The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[Circus]

To be honest with you I have no clue what Munchlax is, so he/she/it is not as popular as you claim. The same goes for Lucario, if there hadn't been all of these topics I would have had no clue who he is.

That doesn't mean anything. I didn't know who Captain Falcon was before Smash, but that doesn't make him unpopular. I just didn't play his game, so I would have no way of knowing who he is. The reason you don't know the newer pokemon is because you just didn't play the newer games.

Not every character needs to be recognizable by everybody. Otherwise, the only character that would be in the game would be Mario.

 

[Lupo Aro]

... u ********?

Heh, so much irony here.

Not every character needs to be recognizable by everybody. Otherwise, the only character that would be in the game would be Mario.

And Pikachu. Remember when Pokemon was freaking HUGE back in the day?

 

[Circus]

And Pikachu. Remember when Pokemon was freaking HUGE back in the day?

Touché. I was a pokémaniac back in early elementary school.

 

[Stryks]

Heh, so much irony here.

Hey im the one making real statements, anyone expecting squirtle is freaking stupid...

 

[Bassoonist]

I'm not expecting Squirtle. >_>

I just want something unique. If Lucario is unique, then he'll work.

 

[Princess Diana]

starters wont be in the game for the same reason why they didn't give Ash one of them at the beginning of the Anime....by doing this they will favor one over the other.

the most famous 4gen pokemon now are Lucario, Munchlax and Mime.Jr .. expect one of them to be in brawl.

Yes, yes!!! Mime jr. ftw!

Mime Jr. would represent the 4th gen more than Lucario cause most of the 4th gen was baby pokemon from previous gens! Also I'd rather see Munchlax in than Lucario cause Munchlax was the first 4th gen pokemon ever revealed!

 

[PrinnyFlute]

1. There's a difference between characters being so similar that they're clones and just being somewhat alike. What I'm talking about, and what everyone else seems to be complaining about, is the similarities between Lucario and Fox. Those two are NOT as similar to eachother as Marth and Roy. If anything it's more like Link and Ike, seeing as they both have somewhat similar physical makeups (height, species, weapons.) By the logic people keep using (Lucario=Fox,) then Ike wouldn't be in the game either, right? He's a sword using human of about the same height, probably about the same speed, right? No, we don't want SUPER similar characters everywhere, but we ARE going to have somewhat similar characters. Multiple sword users, multiple humans. Multiple dog-peoples.

2. We already have pokemon that EVERYONE can recognize off the bat. You first gen kids alread have Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. Give Nintendo a chance now to cater to fans of the new gen with a Pokemon that (IN MY EXPERIENCE. I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HIM AND YOUR FRIENDS DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS, OKAY?) even non-pokefans seem to like for the most part.

Do you really think these demographics who don't even buy pokemon anymore really should be so considered when it comes to which pokemon is repped in Brawl? Most people who never played in the first place or just don't play anymore are in those positions because they don't care about Pokemon that much in the first place.

And yes, it's nice to have characters that appear to use different elements and powers. I won't lie: it would be cool to have a roster that includes leaf-throwers and water-shooters. But as cool as all that is, it can't take a backseat to sheer playability (and popularity.)

Thanks, Circus, for being so right. If we literally want only pokemon everybody can recognize right off the bat, I say we just cut out Pichu's slot altogether and only have Jiggly, Mewtwo, and Mr. Pokemon: Pikachu in Brawl. Because frankly, out of 500! freaking pokemons, it'd be a slap in the face for ongoing, game-buying fans to have 4 or even 5 characters all just from the first year of the game just to make folks who don't even buy the game anymore happy.

If not Lucario, at least Gardevoir or even Blaziken. Or Gallade...how awesome would that be? (I got nothing against Meowth, bless his heart, but I do think we need at least one later gen pokemon in the next game.)

 

[Lupo Aro]

The above post has so many truths to it.

 

[Circus]

1. There's a difference between characters being so similar that they're clones and just being somewhat alike. What I'm talking about, and what everyone else seems to be complaining about, is the similarities between Lucario and Fox. Those two are NOT as similar to eachother as Marth and Roy. If anything it's more like Link and Ike, seeing as they both have somewhat similar physical makeups (height, species, weapons.) By the logic people keep using (Lucario=Fox,) then Ike wouldn't be in the game either, right? He's a sword using human of about the same height, probably about the same speed, right? No, we don't want SUPER similar characters everywhere, but we ARE going to have somewhat similar characters. Multiple sword users, multiple humans. Multiple dog-peoples.

2. We already have pokemon that EVERYONE can recognize off the bat. You first gen kids alread have Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. Give Nintendo a chance now to cater to fans of the new gen with a Pokemon that (IN MY EXPERIENCE. I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE HIM AND YOUR FRIENDS DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS, OKAY?) even non-pokefans seem to like for the most part.

Do you really think these demographics who don't even buy pokemon anymore really should be so considered when it comes to which pokemon is repped in Brawl? Most people who never played in the first place or just don't play anymore are in those positions because they don't care about Pokemon that much in the first place.

And yes, it's nice to have characters that appear to use different elements and powers. I won't lie: it would be cool to have a roster that includes leaf-throwers and water-shooters. But as cool as all that is, it can't take a backseat to sheer playability (and popularity.)

Thanks, Circus, for being so right. If we literally want only pokemon everybody can recognize right off the bat, I say we just cut out Pichu's slot altogether and only have Jiggly, Mewtwo, and Mr. Pokemon: Pikachu in Brawl. Because frankly, out of 500! freaking pokemons, it'd be a slap in the face for ongoing, game-buying fans to have 4 or even 5 characters all just from the first year of the game just to make folks who don't even buy the game anymore happy.

If not Lucario, at least Gardevoir or even Blaziken. Or Gallade...how awesome would that be? (I got nothing against Meowth, bless his heart, but I do think we need at least one later gen pokemon in the next game.)

Your posts make me smile. Too true.

 

[Private Zulen]

The OP, based on his intelligence, is not really expecting Squirtle to be in Brawl. It was more so just an example of a randomly generated recognizable character who is unique and cool (IMO, Squirtle kicks ***).

I think American's just like Lucario because he's Japanese. And I mean, really Japanese. Why not throw on a Hitai Leaf Headband and have him spout Doppelgangers? It's that kind of demographic that appeals to Americans, so don't give me crap about American's liking him for any other reason and expect me to eat it up. Maybe I should show you manga sales of Naruto...?

Either way, like it's been said, Lucario isn't popular. He's popular because he was in a recent game. Okay, I guess? People who think Mewtwo is only in Brawl because he was in a movie, look a bit closer and find out he was a major antagonist in the comics and the series, really the only "evil" Pokemon, had a sequel to that movie, mind you, and should I compare the sales of Pokemon: The First Movie and Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew?

By your logic, Squirtle could very well make it into Brawl. Perhaps I'll even be a bigot and defend my groundless statement by going "Squirtle was in Three Pokemon Movies, also, he's the only Pokemon Ash never gave away (if he didn't by now, anyway)!! What is that telling you? Squirlte's in Brawl, nuff said."

 

[Lupo Aro]

The OP, based on his intelligence, is not really expecting Squirtle to be in Brawl. It was more so just an example of a randomly generated recognizable character who is unique and cool (IMO, Squirtle kicks ***).
Agreed.
I think American's just like Lucario because he's Japanese. And I mean, really Japanese. Why not throw on a Hitai Leaf Headband and have him spout Doppelgangers? It's that kind of demographic that appeals to Americans, so don't give me crap about American's liking him for any other reason and expect me to eat it up. Maybe I should show you manga sales of Naruto...?
Lucario's based off a Jackal/Anubis, not a Tanuki.
Either way, like it's been said, Lucario isn't popular. He's popular because he was in a recent game. Okay, I guess? People who think Mewtwo is only in Brawl because he was in a movie, look a bit closer and find out he was a major antagonist in the comics and the series, really the only "evil" Pokemon, had a sequel to that movie, mind you, and should I compare the sales of Pokemon: The First Movie and Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew?
I don't get the red part. Comparing the sales of the two movies wouldn't work, because Pokemon was a juggernaut of a franchise back when the first movie came out.

Arguments bolded and underlined.

 

[the grim lizard]

In truth, Lucario is the best choice for a 4th gen. rep. But, that says more about the 4th gen. of Pokemon than it says about Lucario...

 

[PyrasTerran]

The same goes for Lucario, if there hadn't been all of these topics I would have had no clue who he is.

That's kinda a moot point. That really just translates into: "Lucario is very popular, and all of these topics are proof of it."

I think American's just like Lucario because he's Japanese. And I mean, really Japanese. Why not throw on a Hitai Leaf Headband and have him spout Doppelgangers? It's that kind of demographic that appeals to Americans, so don't give me crap about American's liking him for any other reason and expect me to eat it up. Maybe I should show you manga sales of Naruto...?

Makes sense. One of the prime reasons why Shiek was so popular, in my opinion.

Either way, like it's been said, Lucario isn't popular. He's popular because he was in a recent game.

Makes no sense. The recentness of a game doesn't determine whether its popular or not. You can't say "God of War's Kratos isn't that popular, it's just the recent games." A character can still be important and popular even if he just appeared a few months ago.

Okay, I guess? People who think Mewtwo is only in Brawl because he was in a movie, look a bit closer and find out he was a major antagonist in the comics and the series, really the only "evil" Pokemon, had a sequel to that movie, mind you, and should I compare the sales of Pokemon: The First Movie and Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew?

Comparing the sales of the first movie, which appeared at the peak of the game's popularity, and the 8th movie in which was a direct-to-DVD affair in the first place, is pretty odd. There's nothing to gain from this kind of comparison, only that "pokemon is not as popular as it used to be".

 

[Legolastom]

Either way, like it's been said, Lucario isn't popular. He's popular because he was in a recent game. Okay, I guess? People who think Mewtwo is only in Brawl because he was in a movie, look a bit closer and find out he was a major antagonist in the comics and the series, really the only "evil" Pokemon, had a sequel to that movie, mind you, and should I compare the sales of Pokemon: The First Movie and Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew?

By your logic, Squirtle could very well make it into Brawl. Perhaps I'll even be a bigot and defend my groundless statement by going "Squirtle was in Three Pokemon Movies, also, he's the only Pokemon Ash never gave away (if he didn't by now, anyway)!! What is that telling you? Squirlte's in Brawl, nuff said."

Is this what it has come to? Anti-Lucario's making stuff up now?

O yhea and http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=2097872

 

[Private Zulen]

Making stuff up? Everything I said was true. You're the one who can't think of any retort, and now you resort insults on "Objection!" because you know that you'll be in for one of the biggest e-***** of your life if you come out directly with your wimpy insults and childish pouting.

 

[PitIcarus]

Is this thread serious? Why would they put Squirtle in the game before someone like Lucario? Squirtle isn't even a prominent pokemon in the Anime let alone the games anymore. Lucario on the other hand was just featured in the 8th movie and is a 4th Generation pokemon. Not to mention it has human-like characteristics has far as fighting goes. Plus he could have some cool attacks with the whole Aura thing.

 

[kaid]

I think they object to the whole "humanlike characteristics" thing. It's too similar to every other character in the game. They want something fresh and new.

 

[PitIcarus]

I think they object to the whole "humanlike characteristics" thing. It's too similar to every other character in the game. They want something fresh and new.

I want a magical unicorn.

See where I'm going with this?

 

[Black/Light]

I think they object to the whole "humanlike characteristics" thing. It's too similar to every other character in the game. They want something fresh and new.

True.

I want a magical unicorn.

See where I'm going with this?

No. . .

 

[PitIcarus]

What people want, and what is likely to happen, are often two different things.

 

[Black/Light]

What people want, and what is likely to happen, are often two different things.

. . . Soo what are you saying?
That Lucario fans may want him but it could very well not happen (I don't think you mean that. . )?

Or that us wanting a completely unique and freash pokemon that isn't like other characters aint likely to happen (Which sounds odd seeing as ever pokemon in the melee (not Pichu) was completely unique in some way compared to all the other characters. Pika- runs on 4 legs, has a unique set of B moves (the only one to B^/Bv like that) and mains in thunder. Jpuff- puts people to sleep and uses a attack that makes her go to sleep to cause massive damage on others. M2- only floating character in smash and also has a host of crazy B moves)?

I don't think it's the "Human like characteristics" that most of the people here diss-like about Lucario but the fact that he has many characteristics of other past smashers (Zelda B+Most of Fox's normal moves+Afew Falcon jabs=OMGz a coo Lucario move-set).
That and the fact that it wouldn't bring the up front uniqueness of just about any random 4th gen pokemon one could reasonalbily pick that works right for smash.


Edit- And to someone in the past few pages. Ash didn't get a RB starter as his starter because Pika is the Pokemon mascot/ the most loved-popular- iconic pokemon to every be made.
Nintendo doesn't even treat the starters = so why is this always some issue with some people?

 

[FrozenRoy]

I haven't read this whole thread, don't have the time(My internet is out on my main computer and I'm doing it on a friend who wants it back soon), but I will now counterpoint your points, TC.

Point 1)

First off, TONS OF PEOPLE PLAY POKEMON OF ALL AGES. There are full grown adults going on Smogon.com and debating D/P pokemon as we speak. They have made Pokemon into a very competitive game for many people to enjoy. and D/P Wifi only made that better, giving them a reason other then battling friends to EV train and breed.

Secondly, Rukario does have importance. He was one of the first fourth gen pokemon to be shown, he STARRED in his own movie, is gotten in a way few pokemon are(From someone else, without trade and in an egg) and Rukario hasa unique typing.

Point 2)

You forgot all of Rukario's TM/HM's and Egg Moves.

How do you know it would be overpowered? You can't really judge overpowered at this point because we don't know ANYTHING about the Metagame. For all we know, Pit's Up-B could be overpowered.

And he brings PLENTY unique to the table. For example, I'll post a link to my moveset...

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2511284&postcount=744

Close Combat's effect is completely unique, Flash Cannon is unique, Brick Break's EFFECT is unique, Earthquake is only similar to DK's Down-B, but different due to the no keeping it up and the fact that mine sends out shockwaves for longer range, Vacuum Wave is fairly unique, Force Palm is unique and Rock Smash would be the first throw that turns one around, methinks. Also, by your definition, Luigi brought nothing unique in SSBM, just kicks, chops and ONE fire based move.

I cannot deny it, your Squirtle moveset IS unique. The only not unique ones are: Nair, Dair, USmash, Dash Attack, Neutral A, UTilt and UThrow.

Point 3)

Yes, the last two pokemon have been from Ruby and Sapphire. They have both been pokeballs. They did Deoxys to quell all the people saying he would get in and Groudon because he is one of the two pokemon on the cover of Ruby/Sapphire.

Saying that putting a Fourth Gen pokemon in would "Complete Reject the Fact" that there is a third gen is like saying putting Twilight Link in "Completely Rejects the Fact" That there are other links like OoT link and Original Link. Or that putting in 3-D Mario "Completely Rejects the Fact" that there is a Paper Mario.

Point 4)

"Crutch like a movie"? In that case, Mewtwo shouldn't get in because his whole storyline pretty much took place in the movie. Or Mario shouldn't get in, his only claim to fame is video games!

Snubble didn't have anything close to a starring role and Munchlax is actually asked for, but he also has Anime appearances and the fact he was one of the first released 4th Gen pokes on his side.

Yeah, Rukario's role kind of stunk. But you CANNOT DENY it is a STARRING ROLE. He even had his name in the title.

Yes, Mewtwo had a better role then Rukario in the movie, had a better storyline.

Yeah, he was the original last pokemon. But, he is already practically gaurenteed. He has his movies, the last pokemon, the evil and all. Though it is easily arguable to say that Rukario and Mewtwo could both get in.

So there's my counter to my arguement. Feel free to rip it apart, I'll be back when I can get on again or when my internet is back.

 

[Text Only Sword]

Edit- And to someone in the past few pages. Ash didn't get a RB starter as his starter because Pika is the Pokemon mascot/ the most loved-popular- iconic pokemon to every be made.
Nintendo doesn't even treat the starters = so why is this always some issue with some people?

Other way around actually. Pikachu is the pokemon mascot/ the most loved-popular- iconic because Ash picked him. In fact, Ashe's starter was going to be Clefairy for a very long time. They changed it to pikachu at the last possible minute. Really, the franchise wouldn't have suffered in the slightest had the little yellow rodent never been thought up...

Lukario is no less important to the games than jiggelypuff, or even Mewtwo was. Lukario is iconic of the fourth generation, and would be just plain kickass. To those of you who would actually think that squirtle would be a better idea... you're kidding right? Let's at least have something that can withstand a good blow. The last thing we need is a pichu repeat.

 

[Black/Light]

Other way around actually. Pikachu is the pokemon mascot/ the most loved-popular- iconic because Ash picked him. In fact, Ashe's starter was going to be Clefairy for a very long time. They changed it to pikachu at the last possible minute. Really, the franchise wouldn't have suffered in the slightest had the little yellow rodent never been thought up...

Lukario is no less important to the games than jiggelypuff, or even Mewtwo was. Lukario is iconic of the fourth generation, and would be just plain kickass. To those of you who would actually think that squirtle would be a better idea... you're kidding right? Let's at least have something that can withstand a good blow. The last thing we need is a pichu repeat.

I'd have to dissagree and ask for a link about the Pika stuff. ( the anime may do w/e it wants but from the start Pika has been used as the Pokemon mascot )

Mew2 was and still is the only pokemon villian in the games. Jpuff was Japan popular. Lucario is not important. . . or even that much more advertized than the other 4th gen pokemon.

And saying Pokemon wouldn't have suffered the least beat if their yellow mascot had not been the mascot is kind of like saying GoW would still be as big of a hit if they had some pretty boy looking Fabeo (sp) dude in place of Kartos. Or the Sonic series would be where it is now had the main character been Tails.

(Yeah, they ARE the main characters of their games and all but in pokey terms Im talking about advertizement. IF they where going to put her in place of Pika than Pokemon wouldn't have done as well as it has in the US/UK )

 

[Stryks]

Wait and blaziken is important to the series?

 

[PitIcarus]

They could just take out all pokemon from the games so you guys don't have these silly arguments. I guarantee if there is a new pokemon playable in this game it will be a 4th gen.

 

[Stryks]

^^
And who better than Lucario?

 

[Text Only Sword]

I'd have to dissagree and ask for a link about the Pika stuff. ( the anime may do w/e it wants but from the start Pika has been used as the Pokemon mascot )

Mew2 was and still is the only pokemon villian in the games. Jpuff was Japan popular. Lucario is not important. . . or even that much more advertized than the other 4th gen pokemon.
And saying Pokemon wouldn't have suffered the least beat if their yellow mascot had not been the mascot is kind of like saying GoW would still be as big of a hit if they had some pretty boy looking Fabeo (sp) dude in place of Kartos. Or the Sonic series would be where it is now had the main character been Tails.

(Yeah, they ARE the main characters of their games and all but in pokey terms Im talking about advertizement. IF they where going to put her in place of Pika than Pokemon wouldn't have done as well as it has in the US/UK )

The Pokemon franchise began with two games: Pokemon red, and Pokemon Blue. Everything else was spawned by their amazing success. The mascots for these games were charizard and blastoise respectively. Pikachu was originally just a generic, cutesy basic pokemon whose only distinction was that it had a stone evolution. Then came the anime, and pikachu was blown way out of proportion.

I can't remember where I read the clefairy thing, so disregard it if you want. I'm about 86% sure that it's true though. Looking back at when the first two games were released, clefairy and pikachu were very similar, so it makes quite a bit of sense that they would both have been considered.

Lucario was among the first of the fourth generation announced. It is also among the most recognizable of the pokemon introduced in Diamond and Pear, and has its own movie. Of course, these things have been said already, so it seems pointless to repeat them.

 

[the grim lizard]

booo! I hatez Pokemen!11!...They r teh suxxorz. They should put Sora and Naruto in the game....

 

[Black/Light]

Wait and blaziken is important to the series?

Blaziken is a starter and could rep starters for all I care to say.
(Really, attacking Blaze aint going to get you anywhere homs. And you Lucario fan boys are the ones popping off about him being important when he really aint. . . just touching on that point you all keep talking about)

Lucario was among the first of the fourth generation announced. (and? . So was Munch. . . in fact, Munch was THE first 4th gener) It is also among the most recognizable of the pokemon introduced in Diamond and Pear, (Amoung who?) and has its own movie. (So did Deoxys and look at him. And said movie was a DVD only everywhere outside of Japan (it was more like a filler movie. . . hte makers of the anime are calling Darkria's movie the first real 4th gen movie)) Of course, these things have been said already, so it seems pointless to repeat them. (Yea)

 

[dynamic_entry]

booo! I hatez Pokemen!11!...They r teh suxxorz. They should put Sora and Naruto in the game....

haha! you're doing almost as annoying a job as he is. props to you.

SQUIRTLE FOR BRAWL!

 

[JGTC]

Dunno if I'm the only one that thinks this but, I always thought Wartortle was cooler than Squirtle. Then again I always thought Charmeleon was cooler than Charmander. I never really liked how Blastoise looked and I'm kinda iffy with Charizard. The Bulba family was too ugly for me
Let's get somebody that's completely underestimate for Brawl... how about Tyranitar or Skarmory!?!?!

 

[PitIcarus]

Dunno if I'm the only one that thinks this but, I always thought Wartortle was cooler than Squirtle. Then again I always thought Charmeleon was cooler than Charmander. I never really liked how Blastoise looked and I'm kinda iffy with Charizard. The Bulba family was too ugly for me
Let's get somebody that's completely underestimate for Brawl... how about Tyranitar or Skarmory!?!?!

I still say if they add any new pokemon character they will add one from fourth generation.

And Skarmony? That's almost as dumb as the ridley for brawl fans.

 

[JGTC]

I still say if they add any new pokemon character they will add one from fourth generation.

And Skarmony? That's almost as dumb as the ridley for brawl fans.

I giggled like a chipmunk at that. I NEVER giggle like a chipmunk (Old quotes FTW!)....?

 

[Circus]

That's almost as dumb as the ridley for brawl fans.

Please don't tell me you're one of those "Ridley's too big" people. That argument doesn't hold any water.

 

[JGTC]

Please don't tell me you're one of those "Ridley's too big" people. That argument doesn't hold any water.

How so captain? He seems kinda big to me.

 

[Bassoonist]

How so captain? He seems kinda big to me.

They could change his size to fit the game better.

 

[Circus]

How so captain? He seems kinda big to me.

I'm sure the people in the Ridely for Brawl thread could say it better than I (they've had more practice, I'm sure), but basically, size makes no never mind in Smash.

Bowser and Donkey Kong are both really big, but they're in. And technically, Kirby's only 8 inches high, but in Smash, he's almost as tall as Mario. They make the characters an appropriate size for fighting. Ridley seems big, but he can be scaled down.

 

[PitIcarus]

Please don't tell me you're one of those "Ridley's too big" people. That argument doesn't hold any water.

I'm one of those "he's a ****ing bird like creature with wings, that would make a lame character in a game with characters with human-like characteristics " people.

 

[JGTC]

I'm sure the people in the Ridely for Brawl thread could say it better than I (they've had more practice, I'm sure), but basically, size makes no never mind in Smash.

Bowser and Donkey Kong are both really big, but they're in. And technically, Kirby's only 8 inches high, but in Smash, he's almost as tall as Mario. They make the characters an appropriate size for fighting. Ridley seems big, but he can be scaled down.

Point well delivered. I applaud your skills with words. As someone who likes the Kirby games a lot (my first post spoke of Meta Knight being roughly as tall as Kirby which should make his range kinda bad), I don't know why his size never popped into my head in a size argument.