The new Roy Strategem discussion

[FrootLoop]

yo exarch I was doing friendlies at some chicago tournament as fox and some dude picked roy against me.
he said "you probably don't any roy practice"
I said "have you heard of exarch?"
he said "no"
FOUR STOCKED
thx bro.

also, smym 13 is happening, I'll give you a dollar if you come.

 

[camerino1]

All I meant by OoS was that he dropped the shield and got me while I was cooling down from DED4V.

 

[Sethlon]

IMO dsmash after drop shield would be better than uptilt. Comes out faster/just as fast (uptilt comes out on 7, dsmas hits on 6-8), and dsmash kills just as well sweet spotted or not.

What I would be really interested in is what moves have enough lag that we could drop shield -> punish. I imagine like marth's fsmash at close range would certainly work, but what else...if we could devise some punishment for like fox upsmash/fsmash (besides just "grab") that would be awesome.

I've been getting the dair spike on grounded opponents recently (the same anti-spike trajectory of CF and Ganon's dair.) I've never seen this before until I accidentally started doing it... Thoughts, outside experience, potential theorycrafting?

I've noticed it before, though not often. Are you referring specifically to the stumble animation that it puts them in when you spike at low percent, or the ground bounce-ish version that puts them in the air?

 

[camerino1]

I find that you just don't have enough time to get anything out when that happens to them while on ground. I've done it, but I could never get anything off of it and it usually gets me hit by something... even when l-canceled, I just have to back off and wait for their approach.

 

[exarch]

I've noticed it before, though not often. Are you referring specifically to the stumble animation that it puts them in when you spike at low percent, or the ground bounce-ish version that puts them in the air?

Both, the same hitbox would cause both, it would just depend on the opponent's percent. Lower % would lead to stumble, higher would be the anti-spike trajectory.

Usually these types of moves have considerable stun time. Marth also uses his to prevent CCs at low %'s. I'm wondering if this could be an uncrouch-able aerial, or potentially another way to kill at later %'s. (Although the tipper dair works well enough a lot of the time.)

And @ camerino, I've had similar results when they go into stumble, but if I was expecting it, it might be usable.

 

[camerino1]

Maybe, but the hitboxes are really funky on the attack. It would be hard to master exactly where they are going to go every time, just because of how odd the move is. I suppose if you learned it well enough, it would be viable to lead into something like d-tilt at mid percents. That could then lead to f-smash, and a death on FF'ers. Just a thought, of course

 

[crush]

roy is a great character id recommend using if you are smart and technical and will win but if you want the easy way out then Princess PEach is for you, dont pick roy

 

[Sethlon]

Both, the same hitbox would cause both, it would just depend on the opponent's percent. Lower % would lead to stumble, higher would be the anti-spike trajectory.

I'm aware, just wasn't sure if you were referring to a specific reaction.

The main problem I have with it is how freaking close you'd have to get to someone to actually hit with the spiking hitbox (literally on top of them). I haven't really messed around with it on standing opponents though, wonder how low in the swing you could get it to land?

Perhaps the spike would be viable when tech chasing? Dunno how efficient that would be compared to dtilt or fsmash, but everyone loves some flash in their life.

 

[darkoblivion12]

i've also noticed the dair knockback thing. unfortunately, it's usually too hard to hit with. off the top of my head, i'd think we can punish a tech on a platform with it, and we could probably shield poke with it.

 

[camerino1]

Oh, just something I was thinking of. It's not an actual combo, but if they DI wrong, it'll kill them. When fighting Jiggs, if you DED1 then up-b when in the air and reverse it, if they don't DI away it kills. I was trying it on computers that were level 1 and then my brother, it killed most of the time. I didn't even think of asking him to n-air as a response to it, but most Jiggs wont think about it when it's happening. It's mostly for mindgames, really. Once the player see's it though, they'll be waiting. At which point you'll scare them into dodging whenever you DED1 in the air. That could lead to an f-smash kill early in the stock.

 

[BSeeD]

Oh, just something I was thinking of. It's not an actual combo, but if they DI wrong, it'll kill them. When fighting Jiggs, if you DED1 then up-b when in the air and reverse it, if they don't DI away it kills. I was trying it on computers that were level 1 and then my brother, it killed most of the time. I didn't even think of asking him to n-air as a response to it, but most Jiggs wont think about it when it's happening. It's mostly for mindgames, really. Once the player see's it though, they'll be waiting. At which point you'll scare them into dodging whenever you DED1 in the air. That could lead to an f-smash kill early in the stock.

Keeping this in mind.

 

[exarch]

Can't jiggs just jump away after getting hit by DED1 before the upb?

Also, who has experimented with edgecancelling the upb? I'm sure you've noticed the extra mobility axe gets with his upb between stocks, or taj does with m2. It would be something useful, since upb has huge priority, (and huge landing lag.)

As I recall, upb basically stops moving horizontally as it ends, which made my testing of it frustrating. I dismissed it as being too difficult. But there's gotta be at least one level where if we upb from the right position on the stage to a platform, we'll go into teeter animation. I want to find those positions. Upb to fsmash? yes please.

 

[camerino1]

Jiggs can, I think, but that's why it isn't an actual combo. It's scarier that just run + up-b, because you don't think of it, so they probably wont jump away. What does Roy have in the air that can out-do Jiggs? This is just an option for mindgames I thought of. Also, you can jump at her if she jumps away and do it. I don't think he attacks get in on time, other than N-air (I think... I'll get my brother to try some more stuff and fill you in on the results)

It might work on Dreamland... I'll check it out right now.

 

[Sethlon]

I messed around with UpB edgecancelling way back when I was first learning edgecancelling in general...I was able to get it down relatively consistently, but I remember having to UpB kind of high; it takes a while to get the necessary momentum to be able to slide off. Its kinda slow because of that, too slow too be useful I thought.

It would be nice to have an option against people and the top platform though, and I never tested going into the teeter animation instead of just slipping off. I'll mess around with it.

 

[sirlaser]

Hi guys. I'm a new guy here, just picked up Roy again recently after a short hiatus in smash. I have a question that someone will hopefully be able to help me with. Thanks in advance

Did anyone find a way to use Roy's usmash spike consistently?

 

[camerino1]

Only time I've ever combo'd it was on a Peach after a dash attack and she was at 35%. Other than that, I've pulled it off on computers just by using their programming against them.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Also, who has experimented with edgecancelling the upb? I'm sure you've noticed the extra mobility axe gets with his upb between stocks, or taj does with m2. It would be something useful, since upb has huge priority, (and huge landing lag.)

As I recall, upb basically stops moving horizontally as it ends, which made my testing of it frustrating. I dismissed it as being too difficult. But there's gotta be at least one level where if we upb from the right position on the stage to a platform, we'll go into teeter animation. I want to find those positions. Upb to fsmash? yes please.

right, so i messed around with it for a while. it's way too hard to do it consistantly, but i believe it's possible to do it on YS from the ledge.
this is because the people i play against usually don't punish this, but i'll overshoot the top of the ledge and then hold back and fall back across it to cancel the landing lag.
i think if the people i played against were better they'd be able to punish it though.

Did anyone find a way to use Roy's usmash spike consistently?

No. i wish. tis sexy.

 

[sirlaser]

From a small amount of testing I've concluded that the only way for the upA to spike is if your opponent DIs outward, away from Roy (speaking with confidence p < .95).

 

[camerino1]

Yeah, it's a really awkward move. It sucks though that the attack itself doesn't have good kill potential, because it's our attack with the longest time out and doing damage.

 

[Pitzer]

It has a good potential to kill floaties.

 

[camerino1]

But floaties get ejected by the weaker blasts... which sucks, because otherwise it would be more used against floaties. I guess it's not a horrible kill more.

 

[sirlaser]

At least reverse blazer kills puff.

 

[camerino1]

Hard to land it, but I came up with a trick on the other page to try and help land it

Edit: Also, if someone is in the u-smash, if they DI up they can be spiked down. It happened to my friend when I caught him in it.

 

[sirlaser]

Yeah, I read your post about using sideb to confuse/mindgame the **** out of puff. It's $.

Ohh! So even if they're not caught at the tip if they DI up a spike could happen...?

 

[BSeeD]

I messed around with UpB edgecancelling way back when I was first learning edgecancelling in general...I was able to get it down relatively consistently, but I remember having to UpB kind of high; it takes a while to get the necessary momentum to be able to slide off. Its kinda slow because of that, too slow too be useful I thought.

It would be nice to have an option against people and the top platform though, and I never tested going into the teeter animation instead of just slipping off. I'll mess around with it.

Please lemme know the results of your tests, I'm actually thinking about developping new things with Roy to try to win the Puff MU.
I have the feeling this character can do some **** to puff, but I need to train new things, and test out stuff to be sure.

 

[Sethlon]

Please lemme know the results of your tests, I'm actually thinking about developping new things with Roy to try to win the Puff MU.
I have the feeling this character can do some **** to puff, but I need to train new things, and test out stuff to be sure.

Did I never come back and post about this? Thought I did....lame.

Anyways.

From what I've gathered, it seems like it could be useful. UpB has a nice hitbox strangely, so it seems to be pretty good at connecting solidly when it does hit. Might be able to set up some platform traps on battlefield where you stand below the middle of the plat; upsmash if they stay/tech right above, upB to edge cancel if they roll/tech to either side.

Problems are; UpB very little damage (like 6% >.<), so its not very good for racking damage up if you could just use another move instead. I was able to edge cancel consistently, but I had a lot of trouble with getting into the teetering animation afterwards, couldn't find any way to do it consistently (so no fsmash shenanigans =/). And naturally, if you whiff the edge cancel, you're going to eat it big.

Its gimmicky, but might be useful if used right.

 

[Oneupsalesman]

Out of curiosity, what is the point in using Roy when Marth is superior?

 

[camerino1]

He's so much cooler

 

[Oneupsalesman]

Well, if it's true that his down-B is vastly superior and you're good at mind-gaming then I can see why people use him.

 

[camerino1]

His counter has a lot more pay-off if landed, his game is generally faster due to his shffl speed and he is hard to kill off the top. There's a couple of reasons to use him over Marth. None are really that good though, I just like him because I've been playing him since I was 10 and I wanna keep trying and maybe make a name for myself with him someday in the Melee community

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'll fill in for someone who I know would likely say this.

Its because roy has T3h F!rE

 

[camerino1]

So guys, I'm thinking that we need a group project as Roy mains. We each need to take a section of Roy's moveset and report what we find that may not have been known. He needs to be completely looked over, because Roy needs to gain some ground in tournament standings. I feel like we have some talent in here, so I know we can get somewhere with Roy. I don't know who'd be up for it or if anyone in here would actually want to do this, but the Roy boards need more activity. There's a few regulars here who I know want to see Roy get better, so is anyone here willing to work with me on figuring out all we can about Roy?

 

[Roysourboy666]

I don't know how to advance this, but I did a little combo on falco the other day, it was , a up throw on the higher platform of battlefield, so As I was Sayain I did the up throw to up smash, to another up smash, and I don't really remember the rest of the combo, but essentially, it was good, just to have been able to connect 2 up smash, but Hey Cam, I like that move too !
Also, I'm doing up b occasionally, at the end of a combo, just to stress the opponent, so that they will land on platform, and then I do a nair, or something, IDK if its just me , but maybe the Upb at the end of a combo could be used more to setup some mindgames or I could be wrong, plz tell me what you think!
because Roy, is , afterall, our BOY!!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I was sort of surprised to see Roy's Uthrow puts yoshi directly onto PS neutral platform regardless of DI until like 100%. Does something similar to this happen elsewhere?

 

[exarch]

Yes, many characters (few good ones) on several stages.

I think probably his "best" shot at abusing it is vs Doc on BF.
Also iirc vs Sheik can have it happen on YS too.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Is it worth going for up smashes on the stages where they auto-land on the platforms? I'm always P4 (green shield too good) and I see a lot of chances to up smash off the u-throw > auto-land but I'm always disappointed with how little I get from it. Anyone have alternatives? I'm not gonna pick a higher port.

 

[Ripple]

up-smash is pretty *** TBH. you should just waveland on the platform and grab tech chase or try a d/f smash

 

[KirbyKaze]

I have an up smash fetish with every character I play and Roy's sets them on fire. So I try to use it whenever possible but its glaring and obvious weaknesses are getting the better of me. I'll try the waveland stuff.

 

[camerino1]

His u-smash can be great, but yeah, floaties DI out easily and then smack you around. So you're Canadian too, correct? I've heard a lot about you as a played and I'm thinking of getting some advice since I know you're very good. You're Canadian too, so it'd be cool

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm from Uganda.