The new Roy Strategem discussion

[odinNJ]

That matchup is all about not getting hyper sentinel forced.
Enough said




Ps (get her above you)

 

[Pitzer]

Roy vs Samus? I just Ded missiles. Bait unsafe moves and Grab. I throw some ftilts in there for edge guarding. F-smash obv after a huge tech read.

 

[odinNJ]

^^ this + my own personal fav, the jump off stage flare blade to push her away

 

[fatalmztake]

Hey there Roy mains. I'm a brawler coming to melee because my local scene is very melee heavy and I think it's just a more intense game. My question is I love Roy more than anything, but he's not that great. Is it possible to make him tourny viable or should I just pick up someone like marth, shiek, etc? Anything you could tell me or discuss with me to help me get better with Roy would be greatly appreciated.

 

[camerino1]

Most people are gonna say "Don't even bother trying, he's not good enough to get anywhere." Honestly, it probably isn't, but if you're really stuck on getting good with him, watch Ripple, Exarch and Sethlon. They're the 3 best in current meta. If you want old school, watch Neo as well. You're gonna learn more from watching and copying what you see than just discussing.

 

[Pitzer]

Bro I've been playing Roy for 8 years, I can tell you he's not like super good but, if you put dedication into the character that you love you can accomplish things. Since you came from Brawl thats actually not a bad mindset for a roy player Roy doesn't have much Hitstun on some of his moves so that puts people in reset options like in brawl, iirc Dtilt has the most hit stun in Roy's moveset when Centered, then its Bair then Nair. I play Roy a bit like how I play Brawl punish mistakes then reset the situation. Always try to remember your zoning, if you played marth in brawl his length of his Sword is about the same as Roy's in melee since they nerfed it during the transition and character are a lot smaller. If you want some vids watch Ripple, Sethlon and Neo. You can watch some of mine (Pitzer) I don't have much out though. If you need anything feel free to ask. Always remember Character Dedication is something you can make worth!

 

[fatalmztake]

Yeah, I know that dedicating myself to a low tier character may be a rough road, but in the end worth it I would hope. As for the Marth thing, I played Marth a bit, but mained Olimar. I've been watching vids of those players already and I can see where he can do well, but you have to work harder to achieve the same results that someone like marth could get easier. I'm still not great at melee yet as far as tech skill is concerned like WD, L-cancelling, etc so I'm learning all around. My local smashers recommend I learn the game with a mid/top tier character then play what I like over what's easy.

 

[odinNJ]

I recomend starting with a high tier who stresses the basics (cough falcon) and then switching/transitioning to roy, I kinda did the same thing.

 

[camerino1]

I like using Sheik to learn a lot of the basics, personally. Roy has a decent tech chase game, and Sheik has probably the best one in the game, so I use her to emulate that.

 

[odinNJ]

wasnt it kk who said roy feels like sheik and fox combined (but bad).

Yeah i can see that, except why would you play that lesbian bodybuilder when you can play her high-heel wearing alter ego (who is also trash)

 

[BTmoney]

Hey there Roy mains. I'm a brawler coming to melee because my local scene is very melee heavy and I think it's just a more intense game. My question is I love Roy more than anything, but he's not that great. Is it possible to make him tourny viable or should I just pick up someone like marth, shiek, etc? Anything you could tell me or discuss with me to help me get better with Roy would be greatly appreciated.

In all seriousness had roy love too, then I used Marth lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hey there Roy mains. I'm a brawler coming to melee because my local scene is very melee heavy and I think it's just a more intense game. My question is I love Roy more than anything, but he's not that great. Is it possible to make him tourny viable or should I just pick up someone like marth, shiek, etc? Anything you could tell me or discuss with me to help me get better with Roy would be greatly appreciated.

Judging from the lack of Roys getting super far into national tournaments, I would say he'll probably never do so due to limitations as a character.
Therefore, national tournament viability (winning money) is pretty unlikely, but winning in a local scene is entirely possible. No need to switch unless you really feel driven to want to win money. Otherwise, just have fun with the character in whatever you end up doing striving to get better.

Yeah, I know that dedicating myself to a low tier character may be a rough road, but in the end worth it I would hope. As for the Marth thing, I played Marth a bit, but mained Olimar. I've been watching vids of those players already and I can see where he can do well, but you have to work harder to achieve the same results that someone like marth could get easier. I'm still not great at melee yet as far as tech skill is concerned like WD, L-cancelling, etc so I'm learning all around. My local smashers recommend I learn the game with a mid/top tier character then play what I like over what's easy.

I recomend starting with a high tier who stresses the basics (cough falcon) and then switching/transitioning to roy, I kinda did the same thing.

I like using Sheik to learn a lot of the basics, personally. Roy has a decent tech chase game, and Sheik has probably the best one in the game, so I use her to emulate that.

I'd say the opposite. The sooner you pick a character and stick with it the better. You can learn game basics with any character and that is really the only thing that will transfer over. Why not improve the basics and learn your character at the same time? The l-cancel timings will be different for all characters along with when you can fast fall or do stuff immediately after their aerials or lag of attack. Roy will have different feelings on an opponent's stun time than sheik will. Getting use to Roy's range will be different than using another character. Playing as another character transfers over very little compared to actually using the character in the first place.

Actually, what do you expect to learn from Falcon that you couldn't already do with Roy? Or how does Sheik's tech chase ever transfer over to Roy? Roy has different options than Sheik does out of a tech chase, and how will you learn that if you keep playing sheik all the time?

 

[camerino1]

Playing a different character lets you see their options as well, so you're not blind on what they can do to you and when they can do it too. If I learn how to play Sheik, I can learn how to play against her too. I can see the frames where she's most vulnerable after an attack, and I can learn the percentages at which she can and can't do things to me. Same for any other character too. If you learn how to play them, you learn how to play against them too.

 

[BSeeD]

I always thought that playing a low tier will force you to be more fast and consistent with ur basics, simply because you have to rely more on it than a top tier.

U know what I mean ? Like, you don't have a lot of weapons compared to your opponent, so you have to be more consistent, fast and accurate on things you have, ie basics.

But I can be wrong ^^

Some things I wanted to notice and ask :

- There's a use of the DED you guyz did not talk about I would like to see talked about : I find myself using DED> while tech chasing after a dthrow. After a dthrow with Roy I usually input an initial dash in the direction of the throw so I'm like halfway to both rolls and then try to react for the roll (by fox trotting, dding, keep on dashing w/ever ).

If they don't roll and tech on place or just fall, I just have to pivot DED> my initial dash.

Is this something common ? Is this stupid ?
What do u guyz think about that ?

- Secondly, If I'm not mistaken, Roy's ftilt start from the bottom to go to the top right ?
That is maybe an explanation to the fact you use this to cover the edge instead of fsmash or else ?

What I mean is if u can ftilt, a sweetspotted illusion for instance, by reacting, I'm not sure you can fsmash the same recovery without a little prediction or at least your punishment window with fsmash would be way shorter than the one with ftilt. Am I right ?

- Thirdly (does it exist ? "Thirdly" ? ) General question about Samus : Whenever I get to play Samus VS Roy with Fauster, and it happens quite often , I rely a lot on Neutral B.
I find plenty of uses to this attack VS Samus, aerial harassment, edgeguard (do you guyz try to rush into that bomb jump with neutral B charging ? ), etc...

As I didn't see you talking about this attack in the Samus VS Roy MU, I suppose this is not as useful as I thought ?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I always thought that playing a low tier will force you to be more fast and consistent with ur basics, simply because you have to rely more on it than a top tier.

U know what I mean ? Like, you don't have a lot of weapons compared to your opponent, so you have to be more consistent, fast and accurate on things you have, ie basics.

Basics are the same for everyone or vary enough that they don't transfer.

The only difference between a high tier or low tier in my opinion is most of the time dependent upon how well they punish or lack of tools or misc. traits. For roy, even if he hits someone, he is often times gets punished right back for how little knockback he gives. Someone like fox for example off a single grab can combo the cast until about 60% off a grab from 0%. Plus, he gets easy combos into Usmash which will KO at around 100%.

If anything, playing high tier will only keep you in a pretty good advantage (ex. combo) more often than playing a lower tier. Lower tier to me is like playing brawl. You reset after about two hits at most.

 

[Vudujin]

Here's some cool Roy action in friendlies from Apex:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvCpzzacac&feature=player_detailpage#t=802s

Enjoy!

 

[Bing]

Yeah whenever I was about to use Roy I'd warm up with Sheik. The Tech Chasing, Hell, D-tilt for fair reminds me of D-tilt to F-smash for Roy. I like learning other characters because it teaches me about my actual main(s). Its a silly approach because I've spread myself so thin but I have no regrets. Like I used Sheik and Marth to learn tech chasing and ledge guards. Fox and Falco for control and general tech skill. Pikachu for Gimps, Pichu and Marth for Juggling(Fox also). I dunno, every character can teach you something that brings whole the picture together, but I wouldnt recommend it, just I never had many people to play against so I just kept learning new characters.

 

[Pitzer]

Yo next Apex I want to see more Roy players. I will be there this time, I will enter Melee Going Roy for the most part unless if I have to bring out the secondaires like Fox, Marth and Peach.

 

[Sethlon]

As I didn't see you talking about this attack in the Samus VS Roy MU, I suppose this [aerial flare blade] is not as useful as I thought ?

Aerial flare blade is really useful period IMO. Its like a stronger but slower fair with a little more range. Anytime you can get a read and hit people recovering off stage is good stuff, Samus is no exception.

Yo next Apex I want to see more Roy players. I will be there this time, I will enter Melee Going Roy for the most part unless if I have to bring out the secondaires like Fox, Marth and Peach.

Is there going to be another Apex? Last I read Alex Strife is dipping due to Apex2013's thefts

 

[Bing]

Really there was so much theft that there might not be an Apex2014? WOWWWW good job community.

 

[Veggiez]

At least Genesis 3 is confirmed, and we're looking at Evo 2013, too. I won't be at either (not that it's a loss, I'm not even a good Roy, but I'd like to learn and play; get experience), but let's hope Roy mains show up to those and get some good friendlies in to give insights on matchups afterwards.

Also, how do you guys incorporate Dair into your game? It's a risky move on the stage, as the landing lag is terribly punishable on block, but if you hit it with his elbow coming down, you get a small knockup which actually chains into grab even with DI (just pivot according to DI). Can also combo into DED (DED3^ into tech chase is a nice followup), SH Nair, or Fsmash. I like using it, but again, it's risky. Are there better options or safer approaches?

 

[BSeeD]

Never used Dair that much, but I tried yesterday in freeplay, I must say chasing on platforms with Dair is fun and prettyyy useful

@Sethlon : That's what I thought then. I don't know for you, but I live with Fauster and plays against Cyr in every french tournament we both attend to (the 2 best french Samus per se), and I noted that they tend to double jump a lot while being hit - or threatened to be hit - airborne.
Just watched a game with Plup, he does double jump a lot too.
Don't know if it's a general thing with Samus or not, but if it is, u can easily mindgame these into charged aerial fire blade, I guess.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Most people are gonna say "Don't even bother trying, he's not good enough to get anywhere." Honestly, it probably isn't, but if you're really stuck on getting good with him, watch Ripple, Exarch and Sethlon. They're the 3 best in current meta. If you want old school, watch Neo as well. You're gonna learn more from watching and copying what you see than just discussing.

My feelings hurt...

;_;

But I suppose Im a Yoshi main, so I understand..

<3

Not to mention, I don't play Roy like at all anymore... but I'll bring him back if you think I don't got it..

Also at Apex 2014, yes his INITIAL announcement was that he was done....but a few days after he posted he was done, he's going to do apex 2014, after all.. The tournament was a success (besides the thefts, and misc other things) but he will indeed be doing another apex..

 

[camerino1]

I don't know why I forgot you, since your Roy could put up a good fight against any of them. You didn't go Roy at Apex though and it made me soooooooooooooooooo sad. But yeah, you're a Yoshi main first, so I can't blame you.

 

[Bing]

Dair is nice for popping up opponents at Mid-high percentages. Also Impulse2 is also happening this summer so I'd like to see some of you guys make it to that!

 

[Veggiez]

My feelings hurt...

;_;

But I suppose Im a Yoshi main, so I understand..

<3

Not to mention, I don't play Roy like at all anymore... but I'll bring him back if you think I don't got it..

Also at Apex 2014, yes his INITIAL announcement was that he was done....but a few days after he posted he was done, he's going to do apex 2014, after all.. The tournament was a success (besides the thefts, and misc other things) but he will indeed be doing another apex..

Aren't you switching to Mewtwo now and Taj switching to Yoshi and teaching other? Don't give up Roy though lol

I might have time this summer to make it to some events, but I'll be in Canada, so I'm sure there's like no locals there haha. I'll see what strings I can pull to get down to Genesis 3 or Evo or any other tourneys that pop up in NY or anywhere near there.

 

[camerino1]

Where are you gonna be in canada as I live there as wellllllllllllllll?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Veggiez]

Where are you gonna be in canada as I live there as wellllllllllllllll?!?!?!?!?!?!

Woah, that's hella lucky. I'll be in Ottawa, and depending on where I'll go for college, either Quebec (Montreal) or BC (Vancouver)

 

[Pitzer]

Dair can be used to combo into f-smash around 80% on some floaties and like 116% on Fastfallers.

 

[camerino1]

So guys, EVO2013 has been(pretty much as long as donations don't get bounced/whatever else) confirmed to have Melee at it.

Now, as much as I'd love to go, I don't even have a job. If I do get one though, I'm saving EVERY LITTLE BIT to get a ticket/hotel room to go. I am infact job hunting tomorrow for this. So, with that being said, is anyone else gonna train like a mad-man for it? I know I will even though I have a 5% chance at going. So yeah, come on Roy, let's make some noise! :D

 

[Veggiez]

So guys, EVO2013 has been(pretty much as long as donations don't get bounced/whatever else) confirmed to have Melee at it.

Now, as much as I'd love to go, I don't even have a job. If I do get one though, I'm saving EVERY LITTLE BIT to get a ticket/hotel room to go. I am infact job hunting tomorrow for this. So, with that being said, is anyone else gonna train like a mad-man for it? I know I will even though I have a 5% chance at going. So yeah, come on Roy, let's make some noise! :D

I'm definitely planning on going, but I have to figure out travel costs first. If I do, no doubt I'll be spamming Roy in friendlies, hopefully getting some vids up of my mediocre Roy (which will hopefully improve by the end of the tournament!)

Also, if that doesn't work out, I COULD drive up to Sudbury.

 

[camerino1]

Oh snap, you actually would only be 6 hours away. We've got about 20 people here who play often. We're not a huge crowd, but we're all fun guys (and a girl).

 

[Veggiez]

Oh snap, you actually would only be 6 hours away. We've got about 20 people here who play often. We're not a huge crowd, but we're all fun guys (and a girl).

Wow, really? I would totally be down head up there. Is there any place I could stay? I won't drive 6 hours just for a couple hours of playtime, you understand.

Also probably won't want to spend money on a hotel or anything. Unless there's something super cheap.

 

[Bing]

There is a scene in Ottawa. Ministry, A Sheik player(Originally from near me) is one of the better players. Also like I already said, Impulse 2 is happening in Toronto as well, so you could attend a national thats only 6 hours away...ish.

 

[Pitzer]

I might go to Evo. If I do I'm going all Roy.

 

[Veggiez]

There is a scene in Ottawa. Ministry, A Sheik player(Originally from near me) is one of the better players. Also like I already said, Impulse 2 is happening in Toronto as well, so you could attend a national thats only 6 hours away...ish.

Oh awesome. Thanks for the heads up, I'll def look into it, since I have friends and relatives in Toronto I can stay with.

 

[Bing]

Toronto has a great scene so definitely look into that. I mean.. Unknown, KK, Weon-X, I.B the list goes on... Unknown actually has a solid Roy. Its Ridiculous lol. Took me like an hour of Fox vs Roy to take a game.

 

[camerino1]

Well, Fox doesn't have the greatest MU on Roy... so maybe that's why? ;D

But yes, of course we could find a place to room you. Like I said, I'll add you to the group if you want and you can come up for 3 days sometime and play games with all of us. None of us are that overly skilled, but that can't be helped due to location. I'll also try and make it to Impulse.

 

[Veggiez]

Well, Fox doesn't have the greatest MU on Roy... so maybe that's why? ;D

But yes, of course we could find a place to room you. Like I said, I'll add you to the group if you want and you can come up for 3 days sometime and play games with all of us. None of us are that overly skilled, but that can't be helped due to location. I'll also try and make it to Impulse.

Sounds like an awesome plan, I'll PM you later to discuss some details.

I'll also form some plans to go to Impulse 2. My main problem atm is just transportation, but as soon as I get that sorted out I'll probably be able to get down there, hopefully more than once.

 

[Pitzer]

Roy vs Fox is not bad for Roy. Roy vs falco is more of a problem cause of the lasers.

I feel like Roy vs Fox is 55-45 60-40. VS Falco which is like 60-40 65-35