The new Roy Strategem discussion

[odinNJ]

yes but pika can travel to the ledge much faster and if the zelda preempts this and goes high, pika can ledgehop waveland into the usmash, or back throw and the like.


Also, to get discussion rolling again, i have been experimenting with roy's terrible uptilt recently. I havenet found anything fun yet but i definatly think there will be some application for it.

 

[Willy OD]

The only application I found to uptilt is Marth-like comboes on spacies. Like, uthrow, uthrow, uptilt sweetspot, regrab. Something like that. Also, you can do upthrow f-smash at ~40-50%, which is nice if they don't expect it

 

[odinNJ]

^^ da, i instead of regrabs i find that a random ftilt will catch their DI off guard and can gimp relatively well haha. its all about the mindgames with roy, and the more mixups we can find the better. I just wish it wasnt so laggy.

 

[BSeeD]

Hehe Willy didn't think I'll see u on a low tier thread someday XD

He got caught by Roy firey metagame

I have several questions :

- Did someone had some time to mess around with shield drops ? If so, is there something useful u found out ? Like is sd neutral B or sd reverse neutral B useful ?

- Can Roy edge cancel his up B ?

If you answer those questions I'll have more for you

 

[darkoblivion12]

I have not implemented shield dropping into my game, although i could see it being useful to escape some pressure from below him.

You can edge cancel upB but you can't go straight into teeter out of it like spacie's sideB. You have to fall a little before it can cancel.

 

[Max?]

I started playing with Roy a little bit recently. He's awful, but he's also jank.

Thanks for the inspiration Sethlon

 

[FurySpark]

Its very difficult to spike with Roy without causing a self-death. I've managed to stay alive a few times but aside that its a very hard method of fighting to excel in with Roy.

 

[odinNJ]

dont meteor smash with roy. period. its bad. im looking at you pyro

 

[Ripple]

always meteor smash. its what roy mains do. looking at you pyro

 

[camerino1]

Do it for the tech-chase at mid precentages!

 

[darkoblivion12]

BUT BUT... THE TECH CHASES... AND THE SILLIES...

Are we talking about dair or DED spike here?

Dair spike is garbage except into a platform techchase.

DED spike is good on a mixup and techchasing floaties. Also, if they try to tech it, continue into hit 4.

Anyways, I forgot how to play against doc. And I was playing really stanky vs one at RoM. I won the set, but I didn't feel good about it. So I was having problems with the move priority in general. I was getting in, but because of doc's hard punishes to our weight he was making more out of trades. It was weird that I was getting a lot of trades too... maybe I need to space fairs better? My general thought process on doc is wait for him to fh pill and then get under him and punish. And if he sh pills beat it with fair. The problem I was having was dtilt didn't seem useful at any given situation and I was trying to force situations where it would be, and I'd eat 50+% from whiffing.
Anyways, I just wanted to relieve my thoughts and start a discussion. Also Odin, that was for you.

 

[camerino1]

D-tilt tip > n-air is the best thing on Doc, from what I've seen anyway. I don't think we have many things on him besides outspacing with f-air and b.

And I meant both. I like using d-air on the platforms of YS against characters like Marth, where it spins them on it and d-tilt sends them just over it. DED3^ is just good.

 

[Bing]

I like Tech Chasing with Dair. Yes. Im so boss.

 

[Cinbad]

Its very difficult to spike with Roy without causing a self-death. I've managed to stay alive a few times but aside that its a very hard method of fighting to excel in with Roy.

Nah its quite easy to spike with
Every time i use it off the edge i spike myself

 

[odinNJ]

first of all, cinbad lol, second of all.
Dair is good for dtilt dair fsmash at high percents onto platforms, or other setups like that (i got a few at rom).
DED 3rd hit down (the meteor smash) is better that people give it credit for when it comes to mixups, techchases, bounces into fourth hits.
Also @ pyro, the doc matchup is not fun to begin with, so if you were feeling off you still did well to win that. I personally hate the doc matchup because doc can just deny anything you try to do and gimp you pretty easily.

Finally, fine, dair can be cool as a lolz way to kill someone in friendlies. thats it, besides sethlons sexy dtilt dairs on marth :D

 

[FurySpark]

Okay, i notice you guys talk about the DED a lot. But when ever i play i never find myself using it to kill my opponents. When at high % i just dtilt, fair, then fsmash that normally finishes them off.

But i would like to know when its best to use DED cause i can never find a good spot to add it in to a combo etc. I feel like its slow :S

Thanks in advance :]

 

[odinNJ]

Okay, i notice you guys talk about the DED a lot. But when ever i play i never find myself using it to kill my opponents. When at high % i just dtilt, fair, then fsmash that normally finishes them off.

But i would like to know when its best to use DED cause i can never find a good spot to add it in to a combo etc. I feel like its slow :S

Thanks in advance :]

Dtilt fair fsmash stops working really early on floaties.

And on spacies dtilt uair fsmash can be more reliable at high percentages (because with the fair outward DI can screw you over)

But basically its less of a kill move and more of a general purpose move, I like to think of it as Roys great multi tool.
I use it to space, combo (kinda), gimp (HOLY GOD I LOVE DED GIMPS), space some more, maybe kill sometimes (less common), but mainly space and do damage.

Sometimes ill have stocks against characters like falcon where 60 percent of the moves I hit them with are DED.

TL:DR DED is godlike for spacing and defense.

 

[camerino1]

DED3> is the only reliable kill from DED, since it's so hard to land 4^ or >. I've scored a few DED3^ kills from the meteor, but never from anti-spiking into 4^ or >. I should probably pay more attention to when that happens, so that I can actually get that kill.

 

[FurySpark]

It's a great feeling when you spike with Roy..<3

But the funny thing is i've never done it... Like okay, i'm playing against Fox (lvl7) and i do whatever to hit him of the stage. He does his classic double jump onto the stage, but at the high point of that double i dair him (must be hit with the center of his sword) I hit him and he goes flying straight down and somehow pulls off a B-up not more then 3cm away from me like the games saying (You will NEVER spike with ROY...EVER!)

And it happens every time i pull it off. Fox just shakes it off and instantly triple jumps back onto the stage....

Has this ever happened to you guys?

 

[odinNJ]

>lvl 7s,

I practice on lvl 1s and 5s for their DI.

but yeah, there are plenty of times when I will roy spike RUN (my training partner) for the lols and it will actualy help him recover, roys spike sends people down at the speed of dirt so yeah, they have all afternoon to cancel it.

 

[R:U:N]

^it's true
the only case where i can see meteor dair taking a stock off is against yoshi if he's already used his double jump.
that would be hilarious.
just watching yoshi tumble into the abyss for about a full 5 minutes

 

[odinNJ]

http://www.twitch.tv/ssbmodin/c/1747209


watch this, its pretty cool i guess, my favorite part is the flare blade :D

also Im a bear

http://www.twitch.tv/ssbmodin/c/1747943

 

[darkoblivion12]

You are not a bear.

I am a goddamn bear.

But i did like the combo.

 

[odinNJ]

Who wants to talk about how glorious uair to nair is?

I like it a lot I guess,

 

[FurySpark]

How do you guys practice with Roy? Like say you're playing by yourself. I normal just face lvl 7 Foxes and Falcos. ( As i stated above ) But i feel like its a method that's getting old. Whats the best way to practice when you're alone playing melee??

Like face everyone at lvl 9 or keep it lvl 7 for less grab spam etc.Fight characters your bad against etc

 

[R:U:N]

Try lvl 1 cpus for practicing gimp/combo execution (using cpus instead of training mode so that you can use the cstick), since they'll rarely interrupt you.
Experiment a bit. Find some stuff you like, uses for certain moves, different DED combinations in certain situations I guess? Whatever you silly roy boys do ;D
Practicing more defensive things like spacing and tough MUs kind of requires another person
Use training mode to practice techskill and stuff (ie wavedashing/landing, ledgedashing, lcanceling, edgecanceling, ledgehop aerials, sweetspotting blazer, dash/shield/no-impact platform drops, etc.)
You can use landmines in training mode to practice teching, i think there's a thread with more detail on it.
All of this might seem really basic, but fundamentals are very important to have well-practiced so that eventually you don't even have to think about doing it and you can put your focus more into the actual match.
That's as much as I have to offer that's not specific to roy, idk if there are any super secret training mode techniques that are roy specific

Edit: For techskill stuff that involves using aerials or smash attacks, like pivot fsmashing lcanceling edgecanceling ledgehop aerials, go into versus mode, if you have a second controller, plug it in and just put the other character off to the side while you practice so that you can use cstick to practice this stuff and so that you don't have a cpu bugging you the whole time.

 

[odinNJ]

This pretty much covers it,

But practicing Roy alone can only get you so far

 

[ElloEddy]

what odin said..practicing low tier's alone only gets you so far....you gotta play higher level players in order to get great with a low tier

 

[FurySpark]

That's great information. Thanks a lot! :D

 

[odinNJ]

I have a question for Sethlon (if he's not already full time PM), in your vids you like to use flit a lot, what are some applications of it, i feel like whenever I use it there were better moves I could have done instead.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Ftilt covers a wide arc in front of you with a shorter lag time afterwards that fsmash. I use ftilt to cover a lot of ledge options and approach options. It's also good at keeping people out when you don't know how they're going to approach you. Also I use it off fthrow to cover multiple DI options if I'm unsure of it.

 

[odinNJ]

I like the fthrow idea. Ir thought about pain it as an edge guard but I didn't know how effective it would be. Also for approaches doesn't DED cover more options than flit? I always thought it was the best anti approach option?

 

[Sethlon]

Pretty much what Darkoblivion said. Its kinda of like Fsmash-Lite; the knockback for the sweetspot is kinda nice, and its a huge arc, so its pretty easy to sweetspot. The hitbox also stays out longer than say jab or DED.

Nice for tagging people near the edge when you don't have time/don't want to risk whiffing the fsmash. Will beat out stuff like Marth falling down with fair, and since it hits higher and stays out longer than jab, it can be used to hit spacies out of overB in some situations that jab can't. If you find times where just pushing them away a bit is enough to finish them off, ftilt is your man.

As for actual on stage use, I'm not too big a fan, but its got really nice range, so I could see it being useful at times. You just don't really get much off of it; low risk, low reward.

 

[odinNJ]

Thank you, I'll try to find ways to work it into my edgegaying.

On another note, ded4^ pokes through battle field's platforms, this is fun.
Also, first hit if the nair is nice for jabb resetting people when coming down from above them

 

[Sethlon]

DED>>>^ can actually hit people that are on Dreamland's lower platforms. Its pretty godlike in terms of range lol

 

[Ripple]

Also shield pokes a lot for no apparent reason

 

[Sephirothxxx]

DED>>>^ can actually hit people that are on Dreamland's lower platforms. Its pretty godlike in terms of range lol

The DED is def one of Roy's most useful moves, if not most useful.

 

[odinNJ]

DED is Roy's most multipurpose, useful, strategic, tactical, spamable, badass, strong independent black women move that don't need no man.

I will not argue this.

 

[ike_love]

Roy's Ftilt actually goes below him, so if I remember right, a well timed Ftilt has a better chance of hitting a recovering opponent ( it hits them before they can touch the stage )
Also if I remember right, doing aerial flare blade does the same thing in terms of hitting below the floor.

 

[darkoblivion12]

@ike_love: I believe you're right.

Also topic: Fsmashing a spacie out of illusion is insanely hard. I've never been able to get the timing quite right, and I finally hit it the other day. I noticed you actually have to start the fsmash at the same time or before the illusion starts in order to actually hit. Why do I play this awful character?