The New Tier List

[ballin4life]

Luigi can legitimately 0 to death most characters so his combos are definitely not weak

Example? Especially on a short character like pikachu where you can't drill as easy.

 

[blaze3927]

did this in a online match recently,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m46_iczsZp4

if that isnt easy then i dont know what is

and he doesnt even need to 0 to death them , for most characters if you get a uiar on them at 30-60% it can lead to either
uair firepucnh
uair uair firepunch
uair dair uair firepunch etc....

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I don't know if the lag was painful to play in, but it sure was definitely painful to watch lol.

oh, and nice combo

 

[blaze3927]

oh nah i accidently set it to 25fps recording in fraps :\ not thinking it would literally slow the bloody thing down (i just thought it would be same speed lower quality), but at least you can see that he cant really get out of it, this guy is pretty good at DI aswell, so easy and effective

 

[Deleted member]

Example? Especially on a short character like pikachu where you can't drill as easy.

drill --> fast falled up-air in same short hop, one up-air, up-b

dead pika


I have seen some Malva vids that do this but I think those were online and he took them down


but if you want to see some other raep combo vids look up Isai Luigi vs Tigerbombz Pika

 

[Snowmanthatknows]

I know Link's recovery is bad and all, but tier C? Really?

 

[asianaussie]

It's based on matchups - Link has two extremely bad ones, and several bad ones. Also, many of his moves come out too slowly, he is a fairly easy combo target and he has the aforementioned poor recovery.

 

[FatJackieChan]

How did Ness move down so far?

 

[killa k]

How did Ness move down so far?

Because his recovery is awful.

 

[FatJackieChan]

That makes sense... Wait, it took you guys until now to realize that his recovery was bad?

 

[Fireblaster]

That makes sense... Wait, it took you guys until now to realize that his recovery was bad?

We realized that playing to win against ness makes him suck

 

[greenblob]

I like this tier list. I would like it even more if Ness were above Jiggs, but whatever.
The only thing Jiggs has going for her is only being slightly ***** by Pikachu, Kirby, and Falcon (as opposed to being completely *****).

 

[ballin4life]

I'm pretty sure pika vs jiggs is a ++ matchup on the chart.

Also ness moved down (as we've explained 10 million times in the thread) because his recovery is the worst, his approach is bad, and he has bad combo finishers (only dair really and it's tough to combo into that).

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I seem to like this tier list too, man, this is like Mario 1st time being high tier in the Smash series. I hate to see Ness, having the biggest drop due to characters gaying his recovery and having a poor approach.

 

[MarioMariox2]

I seem to like this tier list too, man, this is like Mario 1st time being high tier in the Smash series. I hate to see Ness, having the biggest drop due to characters gaying his recovery and having a poor approach.

Well, not quite the 1st. Mario was high tier in the early metagame of Melee. I think it was 05-06?

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I looked at the smash wiki past melee tier lists, and for the first list, Mario was actually 4th. But for every tier list change, Mario has gone down in position (except for the 2nd/3rd lists, where he is in 6th place for both).

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Well, not quite the 1st. Mario was high tier in the early metagame of Melee. I think it was 05-06?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, my bad, oopz. lul

 

[malva00]

Isai's Tier List

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Fox
4. Falcon
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Yoshi
8-9 Ness/Luigi WHO KNOWS
10. DK
11. Link
12. Samus

Isai's Hyrule Only Tier List

1 .Pikachu
2. Fox
3. Kirby
4. Falcon
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7-8 Yoshi/Ness THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW
9-10 Link/Luigi I DUNNO
11. DK
12. Samus

Isai's Dreamland Only Tier List

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3-4 Fox/Falcon BEATS ME
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Yoshi
8. Luigi
9-10 Ness/DK TOUGH CALL
11. Samus
12. Link

Isai's Best Character List

1. Pikachu
2. Fox
3-4 Falcon/Kirby GOOD QUESTION
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Luigi
8. Link
9. DK
10. Yoshi
11. Ness
12. Samus

EDIT: changed Yoshi/Ness status on hyrule only tier list

 

[Sasha]

I agree with Isai because he's FRIGGIN ISAI.

/fanboyism

 

[NixxxoN]

first time ive seen isai posting tiers stuff.

I dont get how you think DK is better on dreamland rather than Hyrule (rapetent grab chains)

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

dk is so good on dreamland, you don't even know

 

[H0lyQuebec]

Isai's Tier List

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3. Fox
4. Falcon
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Yoshi
8-9 Ness/Luigi WHO KNOWS
10. DK
11. Link
12. Samus

Isai's Hyrule Only Tier List

1 .Pikachu
2. Fox
3. Kirby
4. Falcon
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Yoshi
8. Ness
9-10 Link/Luigi I DUNNO
11. DK
12. Samus

Isai's Dreamland Only Tier List

1. Pikachu
2. Kirby
3-4 Fox/Falcon BEATS ME
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Yoshi
8. Luigi
9-10 Ness/DK TOUGH CALL
11. Samus
12. Link

Isai's Best Character List

1. Pikachu
2. Fox
3-4 Falcon/Kirby GOOD QUESTION
5. Mario
6. JigglyPuff
7. Luigi
8. Link
9. DK
10. Yoshi
11. Ness
12. Samus

MATTS Tier List:

1. Kirby
2. Kirby
3. Kirby
4. Kirby
5. Kirby
6. Kirby
7. Kirby
8. Kirby
9. Kirby
10. Kirby
11. Kirby
12. Kirby

MATTS' Hyrule Only Tier List

1. Kirby
2. Kirby
3. Kirby
4. Kirby
5. Kirby
6. Kirby
7. Kirby
8. Kirby
9. Kirby
10. Kirby
11. Kirby
12. Kirby

MATTS' Dreamland Only Tier List

1. Kirby
2. Kirby
3. Kirby
4. Kirby
5. Kirby
6. Kirby
7. Kirby
8. Kirby
9. Kirby
10. Kirby
11. Kirby
12. Kirby

MATTS' Best Character List

1. Kirby
2. Kirby
3. Kirby
4. Kirby
5. Kirby
6. Kirby
7. Kirby
8. Kirby
9. Kirby
10. Kirby
11. Kirby
12. Kirby

PWNED OWNED BEST BEST UTILTUTILTUTILTUTILT 100000% BETTER

what wut? HI FIRST POST

 

[blaze3927]

I've never seen a video of isai playing yoshi

and ness above samus on dreamland?

if your ness and you get knocked off the edge your pretty much screwed unless your opposition is reatrted or makes a mistake (pikachu can edge guard a ness effectively solely wth fsmash), the only advantage ness has on dreamland is that he is more likely to get the spike/low percentage combo.

btw has anyone seen a ness combo longer than 5 hits without the use of TAS or a wall?

 

[ciaza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZRWbnRP_pA, pretty sure that's not tas. EDIT: He never actually specifically states whether it is or not, even the comments seem pretty undecided. Either way they're not impossible to do.

 

[Thino]

(pikachu can edge guard a ness effectively solely wth fsmash)

wtf man , which ness players have you been playing against?

 

[greenblob]

I've been fair-chained across Dreamland by Ness before.

 

[ballin4life]

I've never seen a video of isai playing yoshi

and ness above samus on dreamland?

if your ness and you get knocked off the edge your pretty much screwed unless your opposition is reatrted or makes a mistake (pikachu can edge guard a ness effectively solely wth fsmash), the only advantage ness has on dreamland is that he is more likely to get the spike/low percentage combo.

btw has anyone seen a ness combo longer than 5 hits without the use of TAS or a wall?

Pikachu can edgeguard almost all the characters with fsmash only.

Also 6 hit ness combo at 1:25 ZOMG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1jWIrw8PnE

 

[malva00]

And I think you have to emphasise that's isais tier list on dreamland, just whatever works best for you.

Don't confuse people that's what I think the tier list would be if the game was only dreamland.

has nothing to do with my best characters which you can see in my best character list; and no I didn't make an Isai's Dreamland/Hyrule only best character list cuz then that would be too many lists!

edited my hyrule only tier list

 

[DMoogle]

and ness above samus on dreamland?

I used to think that Dreamland was probably one of the worst stages for Ness, but not I'm not so sure. Ledges are VERY MUCH double-edged swords for him, he's probably the best edgeguarder after Pikachu, but he obviously has one of the worst recoveries. My recent Ness results there have been surprisingly (to me, at least) positive. However, I admit my sample size is rather small, so I'll have to play there more to come to a better conclusion.

And one thing that people tend to not factor in to Ness' positive attributes is his fantastic tech-chasing pseudo-comboing ability. The reason it's not a combo is, obviously, that the person comboing doesn't know right off the bat where his opponent's position is going to be next (and DI isn't factored in to whether something is a combo or not), but when Ness is fast enough to follow up with an attack large percentage of the time no matter of the direction that the opponent techs in, it effectively doesn't matter.

EDIT: And Isai, I'm assuming "Isai's Best Character List" is a list of what you think your best characters are on an absolute basis? What about on a relative basis?

 

[Gammelnorsk]

tbh i think jigglypuff owns

 

[firo]

and ness above samus on dreamland?

Although Hyrule is certainly better for Ness, I feel that Dreamland isn't as bad as sometimes it is made out to be. Ness's lackluster approach works better here as the stage is small, and having the platform near the ledge gives Ness maybe one more recovery option. Obviously if the Ness gets thrown off he's probably done, but characters like Fox or Falcon are at a large disadvantage also if Ness can either throw or hit them off.

 

[Silk]

After a little over two months of debating Match-Ups, the Smash 64 Community have come up with the new and improved official Tier List. All of that can be found in this topic.

S Tier
(1)Pikachu
(2)Fox​

A Tier
(3)Kirby
(4)Falcon
(5)Mario​

B Tier
(6)Yoshi
(7)DK
(8)Jigglypuff
(9)Ness​

C Tier
(10)Luigi
(11)Link​

(12)Samus​

Only insignificant thing I question is Yoshi over DK, and how close Ness and Luigi really are, I'm not too sure if it's such a crazy thing to say that Link and Samus belong in the C Tier by themselves, I'd say they are beyond a doubt the hardest characters to do well with.

 

[blaze3927]

yoshi has DJC, Parry, and invulnerability during his jump. Sure DK is awesome but at pro level (which the tiers are for) yoshi has the edge

 

[DMoogle]

yoshi has DJC, Parry, and invulnerability during his jump. Sure DK is awesome but at pro level (which the tiers are for) yoshi has the edge

There's no such thing as pro level.

 

[asianaussie]

I'm not too sure if it's such a crazy thing to say that Link and Samus belong in the C Tier by themselves, I'd say they are beyond a doubt the hardest characters to do well with.

Hard to do well with =/= low on the tier list. It's measuring super-theorycraft potential, not how hard it is to do well with a character.

 

[blaze3927]

There's no such thing as pro level.

I was under the impression that the tiers were assuming pro level play? am i correct or just gramatically confused xD

 

[DemonicInfluence]

Tier assume high levels of play, but not necessarily godly levels.
~ImNotPro

 

[DMoogle]

As it hasn't been defined yet, "pro level" would be a relative term, and completely useless to us.

Unless we define it (as it should be defined) as someone who makes money from the game, but (1) some of the best players in the world haven't made a dime from this game, and (2) that doesn't stop it from being a relative term when it comes to skill level.

 

[ballin4life]

Dumb semantics. By pro level he just means really good (which is of course relative)

 

[cubaisdeath]

its also hard to be a pro when the game doesn't have a league or circuit