The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

Teeb147

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The article comes out officially on the 9th. It just leaked early. This is the news.
K. That's what I figured, but i'll still check to see if there's something they missed.

But honestly I was expecting maybe some more gameplay, which wont happen in an article :p
 

EarlTamm

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So, I have seen some of the gameplay trailers released(I would link them, but I am on mobile). I wish I could understand what was being said, but it seems like Kasumi lives to see another day. Any thoughts about the new things we saw of her?
 

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So, I have seen some of the gameplay trailers released(I would link them, but I am on mobile). I wish I could understand what was being said, but it seems like Kasumi lives to see another day. Any thoughts about the new things we saw of her?
the only new thing is footage of kasumi shooting her gun normally (i.e. not in a critical hit animation), where it appears to function exactly like joker's pistol in terms of rate of fire and overall ammunition, rather than being slower/more impactful. though animations would likely change, it suggests that a smash kasumi wouldn't have her neutral B changed too much from joker.


oh we also have her standard portrait for a split second

1557411789930.png
 
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EarlTamm

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this guy's done pretty comprehensive translations

also looks like kasumi now has a character page with a trailer 'coming soon' (hopefully with next month info, as said in the broadcast) - hopefully that'll show off her persona
Huh, the page can't be found on my side. Maybe it's because I am on mobile or something.

I assume this character page is on an offical P5 website. I imagine we will get our first look at her Persona in that trailer.
 

Gentlepanda

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Huh, the page can't be found on my side. Maybe it's because I am on mobile or something.

I assume this character page is on an offical P5 website. I imagine we will get our first look at her Persona in that trailer.
here; it might be a mobile restriction

https://p5r.jp/character/kasumi/
 
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Main takeaway I got from the gameplay is that, unless dev trickery is involved, she hits hard with just her non persona attacks (500+ off a melee crit) and once again has a lot more HP than SP (this time more HP than Yusuke but less SP). The only guess I have for what she will have is that she is a physical fighter with a focus on Crits (I won't be surprised if she has Rebellion in her kit) and maybe an element to hit elemental weaknesses (probably Curse attacks since Akechi lost his curse attacks in PQ2).
 
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Teeb147

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It's pretty cool that her gun rapid fires. Definitely could work easily.

I'm so curious about her persona now XD they just wont show us.
 

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Main takeaway I got from the gameplay is that, unless dev trickery is involved, she hits hard with just her non persona attacks (500+ off a melee crit) and once again has a lot more HP than SP (this time more HP than Yusuke but less SP). The only guess I have for what she will have is that she is a physical fighter with a focus on Crits (I won't be surprised if she has Rebellion in her kit) and maybe an element to hit elemental weaknesses (probably Curse attacks since Akechi lost his curse attacks in PQ2).
i'd assume curse for two reasons:
  • thief design directly paralleling joker, who in turn reflects arsene
  • because arsene isn't permanent, the party doesn't actually have a permanent curse user as it stands
 
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anyway for now i'll maintain my theory that if kasumi gets into smash, she'll be the lucina to joker's marth - a stronger base character with longer range and higher damage (sword > knife, rifle > pistol), but with a weaker persona that doesn't power her up nearly as much. essentially, she'd hover closer to a consistent median damage while joker goes from two extremes of wet noodle to steroid ganondorf, making her easier to play but giving joker bigger murder potential if your time with arsene is maximized.

in this event, i'd also guess that her side special is eiga, the medium damage variant on eiha and eigaon, and that, as part of the whole median damage thing, it wouldn't be upgraded with her persona--reason being that after comparing the range on eiha and eigaon, there's a very clear space for a mid-range move, like a sliding scale that's had a piece taken straight out of it:

1557438207504.png


if she's a curse user (safe to assume) and a mid-game party member (safe-ish to assume because she's such a big new feature), eiga would also be what she starts with, and subsequently an 'iconic' move of hers--like how arsene starts with eiha in the first palace and uses eigaon in the casino prologue, both as your first (and really only) impressions of him.

if i really double down on the theory, then i'd also predict that kasumi's persona will have slightly smaller wings than arsene (weaker recovery), and that her rifle special would only launch a burst of two (more powerful) shots, not three
 
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Teeb147

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anyway for now i'll maintain my theory that if kasumi gets into smash, she'll be the lucina to joker's marth - a stronger base character with longer range and higher damage (sword > knife, rifle > pistol), but with a weaker persona that doesn't power her up nearly as much. essentially, she'd hover closer to a consistent median damage while joker goes from two extremes of wet noodle to steroid ganondorf, making her easier to play but giving joker bigger murder potential if your time with arsene is maximized.

in this event, i'd also guess that her side special is eiga, the medium damage variant on eiha and eigaon, and that, as part of the whole median damage thing, it wouldn't be upgraded with her persona--reason being that after comparing the range on eiha and eigaon, there's a very clear space for a mid-range move, like a sliding scale that's had a piece taken straight out of it:

View attachment 218430

if i really double down on the theory, then i'd also predict that kasumi's persona will have slightly smaller wings than arsene (weaker recovery), and that her rifle special would only launch a burst of two (more powerful) shots, not three
There's not really much to go on to think it'd be on way or another on the persona. I wouldn't call it a theory so much as a concept.
The range difference would be an obvious one, and there'd be a few ways to balance it. I still think it's possible she could use a knife, or a really short sword, because one of the things we've never seen with an echo is have different range on melee attacks. Could still happen tho.

I wouldn't mind if she were stronger without the persona tho (and not as strong as arsene), that'd work nicely for quite a few people im sure.
I just want her in the game :p
 

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There's not really much to go on to think it'd be on way or another on the persona. I wouldn't call it a theory so much as a concept.
The range difference would be an obvious one, and there'd be a few ways to balance it. I still think it's possible she could use a knife, or a really short sword, because one of the things we've never seen with an echo is have different range on melee attacks. Could still happen tho.

I wouldn't mind if she were stronger without the persona tho (and not as strong as arsene), that'd work nicely for quite a few people im sure.
I just want her in the game :p
i'm drawing the bulk of the theory from her weapons, since they functionally seem like souped up versions of joker's weapons with longer range and greater power, and i don't see them just handing off joker's weapons to her in smash. to me, there doesn't seem much of a way to implement them faithfully without weakening the persona to compensate.

part of it also comes from izanagi's observations above: she seems to be more a physically-focused attacker than a magic user, so a heavier emphasis on her own physical attributes than the persona's would add up in this regard.
 

Teeb147

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i'm drawing the bulk of the theory from her weapons, since they functionally seem like souped up versions of joker's weapons with longer range and greater power, and i don't see them just handing off joker's weapons to her in smash. to me, there doesn't seem much of a way to implement them faithfully without weakening the persona to compensate.

part of it also comes from izanagi's observations above: she seems to be more a physically-focused attacker than a magic user, so a heavier emphasis on her own physical attributes than the persona's would add up in this regard.
There are tons of ways to balance, all without touching the persona. So that's why im saying it's more of a specific concept. They could reduce dmg, knockback, speed or landing lag, there's lots of ways. I dont see why arsene would be stronger than hers since he's a starter persona, so whether you do that or give her a shorter sword it all not really faithful. But also since we dont know her persona yet it's hard to say much about it. And we havent seen anything about her magic yet.

But as a possible way to do things, I really like it because joker's pretty inconsistent, and like times where you just get ko'ed and lose arsene arent all that fun :p
It's all fun ideas, all im saying is that we dont know enough to think it'd go that way. not yet anyway.
 

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I'm supporting all the way!

The ideas you guys have come up with are really interesting and she'd honestly be an insta-main if she were added. I don't know how likely that is but it does seem to have some merit to it, much more than I originally thought.
 

EarlTamm

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I'm supporting all the way!

The ideas you guys have come up with are really interesting and she'd honestly be an insta-main if she were added. I don't know how likely that is but it does seem to have some merit to it, much more than I originally thought.
I have added you to the list(Which reminds me, I really need to get around to changing the first post to reflect the current info).

Yeah, there is a lot that could be done with Kasumi, even from an echo perspective. I am glad this thread was able to showcase her merits as a possible future fighter.
 

osby

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I think if Kasumi gets in, she'll play exactly like Joker, his kit is too complicated to play around with.
 

EarlTamm

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I think if Kasumi gets in, she'll play exactly like Joker, his kit is too complicated to play around with.
How so, especially since Kasumi does have slightly different weapons and likely a Persona that is a bit different as well.
 

osby

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How so, especially since Kasumi does have slightly different weapons and likely a Persona that is a bit different as well.
The more complicated a character's moveset, the harder it is to change the parameters and still keep it balanced.

Any clue or information about Kasumi’s Persona?
Nope. I think ATLUS wants it to be a surprise, but who knows.
 

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The more complicated a character's moveset, the harder it is to change the parameters and still keep it balanced.
the only move i don't really see as feasible in a 1:1 transition of knife to sword is his up-tilt.

spinning the sword like joker spins the knife, even if the sword were reduced in size, would look a little weird to say the least.
 

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the only move i don't really see as feasible in a 1:1 transition of knife to sword is his up-tilt.

spinning the sword like joker spins the knife, even if the sword were reduced in size, would look a little weird to say the least.
Yeah, you have a good point there.

If I was adding Kasumi, I would take an approach similar to Isabelle where she has a moveset reminiscent of Joker but with a different approach for many moves (in the same way that Isabelle feels like an expansion of Villager’s moveset).
 

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Yeah, you have a good point there.

If I was adding Kasumi, I would take an approach similar to Isabelle where she has a moveset reminiscent of Joker but with a different approach for many moves (in the same way that Isabelle feels like an expansion of Villager’s moveset).
i don't think she'd be so much like isabelle that she stops being an echo, but something like ken--especially if she's a paid/DLC echo with significant development time dedicated to her--seems very likely.

her weapons, by their very nature of being bigger and more powerful variants on joker's weapons, demand some level of altering the character, so even if none of her moves change outside of up-tilt, i think we'd see a reduction in her persona's strength to compensate for the inherent range advantage the sword length gives base kasumi over base joker.
 
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i don't think she'd be so much like isabelle that she stops being an echo, but something like ken--especially if she's a paid/DLC echo with significant development time dedicated to her--seems very likely.

her weapons, by their very nature of being bigger and more powerful variants on joker's weapons, demand some level of altering the character, so even if none of her moves change outside of up-tilt, i think we'd see a reduction in her persona's strength to compensate for the inherent range advantage the sword length gives base kasumi over base joker.
Ok, that take is actually better for the DLC Echo concept.
 

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Ok, that take is actually better for the DLC Echo concept.
at any rate, it's definitely possible to give her a different 'feel' to joker (like how isabelle/villager don't feel the same to play) while still sharing the bulk of his moves, given previous echoes:

precedent.png


all/any of these can be changed up as much as the team sees fit to properly represent her. i'd also argue that several of joker's current moves--the slide, kicks, acrobatic up-air--seem designed to easily accommodate both joker and kasumi's fighting style with minimal changes (they don't involve the problematic weapon change, for one, but also suit a ballet dancer very well). that's a lot more speculative, though.
 

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I will say, although we don't know anything about her Persona, the fact that so much of her thief getup matches Jokers gives me the impression that her Persona may do the same. A Phantom Thief outfit does often match the Persona, after all.
and if it's not cagliostro/josephine i'll eat my own hypothetical hat
 
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at any rate, it's definitely possible to give her a different 'feel' to joker (like how isabelle/villager don't feel the same to play) while still sharing the bulk of his moves, given previous echoes:

View attachment 219440

all/any of these can be changed up as much as the team sees fit to properly represent her. i'd also argue that several of joker's current moves--the slide, kicks, acrobatic up-air--seem designed to easily accommodate both joker and kasumi's fighting style with minimal changes (they don't involve the problematic weapon change, for one, but also suit a ballet dancer very well). that's a lot more speculative, though.
Yeah animations are easy enough to change, since it's the hitboxes that count the most.
The sword doesn't need to even leave her hands or spin to have the same hitbox, so i wouldn't be too worried about that.

I think range is a big factor in the game, especially for a fast character. Neutral-air in particular would be super good with more range, so there'd be some way to balance it. I just hope they wouldn't increase the landing lag too much, because i like fast characters :p
 

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You know, there is some little aesthetic things to consider when it comes to making Kasumi an echo of Joker. I have no doubt that her final smash will still be an all out attack, but will it have diffrent party formations? Could Akechi or even Joker himself show up for it? Her victory screen can't be the Persona 5 victory screen because she is a party member. And I doubt her taunts will have Morgana as a focus. How do you guys think they will address these traits?
 
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You know, there is some little aesthetic things to consider when it comes to making Kasumi an echo of Joker. I have no doubt that her final smash will still be an all out attack, but will it have diffrent party formations? Could Akechi or even Joker himself show up for it? Her victory screen can't be the Persona 5 victory screen because she is a party member. And I doubt her taunts will have Morgana as a focus. How do you guys think they will address these traits?
That's as simple as making up a new drawing or even removing it an putting back the regular win screen for her.
She's a party member so the same final smash will work tho.

If Robin is any indication, they dont care too much about inconsistencies, if there'd somehow be any. ie Chrom still being in the final smash is kinda weird :p
 
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You know, there is some little aesthetic things to consider when it comes to making Kasumi an echo of Joker. I have no doubt that her final smash will still be an all out attack, but will it have diffrent party formations? Could Akechi or even Joker himself show up for it? Her victory screen can't be the Persona 5 victory screen because she is a party member. And I doubt her taunts will have Morgana as a focus. How do you guys think they will address these traits?
taunts are easy enough: all-out attack pose and two originals, just showing off her weapons/posing, etc.

as for victory screen and all-out attacks... well, i'm gonna spoiler tag this cause i'll be throwing out pretty casual P5 endgame stuff from here on out.
the way i see it, there are two possibilities for party formation/victory screen--one likely, one more out there and theoretical:

first, the boring but likely explanation: standard party formations that exclude akechi and include joker, with combinations cycling to include every thief. joker would be in because he's a permanent party member ingame, similar to chrom/robin!chrom weirdness, but it just uses her all-out attack screen like in P5. victory screen is standard smash stuff, nothing fancy.

now, the crazier one that's just pure speculation and made for the fun of it.

so, we've seen from trailers so far that, during the winter months, some weird **** is going down in the new third semester: human morgana, wakaba's return, and probably more. to me, this seems like a dream-like reality; some kind of induced dream where every party member gets what they want and so no longer feel the need to strive for anything, similar to the sloth induced by mementos' prison of regression (maybe the work of yaldabaoth, or some newly-added final boss like marie in P4G).

my speculation is that, during this new point in the game, we'll take control of kasumi for a bit in a P3 The Answer-type scenario, with the aim being to break the standard thieves out of the dream and get them back in action for the finale. given what we've seen from the trailers--her connection with him as well as his apparent presence in the black mask costume--she might also be joined by akechi in his inevitable redemption arc (though maybe in his crow outfit). why aren't they affected by the dream? **** knows. they both have their own motivations for joining the thieves, though, so that could play into it in some way.

for smash, this would mean two things: one, that her victory screen would be based off the brief period of Royal where she's the party leader; and two, that her all-out attack would finally bring akechi into the fold after his absence with joker. this would also prevent any chrom-style character shenanigans, since she's not using any of the thieves that are fighting 'with' joker.
 
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Yeah I didn't mention the possibility of her being the leader character because it's purely just talk now that we know she's a party member. It might still happen with an arc, in which case the victory screen and everything would already have something to go with, but i'm not counting on it.
 
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EarlTamm

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taunts are easy enough: all-out attack pose and two originals, just showing off her weapons/posing, etc.

as for victory screen and all-out attacks... well, i'm gonna spoiler tag this cause i'll be throwing out pretty casual P5 endgame stuff from here on out.
the way i see it, there are two possibilities for party formation/victory screen--one likely, one more out there and theoretical:

first, the boring but likely explanation: standard party formations that exclude akechi and include joker, with combinations cycling to include every thief. joker would be in because he's a permanent party member ingame, similar to chrom/robin!chrom weirdness, but it just uses her all-out attack screen like in P5. victory screen is standard smash stuff, nothing fancy.

now, the crazier one that's just pure speculation and made for the fun of it.

so, we've seen from trailers so far that, during the winter months, some weird **** is going down in the new third semester: human morgana, wakaba's return, and probably more. to me, this seems like a dream-like reality; some kind of induced dream where every party member gets what they want and so no longer feel the need to strive for anything, similar to the sloth induced by mementos' prison of regression (maybe the work of yaldabaoth, or some newly-added final boss like marie in P4G).

my speculation is that, during this new point in the game, we'll take control of kasumi for a bit in a P3 The Answer-type scenario, with the aim being to break the standard thieves out of the dream and get them back in action for the finale. given what we've seen from the trailers--her connection with him as well as his apparent presence in the black mask costume--she might also be joined by akechi in his inevitable redemption arc (though maybe in his crow outfit). why aren't they affected by the dream? **** knows. they both have their own motivations for joining the thieves, though, so that could play into it in some way.

for smash, this would mean two things: one, that her victory screen would be based off the brief period of Royal where she's the party leader; and two, that her all-out attack would finally bring akechi into the fold after his absence with joker. this would also prevent any chrom-style character shenanigans, since she's not using any of the thieves that are fighting 'with' joker.
The only question I have is this, how would Joker be taken out of the picture, especially since he seems to be noticing these bizarre occurrences?
 
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I don't think joker would be in her all-out attack, for smash because that'd be just weird, (like chrom). I can understand them keeping it for robin from last game a little (tho i think it's a tad lazy), but i dont see them intentionally putting joker in hers when she'd be fighting joker too in smash. I see no problem with the other thieves being in it.

There's plenty of ideas that could be played around with for the victory screen, but i think the easiest is just making it simpler for her and not have her be doing it like he does on the victory screen. But just for fun, (i dont consider them theories), i was playing with the idea of what it'd look like if it was the reverse, where it'd be her in a dream and she'd be the main character there, but i guess that's a little too similar to a palace maybe. The old one I had was that she'd be trailing the phantom thieves at some point either by herself or with akechi and would end up in a palace for a bit of a side arc where she's the main character. I dont feel as good about that idea as i did in the past, Another is what if she has a side arc with morgana and someone else? (maybe you know what im talking about)
As for morgana being human, it does make me wonder what there could be that's new in the game for that to be possible. Like is it just some new gimmick, or is it actually possible to accomplish something that would do that.

It's too bad that the wait seems like it could be long before we get some more clues or something. At least we have the support thread for if ever, but i think most of my focus is probably going to be on the next dlc characters for a while :p I dont know if e3 is some place we might hear more info on persona tho.
 
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EarlTamm

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I don't think joker would be in her all-out attack, for smash because that'd be just weird, (like chrom). I can understand them keeping it for robin from last game a little (tho i think it's a tad lazy), but i dont see them intentionally putting joker in hers when she'd be fighting joker too in smash. I see no problem with the other thieves being in it.
It would be weird, but Joker is a mandatory member of the party in Persona 5, so Sakurai pulling another Chrom is not unfeasible. Talking about this all out attack stuff has also made me realize, they are likely going to keep the Phantom Thief comments to Joker. I imagine they would just have Kasumi say all of her lines, as she is an actual talking character in P5R.
 
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It would be weird, but Joker is a mandatory member of the party in Persona 5, so Sakurai pulling another Chrom is not unfeasible. Talking about this all out attack stuff has also made me realize, they are likely going to keep the Phantom Thief comments to Joker. I imagine they would just have Kasumi say all of her lines, as she is an actual talking character in P5R.
I think it's a good point, but in terms of taking liberties, which they do, i dont think omitting joker from it is that big of a deal. Maybe it's a bit subjective tho. I just see it as less of a deal than arsene needing to be re-awakened each time or being able to use eiha without a persona.

And some other characters in the game can perform all out attacks, so to me i dont think it always has to be with joker.
I'm not very concerned with those aspects since i think nintendo can easily fill the gaps if they need to. Not that it's not worth talking about tho ;)
 

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Do you guys think Kasumi will get a school uniform alt like Joker? That would be cool to see, but she is lacking something to stand in for her mask(Joker has his glasses), so I am not sure if it would happen.
 

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Do you guys think Kasumi will get a school uniform alt like Joker? That would be cool to see, but she is lacking something to stand in for her mask(Joker has his glasses), so I am not sure if it would happen.
i have a feeling that's why there were two kasumi skins being built from joker - one thief, one uniform. the uniform is arguably her more iconic look, anyway - it even features on the box-art when the other party members are in their thief costumes.

the glasses were a neat little touch by sakurai for replicating joker's mask/changing portrait, but probably not actually necessary for kasumi.
 
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