I think that's they very reason why more people care about Donkey Kong as its own entity as opposed to Wario; at least Donkey Kong HAS potential as a franchise (as much as I insist that it remain a "quality-over-quantity" series with a small main cast as it is now). Wario's pretty much a lone wolf who pores over news and rumors beating guys up for money, not a guy who plays well with others or even holds real grudges against people. As far as Wario goes, he only really cares if you're gonna give him money, or if beating you up will give him money.
It doesn't help that the three European regions are largely similar in climate. If one was based on like Sweden and was concerned in snow, I think Laniv
would be a bit more forgiving.
Regardless there are so many other continents that they've ignored.
It doesn't help that the three European regions are largely similar in climate. If one was based on like Sweden and was concerned in snow, I think Laniv
would be a bit more forgiving.
Regardless there are so many other continents that they've ignored.
If the rumor about the next region being an archipelago pans out, it feels like a 50:50 on this front. My biggest guesses would be Greece + the Aegean Islands archipelago (Europe) and Indonesia (not Europe).
I'd be fine with either one but the latter would be much preferred as of right now, imo.
I've been out of Pokemon for a while but from what I can gather, it's like a band going on a "global tour." That is to say, the only parts of the world covered are the US, Europe, and Japan, and everything else is left to dry.
If the rumor about the next region being an archipelago pans out, it feels like a 50:50 on this front. My biggest guesses would be Greece + the Aegean Islands archipelago (Europe) and Indonesia (not Europe).
I'd be fine with either one but the latter would be much preferred as of right now, imo.
Legends Z-A is actually foreshadowing that it's going to be Kalos 2. It's like Kalos, but 75% of the landmass is now underwater, thus forming an archipelago
I really like how Link's Awakening handled crossover content, and TBH it might actually be the best implementation of crossovers in a Nintendo game and that's because well... it isn't a crossover. Aside from the one Yoshi meta-joke, it's not "Oooh, Dr. Wright traveled from the Sim City Simematic Universe to help Link! Wow!", it's just simply "Oh yeah, Goombas exist in the Zelda dream universe too!" You guys know how nuts I am for the public domain and copyright reform, and it's something I try not to talk about 24/7, but it does really give me the vibes of how common PD characters like Dracula are used - when you use Dracula in a story, you're not inherently implying "this is a shared universe with the Dracula novel" or "Dracula can travel through the multiverse", your universe just coincidentally has a Transylvanian vampire named Dracula, and it's a shame that even when everything is under one roof, it's not easy to just recycle characters like that without it being a big deal, needing some kind of convoluted explanation, or - on fans' part - being taken to have massive implications for the game world(s) (If you count Banjo as a Nintendo game - which you shouldn't IMO - those games had great use of recycled characters from earlier and cancelled Rare games, Saberman; Gnawty; Tiptup; e.t.c. but a lot of people took that a little literally...)
Mario X Peach not being an official ship (anymore) is awesome. It's a really nice message for kids that romance isn't a reward, and it makes a good contrast when Bowser is shown to be a bit creepy like in the CGI movie.
Mario X Peach not being an official ship (anymore) is awesome. It's a really nice message for kids that romance isn't a reward, and it makes a good contrast when Bowser is shown to be a bit creepy like in the CGI movie.
Making an official break up story about this and implementing it somehow would be wonderful honestly. You can create something funny, educative and potentially dramatic out of it. I'm for it.
Donkey Kong's awkward phase and lack of real direction didn't start in the 2000s, it started on the N64, and had virtually nothing to do with Rare's departure. DK64 and Diddy Kong Racing - regardless of quality - both have as many weird off-beat eccentricities in both game design and aesthetics as the 2000s DK games, arguably more, the prior taking a more "wacky 90s cartoon" approach and the latter veering borderline into preschool territory with its giggling child sound effects and a cast cuddlier than even Kirby's - and all of Rare's cancelled DK projects looked to be just as weird and disconnected from Country (lest I remind you one of them was reworked into a game titled "Mr. Pants"). Even DK's representation in Mario games before the buyout was a little bit off and felt a tiny bit more selective about what is "Donkey Kong World" vs. "The Donkey Kong from the Mario World". I am not insulting late-stage Rare-DK here, or trying to claim any era is better or worse, mind you, moreso saying that 2000s DK wasn't much of a shift in front of the screen, regardless of what was going on behind closed doors.
Donkey Kong's awkward phase and lack of real direction didn't start in the 2000s, it started on the N64, and had virtually nothing to do with Rare's departure. DK64 and Diddy Kong Racing - regardless of quality - both have as many weird off-beat eccentricities in both game design and aesthetics as the 2000s DK games, arguably more, the prior taking a more "wacky 90s cartoon" approach and the latter veering borderline into preschool territory with its giggling child sound effects and a cast cuddlier than even Kirby's - and all of Rare's cancelled DK projects looked to be just as weird and disconnected from Country (lest I remind you one of them was reworked into a game titled "Mr. Pants"). Even DK's representation in Mario games before the buyout was a little bit off and felt a tiny bit more selective about what is "Donkey Kong World" vs. "The Donkey Kong from the Mario World". I am not insulting late-stage Rare-DK here, or trying to claim any era is better or worse, mind you, moreso saying that 2000s DK wasn't much of a shift in front of the screen, regardless of what was going on behind closed doors.
There definitely is a distinctiveness to that late 97-2001 period of Donkey Kong that feels a bit contrasting to what came immediately before and after. The ACM graphics and tone of the SNES games definitely play a factor; no DK ever quite hit the same kind of occasional melancholy like that Country trilogy did. One can also sense Mario spin-offs trying to figure out how to incorporate DK and making for odd results. DK Jr appearing alongside the modern DK in Mario Tennis is something that could only happen in that very narrow window when the latter was introduced and before Diddy basically was concluded to be the mainline sidekick for him in stuff like a Mario Kart.
That aughts period in general has a decently impressive incorporation of Donkey Kong into some Mario adjacent titles (K Rool getting into Sluggers to name one stand out example). However, the lack of straightforward mainline release, the perceived reliance on gimmicks (see the Bongos and peg board spin-offs), and the diminished role of DK in overall Nintendo marketing (which really can be linked back to Pokemon and Zelda joining Mario as the new big three in 1998)? It quickly rendered the reputation of the franchise as a haven for wacky experiments than focused releases.
It's why the reputation of a DKR or even DK64 still skews better/more prominently than a Jungle Beat despite the shared distance they all might have to the Country games or the eccentricities of the N64 games. The context (and timing) of the former two allowed them to be much more easily embraced than the latter.
Donkey Kong's awkward phase and lack of real direction didn't start in the 2000s, it started on the N64, and had virtually nothing to do with Rare's departure. DK64 and Diddy Kong Racing - regardless of quality - both have as many weird off-beat eccentricities in both game design and aesthetics as the 2000s DK games, arguably more, the prior taking a more "wacky 90s cartoon" approach and the latter veering borderline into preschool territory with its giggling child sound effects and a cast cuddlier than even Kirby's - and all of Rare's cancelled DK projects looked to be just as weird and disconnected from Country (lest I remind you one of them was reworked into a game titled "Mr. Pants"). Even DK's representation in Mario games before the buyout was a little bit off and felt a tiny bit more selective about what is "Donkey Kong World" vs. "The Donkey Kong from the Mario World". I am not insulting late-stage Rare-DK here, or trying to claim any era is better or worse, mind you, moreso saying that 2000s DK wasn't much of a shift in front of the screen, regardless of what was going on behind closed doors.
Do keep in mind that Diddy Kong Racing is a special and specific case in that it wasn't actually intended to be a Donkey Kong spinoff game originally, it was originally a standalone revival of Rare's old Pro-Am property that was going to star Timber.
It's just that Diddy was slapped onto it to make it sell more, as it was now meant to replace Banjo-Kazooie (which got delayed into 1998 of course) as the N64's big holiday release in 1997.
That would more or less explain why it's so radically tonally different from other DK games, and why Timber remains the game's most important focal story character (being the one who summons the other racers to come help fend off his and his parent's island from Wizpig going by the manual) even after being usurped by Diddy.
Do keep in mind that Diddy Kong Racing is a special and specific case in that it wasn't actually intended to be a Donkey Kong spinoff game originally, it was originally a standalone revival of Rare's old Pro-Am property that was going to star Timber.
It's just that Diddy was slapped onto it to make it sell more, as it was now meant to replace Banjo-Kazooie (which got delayed into 1998 of course) as the N64's big holiday release in 1997.
That would more or less explain why it's so radically tonally different from other DK games, and why Timber remains the game's most important focal story character (being the one who summons the other racers to come help fend off his and his parent's island from Wizpig going by the manual) even after being usurped by Diddy.
I was aware of this when posting - ultimately I'm not really sure if the BTS story matters that much, and if it does, I guess I can say it speaks a bit that they chose Diddy and not say, Peach or Yoshi, even if that's likely just the result of Rare being attached.
I think Diddy Kong Racing is helped by being one of the best games on a console with limited options
It's also not like Donkey Kong 64 is or ever was universally beloved, it's gotten a lot of **** over the years and one of the reasons is it's massive departures from the SNES games
