The New Match-up Chart

[SheerMadness]

I'm gay for your shield parries.

Does this make me gay?

You can be gay for Yoshi with me.

Who else wants to get gay with us?

 

[Deleted member]

You can be gay for Yoshi with me.

Who else wants to get gay with us?

sign me up

 

[Zen Yore]

yoshi sucks i use kirby and pwn u all

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

f*** you zenyore you're not an ULTRA GOD

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated:

Mario = Link to Mario > Link
Link = Samus to Link > Samus
Jigglypuff > Yoshi to Jigglypuff = Yoshi
Jigglypuff > Falcon to Jigglypuff = Falcon
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi should be > than Samus

 

[t3h Icy]

Debating:

Pikachu > Jigglypuff to Pikachu >> Jigglypuff
Pikachu > Samus to Pikachu >> Samus
Pikachu > Falcon to Pikachu = Falcon
Mario > Kirby to Mario = Kirby
Falcon >> Samus to Falcon > Samus
Falcon = Yoshi to Falcon > Yoshi
Samus > Jigglypuff to Samus = Jigglypuff
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

 

[Zen Yore]

Debating:

Pikachu > Jigglypuff to Pikachu >> Jigglypuff
Pikachu > Samus to Pikachu >> Samus
Pikachu > Falcon to Pikachu = Falcon
Mario > Kirby to Mario = Kirby
Falcon >> Samus to Falcon > Samus
Falcon = Yoshi to Falcon > Yoshi
Samus > Jigglypuff to Samus = Jigglypuff
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

imo :

Pikachu > Jigglypuff
Pikachu >> Samus
Pikachu = Falcon
Mario > Kirby
Falcon > Samus
Falcon > Yoshi
Samus > Jigglypuff
Yoshi = Samus

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I found a guy on EGX Godweapon who is called... hmm, SmasherX74 i believe? IIRC he claimed that he beat everybody besides malva and superboom.

Lol Smasherx74

Otherwise:

I agree with Zenyore

 

[Zen Yore]

Lol Smasherx74

Otherwise:

I agree with Zenyore

lol smasher's a moron he says he will 5 stock me with his fireball spamming luigi but when hes at his last stock and i still have four he resets then ragequits the game

he keep callin me a noob for some reason lol

 

[MattNF]

Smasher74 said I have the best link ever

even though I never use link

lolwut

 

[WOTG]

My second opinion on the match-ups;

Luigi < Mario, Luigi = DK, Luigi = Link, Luigi = Samus, Luigi = Falcon, Luigi = Ness, Luigi = Yoshi, Luigi = Kirby, Luigi < Fox, Luigi < Pikachu, Luigi > Jigglypuff

Mario > Luigi, Mario = DK, Mario > Link, Mario > Samus, Mario = Falcon, Mario > Ness, Mario > Yoshi, Mario = Kirby, Mario = Fox, Mario < Pikachu, Mario = Jigglypuff

DK = Luigi, DK = Mario, DK = Link, DK = Samus, DK = Falcon, DK = Ness, DK < Yoshi, DK < Kirby, DK = Fox, DK << Pikachu, DK = Jigglypuff

Link = Luigi, Link < Mario, Link = DK, Link = Samus, Link < Falcon, Link = Ness, Link = Yoshi, Link << Kirby, Link < Fox, Link << Pikachu, Link = Jigglypuff

Samus = Luigi, Samus < Mario, Samus = DK, Samus = Link, Samus < Falcon, Samus = Ness, Samus = Yoshi, Samus < Kirby, Samus << Fox, Samus < Pikachu, Samus = Jigglypuff

Falcon = Luigi, Falcon = Mario, Falcon = DK, Falcon > Link, Falcon > Samus, Falcon = Ness, Falcon = Yoshi, Falcon < Kirby, Falcon = Fox, Falcon = Pikachu, Falcon = Jigglypuff

Ness = Luigi, Ness < Mario, Ness = DK, Ness = Link, Ness = Samus, Ness = Falcon, Ness = Yoshi, Ness < Kirby, Ness = Fox, Ness < Pikachu, Ness = Jigglypuff

Yoshi = Luigi, Yoshi = Mario, Yoshi > DK, Yoshi = Link, Yoshi = Samus, Yoshi = Falcon, Yoshi = Ness, Yoshi << Kirby, Yoshi = Fox, Yoshi << Pikachu, Yoshi = Jigglypuff

Kirby = Luigi, Kirby = Mario, Kirby > DK, Kirby >> Link, Kirby > Samus, Kirby > Falcon, Kirby > Ness, Kirby >> Yoshi, Kirby = Fox, Kirby = Pikachu, Kirby = Jigglypuff

Fox > Luigi, Fox = Mario, Fox = DK, Fox > Link, Fox >> Samus, Fox = Falcon, Fox = Ness, Fox = Yoshi, Fox = Kirby, Fox = Pikachu, Fox > Jigglypuff

Pikachu > Luigi, Pikachu > Mario, Pikachu >> DK, Pikachu >> Link, Pikachu > Samus, Pikachu = Falcon, Pikachu > Ness, Pikachu >> Yoshi, Pikachu = Kirby, Pikachu = Fox, Pikachu > Jigglypuff

Jigglypuff < Luigi, Jigglypuff = Mario, Jigglypuff = DK, Jigglypuff = Link, Jigglypuff = Samus, Jigglypuff = Falcon, Jigglypuff = Ness, Jigglypuff = Yoshi, Jigglypuff = Kirby, Jigglypuff < Fox, Jigglypuff < Pikachu

Any questions, second thoughts? Ehh, I might be doing too much.

Also, Smasherx74 claimed he beat everyone including Malva and Superboomfan, he may be saying otherwise now to cover up, but he's usually bragging about how he's 3 stocked or beat all these amazing players.... He couldn't even beat me the other day, until once when he used Kirby.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Keep smasher outa here now k? xD

If you really feel the need to chat about his foolishness (which for some reason he doesn't pull on me) take it to PMs xO

 

[Nintendude]

I really do not like the way the Jiggly matchups are listed right now. Here's what I think:

Jiggly < Pikachu
Jiggly < Fox
Jiggly = Mario
Jiggly = Kirby
Jiggly = Falcon
Jiggly > Yoshi
Jiggly > Ness
Jiggly = Luigi
Jiggly = DK
Jiggly = Link
Jiggly = Samus

Rest combos are too good.

Debating:

Pikachu > Jigglypuff to Pikachu >> Jigglypuff
Pikachu > Samus to Pikachu >> Samus
Pikachu > Falcon to Pikachu = Falcon
Mario > Kirby to Mario = Kirby
Falcon >> Samus to Falcon > Samus
Falcon = Yoshi to Falcon > Yoshi
Samus > Jigglypuff to Samus = Jigglypuff
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus

Pikachu > Jiggly
Pikachu > Samus
Pikachu = Falcon
Mario = Kirby
Falcon >> Samus
Falcon > Yoshi
Samus = Jigglypuff
Samus = Yoshi

 

[Surri-Sama]

Maybe Mario > Jiggly

just an opinion

everything else i agree with nintendude!

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Just wondering, what makes puff equal with Luigi, and equal to Samus? I have major troubles with the Samus matchup (must just be me not knowing the matchup), and almost everyone seems to say that Luigi >> Jigglypuff, and is her worst matchup.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Just wondering, what makes puff equal with Luigi, and equal to Samus? I have major troubles with the Samus matchup (must just be me not knowing the matchup), and almost everyone seems to say that Luigi >> Jigglypuff, and is her worst matchup.

I agree.

i think puff is one of the few matchups samus is good at.

also, doesn't Luigi's up b kill at 40....the only problem I see is Luigi approachign well, so maybe just a Luigi> not Luigi>>

 

[Blue Yoshi]

And I would argue Fox >> Puff. Lasers, speed, and range/priority send this to Fox's favour in my opinion. Then again, if the Fox player is playing stupid, then Puff >>>>>>>>> Fox, but if both play the same, it's Fox >> Puff.

 

[asianaussie]

Fox >> Puff seems reasonable. Jab/SH D-Air > U-Smash kills really early, lasers make it hard for Puff to approach if used well, plus F-Air seems to get past Jiggs' N-Air pretty well.

Samus > Puff, definitely. D-Air, F-Air, B-Air and even Neut B play havoc with her. If Samus can stack some damage (not hard with the aforementioned moves), then pull off a D-Air > B-Air (or just a B-Air), Puff is going to have trouble. She's just short-stocked in approach options.

I think the Luigi thing stems from Up-B killing at 50% or so, and short hop U-Air leading right into aforementioned Up-B. Also, Luigi can shield-break Puff quite easily (D-Air > N-Air > Up-B) for a kill. Personally, I think Jiggs can fight back just as effectively, as long as the Jiggs player is good with spacing. Luigi's U-Air is very, very dangerous.

 

[Surri-Sama]

lulz fox is easy to combo too so you cant break it that bad...unless you consider the first hit to always lead 0-death...if thats the case yea fox >> jiggly

 

[Blue Yoshi]

lulz fox is easy to combo too so you cant break it that bad...unless you consider the first hit to always lead 0-death...if thats the case yea fox >> jiggly

Isn't the point of a matchup thread to assume both characters are being played at the best possible level? In that case... well, in Fox's case against jiggs... the first hit will usually always lead to death. If we assume it's two low- or mid-level players, then it ruins the point of a matchup chart... doesn't it?

And although Fox is one of the easiest characters for Puff to combo, it doesn't help if Puff can never start a combo against a good smart Fox...

 

[Surri-Sama]

if your going to do that the data is only good to isai and friends, like i said if thats what this thread is about sure

 

[Blue Yoshi]

... well, I meant at around our level. Take you with Pikachu. I'm sure you can up-air across the stage easily... or more-or-less. A fox at the same level can do his own combos (Fair, Bair, *insert attack here*, etc.). Sure it won't always be a kill, but... well... bah just ignore my last post.

Bottom line of what I was trying to say last time, and went way off: Fox can get more first hits on Puff than Puff can on Fox. A decent enough fox can easily out-play a decent enough puff.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Matchup chart data is supposed to be comprised of statistics based on tournament results of the highest ranking players.

"decent enough" isn't good for discussions like this one.

Honnestly I think smoke2joints should just make his own thread where he writes about a different matchup every so often.

Id subscribe.

 

[t3h Icy]

Some Agreement:

Pikachu > Falcon to Pikachu = Falcon
Yoshi > Samus to Yoshi = Samus
Falcon = Yoshi to Falcon > Yoshi
Samus > Jigglypuff to Samus = Jigglypuff

Debating:

Pikachu > Jigglypuff to Pikachu >> Jigglypuff
Pikachu > Samus to Pikachu >> Samus
Mario > Kirby to Mario = Kirby
Falcon >> Samus to Falcon > Samus
Fox >> Jigglypuff to Fox > Jigglypuff
Jigglypuff = Yoshi to Jigglypuff > Yoshi
Luigi >> Jigglypuff to Luigi > Jigglypuff

I'd like to finish some of the longing Match-ups, mainly Jigglypuff vs Pikachu. Most players are agreeing with Pikachu > Jigglypuff, while some say >>. In my opinion, it would be > since Pikachu has advantages through many different ways (priority, speed, projectile, etc). Pikachu can edgeguard Jigglypuff well too, with Bair, Nair and possibly Uair or B-Down. Bthrow also kills ridiculously early. The reason why I wouldn't say >> is because Jigglypuff can combo moderately well and Fthrow works well on Pikachu. Rest also kills Pikachu early since Pikachu is one of the lighter characters, but Pikachu has a much easier time doing combos.

The other one is Pikachu vs Falcon going from > to =. Similar to Jigglypuff, a Fthrow can combo Pikachu well. Falcon though, has much better speed (being the best) and that alone makes it difficult for Pikachu to approach safely, especially against grabs and Uairs. I'm leaning towards = but I still think Pikachu has a better time against Falcon. In my opinion, if Falcon is even with Pikachu, so should Fox via Lasers, speed (again) and Fox combos. Fox also has the easiest time getting back to the edge, compared to Jigglypuff and Falcon.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Pikachu can edgeguard Jigglypuff well too, with Bair, Nair and possibly Uair or B-Down

NEVER!
EVER!
EDGEGUARD!
JIGGLYPUFF!
WITH!
THUNDER!

Fox also has the easiest time getting back to the edge, compared to Jigglypuff and Falcon.

Fox has the hardest time getting back to the ledge. Up-B has way too much start-up lag, and then even the attack itself has little priority. Puff's down-smash beats Fox's moving up-B, meaning that Fox should never recover against Puff. Pika being the best at edgeguarding... bye bye fox.

 

[t3h Icy]

When I said compared with Falcon and Jigglypuff, I meant how well they get to the edge against Pikachu. Jigglypuff edgeguarding Fox is pretty devastating. Falcon recovering vs Pikachu is worse since edgehogging is easier and you're forced to go in one direction. At least Fox can play a slight mindgame with UpB.

If you jump away and back to the edge in the middle of a Thunder and send Jigglypuff back away from the edge, it can eat up some of the remaining jumps. It also can help if Jigglypuff is up high and trying to get past you (which is common, being a floaty). In close combat, I would use Bair the most.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

When I said compared with Falcon and Jigglypuff, I meant how well they get to the edge against Pikachu. Jigglypuff edgeguarding Fox is pretty devastating. Falcon recovering vs Pikachu is worse since edgehogging is easier and you're forced to go in one direction. At least Fox can play a slight mindgame with UpB.

Pika can simply jump out, and after Fox uses up-B, pika can up/down/back/neutral air Fox away. There is always the F-Smash, but then again, the timing on that is pretty hard. It's not like the F-smash lasts forever or anything like that...

Puff at least has more options when it comes to recovering. Sure, she's limited to her jumps, but that doesn't mean that she has less options. She can recover high, low, and can even stay still and drop on the spot. Then again, against Pikachu, they are all dead, but I would say of the three you mentioned, puff stands the best chance of survival.

If you jump away and back to the edge in the middle of a Thunder and send Jigglypuff back away from the edge, it can eat up some of the remaining jumps. It also can help if Jigglypuff is up high and trying to get past you (which is common, being a floaty). In close combat, I would use Bair the most.

I try to recover high for this exact reason. Against noobs, or people whom I think I can trick, I purposefully recover high, close enough to the top such that a Thunder will hit me. Just as I'm about to pass above Pikachu, I stop my forward momentum and fast fall. The Pika player uses thunder, expecting an easy kill. Instead, he gets major attack stun, giving me a free Dair. Against a Pikachu, Dair = loss of stock.

I'll rephrase what I said:

Against a smart puff, NEVER EVER USE THUNDER TO EDGEGUARD!!! You might as well just jump off the edge to your death... it will have the same effect.

 

[asianaussie]

lol...thunder to edgeguard.

We are talking about 64, right?

I think Pika > Jiggs. He has an advantage. That's all. In terms of priority, speed and escape mechanism (Up-B works wonders against U-Tilt spam), Pika has a distinct advantage. He doesn't have anything ridiculous to hold specifically over her head.

 

[t3h Icy]

Well I don't play Pikachu so sue me. =D

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I edgeguard jiggly with thunder sometimes

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

... DONT F***king DO THAT!!

NEVER EVER.. IDIOT!

LOL

 

[Zen Yore]

rapetent combos with pika on falcon is kinda hard imo
its easier on fox/link or even yoshi
however falcon is pretty awesome to combo on pika, in rapetent or in any situations

fav combo is fthrow at 60% > dash pivot > uair
too good

 

[Deleted member]

rapetent combos with pika on falcon is kinda hard imo
its easier on fox/link or even yoshi
however falcon is pretty awesome to combo on pika, in rapetent or in any situations

fav combo is fthrow at 60% > dash pivot > uair
too good

very easy


mess him up till about 80% or so, more or less

up-tilt, FULL jump b-air falcon off of the green house, land on middle stage, up smash and thunder

 

[Kefit]

Pika can't do much to edge guard Jiggy if she comes in high, and Pika's throws send Jiggy high. Jiggy's dair and death combos **** Pika hard if they hit. Pika has a hard time comboing Jiggy effectively, especially at anything above minimal percents.

This matchup is no worse for Jiggy than Pikachu > Jiggy.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Pikachu can Utilt chain jiggly at like -15%

 

[t3h Icy]

So are we leaning towards Pikachu > Jigglypuff then?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

we are always leaning pikachu > everything ever

 

[Deleted member]

Matchup chart data is supposed to be comprised of statistics based on tournament results of the highest ranking players.

"decent enough" isn't good for discussions like this one.

Honnestly I think smoke2joints should just make his own thread where he writes about a different matchup every so often.

Id subscribe.

I have too many matchups where I don't know who wins for sure, some i think i do (like Yoshi> samus, i don't see why people think its even)


but there are some really obvious ones where people argue for some dum reason, like luigi >/= pika or luigi >/= falcon, makes no sense to me


and for fox's recovery vs pika, depends how high fox is when recovering, if you theorycraft so that fox is always low, then his chances are just a tiny bit better than falcons.

 

[Zen Yore]

we are always leaning pikachu > everything ever

falcon > pikachu > ssb < kirby