The New Tier List And Why No One Loves Bowser...

[B!squick]

ADDENDUM: Also, D Tier may be considered a borderline Middle/Low Tier. We leave it up to the Tournament Organizer's discretion on deciding whether or not to include D Tier for low tier events.

You know... I was only kidding when I said I wanted to use Bowser in Low Tier tournies. >.>

Anyway, Bowser dropped again. Discuss sad thoughts here.

 

[MrEh]

One step closer to true low tier.

Common guys, let's try as hard as possible to lose! XD


Way to go Sonic mains for stepping it up. ^^

 

[Flayl]

I'm not surprised at all at Bowser's placement, I am however pretty surprised at the rest of the tier list.

 

[calv]

I don't think it matters what tier people think Bowser is, if anything it's better for us Bowser mainers that he's so low, especially if we do well, then we can boast about winning with a someone thats considered useless.

Plus... we all know he's secretly super awesome :D

 

[Uffe]

Yup. Pretty upsetting, isn't it? However, did things really change for the characters' metagames? I'm sure Pikachu got a boost in getting higher because of his CG on certain opponents. However, besides that, I don't think anything really changed except placings in tournaments. If nothing changed in the metagame, then characters who got a boost in this new tier list are going to have to keep it that way.

I hate this new list. Things that could have been a little more different changed. There is now no SS or G rank. Why?

 

[B!squick]

His metagame changed quite a bit actually. Liquid Gen discovered 101 new things to do like Bowser was peanut butter. We even have a somewhat situational pivot regrab infinite on MK.

The biggest problem is no one plays Bowser in tournies, I think. Can't really blame the SBR if no one knows what the Big Guy can really do. MrEh can't do everything, you know.

 

[MrEh]

I'm not that influential to be honest. I'm in Hawaii for God's sake.

Bowser is just a character who deserved to be send down a bit. He might rise if Bowser's start wrecking tournaments in influential areas, like the East Cost, but as for now, he'll probably remain in D tier for a long time.

 

[B!squick]

I know man, but you're the only Bowser main I know who plays in tournies extensively. There's also Serg in my home state, but he rarely posts, so that just leaves you MrEh. :D

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I feel bad for the Bowsers.

I want to pick up a low or mid tier character because I kind of think it's everyone-who-takes-the-game-seriously's duty to advance the metagame for characters other than their own, especially low tier.

I just can't play him, though. I've tried. I just can't space with him and there are so few new Bowser videos available that I can't watch and study. Srsly.

 

[MrEh]

I just can't play him, though. I've tried. I just can't space with him and there are so few new Bowser videos available that I can't watch and study. Srsly.

We usually upload videos of my Bowser on a monthly basis. I've been placing like **** though, so there aren't that many nowadays though. lol

 

[Bowser King]

Meh, I was expecting him to go down but not 2 places though.

He's still better then PT and Ike so I'm happy

Other then that the list is pretty good.

-Bowser King

 

[Brinzy]

It could be worse.

You could be below Zelda!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Meh, I was expecting him to go down but not 2 places though.

He's still better then PT and Ike so I'm happy

Other then that the list is pretty good.

-Bowser King

Of course Bowser > Ike. That just makes sense.

What needs to happen, however, is both Ike and Bowser getting more tournament results. Bowser can then crawl back up into the tier above him, and Ike can curb-stomp PT back where he belongs. Maybe slip pass Zelda as well, most of the Zelda mainers seem to think she should be lower....

Might help if I could actually place in tournaments. >_> Using Bowser as a secondary has helped a bit in friendlies, but I haven't been to a tournament since I picked up Bowser. At least at FS6, D3's infinity is banned so I don't have to worry about getting CPed that way...

 

[Bowser King]

Of course Bowser > Ike. That just makes sense.

Yeah.

What needs to happen, however, is both Ike and Bowser getting more tournament results. Bowser can then crawl back up into the tier above him, and Ike can curb-stomp PT back where he belongs. Maybe slip pass Zelda as well, most of the Zelda mainers seem to think she should be lower....

Might help if I could actually place in tournaments. >_> Using Bowser as a secondary has helped a bit in friendlies, but I haven't been to a tournament since I picked up Bowser. At least at FS6, D3's infinity is banned so I don't have to worry about getting CPed that way...

I guess that's the hopes of every under played character, To have more people play there char and/or have there char getter better results. Neither is happening for Ike and bowser and my never happen in the (likely) 5-6+ years of brawls tourney future. We can try though

-Bowser King

 

[Benn man]

Just saw the list. Bowser could probably make C but then again, a lot of the characters seem misplaced.

 

[yummynbeefy]

hes right sorry guys

 

[Skyshroud]

The real issue with why Bowser is so low is his matchups. There are no matchups currently discussed in which he has an advantage. In fact, of all the other forums discussing Bowser, only Ganon and Falcon claim disadvantages (PT and Jiggs being the only other low tiers to not discuss the matchup). Bowser needs some matchups where he has an advantage so people will at least consider picking him up.

 

[Bowser King]

The real issue with why Bowser is so low is his matchups. There are no matchups currently discussed in which he has an advantage. In fact, of all the other forums discussing Bowser, only Ganon and Falcon claim disadvantages (PT and Jiggs being the only other low tiers to not discuss the matchup). Bowser needs some matchups where he has an advantage so people will at least consider picking him up.

Seriously?

If anyone even takes those things with more then a grain of salt hey really need to reconsider what the priorities of a matchup are.

Matchup discussions only really come handy when your looking over the advantages and disadvantages of each char in the matchup and when the matchup is really bad.

Not to mention no character board is going to want to put there char with a bad matchup (other then the bowser boards who just add 60-40 with little care). I'm not saying all boards do but there are boards who are biased.

-Bowser King

 

[Hobobloke]

Gen enough of your age johns, get your *** out there and rep us.

 

[Skyshroud]

Seriously?

If anyone even takes those things with more then a grain of salt hey really need to reconsider what the priorities of a matchup are.

Matchup discussions only really come handy when your looking over the advantages and disadvantages of each char in the matchup and when the matchup is really bad.

Not to mention no character board is going to want to put there char with a bad matchup (other then the bowser boards who just add 60-40 with little care). I'm not saying all boards do but there are boards who are biased.

-Bowser King

I'm not saying they should be taken seriously, but they are one of the things people tend to glance through when looking into picking up a character. I don't think many are going to read through every detailed analysis when considering a character (not saying that they shouldn't). I'm just pointing out that it's a real scare away when people take a look at Bowser and he appears to have no advantages.

As to the last point, you guys claim no advantages yourselves. If the board that is supposed to be (at least slightly) biased towards their character doesn't have anything nice to say, what are people going to think?

I'm not saying that Bowser is a terrible character at all. However, if you guys want to get people to respect, develop, and get more involved with his game, there needs to be some sort of enticement.

 

[Flayl]

Bowser doesn't hard counter any character but he does have advantage over several. Unfortunately, all of those advantageous matchups are against characters that are lower than him on the tier list. That's why we haven't claimed any yet.

There's no reason other than personal preference to play Bowser.

Also Bowser should never make C tier. Ever.

 

[B!squick]

Why not? Of course he's middle of the road, but why shouldn't he be middle of the middle?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Doesn't he have a moderately good matchup vs. MK though? I mean, that's gotta count for something.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Bowser does really well against fox, well mine does at least. But i was kinda hoping he would drop to low tier just so i would able to use him in low tier tournies. Nothings changed except his placement i mean its not like the SBR went in and hacked the game to make him crappier. Oh wait, they did, lol. He is still the same old huggable turtle we all know and secretly hate, nah we love u bowser ha!

 

[B!squick]

Well, as I mentioned in the OP, you can use Bowser in low tier tournies, it just depends on the TO.

And yes, Bowser has a somewhat even match up against MK and if you're good at pivot grabbing and can keep him from jump releasing you have an infinite on him.

 

[MrEh]

If you're using Bowser because you want to win, you're doing it wrong.

 

[LuVr]

Lol, you use bowser because its fun to hit sum1 with a full charged side smash... or just praying + bowsercide can work sumtimes

 

[MrEh]

If you don't use Bowser because you love him, then you probably will never be satisfied in using him.

 

[B!squick]

You know, I realized somethings.

Mario hates animals, be it gorillas, turtles, or frogs. Get's "bigger" (i.e. high) from 'shrooms and this constant substance abuse has lead to so much brain damage that in his and the player's mind he thinks that leaves have the power to transform him into some racoon hybrid. He even has a severe problem with pyromania that he blames on flowers, FLOWERS! It's been going on for so long that he even talks to the mushrooms.

It's clear to me now the underlying story of Mario games. Bowser and Peach, wanting to keep Mario from getting into trouble, stage each "kidnaping". They create a different fantasy adventure just for Mario in the hopes that maybe someday they'll be able to give Mario the help he needs. This is why their are no Mario juniors, but instead a Bowser Jr.

Bowser isn't a bad turtleman stealing Mario's woman every game. He's doing it to help Mario.

Bowser, the real hero of the Mario series.

 

[Xyro77]

Doesn't he have a moderately good matchup vs. MK though? I mean, that's gotta count for something.

no. cause yoshi can CG meta but yet it dont mean ****

 

[MrEh]

no. cause yoshi can CG meta but yet it dont mean ****

Bowser does better then Yoshi does. The chaingrab is one thing, but the rest of Bowser's game is something else entirely.

 

[YagamiDark]

I might pick up bowser casually. Isn't the matchup 45-55 MK?
Since bowser kills early and never dies

 

[The Brown Scourge]

You are right, Yagami Dark, Bowser NEVER DIES!!!!!!!

 

[Kamikaze*]

I might pick up bowser casually. Isn't the matchup 45-55 MK?
Since bowser kills early and never dies

Actually, 60:40 MK.

 

[Ochobobo]

Of course Zelda wouldn't want to be above Bowser, because we already know she has a huge blindspot below her. Now she's free to usmash and uair Bowser, which was our plan all along. Our goal is to make it to the very bottom so we can destroy everyone

 

[MrEh]

I lol'ed.

XD

 

[Vex Kasrani]

We even have a somewhat situational pivot regrab infinite on MK.

.

What is this?

 

[Flayl]

What is this?

Force a ground breakout on MK and true pivot grab him. If you do it correctly you should go backwards while grabbing him.

Nobody can do it consistently.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Force a ground breakout on MK and true pivot grab him. If you do it correctly you should go backwards while grabbing him.

Nobody can do it consistently.

Can't he extra inch DI the ground release like ness and lucas do to marth :/

 

[Flayl]

Funny thing about that, extra inch DI doesn't exist. Apparently it was all a lie.