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The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

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Anders Kaiser

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First, I hate when people compare any potential character to a retro. They are out of their league. Retros are retro; they have been around forever. Lucario can't touch anyone like Pit or ICs because they've been around for 20 years; he's been around for like two.
1) I don't even understand what the hell you mean by this. "Lucario can't touch them?" How so? In terms of popularity? I'm fairly sure more people know about Lucario now than knew about (or at least remember) the Ice Climbers pre-Melee. If you're talking about Brawl chances, then I feel I should point out, again, that the general trend is to bring in characters that have importance and popularity within their franchise, with some surprise retro people thrown in to highlight Nintendo's history. Either way, the outlook for Lucario is good.

2) Waluigi for Brawl!

(......ok, maybe not as a playable character. I've avoided posting in the Waluigi topic because I don't feel like being mercilessly flamed to death, but I do think that he gets kind of a bad rap. Actually, his appearance in so many high-selling games is a valid point for his chances, as far as I see it. But, this topic isn't about Waluigi, so I'll move on for now)

3) As far as the sales numbers go you do bring up a good point, however, bear in mind that you're comparing the sales of D/P to complete other franchises. Also take into consideration that the game was only released in America a few months ago, and in Europe only recently. That 10 million will continue to balloon as time goes on.
 

Legolastom

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But... he is not... how many of Fox's b moves involve energy attacks fighting attacks pokemon attacks or anything? and as for a move what character doesn't punch and kick? and Lucario could easily be a floating foxs and maybe even a bit faster.

Just because they look the same doesn't mean they act it...

And 1st gen PKMN do not count as retro just old!
 

Anders Kaiser

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Messages
108
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Somewhere to your left.....
I don't mean to overpost in this topic, but this has been tossed around so much that I just can't resist saying something about it.

I don't necessarily support Squirtle or only 1st gen...I just don't want a Pokemon who is basically exactly like Fox with a Shadow Ball.
I'll only say this once, and I'll even put it in bold for emphasis.

STOP COMPARING LUCARIO TO FOX McCLOUD

Where the hell did this even come from, anyway? Is this because of cosmetic similarities? OH NOES, TWO CHARACTERS THAT'RE BOTH IN THE CANINE FAMILY. We can't have that! Oh, wait, Mario, Luigi, and Wario say hi. Marth and Ike say hi, too. Fox and Falco also say hi since, you know, they wear the same outfit, and that's close enough.

Or is this because you think that he'd have a similar moveset? What did I say about the moveset speculation argument? Yeah no, also not a valid argument. So enough of that garbage, give the development team more credit than that, please.
 

the grim lizard

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1) I don't even understand what the hell you mean by this. "Lucario can't touch them?" How so? In terms of popularity? I'm fairly sure more people know about Lucario now than knew about (or at least remember) the Ice Climbers pre-Melee. If you're talking about Brawl chances, then I feel I should point out, again, that the general trend is to bring in characters that have importance and popularity within their franchise, with some surprise retro people thrown in to highlight Nintendo's history. Either way, the outlook for Lucario is good.
I mean exactly what I said. He can't touch them. Even you can't rationalize that Lucario is more important than Pikachu or a lot of other 1st gens. Most of the previous points are that he's the most important 4th gen. Anyway, that is beside the point, when I say that I mean exactly what I said...retros have been around for 20 years; Lucario has been around for like two. So don't compare them. When something is classic, you don't talk about popularity compared to characters today. You just don't.

bunch of stuff
Look, I'm being pretty calm over here. There is no reason to bite my head off. I compared Lucario to Fox the first second I saw him...I had nothing to do with what I read around here. And please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about him not getting because he's similar to Fox or because he would have no moveset or whatever. I just get tired of having the same types of characters. Pokemon are really the best chance to get some of the most unique ones, and to me, it just seems like a waste to put one in who, by definition, is simply a fighting type.

Say what you want about differences, but the difference between a fighting Fox and fighting Lucario is minuscule when you compare it to a Pokemon who could be a plant type or a water type. If you guys can't admit that he would be more like Fox or Falcon than some other type, then you are being biased. Also, yes, I think there should be some limits in similarity. I think a large reason why Goroh is an AT is that Sakurai didn't want so many sword-wielders. I mean, you will have Link, Meta Knight, Marth, and Ike for sure...he likes unique characters a lot more than popular ones. So many purely fighting types like this could get redundant really fast.

And on a final note...the argument of Pokemon D/P has been brough up many times, and it's automatically then assumed that Lucario is the obvious (and only) choice to rep this. Let me add to your consideration: the Japanese. They don't care for the cool or the awseome-looking Pokemon. I mean, look....you have Pichu and Jiggs. Nuff said?
 

Legolastom

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PKMN has only been around for 11 years... in japan even less everywhere else! they are hardly retro old yes retro NO! your right though Lucario cant touch squirtle... but TP cant touch OOT and *gasp* omg its TP Link... think... grim think grim think grim... please... grim... THINK!
 

the grim lizard

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PKMN has only been around for 11 years... in japan even less everywhere else! they are hardly retro old yes retro NO! your right though Lucario cant touch squirtle... but TP cant touch OOT and *gasp* omg its TP Link... think... grim think grim think grim... please... grim... THINK!
Why are you attributing this argument to me? I never said this. I only said that Lucario can't touch retro characters like Pit and ICs because they've been around 10x longer...:confused:
 

Legolastom

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Yhea i thought you meant PKMN my bad well lets just redirect that towards um thread starter then XD
 

Black/Light

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1. Will you all sthu about D/P sells? So what if 10 mill people got D/P. . . .don't mean 10 mill people LIKE/ WONT Lucario and 10 mill aint that big of a number to brag about.:ohwell:

2. Stop comparing Lucario to retros! Retros come from a time where gaming was just getting started! Pitt was there when the big bang of video games came. . . BEFORE they had the "OMG OMG, sell this that and the other with this game character! EVERYONE plays video games. . . " mind state. I hate to use the word "deserve" to talk about a character for brawl but by all means Pitt deserves his 2nd chance at fame a whole lot more than a over-rated jackal with the same energy ball you see in aint random anime.
(I mean, come ON! Pitt and the IC are STARS of their games. . . not just some pokemon with not-so-good stats)

3. I aint seen one Lucario product in real life. From the looks of it he aint used to advertize much more than most other 4th geners.

4. You know where I see Lucario popularity? On smash forums and a Pokemon anime forum I go to. . . and they want Ash to get a Lucario because Dawn "took Buizel away from him" and Chimchar is with Paul so theres no other "coo" pokemon he can have. . .
Thats what I see. Thats his claim to fame. Smash fans want a "coo" Fox wannbe and Ash fan girls want a "coo" pokemon for Ash. Normal people don't know wth a Lucario is and smash fans who don't follow the series don't know who he is.

5. Popular popularity popularity. . .
What did Sakurai say in his notes?
"Asking for only popular characters don't get me excited".
What did he say in his opening line about Deoxy?
"Now, this is a popular character!"

Just cause us fans hype something doesn't mean it will happen.
 

PrinnyFlute

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331
...Man. You guys are just getting...man. What the hell is wrong with you, seriously? No, every single one of you who keeps freaking out about this. You're all having bloody effing fits over this. Did Lucario kill your parents? Burn your house down? Jesus H. Christ.

No, I'm going to say this **** one more time, and I'm leaving you all to spew bile and venom about WHICH POKEMON IS MAKING IT INTO BRAWL. Serious business.

"Nobody really knows or likes Lucario, you're dumb." Kids who watch the movies know him. Those are people. People who OWN D/P AND GOT MOST OF THE WAY THROUGH THE GAME (10mill units sold, as was noted,) KNOW WHO HE IS. People who, say, watched D/P news in the months before the Japanese release know who he is. In my experience (yes, I HAVE EXPERIENCE GOD FORBID) people who didn't meet those qualifiers, overheard me and my friends talking about him WITHOUT knowing who he was, actually, yes, LIKED him when they saw his picture and heard about him. Sorry if this contradicts with your experience somehow. Most older pokemon fans who aren't ridiculously elitist about the first gen don't seem to particularly have a problem with him. I'm not telling you he IS cool, or that EVERYONE thinks he's cool. People I know who both knew about him and didn't know about him...think he's pretty cool. Just SAYING what happens in my life. God forbid.

Oh, and apparently, the folks who keep buying this stuff: http://www.pokemoncenter.com/bin/ve...hex=lucario&searchsubmit.x=0&searchsubmit.y=0 like him.

"Lucario would be just like Fox, you're dumb." Number one, he wouldn't. Number two, even if he were similar (WHICH HE MOST LIKELY WOULD NOT BE,) it would not be the end of the world. Lucario is actually not all that fast in the game, and even though he's acrobatic in the movie, it doesn't mean he actually has to be fast. Freaking hell, I could see him being a workable -Mario- clone. And yes, sorry Lucario is dog-like, and so is Fox. You think anybody really cares in real life? Do you think your friends are going to come over, see Fox, Krystal, and Lucario on a roster of 40 characters, and go, "GOD IT'S ****ING DOG CITY IN THIS GAME IT'S STUPID I'M GONNA GO PLAY MADDEN INSTEAD!" And FFS, the only similarities along those lines are probably height, standing on two legs, and looking dog-like. Sorry, Marth, Roy, Link, Gannondorf, Zelda, Captain Falcon were all reasonably heighted human beings wearing clothes. CALL THE CONFORMITY POLICE.

We want original characters in Brawl. We want interesting characters in Brawl. But if you honestly think every single little tiny character they put in needs to be 200% different from every other character...well, please, don't ever, ever think about making a game. Or movie, or writing a book. Or making art. Or generally any sort of endeavor where a proper understanding of how 'contrast' works is a necessity.

"Lucario is ugly/stupid/unoriginal, you're dumb." Thanks for telling me how you feel. It's nice to have opinions. Everybody has them. :) Now, let's try the next step of discussion: respecting other peoples opinions! :)

"Everybody knows who (X firstgen pokemon,) is but nobody knows who Lucario is, you're dumb." or "I had to look Lucario up, therefor nobody knows who he is, you're dumb." Smash isn't just for 'you.' It's not just for 'oldschool elitists.' It's also not just for 'hardcore pokemon fans' as you keep calling them. (I didn't realize playing the most recent game and liking one of the pokemon in it made me a hardcore fan?)

Smash is for EVERYONE. And, again, from my exposure: people who played DP mostly seem to like him or at least know who he is (again, 10,000,000 copies sold. Don't tell me 10,000,000 people don't matter,) and the people who didn't do that and don't know about him (see: my friends who DO NOT COME TO THIS OR ANY OTHER GAMING FORUM,) seem to like him well enough when they do find out about him. For the most part, it would seem. The poll here seems to say that well enough: I'm sure more than enough people who voted on it only found out how he looks and what he does before voting for him. They're pretty much in the same category as millions of players who would see him in Brawl and go, "Huh, looks pretty cool," which is why we seem to think he would be a good choice: 10mill+ already know about him, and MOST of the rest seem to like him well enough when they DO learn about him.

"But Squirtle is still more popular world wide, you're dumb." WELL YEAH HE IS HE'S GOT LIKE 10 YEARS UP ON LUCARIO. YES, millions more know about the first gen. BUT GUESS WHAT. All you crazy elitest former players, and all the people who never played but just know a bit about Pokemon from it's huge heyday: YOU ALREADY HAVE PIKACHU. AND JIGGLYPUFF. AND MEWTWO. But still, instead of making a choice that potentially pleases A) people who still give Nintendo money by BUYING AND PLAYING GAMES LIKE DP B) most regular folks who would likely think he's at least palettable, you want Nintendo to KEEP THROWING BONES TO YOU CHEAP ****ERS THAT DIDN'T EVEN BUY DP, AND THE SAME ONES THAT NEVER CARED THAT MUCH IN THE FIRST PLACE. You're not even effing putting your money down on the Pokemon series, and you still think Sakurai should keep picking Pokemon that make you happy.
No: People who only played and liked Red and Blue, pick up an effing controller and play Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. People who never cared much for pokemon in the first place...WHAT DO YOU EFFING CARE? If you just don't like Lucario, that's all well and good, but you don't exactly have much right to be talking. Yes, you might know who Squirtle is and not Lucario, but 99% of folks who never touched pokemon won't care one way or the other what Pokemon gets in Brawl: They've never played Pokemon, it's just another Pokemon. Even if they recognize it, the common reaction can't be anything more than a "Oh, it's Squirtle! Cool! Anyway, back to Fox and Mario," because they were NEVER INTO POKEMON IN THE FIRST PLACE.

No, effing flame me about how ridiculous this all is, go ahead. Like I pulled this all out of my *** or made it up or something. Like I had to really try hard to go to the freaking pokemon shop website and search "Lucario." Yes, get angry on the internets, go nuts and insult me because, dear God, like the other 300 votes on the poll on these forums, I want a freaking pokemon in a video game.

Brawl: serus biznesses
 

Legolastom

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1. Will you all sthu about D/P sells? So what if 10 mill people got D/P. . . .don't mean 10 mill people LIKE/ WONT Lucario and 10 mill aint that big of a number to brag about.:ohwell:

2. Stop comparing Lucario to retros! Retros come from a time where gaming was just getting started! Pitt was there when the big bang of video games came. . . BEFORE they had the "OMG OMG, sell this that and the other with this game character! EVERYONE plays video games. . . " mind state. I hate to use the word "deserve" to talk about a character for brawl but by all means Pitt deserves his 2nd chance at fame a whole lot more than a over-rated jackal with the same energy ball you see in aint random anime.
(I mean, come ON! Pitt and the IC are STARS of their games. . . not just some pokemon with not-so-good stats)

3. I aint seen one Lucario product in real life. From the looks of it he aint used to advertize much more than most other 4th geners.

4. You know where I see Lucario popularity? On smash forums and a Pokemon anime forum I go to. . . and they want Ash to get a Lucario because Dawn "took Buizel away from him" and Chimchar is with Paul so theres no other "coo" pokemon he can have. . .
Thats what I see. Thats his claim to fame. Smash fans want a "coo" Fox wannbe and Ash fan girls want a "coo" pokemon for Ash. Normal people don't know wth a Lucario is and smash fans who don't follow the series don't know who he is.

5. Popular popularity popularity. . .
What did Sakurai say in his notes?
"Asking for only popular characters don't get me excited".
What did he say in his opening line about Deoxy?
"Now, this is a popular character!"

Just cause us fans hype something doesn't mean it will happen.
1: We were trying to tell them that people actually did know who Lucario was and i don't think ANY Zelda game has sold 10 million before so why don't you STFU!

2: Jesus we were not even comparing them they were just... i don't even know what they were doing actually.And since when did we say anything about him getting in over FING PIT!?

3: He is being used to advertise more than other 4th gen but not particularly much more.

4: So you find him popular on the forums regarding the two game he is relating to... ok then

5: We are not just asking for Lucario because he is Popular... i don't know why i bother better to just wait for Stryk's to sort all you out. (And learn how to spell Deoxys).
 

Black/Light

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^ This is what I was trying to say...:ohwell:
I know:p.
I just expanded upon some points I saw.
(And who ever said that Lucario is 10x more wanted than D3, Ridley ans w/e REALLY needs to open there eyes. Lucario's fad has been falling for more than a half a year now)
 

kaid

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wario dk and yoshi aren't mario series characters. wario was in only one mario adventure game, and then he went off and did a carear on his own. same thing with dk, and yoshi has yoshi's island

and i could see m2 getting cut
I don't mean to overpost in this topic, but this has been tossed around so much that I just can't resist saying something about it.



I'll only say this once, and I'll even put it in bold for emphasis.

STOP COMPARING LUCARIO TO FOX McCLOUD

Where the hell did this even come from, anyway? Is this because of cosmetic similarities? OH NOES, TWO CHARACTERS THAT'RE BOTH IN THE CANINE FAMILY. We can't have that! Oh, wait, Mario, Luigi, and Wario say hi. Marth and Ike say hi, too. Fox and Falco also say hi since, you know, they wear the same outfit, and that's close enough.

Or is this because you think that he'd have a similar moveset? What did I say about the moveset speculation argument? Yeah no, also not a valid argument. So enough of that garbage, give the development team more credit than that, please.
This actually dates back to the Blaze vs Lucario debates. Anti-blaze people say Blaze would be an ideal Captian falcon clone, and some bright Blaze supporter turned that around with a " Well, Lucario could be a FOX clone! So there!"

Ever since, anti-lucario people have been using this as a rallying cry.
 

Black/Light

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1: We were trying to tell them that people actually did know who Lucario was and i (learn to cap your 'I's. . . I will stop there cause I don't feel like correcting everything) don't think ANY Zelda game has sold 10 million before so why don't you STFU!
(So D/P as a GAME sold 10 mill with Lucario as the main character? Or was it the collective effort of the changes to this game that took it back to the hit it was? So what if DP fans know what Lucario is. . . what does that mean? He is known by DP fans. . . thats what that means (don't mean 10 mill + like him).

2: Jesus we were not even comparing them they were just... i don't even know what they were doing actually.And since when did we say anything about him getting in over FING PIT!? Anders Kaiser " I don't even understand what the hell you mean by this. "Lucario can't touch them (Pitt/Ic)?" How so? In terms of popularity? I'm fairly sure more people know about Lucario now than knew about (or at least remember) the Ice Climbers pre-Melee."

Thats what I was talking about. Didn't say they where saying Lucario should be in over Pitt, just that PITT got in on completely different terms so stop comparing them.

3: He is being used to advertise more than other 4th gen but not particularly much more.

4: So you find him popular on the forums regarding the two game he is relating to... ok then . . . Yeah, cause we ALL know that the Pokemon anime forums are just soo connected to the games :ohwell:. In terms of actual pokemon GAME forums I never really see him. . .
(And as I said, it's the Smash fans that follow Pokemon that rave about him.)


5: We are not just asking for Lucario because he is Popular (your trying to use that as a reason he should be in. I don't care why you like him. . . I only care about your reasons for him) ... i don't know why i bother better to just wait for Stryk's to sort all you out. (And learn how to spell Deoxys) (Learn how to cap your 'I's) .
And there. . .
This actually dates back to the Blaze vs Lucario debates. Anti-blaze people say Blaze would be an ideal Captian falcon clone, and some bright Blaze supporter turned that around with a " Well, Lucario could be a FOX clone! So there!"

Ever since, anti-lucario people have been using this as a rallying cry.
When did that happen?

Lucario=M2 clone was all I use to hear:ohwell:.

Seems like more people just got over the "coo" look and said ". . .hey, this thing looks like a Fox wannbe".
 

the grim lizard

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This actually dates back to the Blaze vs Lucario debates. Anti-blaze people say Blaze would be an ideal Captian falcon clone, and some bright Blaze supporter turned that around with a " Well, Lucario could be a FOX clone! So there!"

Ever since, anti-lucario people have been using this as a rallying cry.
I think there is more to it than that because I thought the exact same thing the first time I saw him, and I didn't know other people thought the same thing about him being so similar to Fox. Apparently I'm not alone in that, though...
 

Legolastom

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When i was talking about sales it had nothing to do with Lucario its just you said that those sales were not anything and i was proving you wrong. (I hasn't even been out a year yet and its already got 10mill!) but just check PrinnyFlute's posts...

(And dont even get me started on the rest of your spelling mistakes...)
 

Black/Light

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When i was talking about sales it had nothing to do with Lucario its just you said that those sales were not anything and i was proving you wrong. (I hasn't even been out a year yet and its already got 10mill! (IT'S FLIPPN POKEMON!! Theres a reason the series is 2nd to Mario in terms of sells. When I say what I say about sells Im talking about the fact that selling alot=/= EVERYone knowing him. IDK how many games LOZ has sold but no matter how low they are to Pokemon I can tell you right now that more people know Link before they know [insert 4th gen pokemon]. Just add up every game Link is end compared to Lucario and you will see what I mean. ) ) but just check PrinnyFlute's posts...

(And dont even get me started on the rest of your spelling mistakes...don't get me started on yours. . .you actually did get started with your Deoxys correction. )

And there again.
 

PyrasTerran

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I think Lucario would indeed make a good foil to Mewtwo. Both have a 'kamehameha' charging attack, yet one uses psychic moves and the other fighting. They don't have to be clones moreso than they could be foils to add variety. "you can pick the basic pokemon(pikachu), the cute pokemon(jigglypuff), the brawler pokemon(lucario), or the specials pokemon(mewtwo). Lucario's representation both in PBR and in his movie show that he has the style to make for a great fighter.

Squirtle, on the other hand, would make for a poor selection, in my opinion. Yes everyone knows who he is, but they also know who charmander is, and charmander is arguable more popular thanks to charizard. So why not charmander, then? Or any other starters?

I'm glad there are no starters for playable characters. If they must be in the game they can be added as pokeballs like the GSC starters were.
 

kaid

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I think there is more to it than that because I thought the exact same thing the first time I saw him, and I didn't know other people thought the same thing about him being so similar to Fox. Apparently I'm not alone in that, though...
There is one thing all you people overlook, though. Lucario has big spikes on his paws that just ask to be used in a moveset. Fox NEVER uses his hands. While minor, this makes Fox comparisons impracticle, even leaving aside the energy moves Lucario uses.

While they may share some animations on some moves, consider that over a third of the characters in Melee had the exact same N-air.
 

the grim lizard

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I went to the Lucario thread, and there was a link to a video clip. It had him running or something, and all I could think was...Fox/Sheik.
 

Black/Light

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Capable? Yes. . .but Fox was "capable" of doing the same thing and look at him.

Hand-and-feet doesn't really jump out at me when looking at Lucario. More like a slightly more arm using Fox rip with Zelda's B.
 

kaid

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...did you see Luigi shooting himself off as a missile, just looking at him?

And really, how can you call anything without a shine a fox rip?
 

Black/Light

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Actually, I felt that that attack fits him very well for his persona and character. Did I see him doing that before hand? No.

But thats not really the point here. What that shows is that characters can get attacks and what-not that we didn't think of before hand and I never said Lucario couldn't do that as well. My point is that he reminds me WAY too much of Fox/ Falcon with a Zelda B when ever I look at him.

He COULD be different compared to both of said characters, thats a fact. But I personally see too many simularities between the "arue" he gives off and that of characters we have. Thats why I support characters from pokemon that are unique all around like Darkrai/ Buneary-Lopunny/ Gard/ P&M and even Mewile (never going to happen).

And the shine thing. . . look at what attack I fond that Lucario learns.

Me first. (works like a shine in that it counters but user stil takes damage and the counter is 1.5 stronger than the attack)

Before that attack was called that I could SOOO see Lucario with that as his Bv and suggested that last year when I supported him. Now that I look back on my support of him I see that even than I only saw him as a Fox rip. :ohwell:
 

_the_sandman_

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Hoo boy, leave for a few hours and several more pages show up. Geez, where to begin. Where to begin indeed.....

Well to briefly respond to Prinnyflutes major post on the previous page. I have to say a few things.

1. Every character in the game should be dynamically different I know you said - "But if you honestly think every single little tiny character they put in needs to be 200% different from every other character...well, please, don't ever, ever think about making a game." But you couldn't be more wrong about this Prinnyflutes. Every single character should be at least 200% different than the next. That's why Yoshi is soft and cartoony, while Snake looks rough and realistic. As well as Samus looking serious while Wario attacks in a very goofy manner. Coloring, fighting styles, moves, jumps, emotions, abilities, etc all should be different for every character. Why would you even want some characters to be the same as others? Hasn't a Pikachu/Pichu or Marth/Roy combo taught you anything about how bad cloning is? I want a game where every character is diverse so I can freely choose amongst different characters. Its a shame when people have to decide to be Mario or Dr. Mario because they're so similar. No one should look, act, or be the same at all!

2. As you and I have both said SMASH IS FOR EVERYONE! So why not have a character EVERYONE can recognize. Huge Mario fans know who Cackletta and Vivian are, but every Mario fan knows who Luigi is. Huge Metroid fans know who the SA-X is, but every Metroid fans know who Ridley is. This concept works for Pokemon as well you see. Everyone knows who Poliwhirl is, but only the huge pokemon fans know who Lucario is.

Again, why not have a character EVERYONE can recognize. Have the "WTF" characters be from a different franchise that everyone forgot about. Let in the character from Pokemon be someone people can notice.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I'm going to have to back to the moveset for Lucario, and the idea that fans and foes of Lucario both have said he is like Fox/Sheik. Here are my thoughts on these issues.

Lucario moveset can be good. If Sakurai puts him in the game he will end up with a good move set like all of the other characters. But that isn't my point. I could go onto another rant about the fact he's a fighting/steel type but that won't get us anywhere. So here's some extra reasoning...

Most of the characters in the game will end up using their fists to fight. Most of Mario's attacks are just normal hits, as well as DK, as well as Yoshi, and so on. But then comes a character once in a while that has more than just "standard" hits, they have some extra element to their attacks. Pikachu for example, many of his attacks bring electricity to the field. IC have brought the ice element to the field, and Mewtwo has introduce a dark energy element. Some characters have fire attacks as well.

Why do I say this? Well, isn't it fun to just set your opponent on fire? Don't you get a different feel for the game when you opponent is sent flying with bolts coming off their body? Well that brings us to Lucario. His moveset for the most part would be normal hitting attacks. Sure he might pull of a beam attack that can immitate electricity. And darkness wouldn't be fair, leave that element for, you know, evil characters like Ganondorf. So while it doesn't seem like a big deal, it kind of is.

The Pokemon world consists of over a dozen types of elements. Including Fire, Electric, Water, Grass, Poison, Rock, Ground, and Ice. What my point is, if you have a game that can introduce a new type of element to the field, why not use it? Why have a fighting character, you know a character like every other character in the game, when you could have a character with Grass elements? A lot of characters can be remodeled to use a fire attack (Like Captain Falcon or Fox), but no one can use a water element as a smash attack. What I'm saying here is there should be a lot more unique characters, and Pokemon is a good step towards that direction.

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Now to the Fox issue. While I may tease about Lucario being like Fox, I'm pretty sure we can all see them being different. If you are a Lucario fan saying he should be like Fox, you should sit down, look back, and think about what you have done with your life. But he is awfully swift and ninja like, so I can see why everyone wants another Fox-like character. But heres some more reasoning to why we don't need him.

We have enough speedy characters, in fact I'm sure more will pop up. Fox, C. Falcon, Sheik, Yoshi, Falco, and Pikachu are already quick on their feet. And if Sonic makes it into the game thats just another speedster to add to the group. Not to mention how fast some characters can attack, like Mario and Marth. A lot of characters can be fast, you just need to look into it.

So what's wrong with adding another clumsy character to the group? Like Luigi or Wario? What's wrong with floaty characters like Kirby or Jigglypuff? Has everyone forgot about these types of characters? Another Pokemon like Squirtle or Poliwhirl can easily be added into the more average type of characters.

Heh, everyone wants their favorite character to be like Fox because he was a "God tier" in Melee. Hehehehe, Sakurai did say some changes are going to be made! Maybe you shouldn't be looking up to Fox so much? I mean a lot of people loved Kirby in SSB64, but they abandoned him in Melee. People are already in tears about Fox's fall speed being slowed down. And... and we haven't seen Sheik around for some time. You think she might be back? You guys think Bowser will still be weak? You think Pit is going to be the best?

The game hasn't been out yet people. Boy do you guys have a lot to learn! You guys will be quite surprised by the results!

Now I'm not saying Lucario would be a good or bad character in the game. I am just saying he is undeserving for this position. And hoping he will be a God Tier is just plain silly at this point.


I mean, Sakurai has better things to do. Do you really think he's spending his days reading these boards, or any other forum on the internet? Probably not. He's going by instinct, and he has the top Smash crew by his side. They will know who is worthy enough for Brawl! Just because this forum wants him doesn't mean he cares about Lucario at all.
 

PyrasTerran

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Lucario's more deserving than any of the starters though, that is for sure.

I think one of the points you're trying to bring up is that Lucario can't do much else other than punch and kick and use melee attacks. well so does DK. Why must everything have a pokemon element?

What separates Lucario from most of the other fighters is that he fills a gap that previous only Shiek covered: a hand-to-hand, disciplined martial artist.

And with Shiek possibly gone, will there be no one to represent martial artists?
 

Stryks

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Look WHY in GODS name would sakurai add squirtle NOW after what 10 years that red and blue were released? point is sure hes recognizable but he aint THAT popular, in comparison with other characters like mewtwo, pikachu, munchlax and so on...

Thing is blastoise is a pokeball pkmn, hes been one since 64, I doubt its gonna change this time around... why add his WEAKER pre-evolve form as a playable pokemon?

also choosing one starter to be playable among the rest is like saying hes more popular and better than the rest, which is untrue, since pretty much all the starters are well balanced...

and why not add totodile, pretty much everyone who played Red/blue playes gold/silver/cristal and is too recognizable and popular, or why not mudkip, hes more popular than quirtle for some reason, a lot of guys like him... or why not go for the latest gen, pearl and diamond, seeing how these 2 titles sold more in one week than any other pokemon game, adding the penguin would be better off cause new pkmn gamers would recognize him easier...

and besides charmender is WAY more popular than squirtle do too his fully evolved form, charizard, why not add him?

Thing is squirtle aint getting in, if ur some obssesed squirtle fan then u need help, no starter is getting in, and especially preevolve forms (dont count pichu, he was a filler)...

Lucario is both popular here and in japan, has his own movie, and being part metal, and part psychic he can be a fast semi strong character with great defense or something, he is unique, can talk just like mewtwo and is by far the best candidate, ur in f'king denial if u dont see it...
 

Bassoonist

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Look WHY in GODS name would sakurai add squirtle NOW after what 10 years that red and blue were released? point is sure hes recognizable but he aint THAT popular, in comparison with other characters like mewtwo, pikachu, munchlax and so on...
WHY in GODS name would Sakurai add Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, Ness, and Pit?
 

Stryks

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... u ********? Retro characters are added to represent the retro days of nintendo, they dont have to be popular, they dont have to be recognizable, they just have to be old school to be added to be in, and ICs, GaW and Pit are as retro as u can be... and besides pit was actually one of the most wanted character if there was ever to be a 3rd smash... and walla there he is...

and Ness is the main character of mother 1 and 2, mother 1, known here as earthbound was very popular during the SNES era... and the mother series is very popular in japan...

so think before posting okay?
 

Bassoonist

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I did think before posting. You stated that Squirtle couldn't make it in because the game he was in was released 10 years ago.

To be honest with you I have no clue what Munchlax is, so he/she/it is not as popular as you claim. The same goes for Lucario, if there hadn't been all of these topics I would have had no clue who he is.
 

silver777

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starters wont be in the game for the same reason why they didn't give Ash one of them at the beginning of the Anime....by doing this they will favor one over the other.

the most famous 4gen pokemon now are Lucario, Munchlax and Mime.Jr .. expect one of them to be in brawl.
 

Stryks

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I did think before posting. You stated that Squirtle couldn't make it in because the game he was in was released 10 years ago.

To be honest with you I have no clue what Munchlax is, so he/she/it is not as popular as you claim. The same goes for Lucario, if there hadn't been all of these topics I would have had no clue who he is.
Maybe u should READ, Retros are part of the NES era, the pokemon games arent, the NES era are 20 yearls old, and red and blue is what 10? besides if we add squirtle why not charmender, why not bulbasaur? why not pidgey or ratata? u know why? cause they arent important to the series as legendary pokemon are...

Maybe u dont know who munchlax, but in japan munchlax is the unoficial mascot of the newest gen, hes somewhat less than pikachu in japan, even if u dont believe me, sorry but where it counts is japan, and people love munchlax...

and besides just because YOUI havent heard of him, doesnt mean millions among millions of people dont know who he is, its like saying:
me: OMG chuck norris is so popular..
other guy: who?
*Chuck norris popularity has declined drastically*
 

Bassoonist

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To be honest I'm on neither side here.

Partially because I haven't played Diamond or Pearl.

I don't really care whether Lucario gets in or not, but really I have no clue who these "popular" 4th generation Pokemon are.

Meh, if they get in they better bring something unique to the game. That's all I care about.

Stryks: I doubt I'm the only one around here who doesn't know who Munchlax is. Have you not read through this topic? Many people didn't know who Lucario was before they came to this forum.
 
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