The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[_the_sandman_]

Actually Squirtle's moveset is different then what you just said right there Circus....


But anywho, you do make a point. Actually this is a point I have made several times myself, so I guess its something I ought to explain. If I explain it a bit more then people will realize I'm not that ignorant as they may believe.

The game isn't out, so we really don't know what to expect. I honestly think that Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo might be the only playable pokemon in the game. And Sakurai might think that 3 is enough, or 4, or 5. The thing is we don't know! I made this thread so people can learn that it isn't just the current popularity on these boards that matter. I wanted to help a few people learn that you can't just look at someone signature, then copy and paste it and pretend you thought of the idea first.

Brawl is a very big deal people. We've been stuck with the same game for 6 years! I think people should be hoping for the best characters possible! Back at college I asked people who they wanted for Brawl, many of them said Lucario. I asked who Lucario was, but they actually didn't know. I don't make these things up people, there are actually a ton of smashers out there that want Lucario just because forums say so! Please, fight for characters like Ridley or King Dedede! They have been very important characters to several franchises but more and more people are ignoring them!

Please think about who you are wishing for! I know boards can't do much, but seriously people, some of these ideas are terrible! If some kids had it their way, they would have Waluigi, Shadow, Black Knight, WW Link, Paper Mario, and Wolf! Everytime I argue with someone about these "unworthy" characters they act as if they're completely brainwashed!

"Shadow should be in Brawl because he can be just like Sonic but better"
"Waluigi should be in because he's Wario's partner!" (Even though they've never been in a game together)
"WW Link isn't a clone of Link! He looks different!"
"Wolf isn't a clone of Fox! He has team Starwolf!"

Oh, and I bet some people would be really weirded out when they hear this one...
"This game's winner is.... Black Knight!" -it really doesn't have that good of a ring to it, you see?

I mean, Brawl is most likely the best game I'll ever play. I really don't want to see any characters like the ones I mentioned above. Why were they even popular in the first place? How is Skull Kid still wanted for Brawl? Its fads people, and a lot of you are being sucked into it! This post will eventually be lost in the hundreds of posts this thread has created, but I feel like I should mention a thing or two about Brawl. I really don't want to see another mistake like Pichu, ok? And I felt disappointed when I first saw Marth. Though I got over him, but I'm still ticked off about Roy. Roy DID NOT deserve to be in Brawl, Marth at least has seniority, Roy wasn't even in a game at the time.

I'm just tired of listening to people on these boards, or in person, about bad characters. Japanese characters like Starfy that I've never even heard about, or dumb ideas like Daisy. You want to see my wish list? Well here it is! I starred the ones I want most.

*King Dedede
*Ray
*Ridley

Sonic
Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
Paula (Earthbound)
Slippy (Starfox)
Titania (Fire Emblem)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Andy (Advanced Wars)
Balloon Fighter
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

I know these three won't make it, but I'll list them anyways
Banjo-Kazooie
Bomberman
Sparkster (Rocket Knight Adventure)

Well theres the list, or at least what I can think off the top of my head. Its all my opinion, so make fun of it or agree with it. If you've been reading my posts the past few days you'll know why I picked these characters. Some characters like Pico, Diddy, and Mach Rider I feel indifferent about them. I could care less if they appeared or not. Oh wait, I forgot one!

Squirtle (Pokemon)



See you guys tomorrow....

 

[the grim lizard]

I had to do it...

sandman, you ruined it...

 

[Stryks]

Omg no wolf or WW link?...
im so quoting and answering all of that tomorrow...

 

[Circus]

I had to do it...

sandman, you ruined it...

At least you tried. It almost worked. AND IF IANKOBE POSTS RIGHT NOW *wink wink* it'll still work.

@Sandman

THAT. . . is actually not a bad point. Admittedly, I may even be one of the people you're talking about. Lucario certainly isn't my favorite pokemon of all time. I mostly support him because of all the pokemon that seem to have become the front runners (Deoxy before he was pokeball'd, Blaziken, Gardevoir, etc), Lucario was the only one that I took a shine to. There are, actually, even other 4th gen pokemon that I like more than Lucario.

BUT (just to be futher argumentative), doesn't Lucario's cult following still intrigue you? Sure, some people have been brainwashed (maybe even I have), but, they got brainwashed by someone. Lucario surely must've had a pretty large fanbase regardless, otherewise, why would he have been the one that people cling to? Something about him, in general, does draw people to him without outside influence. But I'm sure forums do give people nudges in one direction or another.

I don't know, I feel like I'm talking in circles. Good post though, sandman.

EDIT: Never mind, now Stryks ruined it. We can't get this right.

 

[the grim lizard]

Omg no wolf or WW link?...
im so quoting and answering all of that tomorrow...

wolf link ain't happenin'...ww link I could see, or some other form of young link, seeing as how y. link has been in 3 or 4 times as many games as adult link.

 

[iankobe]

Actually Squirtle's moveset is different then what you just said right there Circus....


But anywho, you do make a point. Actually this is a point I have made several times myself, so I guess its something I ought to explain. If I explain it a bit more then people will realize I'm not that ignorant as they may believe.

The game isn't out, so we really don't know what to expect. I honestly think that Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo might be the only playable pokemon in the game. And Sakurai might think that 3 is enough, or 4, or 5. The thing is we don't know! I made this thread so people can learn that it isn't just the current popularity on these boards that matter. I wanted to help a few people learn that you can't just look at someone signature, then copy and paste it and pretend you thought of the idea first.

Brawl is a very big deal people. We've been stuck with the same game for 6 years! I think people should be hoping for the best characters possible! Back at college I asked people who they wanted for Brawl, many of them said Lucario. I asked who Lucario was, but they actually didn't know. I don't make these things up people, there are actually a ton of smashers out there that want Lucario just because forums say so! Please, fight for characters like Ridley or King Dedede! They have been very important characters to several franchises but more and more people are ignoring them!

Please think about who you are wishing for! I know boards can't do much, but seriously people, some of these ideas are terrible! If some kids had it their way, they would have Waluigi, Shadow, Black Knight, WW Link, Paper Mario, and Wolf! Everytime I argue with someone about these "unworthy" characters they act as if they're completely brainwashed!

"Shadow should be in Brawl because he can be just like Sonic but better"
"Waluigi should be in because he's Wario's partner!" (Even though they've never been in a game together)
"WW Link isn't a clone of Link! He looks different!"
"Wolf isn't a clone of Fox! He has team Starwolf!"

Oh, and I bet some people would be really weirded out when they hear this one...
"This game's winner is.... Black Knight!" -it really doesn't have that good of a ring to it, you see?

I mean, Brawl is most likely the best game I'll ever play. I really don't want to see any characters like the ones I mentioned above. Why were they even popular in the first place? How is Skull Kid still wanted for Brawl? Its fads people, and a lot of you are being sucked into it! This post will eventually be lost in the hundreds of posts this thread has created, but I feel like I should mention a thing or two about Brawl. I really don't want to see another mistake like Pichu, ok? And I felt disappointed when I first saw Marth. Though I got over him, but I'm still ticked off about Roy. Roy DID NOT deserve to be in Brawl, Marth at least has seniority, Roy wasn't even in a game at the time.

I'm just tired of listening to people on these boards, or in person, about bad characters. Japanese characters like Starfy that I've never even heard about, or dumb ideas like Daisy. You want to see my wish list? Well here it is! I starred the ones I want most.

*King Dedede
*Ray
*Ridley

Sonic
Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
Paula (Earthbound)
Slippy (Starfox)
Titania (Fire Emblem)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Andy (Advanced Wars)
Balloon Fighter
Lip (Panel de Pon)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)

I know these three won't make it, but I'll list them anyways
Banjo-Kazooie
Bomberman
Sparkster (Rocket Knight Adventure)

Well theres the list, or at least what I can think off the top of my head. Its all my opinion, so make fun of it or agree with it. If you've been reading my posts the past few days you'll know why I picked these characters. Some characters like Pico, Diddy, and Mach Rider I feel indifferent about them. I could care less if they appeared or not. Oh wait, I forgot one!

Squirtle (Pokemon)



See you guys tomorrow....

You sort of quit on debating with us... But I forgive you. I understand why you make this thread up and I know what you're thinking.

Here's the thing. There're people that really think that Lucario should fit in the game. Just as how you think Paula should be in the game, we respect each one another's opinion.

You're right about the game not being out yet. That's why we have boards where we can discuss our own opinions and thoughts. But the point of you being against Lucario isn't fair to the people that loves Lucario. (people that actually KNOWS who he is. LOL)

I guess this is the end of the debate.

*winks at Mickey and Goofy.

 

[Circus]

Mickey. . . Goofy. . . Donald.

HOLY LIGHTLY SEASONED CRUTONS, WE GOT IT.

So this isn't spam: Uh, Lucario for Brawl, still.

 

[iankobe]

Disney for brawl. LMAO jk.

Wow, I actually typed a lot while replying Sandman...

Lucario ftw.

 

[Stryks]

@: lizard

he n I ment wolf from SF, not wolf LINK...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Wolf from Starfox. Not Wolf Link.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinions, I guess my list kind of proves thats. I mean I have a friend who wants Krystal and Megaman in but I'm not that excited about them.

Well I guess this whole Lucario incident kind of proves that actually. Everyone has their opinions and we won't know the answers until Brawl comes out. I've said some things, you guys said some things. But what ever the case, I think we're all going to enjoy Brawl.

I think I'm going to appear on this thread less and less, I'm getting tired of arguing.

Actually why don't we just let this thread die. It isn't right for us Smashers to fight so much. We should be discussing other Smash issues like why Pit is so cool or how exciting the new levels are. Brawl is going to be great, I think we should look into it as positively as possible.

Its all up to Sakurai now...

 

[1337marth]

Disney for brawl. LMAO jk.

Wow, I actually typed a lot while replying Sandman...

Lucario ftw.

XD, go Disney, and yes you did.

 

[TheZizz]

I think the problem that pokemon in general have, besides the fact that there are just so many of them, is that they are really more species than specific characters. Kind of like Koopa Troopa in the original Mario Kart.

Maybe they should have given the Lucario in the movie a specific name, instead of "Lucario."

Although I would say that Pikachu and Mewtwo are valid exceptions to this. (Jigglypuff is almost certainly not, but I just want him to stay hehe.)

And personally, Lucario's design just strikes me as uninspired...

 

[Legolastom]

It isn't right for us Smashers to fight so much.

XD Thats ironic XD

But im gonna try and stop coming here less and less... its bad for my blood pressure... and all we do is go round and round in circles...

 

[PitIcarus]

I think the problem that pokemon in general have, besides the fact that there are just so many of them, is that they are really more species than specific characters. Kind of like Koopa Troopa in the original Mario Kart.

Maybe they should have given the Lucario in the movie a specific name, instead of "Lucario."

Although I would say that Pikachu and Mewtwo are valid exceptions to this. (Jigglypuff is almost certainly not, but I just want him to stay hehe.)

And personally, Lucario's design just strikes me as uninspired...

No, No, No. No. No, and No.

Thank you.

 

[sheik fanatic]

i agree about squirtle joining but lucario totally rocks and he's alot like mewtwo who was in last time

 

[TheZizz]

No, No, No. No. No, and No.

Thank you.

Do you know what Pokemon is?

 

[Edgegame]

Im all for squirtle. I dont even know what Lucario does. Havent really played the latest game. lol.

 

[Legolastom]

Its always the people who haven't played the latest games that dont want Lucario in... hmmm... i wonder why that is.

 

[PitIcarus]

Do you know what Pokemon is?

Clearly moreso than you.

 

[Sssurivad]

I dont even know who Lucario is, and I love Pokemon (minus Diamond and Pearl). So if a huge Pokemon fan who just hasn't got the most recent game hasn't heard of this, I don't think he's big enough to be in Brawl.

 

[Zook]

If they do add in a pokemon for the 4th gen, I can assure you it'll be Lucario.

 

[kaid]

I dont even know who Lucario is, and I love Pokemon (minus Diamond and Pearl). So if a huge Pokemon fan who just hasn't got the most recent game hasn't heard of this, I don't think he's big enough to be in Brawl.

If you havn't gotten the 4th gen, you arn't the "huge pokemon fan" you claim to be. You may have been in the past, but unless the game is still sold out in your area, only your own apathy is keeping you from picking it up.

 

[Black/Light]

If you havn't gotten the 4th gen, you arn't the "huge pokemon fan" you claim to be. You may have been in the past, but unless the game is still sold out in your area, only your own apathy is keeping you from picking it up.

I think that what he is saying is more like. . .
"I may not have the game but if Lucario is soo huge than why don't I know him? Why do I HAVE to have the game to see him?"
(For example, I have never played a SF game with Wolf in it but I did know about him long before Brawl came up)

And he could very well be a huge pokemon fan. A pokey fan-girl I know wants DP but has not a DS to play it with. And she IS MUCH more into pokemon than I. . . we both know how much I know about Pokemon so thats saying alot.

 

[kaid]

I think that what he is saying is more like. . .
"I may not have the game but if Lucario is soo huge than why don't I know him? Why do I HAVE to have the game to see him?"
(For example, I have never played a SF game with Wolf in it but I did know about him long before Brawl came up)

And he could very well be a huge pokemon fan. A pokey fan-girl I know wants DP but has not a DS to play it with. And she IS MUCH more into pokemon than I. . . we both know how much I know about Pokemon so thats saying alot.

That gets into the whole "been in existance for 10 years" issue. Wolf was only a miniboss in Starfox 64, but he grew with time.

 

[Black/Light]

That gets into the whole "been in existance for 10 years" issue. Wolf was only a miniboss in Starfox 64, but he grew with time.

Which one are you refering o thats been out for only 10 years? SF or Pokemon?
(I know pokemon has but IDK much about SF)

 

[kaid]

Wolf has been a character for about 10 years. (would have been longer, if SF2 came out for the SNES)

Lucario first appeared in PMD, as a final secret, and is in the manual for D/P

 

[ilabb]

I'm not going to read 32 pages of this mind dump, but here's food for thought.

I had no idea what Fire Emblem even was before Smash, nor did any of my ring of friends. Does that mean that Marth and Roy were unworthy? Of course not. I still have no idea who Ike is, and he's in. Sakurai doesn't have a telepathic link to every fan's brain stem, so he isn't going to go for the most universally understood character. He's going to go for whoever is cool enough. Although this is all irrelevent because Lucario IS popular.

Also, some dessert for thought: ROY'S GAME WASN'T OUT WHEN MELEE WAS RELEASED. They picked such a new character that his game hasn't even released yet! Now if that's a testiment to Sakurai not caring about the age of a franchise, nothing is. Diamond and Pearl are fair game, especially since they've been out for almost a year in Japan (spoiler warning: that's where Sakurai is making the game :D).

 

[Black/Light]

Wolf has been a character for about 10 years. (would have been longer, if SF2 came out for the SNES)

Lucario first appeared in PMD, as a final secret, and is in the manual for D/P

So thats what makes him huge enuff for people to know him w/o playing the latest pokemon games?

From the looks of it alot of people feel that the most known and popular pokemon to the reg people should be picked over the few fan favs of smash + pokey players. . . and for all we know that may just be what happens.

To the above person- Roy and Marth almost didn't make it into our US game because FE was never out here but was HUGE in Japan (which is why you most likely never knew about it).

 

[Sssurivad]

If you havn't gotten the 4th gen, you arn't the "huge pokemon fan" you claim to be. You may have been in the past, but unless the game is still sold out in your area, only your own apathy is keeping you from picking it up.

BL basically summed up what I would have said to this. If you have to own the game to know the character, then he's not nearly as huge as you say he is. You can ask anyone who Pikachu is and you can safely assume they know who he is, but I doubt that everyone will have owned a Pokemon game. Even adults would know Pikachu.

And perhaps you missed the "I think" part of my post. I said I think he shouldn't be in Brawl. Did I say he shouldn't be in Brawl? No, I just said that in my eyes he shouldn't be.

 

[IcarusKid]

Hmm I agree with Eternal on some parts, but Lucario does have a good chance of replaceing Mewtwo or a clone character such as young Link or Pichu.

 

[Stryks]

Wolf has equal about the sime time since his 1st apeparance as pokemons debut, so if sandman doesnt like wolf, hes just playing favorites by wanting squirtle... who DIDNT play SF64?

On topic, sandman doesnt make sense, he only wants characters he can relate too and forget characters that are new...

were BOUND to get an AC character, and AC is new, so dont think they aint gonna add new characters...

Now not EVERYONE played TP, so why dont we just add OoT characters? yeah go saria for brawl!
some sane guy: dude saria aint important, Midna has a batter shot for being part of TP and having a bigger role
a version of sandman: NO NO IM NOT LISTENING!! lets only add characters from OoT, cause cmon not everyone has heard of midna! shes only popular on these boards and shouldnt be added, navy is a better choice cause everyone knows her!

yeah, now replace navi/saria with squirtle or any crappy 1st gen pkmn, and midna with lucario, and u got sandman...

 

[kaid]

The people who want pokemon who have "always been there" and have become icons of a fad long since passed... already have at least 2, possibly 3 pokemon to fulfill their wish.

But Pokemon is no longer a fad. it's moved on to become a staple of Nintendo's lineup, and the 4th gen is the latest installation, much as Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass are the latest Zelda games. You may not be a fan of D/P, just as you may think OoT is the greatest game of all time, but the updates already shown indicate that, at least in LoZ's case Sakurai is being heavily influenced by recent releases.

 

[Circus]

Dude.

Sandman just kind of owned all of us. Sort of. o_O

 

[PyrasTerran]

LMFAO.

Way to go, Sandman. You kicked our ***** proper. I admit defeat.

 

[Iggy K]

... Hey Sandman, who else do you think will be in the Game?

 

[Private Zulen]

Sandman, you amaze me. I mean... wow, I'm amazed at that foresight.

I did not see this twist coming!!

 

[PyrasTerran]

Don't give him THAT much credit.. I didn't think he forsaw Squirtle sharing the spotlight with 2 other starters.

But you know, that completely erases the dilemma of "which starter is better" which prevented a starter from being playable. Hah.

 

[Mini Mic]

owned ****ing owned all you nay sayers!!!11

 

[Circus]

Don't give him THAT much credit.. I didn't think he forsaw Squirtle sharing the spotlight with 2 other starters.

But you know, that completely erases the dilemma of "which starter is better" which prevented a starter from being playable. Hah.

Yeah. I was so confident in those points. I thought there would be NO way to get a starter in without the other two—and look, they didn't. They found a way around it. It's kind of nifty.

And, of all the forms Squirtle could have been in, he's actually still Squirtle. It's just crazy. My mouth is still hanging open.

 

[CasMat]

Just..... wow, you must feel pretty awesome right now.