The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[pineappleupsetshark]

Besides, the new Pokemon game came out in America in like, April. You don't think people are still going out and buying it? You think they'll notice it just because Brawl had Lucario? Lucario isn't going to bring that much money in like the Iceclimbers can.

I guarantee you there will be a third to D/P, and it will be announced this coming fall/winter.
When that happens, Lucario will be excellent advertising. For that matter, any 4th generation Pokemon playable would be.

Here's a list update, do any of these older gens seem worthy for Brawl? I'll star the ones I prefer the most.

*Squirtle
Charmander
Meowth
*Poliwhirl
Totodile
Marill
*Treecko
Torchic
Sceptile
Blaziken

This is a rather stupid list, considering starters either suffer the PokeBall curse, or get Totodile'd.

My list:
Meowth
Lucario
Farfetch'd
Kecleon
Croagunk
Carnivine
Gardevoir
Psyduck
Sudowoodo

Hah! My list is much cooler. Let the actual Pokemon fans decide, not the retro freaks who hate all Pokemon games that are not named Red or Blue.

As far as Lucario goes I have no idea who would fill mewtwos position... other than deoxys but he is an AT -_-

Gardevoir...
or my acid-trip choice, Kecleon.

polywhirl would be mega pwnage, but i think he's complete randomness as far as pokemon selection goes would lower his chances drastically

Random Piece of Trivia: Poliwhirl is Satoshi Tajiri's favorite Pokemon. Tajiri is the creator of Pokemon, so his opinion does matter.

i can't believe some of you people think that the fourth generation will just be skipped over because this isn't the forth smash game yet, and that it will only go up to the third generation because 'they haven't had a turn yet.'

i can pretty much guarantee that the fourth generation will be in brawl.

when brawl comes out, diamond and pearl will have been released for a year.

SSB is about representing nintendo.
both recently and old school.

all four generations of pokemon will definitely be in pokeballs, simple as that.

as for playable characters, we will just have to see who comes along.

You, sir, have won the thread. Bravo!


ANYHOO!
This thread should be closed, as it's just a guy who knows very little about Pokemon ranting about which Pokemon should be in Brawl.
Leave that to the fans to argue about.

 

[_the_sandman_]

I return, again. Its a shame this thread got knocked back so far because now we're getting somewhere with it!

Some discussion on which pokemon will be represented and how many? Lets take a look at this! Alright so assuming there will be 100+ pokemon in the pokeballs lets try to figure out how many from which pokemon series there will be. Work with me on this one people.

Well there was 30 in Melee and less in the N64 game. So instead of 100 I'm going to do 60. Doubling the Melee amount seems reasonable. And I'm going to *star* the legendary pokemon.

First Gen
1. Goldeen
2. Snorlax
3. Clefairy
4. Charizard
5. Blastoise
6. Weezing
7. Electrode
8. *Moltres*
9. *Zapdos*
10. *Articuno*
11. *Mew*
12. Staryu
13. Chansey
14. Venusaur
15. Ditto (Removed from Gameplay) So we'll put Gengar here for now.

Second Gen
1. Chikorite
2. Wobbuffet
3. Unknown
4. Scizor
5. Bellossom
6. *Raikou*
7. *Entei*
8. *Suicune*
9. *Lugia*
10. *Ho-oh*
11. Togepi
12. *Celebi*
13. Cyndaquil
14. Marill
15. Porygon2

Look at that, perfectly even. Now if we have 60 pokemon, then we either we will have a very diverse amount of characters, or way too much. So 10 of them are legendary, which would be one-third the amount of Pokemon. I don't know about you but one-third being legenday seems to be a bit overkill to me. If there were 60 pokemon then we would have a more even amount of "normal" pokemon compared to the "almighty" pokemon.

Of course he might not even represent the 4th generation that much, because lets face it, there are WAY too many pokemon for this game. I can't even see Lucario appearing in a pokeball since there are so many. I mean, 45 sounds like a good number of pokemon. How many do you guys need in order to be happy? 100? 200? 400? Lets be reasonable about this guys, Sakurai's not going to go that far. 45 makes sense, but I might be able to agree with 60.


I'm not really that excited to see any Pokemon from the 4th gen appearing in the pokeballs. Mainly because I have no idea who any of them are. I looked over them again last night and decided to pick out 15 from Ruby, and 15 from Diamond. Lets see if we can come up with some winners. And of course we'll HAVE to add all of the legendaries.

Third Gen
1. Sceptile
2. Blaziken
3. Swampert
4. Carvanha
5. Shiftry
6. Lombre
7. Gardevoir
8. Dusclops
9. *Regirock*
10. *Regice*
11. *Registeel*
12. *Kyrogre*
13. *Groudon*
14. *Rayquaza*
15. *Jirachi*

Fourth Gen
1. *Uxie*
2. *Mesprit*
3. *Azelf*
4. *Dialga*
5. *Palkia*
6. *Heatran*
7. *Regigigas*
8. *Giratina*
9. *Cresselia*
10. *Phione*
11. *Manaphy*
12. *Darkai*
13. *Shaymin*
14. *Arceus*
15. Toxicroak


Ugh, look at these results. Just plain ugly. This might seem extreme, but in the 1st and 2nd gen pokemon that were represented have all shown every legendary pokemon in Smash. If he follows that rule, then just look at what a mess it will become! I mean, 7 more legenday characters from the 3rd gen seemed like an overdose, but 4th gen had an outstanding 14!

14!

14 Lengendary characters! It would have been one more but I don't consider Lucario to be much of a legend. Seriously, its bad enough if 17/45 characters are legendary, but 31/60 is just plain terrible! There would be more legendary than normal pokemon if this happened! I might not be completely accurate with this since I never played D+P, but even if you knocked out two or three from the legendary list its still way too much!

I didn't realize that the fourth generation could cause more than just a Lucario problem, but it can also ruin the pokeball! I really don't want to be all out against the 4th gen, but seeing these results it makes me not want them in at all.

So how many pokemon should be in the game? And which gens should be allowed in? For me I'm fine with 45 pokemon and only representing the first, seconds, and third generation.

 

[Legolastom]

Um are you and idiot or something? seriously he isn't going to put EVERY legendary in the pokeballs and what Lucario problem? we already established that you know nothing and that Lucario should/Is going to be in brawl!

(And phione isn't a legendary)

 

[_the_sandman_]

Um are you and idiot or something? seriously he isn't going to put EVERY legendary in the pokeballs and what Lucario problem? we already established that you know nothing and that Lucario should/Is going to be in brawl!

(And phione isn't a legendary)

He's done it before, what makes you think he won't do it again? And its like I said, I don't have the game so it isn't entirely accurate. But I did mention that if you took a few off the list that it would still be too much.

And I don't know anything about Lucario? How am I STILL able to bring up enough evidence that he shouldn't be in Brawl? The fact I have enough material to continue this thread without becoming repetative should show that Lucario shouldn't be in the game as a playable character.

 

[Anders Kaiser]

And again, there's no law anywhere stating that every legendary from every generation of the series should or will show up in Brawl. You could lump the three lake spirits from D/P into one item if you wanted to, and if they bring in Kyogre to partner alongside Groudon, there probably wouldn't be a need to add Palkia and Dialga as well.

Anyway, the point is that it's impossible to determine right now what pokeball 'mons they'll add. I'd guess that most of them will be from the 3rd and 4th gen, with a few particular favorites from the earlier games. As I recall not THAT many were carried over from 64 to Melee (Snorlax is one, and you could probably consider Chansey and Porygon). All we can do is wait.

As for Lucario, most of your "evidence" has been fairly handily refuted throughout the topic. Whether or not you personally like Lucario, I would think that the arguments presented at least show that he has some of the best chances of any pokemon of making it in as a playable.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

And I don't know anything about Lucario? How am I STILL able to bring up enough evidence that he shouldn't be in Brawl? The fact I have enough material to continue this thread without becoming repetative should show that Lucario shouldn't be in the game as a playable character.

...You haven't responded to any of my points. Or any other well made points, actually. I wouldn't say you've been able to come up with anything.

I wouldn't say you're even READING YOUR OWN THREAD.

 

[the grim lizard]

I expect 100+ pokeball pokemon, plus an equal number of ATs.

That's more than enough to include all 12 starters, the 4 legendary trios, The Event Legendarys (Mew, Celebii, Jiraichi, Deoxys, Manphy and it's baby, Darkrai, Aruzeus and a few others) and all the other legendaries from the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen, AND include reps from all 4 generations of normal pokemon.

0_o

I don't expect that many. Melee only had 4 from the 1st gen. (I believe)...but who knows? I could be wrong.

 

[Legolastom]

He's done it before, what makes you think he won't do it again? And its like I said, I don't have the game so it isn't entirely accurate. But I did mention that if you took a few off the list that it would still be too much.

And I don't know anything about Lucario? How am I STILL able to bring up enough evidence that he shouldn't be in Brawl? The fact I have enough material to continue this thread without becoming repetative should show that Lucario shouldn't be in the game as a playable character.

"They did it once so why not do it again?" Because they are not stupid and wont just do thing because "They did it before"

And what you say against Lucario doesn't even make sense! FOR GODS SAKE YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED THE BLOODY GAME!!

So can you please stop acting like an idiot like what your saying is true IT ISNT! "Half the fans don't even know Lucario" WTF!

Jesus... can somebody get Stryk's down here!!

 

[_the_sandman_]

...You haven't responded to any of my points. Or any other well made points, actually. I wouldn't say you've been able to come up with anything.

I wouldn't say you're even READING YOUR OWN THREAD.

Actually I have been reading everyone's posts. But I don't have all day to respond to everything. For all of the posts I've missed I look into all of them and see what the majority have in common.

 

[the grim lizard]

Why do people want Lucario so much? What's so great about him??

 

[PrinnyFlute]

Actually I have been reading everyone's posts. But I don't have all day to respond to everything. For all of the posts I've missed I look into all of them and see what the majority have in common.

I think, for the sake of discussion, it's a little more...constructive? To respond to the best arguments offered. The ones that actually, y'know, challenge your arguments. :/

(But you had time to do all this crazy reasoning about pokeball pokemon and not the actual character?)

Mr. Lizard: The same reason anybody wants ANYBODY in Brawl. We like him. Lucario supporters think he looks cool, thinks he is cool, and generally like a lot of his traits. You probably don't. So what's the big deal, agree to disagree, etc. I don't know about most people, but I'm willing to put my likes and dislikes aside to debate actual probabilities: All things considered, Lucario just seems likely. I REALLY REALLY want Laharl or a Prinny in the game, but you don't see me freaking out about how THEY TOTALLY WILL 'CUZ THEY'RE COOL.

 

[TheZizz]

Ok random person who knows NOTHING about Pokemon and / or anything please leave.

I obviously know more than nothing if I know who Geodude is.

But yes, I'm one of hundreds of thousands, probably millions, that haven't played pokemon since Red and Blue. Does that make me unqualified to say that Lucario is a bad choice for a character? Maybe if this were a pokemon game, but it isn't. If anything my casual aquaintance with the franchise offers me perspective that inwardly-focused pokemaniacs might lack.

What Mario fan worth his salt doesn't know who Iggy Koopa is? Does that mean he should have had priority over Bowser? Let's have the pokemon mainstays that everyone knows before we bring in pokemon number three-hundred and whatever. Does that not make sense? How is that not agreeable?

 

[the grim lizard]

Mr. Lizard: The same reason anybody wants ANYBODY in Brawl. We like him. Lucario supporters think he looks cool, thinks he is cool, and generally like a lot of his traits. You probably don't. So what's the big deal, agree to disagree, etc. I don't know about most people, but I'm willing to put my likes and dislikes aside to debate actual probabilities: All things considered, Lucario just seems likely. I REALLY REALLY want Laharl or a Prinny in the game, but you don't see me freaking out about how THEY TOTALLY WILL 'CUZ THEY'RE COOL.

That isn't true. People want characters who have been around for ages. People want characters who have been in a lot of games or who would have interesting movesets. Lucario hasn't been around that long; he hasn't been in that many games. And, he wouldn't have a moveset much different from say Fox or Falcon. So again, I ask you, why do people want him in so much.

And fyi to most of you people...I can guarantee you that anyone who doesn't play the most recent Pokemon hasn't heard of Lucario before coming here. Pokemon are Pokemon...any one that gets in is a rep. Most other series wouldn't care what character got in as long as it repped the series. What you fail to realize, prinny, is that with other characters we debate one series over another, whereas with Pokemon...it's just one over the other.

And he's really not that cool. I'll say it again: He's just Fox in a Jackel suit.

I obviously know more than nothing if I know who Geodude is.

But yes, I'm one of hundreds of thousands, probably millions, that haven't played pokemon since Red and Blue. Does that make me unqualified to say that Lucario is a bad choice for a character? Maybe if this were a pokemon game, but it isn't. If anything my casual aquaintance with the franchise offers me perspective that inwardly-focused pokemaniacs might lack.

What Mario fan worth his salt doesn't know who Iggy Koopa is? Does that mean he should have had priority over Bowser? Let's have the pokemon mainstays that everyone knows before we bring in pokemon number three-hundred and whatever. Does that not make sense? How is that not agreeable?

Lucario is #448 (yes, I looked it up)

...who's Iggy Koopa?? edit: oh yeah...koopaling guy

 

[PrinnyFlute]

I obviously know more than nothing if I know who Geodude is.

But yes, I'm one of hundreds of thousands, probably millions, that haven't played pokemon since Red and Blue. Does that make me unqualified to say that Lucario is a bad choice for a character? Maybe if this were a pokemon game, but it isn't. If anything my casual aquaintance with the franchise offers me perspective that inwardly-focused pokemaniacs might lack.

What Mario fan worth his salt doesn't know who Iggy Koopa is? Does that mean he should have had priority over Bowser? Let's have the pokemon mainstays that everyone knows before we bring in pokemon number three-hundred and whatever. Does that not make sense? How is that not agreeable?

I think the general argument here is that Lucario is the best of all worlds: Current fans like him, so they'd be pleased, and most non/previous/returning fans seems very receptive to him. Aside from a lot of people in this thread, heheh.

 

[Jackal478]

This thread cracks me up.

POKEMON THAT MOST PEOPLE LIKE, RESEMBLES A HUMAN, AND HAD A MAJOR ROLE IN A POKEMON MOVIE....or....

A turtle thats been around as long as Pikachu.

lol

 

[GaryCXJk]

What Mario fan worth his salt doesn't know who Iggy Koopa is? Does that mean he should have had priority over Bowser? Let's have the pokemon mainstays that everyone knows before we bring in pokemon number three-hundred and whatever. Does that not make sense? How is that not agreeable?

Iggy suffers the same fate the starter Pokemon have: you would actually choose one of the seven koopalings over the others. So no, Iggy Koopa has no solid chance to get in.

 

[the grim lizard]

I think the general argument here is that Lucario is the best of all worlds: Current fans like him, so they'd be pleased, and most non/previous/returning fans seems very receptive to him. Aside from a lot of people in this thread, heheh.

How can you be so wrong? What are you basing this on? Most people either love Lucario because they are Poke-fanatics, couldn't care less because they never were in the series, or don't want him because they only like (or know) 1st gen. Pokemon.

And he's not the best of all worlds. He's a fighting type which is the worst type because it brings nothing new to the table. I was indifferent at first, but I really would like a more original Pokemon...and your assuming that everyone loves Lucario other than sandman isn't helping.

 

[GaryCXJk]

*cough*Fighting / Steel*cough*

 

[the grim lizard]

Oh, my mistake...he has steel so that changes everything...

Give it up, he's basically Fox.

 

[_the_sandman_]

think, for the sake of discussion, it's a little more...constructive? To respond to the best arguments offered. The ones that actually, y'know, challenge your arguments. :/

(But you had time to do all this crazy reasoning about pokeball pokemon and not the actual character?)

Mr. Lizard: The same reason anybody wants ANYBODY in Brawl. We like him. Lucario supporters think he looks cool, thinks he is cool, and generally like a lot of his traits. You probably don't. So what's the big deal, agree to disagree, etc. I don't know about most people, but I'm willing to put my likes and dislikes aside to debate actual probabilities: All things considered, Lucario just seems likely. I REALLY REALLY want Laharl or a Prinny in the game, but you don't see me freaking out about how THEY TOTALLY WILL 'CUZ THEY'RE COOL.

Many responses are the same actually, no matter how indepth they are. But I'll give you a little something to think about, okay?

So its a fact that everyone likes him, which is way everyone wants him in Brawl. As mentioned before its a popularity contest, right?

(From here this comment isn't directed to you, but to everyone that says Lucario should be in the game because he is popular.)

Lets take a popular Pokemon character that has been in everyone's hearts since the very beginning. Lets take Snorlax for this example. It can be any popular pokemon (Dragonite, Blaziken, Meowth), but for me, I'm going to pick one of my personal favorites. But he isn't just one of my favorites, I'm sure everyone at some point in their lives have enjoyed Snorlax. If this game is a popularity contest, then a character like Snorlax would be a definite character for Brawl.

You guys think Lucario is popular now? Heh, well lets see him in a faceoff with a character like Snorlax in a popularity competition. Snorlax has been popular for a loooong time, and he still is popular today. Hes still one of the better Normal Pokemon out there. People that have left Pokemon still remember Snorlax, but have no idea who Lucario is. I know this because me and my friends never even heard of the guy until I came onto these boards. Even when the game was out I still didn't know about him.

Smashboards my have more Lucario fans, but the WORLD has more Snorlax fans. More Squirtle fans. More Meowth fans. More Dragonite, Alakazam, Mewtwo, Golem, Togepi, Typhlosion, and more Mew fans.

Everyone, EVERYONE wants to play smash bros. And when EVERYONE sees Lucario on that character select screen many of them won't even know who he is. They probably won't even bother to get the game because they outgrown it. They might even be a little disappointed that another old school character didn't show up.

But when EVERYONE sees Squirtle on that character screen, EVERYONE will recognize him. They'll all be excited to see him! They'll all remember that water starter that they have grown to love over the years of their childhood.

Why do you think Mr. Game and Watch is in the game. What about Ice Climbers? What about Pit? Well its because they were popular back in the day, and are still remembered NOW. They are still remembered TO THIS DAY even without the aid of Smash Bros.

If this game is a popularity contest, then Lucario has a lot of work to do!

 

[GaryCXJk]

Why do you think Mr. Game and Watch is in the game. What about Ice Climbers? What about Pit? Well its because they were popular back in the day, and are still remembered NOW. They are still remembered TO THIS DAY even without the aid of Smash Bros.

If this game is a popularity contest, then Lucario has a lot of work to do!

I actually wanted to make this point.

 

[the grim lizard]

I accept that starters have slim to no chance of being in, but I'd still rather have Poliwhirl or something rather than Lucario.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Oh, my mistake...he has steel so that changes everything...

Give it up, he's basically Fox.

Its funny how many Lucario fans say he is just like Fox. Not just here, but all over the boards. Well we mine as well make him like Fox, we already have Falco returning WITHOUT CHANGING AT ALL, and we can get rid of Krystal's staff and make her like Fox, and why not have a character exactly like Fox? Lets put Wolf in as well!

Lucario fans want him to be like Fox, that cracks me up! They don't realize how much they hurt their arguments when they say things like that.

I accept that starters have slim to no chance of being in, but I'd still rather have Poliwhirl or something rather than Lucario.

And anyone that is recognizable at this point would be great. Old gens all the way!

 

[Anders Kaiser]

What Mario fan worth his salt doesn't know who Iggy Koopa is? Does that mean he should have had priority over Bowser? Let's have the pokemon mainstays that everyone knows before we bring in pokemon number three-hundred and whatever. Does that not make sense? How is that not agreeable?

Iggy does not and should not have priority over Bowser. The last game he appeared in was a minor role in Superstar Saga, and between him and his six brothers and sister he's not all that unique.

Lucario, on the other hand, is a major marketing icon within a pokemon world that already had a bunch of marketing icons. Iggy Koopa does not have the starring role in a movie, and does not have his face plastered over all manner of pokemon merchandise, and does not hold a significant or unique role in any of the games he's appeared in. You're comparing a side character that hasn't had a showing in years to a very popular character that's known by everyone who does any amount of research into the 4th generation. The terms of your comparison don't match up at all.

I haven't seen the latest pokemon movie or anything, but according to a friend of mine that's very into pokemon stuff at the moment, Lucario does much more than most fighting types. People all over this thread have referred to him as the "Hadouken" pokemon, and if you can't agree that his aura attacks in combination with steel-related moves and more traditional fighting tactics would make for a perfectly acceptable moveset, then there's really no more point to debating this at all. Anti-Luc people will stay Anti-Luc, and Pro-Luc people will stay pro-Luc.

I've said before that I'm technically not a Lucario supporter, but I'm willing to admit that his popularity and unique status give him a high chance of appearing. That and most of the anti-Lucario arguments have been flimsy at best.

 

[the grim lizard]

Its funny how many Lucario fans say he is just like Fox. Not just here, but all over the boards. Well we mine as well make him like Fox, we already have Falco returning WITHOUT CHANGING AT ALL, and we can get rid of Krystal's staff and make her like Fox, and why not have a character exactly like Fox? Lets put Wolf in as well!

While we're at it, let's throw in Tails.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Ugh, Lucario is only popular NOW and on THESE BOARDS. And where do you guys see all of this merchandise? Don't tell me all of you are going to toy stores looking for these things. I mean back in the day every store was advertising Pokemon. Video stores, electronic stores, grocery stores, and even big stores like Wal-Mart!

I have never seen Lucario's face plastered onto a paper plate yet. I haven't seen his toys, his cups, or anything of the sort. Face it people, hes only popular on things like a forum site. He can't compare to the 1st gen's popularity.

 

[Conker1]

I would be much happier if Squirtle(or any first gen pokemon) got in over Lucario

I didn't know who Lucario was until I came to this forum. No one besides huge Pokemon fans know who he is.

 

[TheZizz]

Iggy does not and should not have priority over Bowser. The last game he appeared in was a minor role in Superstar Saga, and between him and his six brothers and sister he's not all that unique.

Lucario, on the other hand, is a major marketing icon within a pokemon world that already had a bunch of marketing icons. Iggy Koopa does not have the starring role in a movie, and does not have his face plastered over all manner of pokemon merchandise, and does not hold a significant or unique role in any of the games he's appeared in. You're comparing a side character that hasn't had a showing in years to a very popular character that's known by everyone who does any amount of research into the 4th generation. The terms of your comparison don't match up at all.

I haven't seen the latest pokemon movie or anything, but according to a friend of mine that's very into pokemon stuff at the moment, Lucario does much more than most fighting types. People all over this thread have referred to him as the "Hadouken" pokemon, and if you can't agree that his aura attacks in combination with steel-related moves and more traditional fighting tactics would make for a perfectly acceptable moveset, then there's really no more point to debating this at all. Anti-Luc people will stay Anti-Luc, and Pro-Luc people will stay pro-Luc.

I've said before that I'm technically not a Lucario supporter, but I'm willing to admit that his popularity and unique status give him a high chance of appearing. That and most of the anti-Lucario arguments have been flimsy at best.

What Lucario merchandise? I've never seen him in my life.

To avid fans of pokemon Lucario may be no Iggy. But for the general audience, the kind that wouldn't know the first thing about either character I think my comparison remains valid. If you remain dissatisfied with it then I could easily come up with another like Geno.

And besides all that, the fact that I would have to do any sort of research in the first place kind of validates what I'm saying.

 

[Private Zulen]

Squirtle's not getting in Brawl, in the event you actually think he has a chance. If Sakurai did that, he'd most likely have to put in Charmander and Bulbasaur as well, no different than a child in the first grade having to bring Brownies for the whole class when he only wants to give a certain selection brownies.

Anyway, this is pathetic. The way these Lucario fans scramble for evidence, it's almost like I could go make a "Suicune for Brawl" thread, honestly thinking to myself that Suicune, that enormous dog of all things is going to be a playable character. Than I'd say stuff like "Suicune is a popular Pokemon! He was in the GSC opening, okay? There's no reason he shouldn't be in Brawl!". If Lucario fans are this desperate to have their different colored Fox, then I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai stuffed Lucario into the roster just to save his own life.

 

[the grim lizard]

character that's known by everyone who does any amount of research into the 4th generation.

QFT

Like zizz said, having to do research to know who someone is =/= popular.

 

[Legolastom]

The anti-Lucario folks continue to play the nostalgia card to talk down about Luc and support more 1st gen characters like Meowth, Squirtle, etc., and I think I'm finally figuring out why that argument's bugging me so much. That being that the logic is backwards.

It finally occurred to me when Sandman kept referring to Luc as a "fad character," who would never live up the recognizability of someone like Squirtle. Everybody knew the first gen pokemon because they were plastered on figurines, trading cards, television shows, and practically every kid in the country was into it. Of course now Pokemon is still a popular franchise, but it's not the worldwide craze that it was at the height of Red and Blue's popularity. Hell, even Sandman's dad knew Charizard, as well as all of his friends who don't play pokemon anymore. But lets pull back and take a look at what we're really describing here.

What do people normally call something that gains massive national attention only to have that spotlight fall out of the mainstream shortly after? Correct, the answer is A FAD.

Sandman, you and your friends were into the first generation of pokemon, but your interest has trailed off since then. Now you didn't even recognize THE most notable pokemon of the current generation, like many mainstream folks. You're the one promoting a fad, granted you're pulling for a whole generation and not just one character, but it's the truth of the matter as I see it. As other people have said, your friends and your dad can't be considered pokemon fans if they haven't been paying attention to the franchise in recent years. Don't feel bad about it--I was roped into the early fad as well. I had Red and Silver, but then my interest died out until Diamond came out. But during the time I wasn't paying any attention to the franchise, I didn't consider myself a fan, so I find it odd that you still do.

Let's also not forget that the basis of inclusion in Smash Brothers it not based on mainstream mindshare, but rather prominence, popularity, and impact within the game series the character represents. Within the most recent pokemon game (again, over 10 million sold), Lucario is quite possibly the most iconic and recognizable character. So does this mean that only pokemon that are literally known by everyone and their dad should be playable in the game? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds when applied to other franchises? Sure, add Mario, everybody knows who he is. Luigi and Bowser, too. What? Meta Knight? No, he hasn't even been in every Kirby game, so not everybody knows who he is. Ridley? My friends who haven't played Metroid don't know who he is, so he's not popular enough to be in either. For that matter, not everybody even knows much about the Metroid series, so take Samus out too. Sheik didn't appear when the Zelda series was most popular, so throw them out too. Never heard of Ness, Captain Falcon or Marth, get them the hell out of this game.

The entire Smash Brothers roster would be gutted. We wouldn't have a single WTF character in the game. The majority of games wouldn't even be represented. Sakurai seems to generally be looking at the more recent activities of characters (Twilight Princess models, Wario's WarioWare model), and it would be nothing short of moronic to ignore the 4th gen's current massive fanbase in favor of adding additional characters from an already-represented generation to appease a group of nostalgiac fad-followers that haven't cared about the franchise for over 10 years.

FANBASE, FANBASE, FANBASE!

Lucario has a much bigger fanbase, 10 times bigger at least=competiting with Dedede, Diddy Kong, Megaman, and Ridley. Lucario has reconizabilitiy, and the new Pokemon games I can't stop seeing. Honestly, I went to see The Simpson's Movie, and I saw people playing D/P, from ages 8 to ages 25 or something...njk. I've seen those games more than I ever saw all the other 3 gens combined. In fact, D/P is one of the best selling games of all-time in Japan, surpassing all other Pokemon games!

Now, I have 5 points that judges whether a character is worthy of being in Brawl or not: Reconizability [amongst gamers], Fanbase, pro-X character in Brawl, the character's importance, and is it more desired than not.

Reconizability: Lucario is the most popular Pokemon of that gen. There, it has reconizabilitiy. It passes with flying coloors. 8/10

Fanbase: Lucario is the most popular 4th gen Pokemon. 10/10

SSBB pro-Lucario fanbse: Is huge!!!! Seriously, Lucario is wanted far more than basically any other Pokemon. In fact, I'd say that if you took away Blazekein as a possible candidate, it is more wanted than all the other Pokemon competitiors [competiting for a spot in SSBB] combined. Massive fanbase, up there with the biggest! 10/10

Lucario's Importance: Most popular Pokemon in the 4th gen of Pokemon, has a moive, etc. This usually where some characters lack, and Lucario is one of them. 4/10

Is Lucario more wanted than not wanted in SSBB???: Yes, no doubt. Check the fanbase, the pro-Lucario fanbase is probably well over 10 times larger than the con-Lucario fanbase. 10/10

8
10
10
4
10
_____
42/50= 84%. Passes and makes it into Brawl easily.

Also, Sqirtle lacks fanbase, and importance [even more so than Lucario]. So this arguement isn't a good one, to say the least of things. Blastoise may be my favorite Pokemon, but I doubt we'll be playing as Blastoise, or any of it's pre-evolutions anytime soon in SSB. But don't worry, the Pokeball is still a likely way for Squirtle to make a appearance, along with a possible trophy [return]. But the reasons why Lucario shouldn't be in Brawl don't hold up, and aren't that good.

Squirtle lacks fanbase, there I said it, and not being able to imagine Lucario's moveset is the same thing with the Ridley's hieght arguement. Ridley was smaller than Samus in Melee's opening, and looking at Lucario's D/P moveset, there are many distinct, great, and wonderous possibilities. Your lack of vision doesn't effect Lucario's chances at all. Squirtle has no fanbase at all compared to Lucario, you fail.

Plus his moveset, wat would it be=??? Why not just make Blastoise instead, there would be a moveset, f*** Squirtle! Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Hydro Pump, that super Blastoise-only water attack, Blizzard, Surf, Ice Beam, withdraw, etc. etc. etc. Now that would rock, for sure, and would be super original! But that isn't going to happe until hell freezes over, George Cleuney becomes president of the United States, and Broly is confirmed in Brawl!

I'm a mercenary, what can I say=??? When I make a $50 bet that Lucario is in Brawl, I go from moderate pro-Lucario in Brawl, to extremist! YAE money!!!! XD

-Johnknight1

You ignorant fools (Not the people in the quote).

 

[Princess Diana]

Lol, i can't believe i haven't noticed this thread... First of all... I absolutely HATE lucario... >__>; I don't know why everyone wants him in brawl... He's a big overrated fox thing... Lol, he's not even that good in battle cause his speed sucks compared to other pokemon and in a speed dominated game, coupled with bad defenses he's going to go out pretty quickly...

Lol anyway I doubt that (if jigglypuff and mewtwo return) they will add another kanto pokemon... Even if they're more popular than the newer pokemon... Also why doesn't anyone ever suggest pokemon like Munchlax or Mime Jr? Pokemon is a game for kids and i don't see why you have to pick a pokemon that is 'feirce' looking. If pokemon is going to be represented in brawl correctly I would like to see pokemon that are cute.

Anywho... Mime Jr. for brawl!

Also i bet their's going to be alot more pokemon in pokeballs since diamond/pearl added alot of legendaries... Something that's troubling though... Will arcues and shaymin be in a pokeball? Those pokemon have not been confirmed yet to the public and are only available by hacking... In fact shaymin won't even be confirmed for another year at least and who knows about arcues... And darkrai hasn't even been confirmed outside of japan at the moment...

 

[the grim lizard]

Lucario has a bigger fanbase than Ridley or Diddy, eh? Is that why their threads have over 4k and 3k posts, respectively, while Lucario's has less than 1000??

 

[Anders Kaiser]

I'll admit that, to the general public, many of the first generation pokemon are probably more recognizable, because the franchise as a whole was more mainstream then. Earlier in this thread I pretty much stated that the whole first blitz of Pokemon stuff could be considered a fad. Anybody that's still paying attention to Pokemon, who didn't drop out after the initial fad phase, would know who Lucario is.

It's a nice number, so I'll bring it up again. 10 million units sold. That's 10 million people that will recognize Lucario, which is already more than a lot of the characters. Certainly more than characters like the Ice Climbers, Marth, Ike, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, etc etc. And since everybody seems to be bringing back the whole "more people in the general population know Squirtle" thing despite the fact that I've already offered a counter to it, I suppose it bears repeating:

EDIT: Or not, seeing as Legolastom just quoted my line a few posts above.

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea but they will use that argument again.

And to the people that think he is not Popular or anything... do you know how many Bought the games,Watched the movie and bought the merchandise...? NO? o you do? and... o right he still isn't know is he? right yhea whatever you say!

And to the Megadio guy...

Lol yhea Lucario is cool lol he is a good sweeper lol has high attack rating an-lol and high speed lol he is-lol isnt actually bad lol so stop using lol so much like a lol weir-lol weirdo.

But anyways more seriously finally PC PKMN 1: Pika 2: Jig's 3 Lucario 4: Mewtwo... maybe. 5: (If there is which there might be) You decide!.

But seriously there are already 2 1st gen PKMN why the F*** do you want more!?

 

[Anders Kaiser]

Because apparently everything has to be retro. That's why Ike was confirmed today. That's why Wario is in his WarioWare outfit and why all the Zelda characters are modeled after TP.

 

[the grim lizard]

It's a nice number, so I'll bring it up again. 10 million units sold. That's 10 million people that will recognize Lucario, which is already more than a lot of the characters. Certainly more than characters like the Ice Climbers, Marth, Ike, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, etc etc. And since everybody seems to be bringing back the whole "more people in the general population know Squirtle" thing despite the fact that I've already offered a counter to it, I suppose it bears repeating:

First, I hate when people compare any potential character to a retro. They are out of their league. Retros are retro; they have been around forever. Lucario can't touch anyone like Pit or ICs because they've been around for 20 years; he's been around for like two.

Also, 10 million really isn't that much, honestly, when you think about the entire Pokemon series selling 164 million, not to mention Mario and Zelda's respective 168 and 52 million. And if you really wanna go by game sales to show that a character is "recognizable" and "popular" and that they should be in because of that...Waluigi should be in. Between Mario sports and Party games, he's not only been in more games than Lucario, but he's also helped Nintendo sell a lot more games than Lucario. MP8 alone sold 100,000, you throw in Mario Party 3-7 in there, plus Baseball, Strikers, Tennis, etc. etc...and he beats out Lucario no contest.

 

[Princess Diana]

Yhea but they will use that argument again.

And to the people that think he is not Popular or anything... do you know how many Bought the games,Watched the movie and bought the merchandise...? NO? o you do? and... o right he still isn't know is he? right yhea whatever you say!

And to the Megadio guy...

Lol yhea Lucario is cool lol he is a good sweeper lol has high attack rating an-lol and high speed lol he is-lol isnt actually bad lol so stop using lol so much like a lol weir-lol weirdo.

But anyways more seriously finally PC PKMN 1: Pika 2: Jig's 3 Lucario 4: Mewtwo... maybe. 5: (If there is which there might be) You decide!.

But seriously there are already 2 1st gen PKMN why the F*** do you want more!?

>_>; .... lol

I only said lol 3 times! >:O

Also lucario sucks! He gets outsped by nearly everything that has any offensive power and almost everything that is slower than him can take all his hits and then ko him back...

90 speed might seem fast but in the long run its not fast enough... The only thing Lucario is good at is using endure and reversal because he is immune to sandstorm and then Dusknoir ko's him with shadow sneak... So no he's not actually go-lol-od...

 

[Stryks]

OMFG I started playing strikers and the mother of all n00bs arrives...

ok let me put it this way:
did squirtle stared in a movie??
does he have a huge fanbase?
is he unique?
and why add HIM and not the NEWEST water starter?
also blastoise is ALREADY a pokeball pkmn, why add his weakest preevolve form in THE greatest All star game of all time?!

god ur lucky im on my wii

 

[the grim lizard]

lol

I don't necessarily support Squirtle or only 1st gen...I just don't want a Pokemon who is basically exactly like Fox with a Shadow Ball.