The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[Gentlepanda]

That would make sense. I was rather surprised they didn't go with that in the first place, but I would be more than happy to see her do it. The fact that we can fit everyone in makes it even better.

my thinking's also that if joker is representing persona (3 onwards) as a whole with the p3/4 skins, then kasumi is most definitely only there to represent P5(R), so it'd make sense to have her skins focusing in on that

i thought about replacing futaba for a uniform colour, given she's never been playable, but i feel like the current uniform reskin (+ purple thief) that joker has was just a quick way of plugging the gap once jane's files were taken out pre-launch

 

[Teeb147]

my thinking's also that if joker is representing persona (3 onwards) as a whole with the p3/4 skins, then kasumi is most definitely only there to represent P5(R), so it'd make sense to have her skins focusing in on that

i thought about replacing futaba for a uniform colour, given she's never been playable, but i feel like the current uniform reskin (+ purple thief) that joker has was just a quick way of plugging the gap once jane's files were taken out pre-launch

I dont think they'd have a new character represent the game that's more joker's. It would feel odd, but I expect more for her to have colors of female characters.

But this made me think of something too. I was surprised they only had mii costumes for the male protagonists, and it got me thinking, what if they actually do have some (like p3's) and would release them along with her?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

While window shopping today, you wouldn't believe what I saw at the book store: a Persona 5 art book. You'd think they'd at least wait until The Royal was out. Still going to get it once I actually have money though.

It's been a couple days, so guess what?

Spoiler: Kasumi Art Share

https://mobile.twitter.com/OrmilleF/status/1122341481484652545

https://mobile.twitter.com/RENAMAMlYA/status/1122631974559072258

https://mobile.twitter.com/zerosshadows/status/1121950875218526208

https://mobile.twitter.com/tyo197snH/status/1122496467824857088

https://mobile.twitter.com/ibisF5/status/1122479908054126594

https://mobile.twitter.com/iincos/status/1122696409227022337

https://mobile.twitter.com/hoo_boii/status/1122700135874449408

https://mobile.twitter.com/Byoru_zzZ/status/1122879189235843073

https://mobile.twitter.com/kiravera8/status/1123063454770896897

https://mobile.twitter.com/kiyomiya682/status/1122847116794023936

https://mobile.twitter.com/liyart_/status/1123233053608960005

https://mobile.twitter.com/koromarunrun/status/1123199787753279488

https://mobile.twitter.com/koromarunrun/status/1123199787753279488

https://mobile.twitter.com/ukitakeponz/status/1123100383285407751

https://mobile.twitter.com/yue_080/status/1123319197788823552

https://mobile.twitter.com/letter_iota/status/1123275970260025344

https://mobile.twitter.com/Master_Hands/status/1122020989892612097

There was a problem fetching the tweet

https://mobile.twitter.com/akcmonzip/status/1123612086716682240

https://mobile.twitter.com/Freed_Alice/status/1123644483436982273

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

https://mobile.twitter.com/YusukeZone/status/1122188822924677120

https://mobile.twitter.com/nekonbini/status/1123578365863190529

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteamyTomatoes/status/1123998855027134465

https://mobile.twitter.com/nite_catcher/status/1124367264210272256

https://mobile.twitter.com/CometSams/status/1121286035340533761

https://mobile.twitter.com/StarGlowTweet/status/1121837193138450441

https://mobile.twitter.com/kankankanro7/status/1123837763877580801

https://mobile.twitter.com/lemontea_star/status/1123926901104553984

https://mobile.twitter.com/mozuyun/status/1124325701790732288

And clearly, the most relevant picture of them all...

https://mobile.twitter.com/artiKun0/status/1122239554566574080

I find it hilarious that Kasumi is sen as such a big eater. It makes sense though, considering the size of her bento box.
Anyway, how do you think they would handle her alts? Would they do something similar to what they did with Joker or would they try a different theme?

Yeah, in this case it won't be surprising when some corners of the fanbase emphasize it.

 

[EarlTamm]

So, here is a question: If Kasumi does turn out to be traitorous, do you expect a personality shift of some kind?

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

Obviously Akechi went through a shift, so I think they wouldn't have her personality shift too much, especially if she thinks she is doing the right thing.

 

[Gentlepanda]

So, here is a question: If Kasumi does turn out to be traitorous, do you expect a personality shift of some kind?

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

Obviously Akechi went through a shift, so I think they wouldn't have her personality shift too much, especially if she thinks she is doing the right thing.

given her apparent admiration of joker?

full yandere mode

 

[EarlTamm]

given her apparent admiration of joker?

full yandere mode

I think we got enough crazy faces from

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

Akechi.

On a more serious point though, are we sure that her admiration for Joker is at all romantically inclined?

 

[Gentlepanda]

are we sure that her admiration for Joker is at all romantically inclined?

not sure, but the similarities of her costume, atlus's precedent with marie, and the possibility of her persona being josephine balsamo (arsene's rival/lover) point that way

 

[EarlTamm]

not sure, but the similarities of her costume, atlus's precedent with marie, and the possibility of her persona being josephine balsamo (arsene's rival/lover) point that way

I would just like to point out that Rise had a thing for Joker right away, so Marie did not start that precedent. Her costume is likely from admiration, but nothing about it hints towards platonic or romantic. As for her Persona, is there anything hinting at Josephine Balsamo?

 

[Gentlepanda]

As for her Persona, is there anything hinting at Josephine Balsamo?

nothing beyond theories, but i've seen it speculated both here and on reddit, since it offers a solid justification for the similarities in outfit and probably also dark ability element (since thief designs barring morgana tend to reflect their persona's element, i.e. psychic purple for haru, holy white for the last party member, and fire red for ann). josephine also uses both a sword and hunting rifle in several of her appearances, as does kasumi.

 

[Teeb147]

nothing beyond theories, but i've seen it speculated both here and on reddit, since it offers a solid justification for the similarities in outfit and probably also dark ability element (since thief designs barring morgana tend to reflect their persona's element, i.e. psychic purple for haru, holy white for the last party member, and fire red for ann). josephine also uses both a sword and hunting rifle in several of her appearances, as does kasumi.

Theories can be cool, but you gotta watch for putting too much into them too. As far as I know josephine (or Countess Cagliostro) is not known for using a sword or a rifle. and I couldn't find anything about any appearance where she does. It's true that she was Arsene's female rival and became a lover though.

If you know someone who's read the works and can pinpoint something about that it'd be good to find. But I think it might just be chatter by people.

 

[EarlTamm]

I don't think it's going to be Josephine due to the fact that every Persona the team has is based in a different story, primarily literature based stories. I doubt we would get two characters from the Arsène Lupin stories.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't think it's going to be Josephine due to the fact that every Persona the team has is based in a different story, primarily literature based stories. I doubt we would get two characters from the Arsène Lupin stories.

Well I think that's the interesting thing. If we do see a persona that's named josephine or something related, we'd have even more parallels

 

[EarlTamm]

Well I think that's the interesting thing. If we do see a persona that's named josephine or something related, we'd have even more parallels

I actually think it would be interesting if she got a Persona that is based from a Sherlock Holmes story, as that would bring a connection while still being separated. I have no clue who that character would be though.

 

[Teeb147]

I actually think it would be interesting if she got a Persona that is based from a Sherlock Holmes story, as that would bring a connection while still being separated. I have no clue who that character would be though.

Ya anything from that era would be interesting,. I'm sure there's some female character names from then that could work, though I dont really know that many myself. I just hope we get to see her persona on may 9th and that they also give the name.

 

[EarlTamm]

One thing I think we should keep in mind when it comes to Kasumi is that she will likely have an English voice actor chosen before she would get into Smash. It would be kinda weird to have her only speak Japanese when Joker can speak both Japanese and English, and even more so when you consider Marth finally getting an English voice this game. Either she gets reveled so close to the Western release of P5R that the voice casting process has been finished for that game or they would have to do casting for Kasumi some time before everyone else.

 

[Izanagi97]

One thing I think we should keep in mind when it comes to Kasumi is that she will likely have an English voice actor chosen before she would get into Smash. It would be kinda weird to have her only speak Japanese when Joker can speak both Japanese and English, and even more so when you consider Marth finally getting an English voice this game. Either she gets reveled so close to the Western release of P5R that the voice casting process has been finished for that game or they would have to do casting for Kasumi some time before everyone else.

I'm still kinda hinging on Faye Mata just because Faye and Kasumi's seiyuu voiced the same character that is a source of memes

 

[EarlTamm]

I'm still kinda hinging on Faye Mata just because Faye and Kasumi's seiyuu voiced the same character that is a source of memes

Context?

 

[Izanagi97]

Context?

Faye Mata and Sora Amamiya both voice Aqua (AKA Useless Goddess)

 

[Teeb147]

One thing I think we should keep in mind when it comes to Kasumi is that she will likely have an English voice actor chosen before she would get into Smash. It would be kinda weird to have her only speak Japanese when Joker can speak both Japanese and English, and even more so when you consider Marth finally getting an English voice this game. Either she gets reveled so close to the Western release of P5R that the voice casting process has been finished for that game or they would have to do casting for Kasumi some time before everyone else.

I don't think that's a big problem. It's not unheard of using different voice actors. It's just liked better if it's the same one, you could say

 

[EarlTamm]

Faye Mata and Sora Amamiya both voice Aqua (AKA Useless Goddess)

Do you think she would fit in the role? I am not too familiar with voice actors in general.

I don't think that's a big problem. It's not unheard of using different voice actors. It's just liked better if it's the same one, you could say

Well, you would assume the voice actor they choose for Smash would be the one used in P5R. Kinda feels out of place otherwise.

 

[Teeb147]

Do you think she would fit in the role? I am not too familiar with voice actors in general.

Well, you would assume the voice actor they choose for Smash would be the one used in P5R. Kinda feels out of place otherwise.

Well, that's what I mean, it's not that odd to have different voice actors. But considering that p5r is still planned for october (even if the english version comes later) so I'm guessing they might've already casted the actors.. I dont really know tho. But I'm not really concerned with that ;p

 

[Gentlepanda]

One thing I think we should keep in mind when it comes to Kasumi is that she will likely have an English voice actor chosen before she would get into Smash. It would be kinda weird to have her only speak Japanese when Joker can speak both Japanese and English, and even more so when you consider Marth finally getting an English voice this game. Either she gets reveled so close to the Western release of P5R that the voice casting process has been finished for that game or they would have to do casting for Kasumi some time before everyone else.

an October release around the time of Royal's Japanese would make the most sense in this regard - if we assume another six months between Japanese and Western releases, that's a realistic point at which new voice actors are locked down

I don't think it's going to be Josephine due to the fact that every Persona the team has is based in a different story, primarily literature based stories. I doubt we would get two characters from the Arsène Lupin stories.

i think it's hard to say this with certainty because we've never had a character with such blatant design parallels to another like this before in the series. the closest parallel i can think of is izanagi/magatsu-izanagi, and even then that's because of the ideological contrasts between their users. thief designs generally reflect their base personas, and so if kasumi's design is a female joker, it can equally be assumed that her persona's design will resemble a female arsene. that similarity wouldn't make much sense unless some kind of connection between arsene and her persona exists.

i have seen it argued that josephine isn't likely because she isn't a hero in her original story, though i'm not sure i agree with that, either. while all the party's personas are generally heroes, black mask's true persona definitely isn't a hero of most stories, but he is occasionally an antihero (and if their presence in P5R cutscenes indicates that they rejoin the party after their battle, that's the angle they're going with this time). josephine, at the very least, is sometimes on arsene's side--like how kasumi's ties to the thieves seem flaky at best, but mostly driven by her admiration (however we take that) of joker.

i also think there's likely a reason they've held off from immediately revealing her persona; if it is josephine, for example, then her status as both an ally and enemy of arsene carries implications for the story.

 

[EarlTamm]

an October release around the time of Royal's Japanese would make the most sense in this regard - if we assume another six months between Japanese and Western releases, that's a realistic point at which new voice actors are locked down

That would make sense. I just wonder if that's how it actually is, considering I have heard that Atlus has not always been the best in this regard.

i think it's hard to say this with certainty because we've never had a character with such blatant design parallels to another like this before in the series. the closest parallel i can think of is izanagi/magatsu-izanagi, and even then that's because of the ideological contrasts between their users. thief designs generally reflect their base personas, and so if kasumi's design is a female joker, it can equally be assumed that her persona's design will resemble a female arsene. that similarity wouldn't make much sense unless some kind of connection between arsene and her persona exists.

i have seen it argued that josephine isn't likely because she isn't a hero in her original story, though i'm not sure i agree with that, either. while all the party's personas are generally heroes, black mask's true persona definitely isn't a hero of most stories, but he is occasionally an antihero (and if their presence in P5R cutscenes indicates that they rejoin the party after their battle, that's the angle they're going with this time). josephine, at the very least, is sometimes on arsene's side--like how kasumi's ties to the thieves seem flaky at best, but mostly driven by her admiration (however we take that) of joker.

i also think there's likely a reason they've held off from immediately revealing her persona; if it is josephine, for example, then her status as both an ally and enemy of arsene carries implications for the story.

I guess there was also a connection between Yu and Marie due to Izanagi and Izanami. Though, most of the Personas from P4 were all from the same source, Japanese mythology.

I would argue that Milady is not exactly a hero. Or the Necronomicon.

I guess, but it doesn't really matter when you reveal it. Give the internet a maximum of a week and it's sure to find any surface level symbolic connections.

 

[Gentlepanda]

That would make sense. I just wonder if that's how it actually is, considering I have heard that Atlus has not always been the best in this regard.

they tend to be quick enough at hiring voices during localisation - for example, the english voices were all set by the time of the character trailers in november 2016, just two months after P5's japanese release

 

[EarlTamm]

they tend to be quick enough at hiring voices during localisation - for example, the english voices were all set by the time of the character trailers in november 2016, just two months after P5's japanese release

Good to know.

Also, can I just say it's rather funny comparing how on the fence you were about Kasumi before the trailer to how you are now? Because it is, especially with some of the shenanigans that happens in the Ultimate Social Thread.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Good to know.

Also, can I just say it's rather funny comparing how on the fence you were about Kasumi before the trailer to how you are now? Because it is, especially with some of the shenanigans that happens in the Ultimate Social Thread.

if you gotta go all in you gotta go all in

though really, it's a matter of everything surrounding it at this point compared to before:

• the continued mystery of jane, as well as vaanrose's comments that her model was near-finished and unlikely to have been cut
• kasumi's design being a dead ringer for joker, right down to the three-tailed coat
• melee slashing weapon and one-handed semi-automatic, length be damned
• joker's smash recovery being taken straight from the royal
• though it's most likely just fun coincidences, there's several things about joker's smash moveset--the low-down gun posture (and movement during gun) the up throw imitating kasumi's gesture in one of the animated scenes, the down tilt and up-air being more thematically consistent with a ballerina than anything joker himself does--that make me wonder if bits of smash joker were designed for easy compatibility with kasumi's overall aesthetic and movement style
• dancing kasumi meme magic

 

[EarlTamm]

if you gotta go all in you gotta go all in

though really, it's a matter of everything surrounding it at this point compared to before:

• the continued mystery of jane, as well as vaanrose's comments that her model was near-finished and unlikely to have been cut
• kasumi's design being a dead ringer for joker, right down to the three-tailed cloak
• melee slashing weapon and one-handed semi-automatic, length be damned
• joker's smash recovery being taken straight from the royal
• though it's most likely just fun coincidences, there's several things about joker's smash moveset--the low-down gun posture (and movement during gun) the up throw imitating kasumi's gesture in one of the animated scenes, the down tilt and up-air being more thematically consistent with a ballerina than anything joker himself does--that make me wonder if bits of smash joker were designed for easy compatibility with kasumi's overall aesthetic and movement style
• dancing kasumi meme magic

Yup, all things I can agree on. Really, it's just a matter of seeing the Persona now. If it manages to continue this trend of support, pretty much nothing is standing in Kasumi's way from an echo perspective. Knowing that, this Persona should hopefully be just a humanoid shape and have wings or some other flight appendage.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Yup, all things I can agree on. Really, it's just a matter of seeing the Persona now. If it manages to continue this trend of support, pretty much nothing is standing in Kasumi's way from an echo perspective. Knowing that, this Persona should hopefully be just a humanoid shape and have wings or some other flight appendage.

even if it doesn't have wings, it's difficult to say how much that affects her chances - my immediate impression would be that it puts a damper on them, but even then, chrom shows they can just change her persona-mode recovery to something else

the fundamental problem is that the 'echo' label is so vague that there's precedent for any number of changes in any areas

 

[Deleted member]

Having Kasumi added as a standalone DLC echo would be great news for me since...

-... I would have in Smash a character I would personally enjoy to have in the roster.
-...Opens the gate for more DLC echoes (and if Erdrick gets in without a certain character as an alt, maybe it would be another chance to potentially have him at last).
-...Could potentially expand the options for standalone DLC outside of Mii costumes with single stages (something I would love).
-... Could arrive with more Persona costumes.

I would honestly enjoy her being added that way for the stuff mentioned.

 

[Gentlepanda]

also gotta say that if they go the josephine balsamo route, then cagliostro is a much cooler persona name than josephine

 

[EarlTamm]

even if it doesn't have wings, it's difficult to say how much that affects her chances - my immediate impression would be that it puts a damper on them, but even then, chrom shows they can just change her persona-mode recovery to something else

the fundamental problem is that the 'echo' label is so vague that there's precedent for any number of changes in any areas

I guess, but I wonder if that move would be given a unique effecr as well. Wings of Rebellion is basically a farther Power of Flight with invincibility.

Having Kasumi added as a standalone DLC echo would be great news for me since...

-... I would have in Smash a character I would personally enjoy to have in the roster.
-...Opens the gate for more DLC echoes (and if Erdrick gets in without a certain character as an alt, maybe it would be another chance to potentially have him at last).
-...Could potentially expand the options for standalone DLC outside of Mii costumes with single stages (something I would love).
-... Could arrive with more Persona costumes.

I would honestly enjoy her being added that way for the stuff mentioned.

Good to see that you would get so much out of this.

also gotta say that if they go the josephine balsamo route, then cagliostro is a much cooler persona name than josephine

Is that another name she has had? If so, then I agree.

I wonder, do you think the codename of Jane could relate to her Persona in some way? I recall Teeb147 connecting Jane to Jack the Ripper, albeit, I think it was one of the victims.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Is that another name she has had? If so, then I agree.

I wonder, do you think the codename of Jane could relate to her Persona in some way? I recall Teeb147 Teeb147 connecting Jane to Jack the Ripper, albeit, I think it was one of the victims.

countess cagliostro is her full title, and probably the more prominent name featured in leblanc's books (e.g. arsene lupin vs. countess cagliostro). kasumi's dress-like cuffs and ballet/elegance fit the whole 'countess' thing quite well, so i'd be surprised if they just went for josephine over cagliostro in that instance.

as for 'jane', i've seen a few theories like teeb's, but to be honest i'm not sure. we've seen from things like arsene being 'doyle' that the names can get pretty indepth (coincidentally, i also think 'jane' is a reference to kasumi herself, just like how 'doyle' and 'jack' were seperate). there's probably some connection to something, but the only thing i've found is that they're both alliterative equivalents on the same meaning ('god is gracious').

the only thing i can think of is that arsene's son is called 'jean', an anagram (and in english, feminine alternative) of 'jane', but it's a loose connection at best:

in this hypothetical scenario, there would be some pretty interesting implications behind cagliostro wielding kasumi like a 'weapon' - we've never really seen personas have autonomy over their wielders before, but it could reflect her ego (i.e. thinking the phantom thieves are in the wrong, joining them for 'her own reasons') driving her motivations and even leading to a more (temporary) villainous role.

 

[EarlTamm]

countess cagliostro is her full title, and probably the more prominent name featured in leblanc's books (e.g. arsene lupin vs. countess cagliostro). kasumi's dress-like cuffs and ballet/elegance fit the whole 'countess' thing quite well, so i'd be surprised if they just went for josephine over cagliostro in that instance.

as for 'jane', i've seen a few theories like teeb's, but to be honest i'm not sure. we've seen from things like arsene being 'doyle' that the names can get pretty indepth (coincidentally, i also think 'jane' is a reference to kasumi herself, just like how 'doyle' and 'jack' were seperate). there's probably some connection to something, but the only thing i've found is that they're both alliterative equivalents on the same meaning ('god is gracious').

the only thing i can think of is that arsene's son is called 'jean', an anagram (and in english, feminine alternative) of 'jane', but it's a loose connection at best:

View attachment 216247

in this hypothetical scenario, there would be some pretty interesting implications behind cagliostro wielding kasumi like a 'weapon' - we've never really seen personas have autonomy over their wielders before, but it could reflect her ego (i.e. thinking the phantom thieves are in the wrong, joining them for 'her own reasons') driving her motivations and even leading to a more (temporary) villainous role.

That would be a rather interesting concept. It would almost be like her own cognition controlling her. It would be pretty cool to see how that dynamic would be and the aftermath of her resisting it.

 

[Gentlepanda]

That would be a rather interesting concept. It would almost be like her own cognition controlling her. It would be pretty cool to see how that dynamic would be and the aftermath of her resisting it.

royal will probably come with a bonus dungeon at any rate, so if she leaves the party and turns against them it'd be neat to have that be her palace (or based around her), going through it to free her from her persona-turned shadow or distorted cognition of self-importance and having her rejoin in time for the finale

even her battle portrait screams security level 99%

 

[EarlTamm]

royal will probably come with a bonus dungeon at any rate, so if she leaves the party and turns against them it'd be neat to have that be her palace (or based around her), going through it to free her from her persona-turned shadow or distorted cognition of self-importance and having her rejoin in time for the finale

even her battle portrait screams security level 99%

View attachment 216262

It does kinda look like that. I think an interesting way of beating the Persona would be having Kasumi rank to 10 after her battle and get her second Persona. That way, Kasumi's relationship with Joker helps break through her ego and realize the mistake she has made, "killing" her previous Persona and granting her a trickster god Persona. Perhaps choosing to romance her before the betrayal might effect her palace as well.

 

[Sigran101]

The P5R news came out.
P5R News
Interesting stuff. Still no sign of Kasumi's persona though.

More new confidants and a bigger third semester than P4G we're highlights for me. And it seems Kasumi is specifically designed to be different from Marie.

 

[Teeb147]

The P5R news came out.
P5R News
Interesting stuff. Still no sign of Kasumi's persona though.

More new confidants and a bigger third semester than P4G we're highlights for me. And it seems Kasumi is specifically designed to be different from Marie.

Is this all we're getting for what was supposed to show up?

I see this at the end: "Weekly Famitsu magazine #1588—or the May 23, 2019 issue—will be released on May 9, 2019. Atlus also previously teased follow-up information on Persona 5 Royal for May 9th. "

Makes me think it's not everything..
I'm not sure what's all supposed to show up. If we dont have anything about her persona that's a bit of a bummer :/

Maybe that's all. Just the famitsu article?

 

[Izanagi97]

Is this all we're getting for what was supposed to show up?

I see this at the end: "Weekly Famitsu magazine #1588—or the May 23, 2019 issue—will be released on May 9, 2019. Atlus also previously teased follow-up information on Persona 5 Royal for May 9th. "

Makes me think it's not everything..
I'm not sure what's all supposed to show up. If we dont have anything about her persona that's a bit of a bummer :/

Maybe that's all. Just the famitsu article?

Probably, unless Atlus is pulling that "announcement of an announcement of an announcement" **** again

 

[Teeb147]

Probably, unless Atlus is pulling that "announcement of an announcement of an announcement" **** again

I just dont know if it was only about the famitsu article, is all.
The official site still says next information on the 9th. Maybe they just didn't update it. But anyway, I'll check back tomorow ;p
https://p5r.jp/mt01/

 

[Sigran101]

I just dont know if it was only about the famitsu article, is all.
The official site still says next information on the 9th. Maybe they just didn't update it. But anyway, I'll check back tomorow ;p
https://p5r.jp/mt01/

The article comes out officially on the 9th. It just leaked early. This is the news.