The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[Lupo Aro]

Forget you guys I say keep Lucario and kill Pichu.

Fixed. (10charlimitahhh)

 

[Caael]

You forgot to add in the taunt that squirtle takes out his sunglasses. Anybody else remember the squirtle squad?

You have some good views, and they all make sense, and you've swayed me a bit, but i'm still neutral about pokemon. I dont care who makes it in ( as long as it's not Bidoof. My god, if he's in, I will stab Sakurai in the face), but you have some clever points.

As for the originality of him, they included a totally normal looking character ( Fox) and made him into something entirely different. If you'd played star wing, or Lylat Wars, you would think that he's a pilot, he should have piloty moves. Just because Lucario is a fighting pokemon, doesn't mean he's going to be totally focused around fighting moves.

 

[_the_sandman_]

I still say Squirtle, Poliwhirl, or Treecko.

I still find it amusing that there are still people on these boards that do not know who Lucario is. Shouldn't that be more than enough proof that there are a lot of people out there in the gaming world that do not know who Lucario is? I'm not kidding when I say, "None of my friends know who he is".

And to the people that say Squirtle can't be in because of Blastoise.... Sakurai can remove and add anyone he pleases.

One more thing, wasn't Squirtle in a Pokemon Ranger game? Not to mention he appeared in 300+ episodes of the Pokemon show! And of course he was the original starter. Yeah... clearly he didn't contribute ANYTHING to the Pokemon franchise!

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea and the thing is he isn't just a fighting type... He uses Aura (Which is like Pokemon's force) and he is a steel type as well!

 

[Caael]

One more thing, wasn't Squirtle in a Pokemon Ranger game? Not to mention he appeared in 300+ episodes of the Pokemon show! And of course he was the original starter. Yeah... clearly he didn't contribute ANYTHING to the Pokemon franchise!

He was in pretty much all of the sub-games ( Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, Colliseum)

Omg.

SQUIRTLE FOR BRAWL!

 

[Black/Light]

Yhea and the thing is he isn't just a fighting type... He uses Aura (Which is like Pokemon's force) and he is a steel type as well!

Aura ball is a fighting type move. And Steel attacks are very much 2nd to his fighting.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Every Smash character can use "fighting" attacks. Why not have someone that is a bit more unique than punches and kicks?

 

[Keitaro]

Has anyone noticed 20-25 year olds playing this game now? I'm not trying to pick on them for being 20 and playing Pokemon, because I'm 20 and I REALLY want to buy the game. Its just something I noticed.

You must live in a city with all children cause I know a ****load of people over 20 that play this game. Hello, look at the people's ages with trainers cards on this website! You don't know what your talking about. Why make an Anti-Lucario thread?! Wtf!? Thats just childish/low/gay.

 

[Lupo Aro]

Every Smash character can use "fighting" attacks. Why not have someone that is a bit more unique than punches and kicks?

Because Brawl is a FIGHTING game.

 

[Legolastom]

Every Smash character can use "fighting" attacks. Why not have someone that is a bit more unique than punches and kicks?

Jesus.... How many times have we established that he would have more than just "Punches and kicks"? even if he does we already talked about all the MANY different fighting styles! that he could use.

And Black/Light it is a fighting move but its a giant beam of energy!

 

[the grim lizard]

Yhea and the thing is he isn't just a fighting type... He uses Aura (Which is like Pokemon's force) and he is a steel type as well!

I'm sorry, people keep saying this, but...."steel type"? That has got to be the lamest type ever. "Yeah! Steel...type." How is "steel" even a "type"?? What's he going to do, throw steel girders at me??

 

[Legolastom]

"Jesus a water type? what is he gonna do pee on me?"

See how stupid those statements are Grim?

 

[the grim lizard]

"Jesus a water type? what is he gonna do pee on me?"

See how stupid those statements are Grim?

pee =/= water -_-

No, they aren't stupid. And you proved it by not even explaining "steel." Fire, Water, Wind, Earth...those are all classic elements. Steel is just a modern element. We may as well have "Oxygen type" and "Potassium type" and "Gold type" or maybe we could have some variations like "Stainless-Steel type" or "Polycarobonate type." You see how stupid those statements are, Legalos?

 

[Black/Light]

And Black/Light it is a fighting move but its a giant beam of energy!

OMGZ!?!?! Thats like never been in Smash before bro!
Mew2/ Samus/ Zelda/ Ness never use enegry ball. . .
and it's a BALL, not a beam (It's in the name. . .).

And water=/=pee

 

[inside]

^I can smell the sarcasm.

I'm anti Lucario, and anti Squirtle at the same time?

 

[PitIcarus]

pee =/= water -_-

No, they aren't stupid. And you proved it by not even explaining "steel." Fire, Water, Wind, Earth...those are all classic elements. Steel is just a modern element. We may as well have "Oxygen type" and "Potassium type" and "Gold type" or maybe we could have some variations like "Stainless-Steel type" or "Polycarobonate type." You see how stupid those statements are, Legalos?

It's pokemon....

and I have no idea what you are getting at because "types" in pokemon aren't direct correlation to elements.

Flying, Dragon, Dark, Ghost, Normal, Grass, Fighting.

 

[the grim lizard]

I have no idea what you are getting at

Somehow, I don't find that surprising.

"types" in pokemon aren't direct correlation to elements.

Flying, Dragon, Dark, Ghost, Normal, Grass, Fighting.

...steel...
"Which one of these is not like the other? Which one of these just doesn't belong?"

I wasn't implying that Pokemon are exclusively classical elements, just that they tend to be more generalized. "Steel" seems very specific and...not really an ability/type...as opposed to ground or water or even flying or fighting...

 

[Eight Sage]

We should make the "anti Blaziken" thread.... anyone?

 

[PrinnyFlute]

As for the originality of him, they included a totally normal looking character ( Fox) and made him into something entirely different. If you'd played star wing, or Lylat Wars, you would think that he's a pilot, he should have piloty moves. Just because Lucario is a fighting pokemon, doesn't mean he's going to be totally focused around fighting moves.

Thank you, voice of reason, for showing that even if you're indifferent about Lucario, you don't have to be a halfwit about it.

I still find it amusing that there are still people on these boards that do not know who Lucario is. Shouldn't that be more than enough proof that there are a lot of people out there in the gaming world that do not know who Lucario is? I'm not kidding when I say, "None of my friends know who he is".

And to the people that say Squirtle can't be in because of Blastoise.... Sakurai can remove and add anyone he pleases.

One more thing, wasn't Squirtle in a Pokemon Ranger game? Not to mention he appeared in 300+ episodes of the Pokemon show! And of course he was the original starter. Yeah... clearly he didn't contribute ANYTHING to the Pokemon franchise!

Every "point" made here has been addressed about 10 times in this thread. Just leave already.

OMGZ!?!?! Thats like never been in Smash before bro!
Mew2/ Samus/ Zelda/ Ness never use enegry ball. . .
and it's a BALL, not a beam (It's in the name. . .).

Moves being unoriginal: addressed. Like eight times on this page for that matter. But you bring up a cute point. All of those characters DO use 'balls of X' attacks, but look at how very different and interesting Sakurai has managed to make them all.

 

[PitIcarus]

Steel type doesn't refer specifically to attacks. If a pokemon is a steel type then it will have high resistance and defense. Although there is a bunch of steel attacks.

 

[the grim lizard]

Steel type doesn't refer specifically to attacks. If a pokemon is a steel type then it will have high resistance and defense. Although there is a bunch of steel attacks.

I'm sorry, people keep saying this, but...."steel type"? That has got to be the lamest type ever. "Yeah! Steel...type." How is "steel" even a "type"?? What's he going to do, throw steel girders at me??

My question(s) still stand(s)...

 

[Zook]

No, Steel probably shouldn't have been a type, nor Dark, nor Bug, nor Flying, nor Rock, nor... Actually, most of the types could fall under the 4 basic elements. But to make the game more interesting, they added more.

 

[Keitaro]

My question(s) still stand(s)...

I see PitIcarus's point like this.

You can meet a black dude but he can act white, or asian, or be as spanish as hell. Yes, he is black, but he could have none of the qualities of being black besides that. If he joins an African American college group he'll be freely accepted and if he says something he can say a black guy said it cause he is one. It's like a Steel pokemon. You throw fire at it, it gets f-ed up cause it's steel. It can also learn steel moves cause it's steel. It can look like a bird, a plane, even superman, but since it's steel it always has those basic qualities at least.

 

[Black/Light]

Moves being unoriginal: addressed. Like eight times on this page for that matter. But you bring up a cute point. All of those characters DO use 'balls of X' attacks, but look at how very different and interesting Sakurai has managed to make them all.

I was just showing that ball of w/e =/= some new thing to smash.
But, well we are on the subject, lets list how Lucario's balls will have to be different.

(As a projectile. . )
Aim it up or down at different arcs. (Pitt's arrows- Samus's missile- Link's boomerage do this in their own ways. Ness fully controls his.)
Charge up before take off. (Samus-Mew2-Link do that)
Blows up on command (Zelda)
Fully controlable (Ness)
Homes in on enemy (Samus)
(I don't feel like talking about the B moves for Mario/ Fox/ Falco/ Doc/ Lugi)

So it has to either by pass all these or be some unique combu of different parts of these and still be balance.
Could it be done? Yeah. . . but that doesn't stop the fact that it's a ball of w/e and the only thing we know for sure is that it's a ball of w/e so thats all we can call it on.


^^^Dude above me. . . wtf are you talking about? How does a black person "act white" and what is a black person suppose act like? How the hell do you "act" asian? The black guy is black because he carries genes more closely related to Africans and what not. . .

 

[the grim lizard]

I see PitIcarus's point like this.

You can meet a black dude but he can act white, or asian, or be as spanish as hell. Yes, he is black, but he could have none of the qualities of being black besides that. If he joins an African American college group he'll be freely accepted and if he says something he can say a black guy said it cause he is one. It's like a Steel pokemon. You throw fire at it, it gets f-ed up cause it's steel. It can also learn steel moves cause it's steel. It can look like a bird, a plane, even superman, but since it's steel it always has those basic qualities at least.

Wow, you somehow made turned that into a very racist response still without really answering the question.

Also, Dark, Rock, Flying, Bug...they all make some sense. Steel does not. Read what I said before:

We may as well have "Oxygen type" and "Potassium type" and "Gold type" or maybe we could have some variations like "Stainless-Steel type" or "Polycarobonate type."

And:

I'm sorry, people keep saying this, but...."steel type"? That has got to be the lamest type ever. "Yeah! Steel...type." How is "steel" even a "type"?? What's he going to do, throw steel girders at me??

People do a really good job of throwing a bunch of bs around without really answering the question.

 

[PitIcarus]

My question(s) still stand(s)...

So basically you know nothing about steel types in pokemon, or much about pokemon in general...but you decided to debate it anyways?

Most STEEL type attacks involve the hardening of a body part for a strike.

Steel type was a spin-off from Rock types. Hence why there are a lot of Rock/Steel types. Makes perfect sense to me.

Ground isn't vague, but there is also a Grass type. What are you like going to throw pieces of grass at people? Yes that is exactly what that means. Steel type doesn't seem any more generalized then bug type.

 

[the grim lizard]

So basically you know nothing about steel types in pokemon, or much about pokemon in general...but you decided to debate it anyways?

Most STEEL type attacks involve the hardening of a body part for a strike.

Who's debating? I asked a simple question, and people give me nothing but smart alack responses...

No, I don't keep up with the latest Pokemon, but I suppose you do...even though you bash on every other character as "kiddie"?? It's pretty sad that a 21-year-old is still into Pokemon, eh?

Steel just seems like a lame ripoff of Superman or something. OK, I get it...it's defensive. Is that it? That doesn't sound all that "cool" to me...

 

[Circus]

Most STEEL type attacks involve the hardening of a body part for a strike.

Roflcopter.

Oh, that's good stuff. I hope that was intentional.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

I was just showing that ball of w/e =/= some new thing to smash.
But, well we are on the subject, lets list how Lucario's balls will have to be different.

(As a projectile. . )
Aim it up or down at different arcs. (Pitt's arrows- Samus's missile- Link's boomerage do this in their own ways. Ness fully controls his.)
Charge up before take off. (Samus-Mew2-Link do that)
Blows up on command (Zelda)
Fully controlable (Ness)
Homes in on enemy (Samus)
(I don't feel like talking about the B moves for Mario/ Fox/ Falco/ Doc/ Lugi)

So it has to either by pass all these or be some unique combu of different parts of these and still be balance.
Could it be done? Yeah. . . but that doesn't stop the fact that it's a ball of w/e and the only thing we know for sure is that it's a ball of w/e so thats all we can call it on.

Practically every fighting game has balls of w/e. I don't see much reason why he should be kicked out because of this.

Ways this could be differentiated? For looks, first of all, since it's life energy and not lightning/darkness/whatever, it could be reinterpreted as being semi-invisible, more like a warping of the space around it with a slight blue aura. But that's not what we're talking about, huh?

It could be aimable in multiple directions. Not changing direction midflight, but literally could be shot in different directions.
It could charge but have multiple things to do when fully charged. A single press fires a highly power aura sphere: multiple presses fires a number of smaller but still somewhat strong spheres.
It could always be shot slightly angled to the ground, so it can only fly so far when shot on level terrain, but creates a brief shockwave when it contacts the ground.

Or it could just be a non-cancelling, very strong charging move, ala Falcon-Punch, except a projectile. Therefor you have to leave yourself open to do it.

Seems like there's any number of possibilities here.

 

[Dynamism]

Semi on topic: Metwo should have a steel spaceship!! WTF

Seriously though, **** the lucario thing for a sec, what can they do to improve Mewtwo?!

 

[PitIcarus]

Who's debating? I asked a simple question, and people give me nothing but smart alack responses...

No, I don't keep up with the latest Pokemon, but I suppose you do...even though you bash on every other character as "kiddie"?? It's pretty sad that a 21-year-old is still into Pokemon, eh?

Steel just seems like a lame ripoff of Superman or something. OK, I get it...it's defensive. Is that it? That doesn't sound all that "cool" to me...

Actually your asinine response to what Steel was, was far more of a "smart alack" response than what anyone gave you. And I keep up with a lot of things, especially if I am going to discuss it on a forum. And who said I was still into Pokemon? Pokemon came out over a decade ago.

Steel seems like a ripoff of Superman? Wow, is all I'm going to say about that. I guess Dark type is a ripoff of Star Wars?!?!

Glad to see you admit you know little about pokemon anymore yet you are helping to argue points in this thread about a pokemon. Clearly you have the facts to do that properply (sarcasm).

 

[PyrasTerran]

wtf are you talking about? How does a black person "act white" and what is a black person suppose act like? How the hell do you "act" asian? The black guy is black because he carries genes more closely related to Africans and what not. . .

Don't be sly.

What she means is that a black person doesn't have to act the logical(or stereotypical) role of an African or Caribbean or African American, etc.. You can see a black person with completely Asian personality and traits. Like the Chinese Jamaicans(a real big population, actually).

 

[Black/Light]

Practically every fighting game has balls of w/e. I don't see much reason why he should be kicked out because of this.

Ways this could be differentiated? For looks, first of all, since it's life energy and not lightning/darkness/whatever, it could be reinterpreted as being semi-invisible, more like a warping of the space around it with a slight blue aura. But that's not what we're talking about, huh?.

Thats not the point. (I don't really know too many fighting games that have balls of light. . . or GOOD fighting games that use them I should say)

What Im saying is that it aint unique to the game and shouldn't be tossed around like some "OMG OMG! Lucario is sooo unique cause he gotz the wave in him with the arue ball and the blue stuff and what not!" thing.

And I don't care if it's arue and not shadow/ magic or w/e, it's a ball of energy and wouldn't have any different effect other than it's look and animation. We can come up with w/e ways for it to work but that doesn't mean it's unique to smash. . . .only til Sakurai puts him in can we rate how unique it is to the other balls of energy IN smash.

 

[PitIcarus]

Don't be sly.

What she means is that a black person doesn't have to act the logical(or stereotypical) role of an African or Caribbean or African American, etc.. You can see a black person with completely Asian personality and traits. Like the Chinese Jamaicans(a real big population, actually).

Chinese Jamaicans are a real big population?

Are we talking about in a movie or in real life?

 

[Circus]

What Im saying is that it aint unique to the game and shouldn't be tossed around like some "OMG OMG! Lucario is sooo unique cause he gotz the wave in him with the arue ball and the blue stuff and what not!" thing.

The reason it's being mentioned is because people keep throwing around the "he's a fighting type so all he can do is punch and kick" comment. Which isn't true.

And I don't care if it's arue and not shadow/ magic or w/e, it's a ball of energy and wouldn't have any different effect other than it's look and animation. We can come up with w/e ways for it to work but that doesn't mean it's unique to smash. . . .only til Sakurai puts him in can we rate how unique it is to the other balls of energy IN smash.

Well, if you're going to get THAT technical, it's impossible to get unique enough for you. Aside from "punch", "kick" and "launch a projectile", there's not much you can do to make things original aside from change animations and such.

If you want a character that does something ENTIRELY unique, then what exactly would you suggest?

 

[Black/Light]

The reason it's being mentioned is because people keep throwing around the "he's a fighting type so all he can do is punch and kick" comment. Which isn't true.

Yea, he can throw a ball of light too
. . . .Wait.

Well, if you're going to get THAT technical, it's impossible to get unique enough for you. (Actually, no. Im not going to say a ball of light is unique til I see it BE unique compared to the other balls. But if it where something new like Razor Leaf, giga impack, Poisn Jag etc I can completely see that being unique at first sight) Aside from "punch", "kick" and "launch a projectile", there's not much you can do to make things original aside from change animations and such. (Not true. You can change effects (gust, sliver wind could be very unique for example) , make a beam (Ice beam seems good) or a crap load of other attacks in pokemon that dont look like anything in smash)

If you want a character that does something ENTIRELY unique, then what exactly would you suggest?

Just Characters?
Jill Drill/ K-Fox/ Ridley/ Omar/ Lip/ Daisy (IF she uses Strikers moves)/ Lloyd/ Midna can all be VERY unique.

For pokemon only? Theres too many to list that wouldn't have anything in common with the other smashers. Mawile, Buneary, Cubone, Scizors ect are all unique.

 

[Legolastom]

Uh you guys seem to be doing the best arguing for the moment so im just gonna say my idea for the Aura sphere...

It could be semi invisible and could do no damage except just moves characters back a little... (Like the force).

Uh "Hardening parts of the body" XD LMAO!

O yhea and we already went over how the beam can be unique with different effects!

 

[the grim lizard]

Actually your asinine response to what Steel was, was far more of a "smart alack" response than what anyone gave you. And I keep up with a lot of things, especially if I am going to discuss it on a forum. And who said I was still into Pokemon? Pokemon came out over a decade ago.

I actually don't even think it's a big deal. I was just giving you grief because IMO Pokemon are far kiddier than Kirby, Stafy, Olimar or any number other characters that you characterized as such.

And if my posts came off as that, it was only because everyone makes a big deal about of "oh, but he's steel...STEEELL!!!111" I don't see the big deal because it sounds like a pretty dumb type IMO for the reasons I stated before.

Steel seems like a ripoff of Superman? Wow, is all I'm going to say about that. I guess Dark type is a ripoff of Star Wars?!?!

Glad to see you admit you know little about pokemon anymore yet you are helping to argue points in this thread about a pokemon. Clearly you have the facts to do that properply (sarcasm).

-_-

I didn't say I know nothing about Pokemon, I said I haven't kept up with the most recent ones...which just goes along with what sandman and others have been saying all along. So far, all that I've gathered is "steel is defensive" and "there are a lot of steel attacks." Give me something a little more tangible than that. If all it is is basically an extra shield, big whoop.

Also, I hear from some legit Pokefans who play recently that he isn't even that great in the games. If all of you are such experts in how amazing he really is, then please enlighten us that don't know, instead of saying..."What? You don't what steel is? u r a newb har har...."

"properply"? Sorry, but if you're trying to make an insult/sarcasm, you kind of miss the target when you can't spell.

 

[PitIcarus]

Wow I waited that long for that crappy of a response?

Basically you just did what you always do. Made inaccurate quotes to try to defend yourself. And then you claim I can't spell because a word accidentally had an additional letter in it?

Let's grow up a little. Admit you were wrong and move on.

Seriously one of these days we need to sit down together so I can explain to you what the purpose of using " " is.

 

[Circus]

Yea, he can throw a ball of light too
. . . .Wait.


Just Characters?
Jill Drill/ K-Fox/ Ridley/ Omar/ Lip/ Daisy (IF she uses Strikers moves)/ Lloyd/ Midna can all be VERY unique.

For pokemon only? Theres too many to list that wouldn't have anything in common with the other smashers. Mawile, Buneary, Cubone, Scizors ect are all unique.

No matter how you slice it, all a fighter has in his or her arsenal are physical and projectile attacks. PrinnyFlute did a great job of listing ways the AuraSphere could be different in Brawl from things like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball, Zelda's Din's Fire, etc. But you still shot it down because you said it wasn't unique enough. And in that sense, nothing is.

How would Razor Leaf be more unique? Sure, it's a bunch leaves instead of energy or something, but when you break it down, it's just another projectile attack. Same with ice beam, it just might have an after effect. Giga impact? That's just a really big, powerful "tackle", isn't it (I'm basing this on my interpretation of the animation in Pokemon Diamond)?

I feel like I'm kind of going in circles without really expressing my point, but I don't know how to word it better. . . .