The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[EarlTamm]

Spoiler: School Uniform

Spoiler: Cendrillion

The Character:
This is the newcomer support thread of the new party member of Person 5 Royal, Kasumi. She will be one of the later party members of P5R and has some notably connections to Joker himself through her design, thematic elements, and her Persona.

History:

Spoiler: Major Kasumi Related Trailers

Spoiler: Pre-1st Trailer Speculation History/History Stated in the First Version of this Post

On March 23rd, Atlus showed us a sneak peak of their next Persona game in the form of this short teaser. The teaser only showed us two new things of note, that being the full title(Persona 5 The Royal) and a girl with red hair and a ponytail that was not in the original P5. The only notable things we could get off her besides her appearance was the fact that she seems to dislike the Phantom Thieves, though how exactly it translates in wording is up to some debate. That on it's own would be interesting, but there was one more factor at play that made hey nature even more complex.

The fact that the Smash and Persona community might've gotten an early glimpse at her existence.

In February, an individual called Dr.HyperCake searched through the data in Smash Ultimate and found some very interesting files.

Spoiler: Tweets

Digging through LVD files in Ultimate, and I found "Jack_Menentoes_" lying around amongst the strings. The format of this string matches stage name strings in ui_stage_db ("[Series]_[Stage]"), and Joker's internal name is "jack". Mementos stage confirmed? pic.twitter.com/eCh3PxU2bR

— Dr. HyperCake (@DrHyperCake) February 20, 2019

There is another reference to "Jack" that I feel should be mentioned: "/Jack6_C06_v01_070925.mb_Jane1_pony_hairSystemShape2.mchp"". @jam1garner was the first to notice it in the string dump. I've seen some interesting theories about what "Jane" could refer to relative to Joker.

— Dr. HyperCake (@DrHyperCake) February 22, 2019

Besides showing us a glimpse of what Jokers stage would be(Mementos), he found a costume file referred to as "Jane" and had ponytail physics attached to it. This naturally caused some confusion and debate, with the most prominent idea being formed was that this was a FeMC for the teased P5R(At the time we only knew the name and when the above teaser trailer would be released). Many tried to find other justifications for the code from what we had known at the time, but the P5R teaser made it pretty clear with the reveal of the ponytail wearing girl. There was a distinct possibility that this girl was the Jane in the code, and many looked forward to her possible reveal.

Upon Jokers release however, there was no sign of Jane. Where her costume had been in the data now had Jokers school uniform. But with the release of the DLC and new version came new data. Most importantly, it was found out that none of the other Phantom Thieves or Arsène was referred to as Jane, with the PTs being refereed to as there in game code names and Arsène being called Doyle. It was also discovered that her model was likely almost complete as well, making her lack of appearance even more confusing.

Spoiler: Tweets

The Phantom Thieves background characters use their codenames, e.g. "p_skull". At the moment, it seems there's no sign of anything related to "jane".

— Dr. HyperCake (@DrHyperCake) April 19, 2019

Talking to @vaanrose, there is a couple of things weird about this:
1. The file name makes it painfully clear it's an alt for Joker (the 7th one).
2. The file type is for Maya nhair vertex caching, which should be the last step after modeling, rigging texturing and animating. https://t.co/vSdUbIkbXd

— Pushdustin (Will) @ GDC (@PushDustIn) April 20, 2019

After her full introduction and subsequent personal trailer introduction, little came that contradicted what was found in regard to Jane or the possibility of her being similar to Joker. Little is still known about her, as even her Phantom Thief name is still a mystery, and her impcat on the plot is still up in the air.
While there is always the chance that she was scrapped entirely, the fact that Atlus let Sakurai and his team know of existence and work with her to the point of near completion makes that seem rather bizarre. It is very possible that she is being held back, either as some sort of DLC costume or echo fighter(Many clones get there start as costumes development wise), until we know more about P5R or get to some sort of new type of DLC.

Possible Moveset:
From what we have seen of P5R so far, she wields a sword and a rifle/ Her Persona, Cendrillion, majors in Bless and physical attacks. She is also noted for being the inspiration for Joker to use his grappling hook as an attack, likely meaning she can do the same. She can very likely pull most of what Joker can, making echo status seem the most fitting for her.

Support List:
Like this first post or voice wanting to be on the list to be put on.

Spoiler: Names

EarlTamm
Teeb147
Clumsyzephyr
Ramen Tengoku
Rie Sonomura
KatKit
Gentlepanda
@JDCabrera
Peripuff
NintenZ
Guh-Huzzah!
UtopianPoyzin
Sigran101
amageish
Lamperouge
SillyGoose21
@Bolderousness
♕Pretty Roger♕
GaminGryff
Smush

Notes:
This first post will be edited as things change in regards to this character and her support, or in the case of any errors with the post itself.

Any P5R Spoilers can be discussed here, but they must be put in a spoiler tab.

Thank you for reading!

Links to other Persona Threads:
Joker Social Thread
Akechi Support Thread
Morgana Support Thread
Persona Series Thread
Yu Natukami and Minato Yuki Support Thread

 

[Teeb147]

I didn't expect you to make a page for her XD Good one.

Here's another tweet that was maybe useful for about the morgana question

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The link you put in the joker thread didn't work for me btw.

 

[EarlTamm]

I didn't expect you to make a page for her XD Good one.

Here's another tweet that was maybe useful for about the morgana question

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The link you put in the joker thread didn't work for me btw.

I fixed it earlier. I have no clue why it broke. Also, thanks for that tweet. I knew that tweet existed somewhere and the point should be addressed, I just didn't know where to look.

 

[Teeb147]

The question is, is this the jane from the datamine?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I'm just gonna consider her to be cut content that was removed for reasons. Seems like a pretty likely scenario

 

[EarlTamm]

View attachment 210694

The question is, is this the jane from the datamine?

It's something I kinda take for granted most of the time, as we technically don't know for sure. I would be shocked if they were not the same.

All I do know is that you just gave me our first poll question.

I'm just gonna consider her to be cut content that was removed for reasons. Seems like a pretty likely scenario

Maybe, but from the look of things she was almost complete model wise. That feels a touch strange to just scrap out of nowhere.

 

[Teeb147]

It's something I kinda take for granted most of the time, as we technically don't know for sure. I would be shocked if they were not the same.

All I do know is that you just gave me our first poll question.

I think it's probably her codename used by nintendo, if anything. So we can still use that plus whatever name they'll give us for her in p5r.

I'm just gonna consider her to be cut content that was removed for reasons. Seems like a pretty likely scenario

Possibly, but there's always a chance that she was worked on for something after her reveal..

 

[EarlTamm]

I think it's probably her codename, if anything. So we can still use that plus whatever name they'll give us for her in p5r.

I know that it's probably not her actual name, it's just weather or not Jane and the P5R girl are one in the same. It will be weird to refer to her as something different when we actually do learn more about her.

 

[Teeb147]

I know that it's probably not her actual name, it's just weather or not Jane and the P5R girl are one in the same. It will be weird to refer to her as something different when we actually do learn more about her.

Yeah I just wanted to make it clear, even if it's somewhat obvious. Jane could be something or someone else, but it seems like pretty good timing with everything, so maybe they at least tried to make her as a costume at first, or at least to see something about that, and now whether or not she can still get in the game as extra costumes or an echo later on is a mystery of itself

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah I just wanted to make it clear, even if it's somewhat obvious. Jane could be something or someone else, but it seems like pretty good timing with everything, so maybe they at least tried to make her as a costume at first, or at least to see something about that, and now whether or not she can still get in the game as extra costumes or an echo later on is a mystery of itself

The thing about that is from the look of things, they test that sort of stuff out before they do any modeling. You have probably seen Sakurai's design process. He likes to use figures and things like that to see positioning and such, so I don't think they would fully model a character to test that sort of thing and then throw it to the wayside when it didn't work.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm going to quote my post about the holmes stuff here, so that everyone can see some new connections that can be made just from 'Doyle' showing up as a codename:

Hey all,
so I was looking up some things around the codenames we've come to know in the datamine, and found some interesting stuff.
Bear in mind that a lot of what I'm going to present are based on connections, so take it very lightly, but it's still pretty fascinating even if there isn't necessarily anything there.

We found out that Joker's persona, Arsene, was codenamed Doyle, most likely after the author of Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle.
The author of Arsene Lupin (Maurice Leblanc) has written about sherlock holmes in his own stories, and later had to change the name because doyle pressed him legally in order to have it changed. He changed the name to Herlock Sholmes after that. There was a collection of the stories called Arsène Lupin versus Herlock Sholmes. Both characters are very famous and have been connected in quite a few ways, so that can explain why they chose Doyle for joker's persona, who was inspired by Arsene Lupin.

What's another story that has a thief and a detective? Persona 5. I had been wondering if there was more inspiration from that era onto the other characters in the game, and that's where i found some cool stuff. Now, some of it involves a dark case, and I 'll have to talk about some perona spoilers after it, so read only the rest if you're ok with that and played or watched most of persona 5 (i'll put it in spoilers tho). One big story that was often interlinked with sherlock holmes is Jack the ripper. The first Sherlock Holmes book was written not long before the first case. and while Doyle didn't write about jack, there were theories surrounding him and a friend of his that may have investigated the case. Sherlock also had tons of stories and movies involving it.

Out of the books, there's one author who was also a journalist, Stephen Knight, who wrote about a 'royal' conspiracy behind the attacks, and there were other things and even movies based from those kinds of stories, including "A Study in Terror" and "Murder by Decree" which both had Sherlock Holmes in it and followed the royal conspiracy theory. A later story by someone else was even called Sherlock Holmes and the Royal Flush. I'm not making this up, you can look it up.

And do you know who the last victim was that made the character even more infamous due to 'getting away with it' and never having been caught? Mary Jane Kelly. Of course, she was featured in some of those stories and movies. Now, besides Joker having a knife, there's no direct connection with jack the ripper, but his codename was still jack, and then we find about a Jane, and now a Doyle connected with Arsene. And the thing is, Doyle is supposed to be with the detective side, not with jack, so just like the name change for sherlock in the Arsene works, something's been reversed here too. (Or we could also put the funny idea that instead of it being Leblanc that stole the fictional name, it's Arsene who stole the author's name.)

Now I need to get into persona 5 spoilers to add a bit more

Spoiler

If youve watched or played the game, you know that there's another 'reversal' that happens, where someone who's supposed to be a good person is actually not, and the thieves are actually 'good'. Some of the themes are flipped, which is something cool that can happen in works that use stories that already exist for inspiration. Jack is still pursued by the detective, but it's different, and we dont know much about jane, but she could be another flip of the role being victim to jack somehow, or even one of the detective.

So, you can take it as you will, I'm just sharing it because I think it's interesting and maybe possible those were actually themes that were either inspired in the background for some characters, or flat-out involved in the new p5r game, for one because of the codenames but also because it's called The Royal.
I'm really just putting the ideas there, there might be more to it, or it might just be very loose connections, or not much at all. In any case I hope it's at least enjoyable to think about.

And that catches us up to speed with things in this thread now

The thing about that is from the look of things, they test that sort of stuff out before they do any modeling. You have probably seen Sakurai's design process. He likes to use figures and things like that to see positioning and such, so I don't think they would fully model a character to test that sort of thing and then throw it to the wayside when it didn't work.

Well you do have to test with your models to see how everything looks and plays, and I would guess that the fact they would have hair animation files means they're pretty late into developping the model, if that's how it is.

 

[EarlTamm]

Well you do have to test with your models to see how everything looks, and I would guess that the fact they would have hair animation files means they're pretty late into developping the model, if that's how it is.

Of course, that goes with about everything. I doubt anything related to it would get her cut though.

Also, I assume you want to be on the support list, correct?

 

[Teeb147]

Of course, that goes with about everything. I doubt anything related to it would get her cut though.

Also, I assume you want to be on the support list, correct?

haha I guess I forgot about that. Yes you can put me in it.

If she'd been cut I would think it's either because they didnt find it fit together enough as a costume or they couldn't finish in time and wouldn't want to keep the project going (tho i think they'd have time to work on a few extra things now that the base game is done).
Like, it could've been just a try out, rather than a plan. But I'd think nintendo and atlus would have arranged a plan. It's hard to tell anything, but maybe a bit of info coming soon will settle a few things. hopefully ;p

 

[EarlTamm]

haha I guess I forgot about that. Yes you can put me in it.

If she'd been cut I would think it's either because they didnt find it fit together enough as a costume or they couldn't finish in time and wouldn't want to keep the project going (tho i think they'd have time to work on a few extra things now that the base game is done).
Like, it could've been just a try out, rather than a plan. But I'd think nintendo and atlus would have arranged a plan. It's hard to tell anything, but maybe a bit of info coming soon will settle a few things. hopefully ;p

I put you on.

I think there was a plan, especially since Atlus did not have to show anyhing related to P5R to Nintendo or Sakurai. I don't think this was case of running out of time, as we would have gotten color alts instead of the uniform costume we got. How much it fit could be it, but I feel like that would've been worked out well before any modeling was done, as it's easy to determine that sort of thing. If she has spear rather than a knife or a giant mech Persona, obviously she wouldn't work as an alt. But they still started it, so I assume they thought it would fit from the drawing board.

 

[Teeb147]

I put you on.

I think there was a plan, especially since Atlus did not have to show anyhing related to P5R to Nintendo or Sakurai. I don't think this was case of running out of time, as we would have gotten color alts instead of the uniform costume we got. How much it fit could be it, but I feel like that would've been worked out well before any modeling was done, as it's easy to determine that sort of thing. If she has spear rather than a knife or a giant mech Persona, obviously she wouldn't work as an alt. But they still started it, so I assume they thought it would fit from the drawing board.

I do think it can be a strong point for her about p5r. Because let's say 'the royal' really was inspired by the sherlock holmes stuff, then essentially even just the codenames would mean they talked to them about p5r. I think they would only do that if there was a reason to talk about p5r, and so far we havent seen anything suggesting that (being new).
Doesn't mean they wouldn't scrap her. I only say that because we've heard nothing about it. Which would make sense as a surprise later on, but not a lot of people have talked about echo as dlc

 

[Ben Holt]

My wishful thinking: DLC character costumes confirmed!

 

[EarlTamm]

My wishful thinking: DLC character costumes confirmed!

That is certainly possible. We know from Smash 4 that the number of alts a character can have can go past 8, so maybe they just wanted everyone to be on an equal playing field alt wise for base game.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

The thing about that is from the look of things, they test that sort of stuff out before they do any modeling. You have probably seen Sakurai's design process. He likes to use figures and things like that to see positioning and such, so I don't think they would fully model a character to test that sort of thing and then throw it to the wayside when it didn't work.

This is what I was thinking, the file type suggests they were at a stage where the modeling, rigging, texturing, and animating were done.

Oh, can you add me to the support list too?

 

[EarlTamm]

This is what I was thinking, the file type suggests they were at a stage where the modeling, rigging, texturing, and animating were done.

Oh, can you add me to the support list too?

Time is money after all, so having all that work done only to toss it aside and replace it with a completely different costumes just seems strange.

I also added you to the list.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-324#post-20011953

Here's something that was found regarding the site.

 

[EarlTamm]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-324#post-20011953

Here's something that was found regarding the site.

Thank you for this.

I have been thinking, and it really does make more sense for Jane to be an echo fighter over a costume for a multitude of reason's. While I don't doubt that you can change Joker himself easily to Jane, when it comes to Arsène I start to question things. Personas can be weird and can often differ in how they are structured compared to each other, so alting Arsène would be made all the more difficult unless Jane's Persona is almost identical in it's form, which I think is rather unlikely unless some funky story stuff is going on in P5R. Another thing worth noting in this regard is Jokers Final Smash, All-Out Attack. With how much detail that goes into it to make it as accurate as possible, having Jane do it exactly the same way doesn't seem right. The FS also ignores whatever alt you are wearing on Joker at the time, only ever using the same Joker art he used in P5, so having Jane be an alt seems even less likely. I don't think an alt can change the animations itself or the art depicted in the FS, so an echo is the most logical workaround.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Thank you for this.

I have been thinking, and it really does make more sense for Jane to be an echo fighter over a costume for a multitude of reason's. While I don't doubt that you can change Joker himself easily to Jane, when it comes to Arsène I start to question things. Personas can be weird and can often differ in how they are structured compared to each other, so alting Arsène would be made all the more difficult unless Jane's Persona is almost identical in it's form, which I think is rather unlikely unless some funky story stuff is going on in P5R. Another thing worth noting in this regard is Jokers Final Smash, All-Out Attack. With how much detail that goes into it to make it as accurate as possible, having Jane do it exactly the same way doesn't seem right. The FS also ignores whatever alt you are wearing on Joker at the time, only ever using the same Joker art he used in P5, so having Jane be an alt seems even less likely. I don't think an alt can change the animations itself or the art depicted in the FS, so an echo is the most logical workaround.

That's a really interesting point, I don't think I've seen anyone bring up the artwork in the fs. So Jane couldn't have been an alt in the first place then, only an echo.

 

[EarlTamm]

That's a really interesting point, I don't think I've seen anyone bring up the artwork in the fs. So Jane couldn't have been an alt in the first place then, only an echo.

Some echo's have started as apart of the character they are cloning, though for character like Lucina that was more of an accidental case. I doubt they pulled the school costume out of nowhere, so they might've very well had plans on how to fill the 8 slots that did not include Jane. I imagine when you are developing the basics of a characters gameplay, having both versions of the character you have planned filling being one in the same for a bit can be mighty helpful, especially in early testing phases. When differences finally are required for the gameplay and aesthetics, then you can separate the two and go on your way.

Another similar thing to note, unless Jane actually is a FeMC or has some relation to Morgana, Jokers current taunts might not fit Jane very well and would be hard to explain. Sure you could still change what Morgana says, but the reason he is there is because he is incredibly linked to Joker, especially in real world situations. You sometimes take it for granted, but Morgana is basically carried around by Joker 24/7, is at school with him, and of course, Morgana tells him to go to bed. Heck, Morgana is with Joker on that big everyone is here art piece. If Jane ain't a FeMC, then having Morgana as a taunt would feel kinda off.

 

[Teeb147]

Thank you for this.

I have been thinking, and it really does make more sense for Jane to be an echo fighter over a costume for a multitude of reason's. While I don't doubt that you can change Joker himself easily to Jane, when it comes to Arsène I start to question things. Personas can be weird and can often differ in how they are structured compared to each other, so alting Arsène would be made all the more difficult unless Jane's Persona is almost identical in it's form, which I think is rather unlikely unless some funky story stuff is going on in P5R. Another thing worth noting in this regard is Jokers Final Smash, All-Out Attack. With how much detail that goes into it to make it as accurate as possible, having Jane do it exactly the same way doesn't seem right. The FS also ignores whatever alt you are wearing on Joker at the time, only ever using the same Joker art he used in P5, so having Jane be an alt seems even less likely. I don't think an alt can change the animations itself or the art depicted in the FS, so an echo is the most logical workaround.

Technically speaking, it wouldn't be hard to program a change of art based on the costume. You just say 'if costume X then [function to change art]'.
As far as do they want to do that? that's another question or could be part of why they might opt not to go the costume route, in order to set them apart in gameplay too.

Some echo's have started as apart of the character they are cloning, though for character like Lucina that was more of an accidental case. I doubt they pulled the school costume out of nowhere, so they might've very well had plans on how to fill the 8 slots that did not include Jane. I imagine when you are developing the basics of a characters gameplay, having both versions of the character you have planned filling being one in the same for a bit can be mighty helpful, especially in early testing phases. When differences finally are required for the gameplay and aesthetics, then you can separate the two and go on your way.

Another similar thing to note, unless Jane actually is a FeMC or has some relation to Morgana, Jokers current taunts might not fit Jane very well and would be hard to explain. Sure you could still change what Morgana says, but the reason he is there is because he is incredibly linked to Joker, especially in real world situations. You sometimes take it for granted, but Morgana is basically carried around by Joker 24/7, is at school with him, and of course, Morgana tells him to go to bed. Heck, Morgana is with Joker on that big everyone is here art piece. If Jane ain't a FeMC, then having Morgana as a taunt would feel kinda off.

That one's an interesting one, actually, because I've felt like the school uniform models look less detailed, maybe more rushed. Might not be the case, but I could see it being where she was before, especially with the datamine ;p

And i mostly agree about the taunts and all that. But the thing is dont forget alts like female corrin and robin have different voice acting, so it's not too different from changing lines from a taunt either. If she doesn't become a phantom thief though it would be weird for her to have morgana as well as those victory screens. In the end it might just be the many little things like that that could make them change idea into an echo.

Unless it really was fully just for testing and all according to plan (except the strings found in the data ;p)

 

[EarlTamm]

Technically speaking, it wouldn't be hard to program a change of art based on the costume. You just say 'if costume X then [function to change art]'.
As far as do they want to do that? that's another question or could be part of why they might opt not to go the costume route, in order to set them apart in gameplay too.

The problem however is that if the animation they do before that pose does not match, which is very likely unless Jane is a FeMC, then that won't matter.

That one's an interesting one, actually, because I've felt like the school uniform models look less detailed, maybe more rushed. Might not be the case, but I could see it being where she was before, especially with the datamine ;p

And i mostly agree about the taunts and all that. But the thing is dont forget alts like female corrin and robin have different voice acting, so it's not too different from changing lines from a taunt either. If she doesn't become a phantom thief though it would be weird for her to have morgana as well as those victory screens. In the end it might just be the many little things like that that could make them change idea into an echo.

Unless it really was fully just for testing and all according to plan (except the strings found in the data ;p)

I guess for the school uniforms, but I still doubt they pulled them out of nowhere. If they were forced into some sort of crunch time, they probably would've gone for some more basic colo art. I think the less detail is just due to the base Joker alt being around longer.

And that is what I meant when it came to Morgana. They could keep it she is an alt, but depending on Jane's role in P5R it could be weird.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

If she was a femc, do you think she'd have the same aoa pose or a unique one?

 

[GoodGrief741]

My money's on Jane being Joker's female police costume, and that it got cut, possibly for ratings issues.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

My money's on Jane being Joker's female police costume, and that it got cut, possibly for ratings issues.

That doesn't have a ponytail though

 

[EarlTamm]

If she was a femc, do you think she'd have the same aoa pose or a unique one?

I take a similar logic to if her Phantom thief attire is different. If she wears the same thing as Joker, then it will be the same pose. If she has a different outfit, she will do something different. And whether or not it's different depends if they are taking more of a rule 63 route with the FeMC's personality and story or are doing something more.

My money's on Jane being Joker's female police costume, and that it got cut, possibly for ratings issues.

But that costume does not have a ponytail. And if they were able to put a gun into his moveset while also having Bayo, then I doubt this would be the case. Plus, they seem to mainly be focusing on the original P5 game, with no focus on any of the spinoffs. How could a costume from the dancing game make it in when not even any of the dancing games remix's can make it?

 

[Teeb147]

The problem however is that if the animation they do before that pose does not match, which is very likely unless Jane is a FeMC, then that won't matter.

I guess for the school uniforms, but I still doubt they pulled them out of nowhere. If they were forced into some sort of crunch time, they probably would've gone for some more basic colo art. I think the less detail is just due to the base Joker alt being around longer.

And that is what I meant when it came to Morgana. They could keep it she is an alt, but depending on Jane's role in P5R it could be weird.

Not sure I understand because wasn't the pose close to sheik's final smash? im sure it could fit a lot of characters, but i f you mean the art at the end that would need to be changed for sure anyway. But, it really just comes down to what they thought could match and what couldn't, or if there were too many little changes to justify it as a costume, and what was part of the plan.

Anyway, gonna go sleep now. good going on starting up the thread.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That doesn't have a ponytail though

That could be a redesign. Admittedly, I'm not well versed in modeling or any of that stuff, but could the hair just be labeled a ponytail and not actually be one?

But that costume does not have a ponytail. And if they were able to put a gun into his moveset while also having Bayo, then I doubt this would be the case. Plus, they seem to mainly be focusing on the original P5 game, with no focus on any of the spinoffs. How could a costume from the dancing game make it in when not even any of the dancing games remix's can make it?

It doesn't seem that odd to me. I find it more improbable that they would have added a character from an unreleased version of the game, model her, and then cut her for no reason.

 

[EarlTamm]

That could be a redesign. Admittedly, I'm not well versed in modeling or any of that stuff, but could the hair just be labeled a ponytail and not actually be one?

Not likely for either one. I don't see why they would make that change in the first place, especially with everything else Persona related trying to be very accurate and the change being unnecessary, and from what I could gather that is not a thing you would do when modeling as you want to be specific and not cause possible confusion.

It doesn't seem that odd to me. I find it more improbable that they would have added a character from an unreleased version of the game, model her, and then cut her for no reason.

Well Smash has put in unreleased characters before, most notably Roy, and this thread is in discussion on how perhaps she wa snot cut but is instead being saved for a later date, possibly for when we know more about P5R.

I will admit, I am kinda surprised by how many people are voting that they don't think Jane is the girl we saw in the P5R trailer. Guess I have just been too close to the developments of the topic itself, but I am curious as to what some people think Jane actually was if not the P5R girl. Obviously GoodGrief741 is giving his two cents on the topic right at this very moment, but as a certain pancake boy once paraphrased...
"Advancement cannot occur without both thesis and antithesis."

So in other words, hurl arguments at the thread and lets see what sticks.

 

[Gentlepanda]

poll rn be like

 

[EarlTamm]

poll rn be like

View attachment 210793

Nice.

On a side note, anytime I see kek now I am always reminded of that one Futaba event.

Spoiler

 

[Gentlepanda]

anyway

honestly, i think the biggest problem with jane's absence is that, assuming it's the P5R girl, no theory made to explain it really holds up under scrutiny. it's not cross-dressing joker, it's not morgana, it's not ann, it's not arsene, it wasn't a brief experiment because the model is nearly finished.

if it was cut, why would a whole new game's promotion--certainly one that atlus has been spending the past 4 months hyping up--be sliced out entirely? what kind of beef went down between nintendo and atlus in the first-second month of joker's development to necessitate removing her?

equally, if it was meant to be an echo fighter for later, why finish the model so early? P5R is unlikely to have finalised soejima artwork or an english voice for the girl until the middle of the year at least, and if they were already planning to add her later, why is there no room after joker's two spirits in the files to accommodate presumably two more?

at this point, i'm just sort of reserving judgement until P5R on the 24th can confirm whether or not she's actually a feMC. if she is (and i believe she is from her generic design alone), then jane theories have some life left in them; if she isn't, i'd put her chances down as dead right there and then.

 

[EarlTamm]

anyway

honestly, i think the biggest problem with jane's absence is that, assuming it's the P5R girl, no theory made to explain it really holds up under scrutiny. it's not cross-dressing joker, it's not morgana, it's not ann, it's not arsene, it wasn't a brief experiment because the model is nearly finished.

if it was cut, why would a whole new game's promotion--certainly one that atlus has been spending the past 4 months hyping up--be sliced out entirely? what kind of beef went down between nintendo and atlus in the first-second month of joker's development to necessitate removing her?

equally, if it was meant to be an echo fighter for later, why finish the model so early? P5R is unlikely to have finalised soejima artwork or an english voice for the girl until the middle of the year at least, and if they were already planning to add her later, why is there no room after joker's two spirits in the files to accommodate presumably two more?

at this point, i'm just sort of reserving judgement until P5R on the 24th can confirm whether or not she's actually a feMC. if she is (and i believe she is from her generic design alone), then jane theories have some life left in them; if she isn't, i'd put her chances down as dead right there and then.

While I mostly agree, I wouldn't count her entirely out if she isn't a FeMC, especially in regards to being an echo fighter. I think how she fights is more important than that. Then again, I do think she has some form of playable role in P5R, just not as a FeMC version Joker.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

anyway

honestly, i think the biggest problem with jane's absence is that, assuming it's the P5R girl, no theory made to explain it really holds up under scrutiny. it's not cross-dressing joker, it's not morgana, it's not ann, it's not arsene, it wasn't a brief experiment because the model is nearly finished.

if it was cut, why would a whole new game's promotion--certainly one that atlus has been spending the past 4 months hyping up--be sliced out entirely? what kind of beef went down between nintendo and atlus in the first-second month of joker's development to necessitate removing her?

equally, if it was meant to be an echo fighter for later, why finish the model so early? P5R is unlikely to have finalised soejima artwork or an english voice for the girl until the middle of the year at least, and if they were already planning to add her later, why is there no room after joker's two spirits in the files to accommodate presumably two more?

at this point, i'm just sort of reserving judgement until P5R on the 24th can confirm whether or not she's actually a feMC. if she is (and i believe she is from her generic design alone), then jane theories have some life left in them; if she isn't, i'd put her chances down as dead right there and then.

I agree, to me her design screams "femc" Though we'll know for sure in a few days

 

[EarlTamm]

I agree, to me her design screams "femc" Though we'll know for sure in a few days

Hopefully. We didn't get much last time, so let's hope for slightly more. And I will agree, the design if very much what FeMC would have. Looks very similar to the P3 FeMC as well.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Hopefully. We didn't get much last time, so let's hope for slightly more. And I will agree, the design if very much what FeMC would have. Looks very similar to the P3 FeMC as well.

the design similarity is a large part of what makes me convinced. it's very derivative, but in the wake of P3P's feMC featuring in PQ2 it seems designed to evoke the fanbase's nostalgia for her (hence everyone's immediate assumption before the teaser was translated being 'yup feMC'). her dialogue going against the phantom thieves made people reconsider, but i'd be surprised if that wasn't a well-placed red herring.

 

[Gentlepanda]

also for those who haven't seen it (does double posting apply outside ultimate social thread? idk), vaanrose posted a comprehensive breakdown of the jane situation over on the social thread

honestly, jane originally being 2 of joker's costumes would explain why the purple skin + beige uniform seem kinda thrown in and not based off anything - they could have originally had the following setup:

1: joker
2: uniform
3: p3
4: p4 (these three in keeping with the '3, 4, 5' reference corresponding to their games)
5: p5
6: crow
7: jane thief
8: jane uniform