The New Match-up Chart

[ballin4life]

still waiting for vids of ness's auto death combos on falcon from the middle of hyrule

ness is probably a below average character for combos/punishment (didn't think too hard about this statement but it wouldn't surprise me at all)

 

[Yobolight]

still waiting for vids of ness's auto death combos on falcon from the middle of hyrule

ness is probably a below average character for combos/punishment (didn't think too hard about this statement but it wouldn't surprise me at all)

I don't have a capture card, but here are a couple I found online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4acf0q2dR_c&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOYRzDdy2z0&feature=plcp

 

[ballin4life]

heh, if you can do those consistently in game you are a golden god

also try starting a little farther to the right kthx


although from that location i think this is pretty consistent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otoCOGe0OA0

(shameless self plug)


anyway i was hoping though for an ingame vid where all the kills are 0-deaths on falcon or DK. i think you'll be hard pressed to find any video with all 0-deaths unless it's falcon dittos on DL. and even for that matchup people overrate the combos in this game

 

[Han Solo]

heh, if you can do those consistently in game you are a golden god

When I first saw the two videos, I was like, "firo does that **** to me all the time." Then I saw the uploader.

 

[clubbadubba]

@yobo, in the first video firo's comment on the upload is "hard to pull off..."

Theoretically everyone will 0-death everyone every time, but that's not practical because its not how it really happens, especially with DI.

 

[kys]

@yobo, in the first video firo's comment on the upload is "hard to pull off..."

Theoretically everyone will 0-death everyone every time, but that's not practical because its not how it really happens, especially with DI.

^. With these matchup charts there's a little bit of theory and a little bit of practicality mixed in.

Yobo have you played online? While personal results in matches shouldn't necessarily dictate how you view a matchup, certain properties and realities become more apparent that help you assert more accurate views.

 

[Yobolight]

Yobo have you played online? While personal results in matches shouldn't necessarily dictate how you view a matchup, certain properties and realities become more apparent that help you assert more accurate views.

While I do not play online I am in a community of players that are highly proficient at this game. Some of us including me have won or placed highly in local tournaments. I know what I am talking about.

anyway i was hoping though for an ingame vid where all the kills are 0-deaths on falcon or DK. i think you'll be hard pressed to find any video with all 0-deaths unless it's falcon dittos on DL. and even for that matchup people overrate the combos in this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_SxBZou4JA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHPQQeLhTR8
There are a ton of combos in these vids if you watch the whole thing.
Again, I am sorry I don't have a capture card cause in a 5 stock game I will probably have at least 1 0HKO, and probably more on dreamland.

 

[ciaza]

my grandpa placed highly in a local tournament.

 

[Yobolight]

my grandpa placed highly in a local tournament.

Ha, good one.

 

[ciaza]

i know i'm hilarious. but nar seriously the problem is that small clusters of friends can be 'inbred' and develop not-so-great tactics. local tourneys might not have the best players. getting online means being able to play the best of the best and gain some serious perspective on a lot of stuff. while i am in no way discrediting you and your ability, you must understand that we have never seen you play. it doesn't help that 99% of newbs come on here claim they are great, then get their *** handed to them online. best advice is to hop online, play some good people and see if your theory matches with practise. otherwise it is going to be hard for anyone to take your claims seriously, in the greatest of respect.

 

[Yobolight]

i know i'm hilarious. but nar seriously the problem is that small clusters of friends can be 'inbred' and develop not-so-great tactics. local tourneys might not have the best players. getting online means being able to play the best of the best and gain some serious perspective on a lot of stuff. while i am in no way discrediting you and your ability, you must understand that we have never seen you play. it doesn't help that 99% of newbs come on here claim they are great, then get their *** handed to them online. best advice is to hop online, play some good people and see if your theory matches with practise. otherwise it is going to be hard for anyone to take your claims seriously, in the greatest of respect.

Ill try to record my play on my iphone and put that on youtube.

 

[TheMagistrate]

While I do not play online I am in a community of players that are highly proficient at this game.

I know what I am talking about.

..here we go again.

 

[Battlecow]

Some of us including me have won or placed highly in local tournaments. I know what I am talking about.

Ahahahahahahaha

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*sniff*

oooooh god

Not trying to say you don't know what you're talking about, because you may, but if everyone who placed highly in a local knew what they were talking about, smash 64 would be a strange, strange game.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

IMO, Ness vs. DK is even or slightly better for DK (barely like 55-45) (>=). Ness has good shield pressure as well which works wonders vs. DK's shield. DK has the range due to b-air and up b.

On another note, I hate the Yoshi vs. Ness matchup. Ness's dair works wonders at pressuring as Yoshi has issues getting up and getting away.

Hard to say. Probably Firo>Peek>Parallax>Frog of what I have played against.

I will not include Simma as Ness is most likely high tier in the Japanese version or the top of Mid (right below Mario or even.) U-air is probably the most broken vertical kill move in the game and Ness benefits greatly from the mostly invincible recovery along with better shield stun. I find DJC shield breaks to be easier as well for some reason (maybe due to the different shield stun [wrong words maybe] in that version.)

 

[kys]

Has Parallax played in the last 5 years?

 

[weedwack]

He plays console, mostly as kirby.

 

[ballin4life]

While I do not play online I am in a community of players that are highly proficient at this game. Some of us including me have won or placed highly in local tournaments. I know what I am talking about.

Remember, we get people who come on here every other week claiming to be really good. I bring this up just to point out that "I'm actually really good" is not an incredibly convincing argument given its history on these boards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_SxBZou4JA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHPQQeLhTR8
There are a ton of combos in these vids if you watch the whole thing.
Again, I am sorry I don't have a capture card cause in a 5 stock game I will probably have at least 1 0HKO, and probably more on dreamland.

Let me clarify. I am not saying that Ness cannot combo at all, just that you overrate his combo ability (especially on Hyrule). Linking to a Ness combo video is not going to change my mind on this - heck I have a Ness combo video of my own! Also I'm sure Firo had tons of awesome combos against MeowMeow (sorry, don't want to watch a 30min video right now) but I doubt he got a kill every time he got in. That's all I'm saying.

anyway I see you have downgraded your stance from "once Ness gets in its over" to "i'll get at least 1 zero to death out of 5 stocks". pretty big difference there.

 

[Yobolight]

Let me clarify. I am not saying that Ness cannot combo at all, just that you overrate his combo ability (especially on Hyrule). Linking to a Ness combo video is not going to change my mind on this - heck I have a Ness combo video of my own! Also I'm sure Firo had tons of awesome combos against MeowMeow (sorry, don't want to watch a 30min video right now) but I doubt he got a kill every time he got in. That's all I'm saying.

I watched your Ness, and though technically sufficient it seems like you have no idea what your supposed to do in terms of spacing and mindgames. Maybe if you knew more about Ness than me, I would admit that Ness is the worst character.

I downgraded my statement because it isn't always feasible to have a near zero damage opponent. Most Character's fall out of Ness's combo range pretty quickly.

 

[ballin4life]

thanks for the criticism i guess. surprised you'd even call my ness technically sufficient

a few notes:

1) my most recent ness vid as far as i can tell is from january 2011 ... that's a long time ago. i play more ness now cuz ness is fun. i mean, in that vid i'm still using the yellow ness which has since been proven inferior to the baller green/orange ness. that's how you know it's old.

2) I once zero-deathed isai's fox with ness. from the middle of hyrule too.

3) I have horrible spacing and mindgames with every character except maybe fox/falcon (just mediocre with them)

 

[ciaza]

Maybe if you knew more about Ness than me, I would admit that Ness is the worst character.

prove this dude, ****. right now to us you're some guy who joined a couple of months ago with 25 posts coming in telling us how to play this game, with nothing to show for yourself except that you've 'placed highly in a few local tournaments'.

you're coming off as incredibly arrogant right now please realise this.

 

[asianaussie]

so if i play link and run away while hitting myself with a lot of bombs to get myself to 40%, im out of ness' combo range? awesomeeee

the best ness spacing AND mindgame in one is to pretend you're going to PK thunder charge yourself at them from a standing position, but then when they run in BAM hit them with the thunderball and hopefully they'll roll towards you and you get a free grab

i think i got this on robsta or dongle once

 

[mikeduncan23]

Yobo where in the US do you guys play?

 

[Frogles]

Hard to say. Probably Firo>Peek>Parallax>Frog of what I have played against.

the levels of sheer disrespect in this post make me want to crush a scouter in my bare hand.

Maybe if you knew more about Ness than me, I would admit that Ness is the worst character.

i dont think anybody is seriously arguing that ness is the worst. his 0-death options are just limited on a stage like hyrule because of his crappy mobility. he's a horizontal comboer with bad horizontal movement so his combos are more easily ****ed up by di than other chars.

not like it matters anyway because anybody whos ANYBODY stopped playing on hyrule years ago.

i mean, in that vid i'm still using the yellow ness which has since been proven inferior to the baller green/orange ness.

ive just recently discovered how swagadelic green/orange ness really is.

also is the chart even being updated anymore? because this is about to be the fourth or fifth time i bring up kirby>>ness. i don't recall anyone disagreeing in the past but the chart was never updated.

 

[Yobolight]

Yobo where in the US do you guys play?

In the summer, Houston. Right Now I am studying in upstate NY. Good smashers in both places now.

so if i play link and run away while hitting myself with a lot of bombs to get myself to 40%, im out of ness' combo range? awesomeeee

I don't know if you are serious, but Ill bite anyway. I don't think Link building up damage is the best thing he can do because his recovery range is piddling. If I actually saw someone doing this I think my ability to combo them might go down, but if they mess up they would lose big. Plus, throwing bombs at oneself is like giving the opponent free opportunities to get in.

 

[TheMagistrate]

the levels of sheer disrespect in this post make me want to crush a scouter in my bare hand.

ive just recently discovered how swagadelic green/orange ness really is.

.

Both statements are so very true. As you know, Green Ness is too strong.

prove this dude, ****. right now to us you're some guy who joined a couple of months ago with 25 posts coming in telling us how to play this game, with nothing to show for yourself except that you've 'placed highly in a few local tournaments'.

you're coming off as incredibly arrogant right now please realise this.

just another kid we'll see get 5 stocked on Kaillera.

I watched your Ness, and though technically sufficient it seems like you have no idea what your supposed to do in terms of spacing and mindgames. Maybe if you knew more about Ness than me, I would admit that Ness is the worst character.

I downgraded my statement because it isn't always feasible to have a near zero damage opponent. Most Character's fall out of Ness's combo range pretty quickly.

It sounds more to me like you are the one who knows little about Ness. Youre just simply regurgitating common knowledge as if you know it and practice it. Have you yet to play on Kaillera?

 

[tacos]

In the summer, Houston.

huh. looks like i need to drive up the state and play u

wut

 

[clubbadubba]

Yobo have you played anyone we might know?

 

[Yobolight]

Yobo have you played anyone we might know?

I do not know, have you played this guy?

http://www.smashboards.com/member.php?u=215091

If so, yes
if not, no

 

[SheerMadness]

Yobo I'd dominate you.

Also it's kinda funny you linked us to 2 videos made by people we've been playing with online for YEARS. But yet you still think you know more about Ness than us, lol.

 

[Yobolight]

Yobo I'd dominate you.

Maybe, but even if you could beat me I am not challenging anyone's personal skill.

I was just questioning the match-up chart's Ness matchups as they relate to the current situation and I think they should be Kirby >>, Falcon =, DK =, and Jiggly >.

I stand by my belief on those match ups. All four of which are conversations I am willing to have.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

the levels of sheer disrespect in this post make me want to crush a scouter in my bare hand.

I do not know anything it seems

Spoiler

Random note:

Spoiler

Post 3535

Spoiler

Dubz

 

[asianaussie]

i wasn't even slightly serious about that link bit

your major point in the dk-ness matchup is 'djc momentum is hard to predict', which is fundamentally incorrect, especially at a competitive level where everyone is expected to know of ness's movement options

you didn't address the yoshi-ness comparison in this post: long story short, unless you can show me ness has significant advantages over yoshi in the falcon matchup, im not shifting from falcon > ness

 

[SheerMadness]

Nothing personal dude I just like to call out the new guys who think they're hot stuff. It keeps it entertaining since we get so many of them.

And even though Frogles looks like Dom from p90x, who I currently hate because I'm doing p90x and he's in the hardest workout (plyometrics) vid..

He's the best Ness main online.

 

[Battlecow]

but is he really a NESS MAIN?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Which is why I don't include the top players in my player character tier list (outside of their real mail like Isai's Pikachu and Boom's Falcon.) It makes those lists repetitive

 

[SheerMadness]

Definitely a Ness main.

Unless he pwns you with all his other chars too easily. Then I guess you'd never notice him being a Ness main, as he has little incentive to play Ness.

 

[ballin4life]

Both statements are so very true. As you know, Green Ness is too strong.



just another kid we'll see get 5 stocked on Kaillera.



It sounds more to me like you are the one who knows little about Ness. Youre just simply regurgitating common knowledge as if you know it and practice it. Have you yet to play on Kaillera?

interesting post / sig combo

 

[TheMagistrate]

interesting post / sig combo

the best sig

 

[The Star King]

I've been meaning to make a long post about something for like a week and haven't got around to it, so I'll just throw it out there and not back it up :

aa, your Yoshi-Ness comparison is dumb and you should feel bad

 

[asianaussie]

yeah i feel pretty terrible about life in general atm

doesn't mean ness = falcon tho