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The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

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ClarkJables

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wario dk and yoshi aren't mario series characters. wario was in only one mario adventure game, and then he went off and did a carear on his own. same thing with dk, and yoshi has yoshi's island

and i could see m2 getting cut
 

the grim lizard

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I really don't think he will. I read something about Sakurai liking him or something...bah...I should try to find that again...
 

Black/Light

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Mario's Forward and final smashes say Sakurai is more flexible than that.
I wouldn't expect some "omgz!!! Soo different!!!" Lucario to walk into brawl compared to the other fighters in smash. We got characters for his style. . .:ohwell:
(And Mario's final smash is a super fire ball attack which is a extention of his B move. . .)
Lucario is Fox in a Jackel suit. That's it.
I concur.

^^^And M2 was supposed to be in SB64 like Browser so he aint getting cut if they waited so long to get him in.
 

ClarkJables

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well if mario and pokemon get 6, zelda and metroid can get 4(counting zamus), dk and earthbound can get 2, and wario, yoshi, and f-zero get 1. thats 27 leaving at least 13 more series in brawl, assuming we get only 40 characters
 

the grim lizard

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Dang...And Kirby and SF get none, eh?

That's harsh on the DK series, considering it sells more than Metroid, and EB hasn't been around in ages...
 

the grim lizard

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Trust me, it's not hard to have 40 characters and get all of the deserving characters in. I did it being very conservative and left the number of Mario reps for last, there were 8 spots remaining for Mario. Clearly that won't happen, so assume he has 5 (that's not including Yoshi, DK, or Wario), which would be one newcomer.

Personally, I think there will be more than 40, but looking at the (conservative) list I have with less than 40, I'm already satisfied. This means at least 3-5 characters we kinda want but didn't really think they had much of a shot...in other words, we will get several unexpected, surprise-ish characters. I really think we have nothing to worry about.
 

Whisk

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Well if you ask me, I think Pokemon will have about 5 characters, but that's just my guess. Take a look at the Mario and Zelda series in Melee. Mario series had 6 characters and Zelda series had 5 (Yes, Sheik was counted as a character by Nintendo). So now lets increase those 3 series by one character each, Mario would have 7, Zelda would have 6, and Pokemon would have 5. Seems fair right, being that they're the most talked about/popular series. I'm including Yoshi and Wario for the Mario series, by the way, cause to me, they're still part of the Mario world. Hopefully Sakurai will get at least 40 characters in, then everyone can be happy. Why not broaden the Smash horizons? Look at the DBZ fighting games, they apparently have over 100 characters. XD
 

the grim lizard

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Wario and Yoshi aren't part of Mario, but that really doesn't make a difference in all of this...

DBZ fighting games suck, btw...
 

Johnknight1

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After reading this I hope Lucario is in Brawl just to piss all you guys off.
^^^^ Best post ever! Along with the grim lizard's post above me! XD

DBZ games suck...150 characters, and only 5 are actually useable. That is f***ing lame, plus the gameplay itself is s***, and there are like 3 stages, and they all suck! XD Show me a tourney scene, because I doubt anyone is willing to play those games proffessionally, ever. Seriosuly, those games suck. Expect 45 or so characters, somewhere around there! ;)
 

Whisk

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Wario and Yoshi aren't part of Mario, but that really doesn't make a difference in all of this...

DBZ fighting games suck, btw...
Never played the DBZ games either (don't care for the series), just giving the info I've heard for an example of how many characters any fighting game could possibly have...
 

ClarkJables

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Dang...And Kirby and SF get none, eh?

That's harsh on the DK series, considering it sells more than Metroid, and EB hasn't been around in ages...

i was doing bull**** math, but mainly it was to suggest that pokemon and mario series both get 6 characters instead of 5
 

GaryCXJk

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I think Nintendo fans wouldn't be satisfied even if there were OVER 9000 characters playable.
 

ClarkJables

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i would be. you would never be able to play all of those characters, it would take infinity years to make however...
 

Bassoonist

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Over 9000? That's that stupid DBZ joke isn't it? >_>

9000 characters would be way overdoing it... Are there even that many Nintendo characters?
 

Hiemie

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I simply think Lucario is an ugly design. My opinion isn't changing the output of the game. Besides, I swore the pokemon chosen for SSB and SSBM were simply from movie and anime popularity. I recall in the games (Besides yellow) that Pikachu, Pichu, and Jigglypuff are generally not important or entirely spectacular. So, who's popular in the anime right now? I unfortunately think it's that really ugly pokemon, Lucario. I could likely go into a lecture on what Pokemon I do and don't think are well designed, but that's not important.

Personally, I think Meowth should be in Brawl because of Anime popularity. I don't entirely know if he is, because I'm not the entirety of the Japanese Populous. Anyone else here fit that criteria? Anyone here Sakurai?

This topic has gotten really off topic. I should start warning people or something. Do you guys care to get back on topic and not simply resort to short line insults and calling people ******* or whatever you guys do?
 

Hiemie

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I'm against Lucario, but that's merely my opinion on his design. I kinda think the character is boring. I'm not entirely fond of the D/P generation designs although some are simply wonderful, like Rotom and the Balloon looking one with the patch for a mouth, not that I think they deserve to be in Brawl. If there's nothing to say in the topic, about the topic, simply don't post in it.

Also, Squirtle is cute as a button.
 

the grim lizard

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I agree with Hiemie.

In case anyone was wondering what my numbers were for the under 40:

Mario (5); Zelda (4); Pokemon (4); Metroid (3); Kirby (3); SF (3); DK (2); EB (1); F-Zero (1); FE (2); Yoshi (1); New series (3); Retro series (3); 3rd parties (3)

That's a conservative estimate and is only 38, and it still includes all popular choices. You could easily fit in some of "less likely" ones in there. I still think you'll get over 40.
 

Kunitsuna

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the grim lizard said:
Mario (5); Zelda (4); Pokemon (4); Metroid (3); Kirby (3); SF (3); DK (2); EB (1); Yoshi (1); New series (3); Retro series (3); 3rd parties (3)
Needs moar Fire Emblem?
 

the grim lizard

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oops...I forgot to put that. add two for them, that's still 38

Bah...I had all of those, but when I condensed it from a list to a line...I deleted a few, apparently. Anyway, it's still under 40.

edit: Yoshi was already there.
 

Grimwolf

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I agree with Hiemie.

In case anyone was wondering what my numbers were for the under 40:

Mario (5); Zelda (4); Pokemon (4); Metroid (3); Kirby (3); SF (3); DK (2); EB (1); F-Zero (1); FE (2); Yoshi (1); New series (3); Retro series (3); 3rd parties (3)

That's a conservative estimate and is only 38, and it still includes all popular choices. You could easily fit in some of "less likely" ones in there. I still think you'll get over 40.
You didn't include Fire Emblem, and I think more likely for Metroid is only 2, but that's me (unless you cont Zamus as separate, then I'd say 3).
 

Pieman0920

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If you count Zamus as a seperate character, then Zelda has definatly gone down, instead of up. (Even if Sheik returned) :O

I don't think any series is going down any, unless not included at all.
 

the grim lizard

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Mario (5); Zelda (4); Pokemon (4); Metroid (3); Kirby (3); SF (3); DK (2); EB (1); F-Zero (1); FE (2); Yoshi (1); New series (3); Retro series (3); 3rd parties (3)
Anyway, clearly they could add another Zelda, another DK or another Metroid, another F-Zero or another EB, another Pokemon, another SF or FE, and another retro or 3rd party and we get 44, which is still likely.

@Pieman...as I said, this was conservative, or at least fairly conservative.

In my personal opinion, 50 characters would get everyone in that should be in, and some of those are kinda iffy; so...having a number between 40 and 50 will get us somewhere between getting the bare essentials of newcomers in and having everyone in who should get in.
 

_the_sandman_

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Alright everyone, I'm back again. And I should be here for most of the night.

Now lets get to the first issue I've been seeing for the past few pages. It seems like everyone is getting confused about what franchise should be recognized. Not just the pokemon franchise and its multiple generations, but the other Nintendo franchises as well. Lets jump into the Pokemon problem first.


Pokemon, for the most part, is broken into four parts.
1. Blue/Red
2. Silver/Gold
3. Sapphire/Ruby
4. Diamond/Pearl

Now lets look at how many Smash Bros games there are
1. Super Smash Bros. 64
2. Super Smash Bros. Melee
3. Super Smash Bros Brawl

Anyone notice that there are 4 Pokemon gens and 3 Smash gens? This does cause a problem when decided which Pokemon should appear, now take a look.

1. Blue/Red - SSB64
2. Silver Gold - Melee
3. Sapphire/Ruby - Brawl
4. Diamond/Pearl............

The each Smash has represented a certain Pokemon generation in some form. Mostly by items of course, but the second game introduced many Pokemon from the S/G generation. Seeing that Groudon and Deoxyx are part of the 3rd gen, I think its safe to say Sakurai will represent the 3rd gen pokemon mostly. If you had both 3rd and 4th gens appearing, then you would have WAY too many pokemon in the game. Not just as playable characters, but in the pokeball as well. So to eliminate this problem he most likely will go in order for the pokemon gens.


Now for the Nintendo franchise issue, which is the issue that makes the most sense to me. Only so many characters can represent a certain franchise. Now everyone is content with Pit being the only character representing the Kid Icarus games, and everyone is fine with only one Mr. Game and Watch. But some series are currently more popular and have many more characters. Lets take a look at Starfox. Two or three Starfox characters are enough to represent the statfox franchise. Having six would just be way too much.

Lets look at Mario now. He is the main mascot for Nintendo, and most likely the most important character in Nintendo history (though Mr. G&W was the first). Mario should have the most characters on his franchise team since he is so important to Nintendo.

Lets forget about....Bowser Jr, Waluigi, Daisy, and all of those other rejects. Lets focus on the MAIN Mario characters for now.

The Mario team has 4 characters. Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser.
Pokemon will probably have 4 as well. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and ????

I hope I only need to say this once. And if anyone disagrees then you must be delusional. The Pokemon team should not....no.... can not surpass the Mario team in numbers. Maybe equal in roster amounts, but it can never pass up Mario. Pokemon may be great, but it can't compare to Mario.

Saying that, as well as all of my other posts, I think it should be more clear now about Lucario not appearing in Brawl as a playable character. Lets make a list.

- He comes from a game with many elemental skills. Since he is a fighting type, this choice would be disappointing since Sakurai can pick a water, fire, or grass character.
- Sakurai needs to represent the 3rd gen Pokemon before jumping into the 4th. The 3rd gen needs to be rightfully shown in Brawl.
- Looks aren't everything, but Lucario looks like a mess. His head looks like he has a fake wig on it, and he has a goofy spike on his chest. Not to mention the color and pattern scheme.
- The game has only been out for months. It doesn't have the seniority like the other Pokemon games have.
- If Sakurai had to pick one character out of every Pokemon, he would probably go for the one with the most personality. The style Brawl is in is meant to be more fun than Melee. That's why Wario is so wacky, that's why Fox's head got much more awkward, that's why Donkey Kong plays the drums for his final. If you want a serious character, look into Metal Gear or Metroid, Pokemon was meant to have silly characters.
- Everyone can recognize the 1st gen pokemon, so why not have a memorable character appear in Brawl?
 

ClarkJables

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true dat sandman, but i am pretty sure that the mario series will get 6 reps, and if that is so then pokemon can get 6 reps
 

_the_sandman_

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I'm not sure if Mario will have 6 reps. The main four are enough for me. I'd rather see Ray or King Dedede show up in Brawl instead of Toad.

I mean... Toad is great and all but he really doesn't do much for Mario. He can easliy be left out. Same goes with every other Mario character. Besides I don't think Sakurai wants to overkill a series, look how he prevented other Kirby characters from getting into Melee.

If there are 40 character, and 5 are Pokemon then that would be 1/8 of the roster! Thats too much representation for one series in my opinion.
 
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