The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[_the_sandman_]

What's the deal with the whole "Lucario can make an energy sphere attack". Listen, charging up a ball of energy isn't that creative at this point.

Samus has the Charge Beam
Mewtwo has Shadow Ball
If Megaman or Ray show up they might have a charging energy attack as well.

So... you're saying that a character with ALL fighting attacks, can be more unique by having a projectile other various characters have. Seriously guys, Lucario really can't provide that much of a unique moveset. Go look at the Lucario Shrine, most of his moves there come from other characters. Notice how all of Squirtle's attacks are unique? I could have given him Skull Bash like Pikachu, but I decided to be a bit more unique so I gave him Water Gun.

Lucario is a boring character if he were to be playable. We already have swift characters like Sheik and Fox. We already have energy filled characters like Samus and Pikachu. We already have "Steel" attacks with Link and Ike. We already have fighters like DK and Mario. Lucario can't provide anything new to the roster at this point, so why not have a Pokemon show up that can create something new?

Water, Grass, and Poison are the few of many examples of Pokemon types that can provide more unique abilities that a Fighting Pokemon can't. Lucario is just as exciting as a Machoke would be, which would be very dull for Smash Bros.

 

[PitIcarus]

You are comparing Lucario who is psychic and able to control Aura...to Machoke?

 

[Circus]

What's the deal with the whole "Lucario can make an energy sphere attack". Listen, charging up a ball of energy isn't that creative at this point.

Samus has the Charge Beam
Mewtwo has Shadow Ball
If Megaman or Ray show up they might have a charging energy attack as well.

So... you're saying that a character with ALL fighting attacks, can be more unique by having a projectile other various characters have. Seriously guys, Lucario really can't provide that much of a unique moveset. Go look at the Lucario Shrine, most of his moves there come from other characters. Notice how all of Squirtle's attacks are unique? I could have given him Skull Bash like Pikachu, but I decided to be a bit more unique so I gave him Water Gun.

Lucario is a boring character if he were to be playable. We already have swift characters like Sheik and Fox. We already have energy filled characters like Samus and Pikachu. We already have "Steel" attacks with Link and Ike. We already have fighters like DK and Mario. Lucario can't provide anything new to the roster at this point, so why not have a Pokemon show up that can create something new?

Water, Grass, and Poison are the few of many examples of Pokemon types that can provide more unique abilities that a Fighting Pokemon can't. Lucario is just as exciting as a Machoke would be, which would be very dull for Smash Bros.

Ugh. This is rather frusterating. . . .

Does ANYONE bother reading PrinnyFlute's posts? (That's rhetorical. I know most people read them, they just don't counter them well)

He, in particular, has already explained why something like water gun isn't any more unique than another projectile. And he gave several examples of how Aura Sphere could work differently from things such as Mewtwo's shadowball. He's killed this topic about 900 times, but people just keep repeating the same points over and over again, as if nothing was said at all.

We're going in circles here.

 

[Legolastom]

Yhea thats what pisses me off... and when he said Water gun after this long argument thats just an example of how he doesn't listen.

 

[iankobe]

What's the deal with the whole "Lucario can make an energy sphere attack". Listen, charging up a ball of energy isn't that creative at this point.

Samus has the Charge Beam
Mewtwo has Shadow Ball
If Megaman or Ray show up they might have a charging energy attack as well.

So... you're saying that a character with ALL fighting attacks, can be more unique by having a projectile other various characters have. Seriously guys, Lucario really can't provide that much of a unique moveset. Go look at the Lucario Shrine, most of his moves there come from other characters. Notice how all of Squirtle's attacks are unique? I could have given him Skull Bash like Pikachu, but I decided to be a bit more unique so I gave him Water Gun.

Lucario is a boring character if he were to be playable. We already have swift characters like Sheik and Fox. We already have energy filled characters like Samus and Pikachu. We already have "Steel" attacks with Link and Ike. We already have fighters like DK and Mario. Lucario can't provide anything new to the roster at this point, so why not have a Pokemon show up that can create something new?

Water, Grass, and Poison are the few of many examples of Pokemon types that can provide more unique abilities that a Fighting Pokemon can't. Lucario is just as exciting as a Machoke would be, which would be very dull for Smash Bros.

After all that reading from your posts, all I can see is that you're against Lucario JUST because he ISN'T "Unique" enough and I totally disagree with you. Look, I agree with your lil fighter vs fighter theory (mario vs Link, G&W vs ICs), but smash is ALSO a game where all the success of Nintendo meets up and fight. Lucario, being the latest pokemon movie, one of the MOST "unique" pokemon in D&P, does not lack any potential with being a playable character in brawl. The point is not how BORING a character can be. It is how they're actually in the game. It doesn't even matter if a character is boring or not. Heck, look at Zelda. Wtheck? All you do with her is Bair and Fair. -____- what can possibly be more "boring" than that? You tell me.

You should really open up your mind a little bit more if you STILL think Lucario does NOT fit in Brawl. Remember, this is EVERYBODY's Game. Not only yours. Statistically more people want Lucario than people who doesn't globally. You gotta think of the people in Japan also. Do you even know how big Lucario's impact in the Pokemon franchise now-a-days?! Lucario is MORE than just an ordinary pokemon. Just compare it to other fighting/steel pokemon. If you can find a better replacement than Lucario's type. Maybe I'll start agreeing with you.

Open up your mind.

 

[PitIcarus]

Well anyone who argues Lucario isn't unique enough but champions Squirtle, is clearly just making **** up as he goes.

Yes squirtle...the 1st gen 1st evolution pokemon. Not only is the 3rd best fighter in his evolution, he is isn't even the strongest turtle in the game

 

[TheRandomGuy]

Well given the right moves he can own a Tertera (forgive the spelling I haven't played in a month) And he can definitly beat a Torkal.

 

[PitIcarus]

Well given the right moves he can own a Tertera (forgive the spelling I haven't played in a month) And he can definitly beat a Torkal.

turtwig could WTFPWN yo squirtle son!

 

[the grim lizard]

Steel-type: They usually possess high Defense and sport a very large amount of resistances, but have low Speed and average Special Defense.

Sounds like a real blast character to play as...can't wait! :bigthumbu

"steel...STEEELLL!!111"

 

[PrinnyFlute]

Sounds like a real blast character to play as...can't wait! :bigthumbu

"steel...STEEELLL!!111"

I KNOW you're being sarcastic. And I don't think Lucario is going to fit that bill anyway. But what's wrong with slow, high def fighters? All hail Zangief!

 

[Stryks]

- Characters like Mario and Link have a burden because of the whole "good guy vs bad guy" kind of thing. Not to mention they've been around so long that it wouldn't be a trouble at all to give them motivation to fight.

-Characters like Samus or C. Falcon would be in the game for the bounty. Or perhaps some type of rivalry?

-Characters like Pikachu and Kirby are just happy go lucky. They're in it for the adventure!

- Characters like Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf are in it for villainous reasons.

So now lets look at Lucario again. Exactly what would his motivation be? He hates humans. He hasn't been around long enough to have that much personality from his games He isn't exactly that motivated to do anything. So exactly what would his reason to fight be?

And if any of you say he needs to revive a tree. Let me first say before you announce this terrible idea to me, that this reason to fight is probably the worst reasons you could come up with. I know you guys would say this just because of the movie.

Only Yoshi is allowed to save trees, well.... not a normal tree, its a Super Happy Tree. Its necessary for both happiness and fruit!

Lets review our list again.
1.- - Lucario doesn't have seniority or popularity like the first gen pokemon have.
2.- - Has bland elemental attacks, even though Pokemon has many exciting ones.
3.- - People want him because he looks like Fox/Sheik.
4.- - Sakurai has been making this game long before Pokemon P+D was released.
5.- - The only reason people first suggested him was because of a movie.
6.- - Even today, thousands of smash bros fans do not know who he is.
and now....
7.- - He probably wouldn't have a good storyline and character developement for Adventure Mode.

8.- - We can't forget my favorite reason though! He looks ridiculous! Seriously people... HE HAS A SPIKE STICKING OUT OF HIS CHEST! And that wig? Psh, terrible! What's his Final going to be? Hug of death? Smelly wig hair?

Ugh, this guy is getting worse and worse by the day.....

OMFG I cant believe this:

1st off samus aint gonna be some character that goes for the bounty of others, she SAVES planet, or did anyone missed mp1 and 2? shes like link and mario, thye save those in need...

Lucario can, like maybe pit will, be warned about the evil coming, and must help protect the pokemon or whatever lifeform there are in the world... what could squirtle do? OMG SQUIRTLE MARIOS ON FIRE SAVE HIM!!... yeah...

1.- Dude OBVIOUSLY the 1st gen is more popular, r did you NOT see the merchandise it was selling like hell back in the days? today the pokemon franchise aint as popular, but theyre NOT gonna add some pre eviolve form turtle to be in a roster of all stars? I ask you and Motha f'king respond: Why not raticate? charmender? cyndaquil? mudkip (hes popular for some reason)? why not hitmochand or hitmonlee? they can have an easier to make moveset, and hes a 1st gen! win win! [/sarcasm]
Thing is HE DOES HAVE A FANBASE, He has one in japan, tough not big, im SURE its bigger right now than squirtles...

2.- OMG squirtle uses water to take down pit in an epic battle of death!.... yeah psychic and that attack lucario uses in the movie is way better... right...

3.- OMFG JUST ONE PERSON SAID HE LOOKS SIMILAIR LIKE HIM, AND HES A FREAKING ******, GO TO THE LUCARIO THREAD AND SEE!

4.- ... that doesnt make sense you ******, READ THIS: D&P came out before brawl rite? so did LOZ TP, and we have TP LINK, bridge of eldin, king bulbin and TP zelda in there, and the game was in development before and during brawls development, JUST LIKE IN D&P OMG U FAIL!!

5.- Pokemon in movies: are legendary or have more importance than others, like IDK mewtwo, mew, celebi, lugia, deoxys, suicune, entei, unown, etc. I hardly believe we'll have: SHELL SHOCK! THE SQUIRTLE MOVIE! THE MOVIE YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE 10 **** YEARS AFTER THE POKEMON SERIES DEBUTED!!

6.- Yeah since most of us are 16+ years old, im sure we'll buy a game that's aimed for children, oh no dad dont buy me god of war 2, buy me pokemon diamond!

7.- OMG and squirtle would?! wtf can squirtle do that can save the world of smash bros and that lucario cant if not better? Lucario can sense things from far away, he can use that t warn our heroes, and also.. .HE CAN TALK! no BS squirtle ssquirt squirtle!! whats thats squirtle? a girl fell into a well?!

8.- OMG A BLUE TURTLE LETS ADD HIM IN BRAWL!
Really a yellow rat? a pink ballon monster? a giant turtle with canons coming of of his SHELL?! WTF?!

 

[Legolastom]

*Golf claps*

Ok lets wait for Sandmans response (Cant get that song outta my head!! Thanks a lot Stryk's!)

But seriously Lucario has one of the best chances for a storyline out of most Pokemon.

 

[_the_sandman_]

OMFG I cant believe this:

1st off samus aint gonna be some character that goes for the bounty of others, she SAVES planet, or did anyone missed mp1 and 2? shes like link and mario, thye save those in need...

Lucario can, like maybe pit will, be warned about the evil coming, and must help protect the pokemon or whatever lifeform there are in the world... what could squirtle do? OMG SQUIRTLE MARIOS ON FIRE SAVE HIM!!... yeah...

1.- Dude OBVIOUSLY the 1st gen is more popular, r did you NOT see the merchandise it was selling like hell back in the days? today the pokemon franchise aint as popular, but theyre NOT gonna add some pre eviolve form turtle to be in a roster of all stars? I ask you and Motha f'king respond: Why not raticate? charmender? cyndaquil? mudkip (hes popular for some reason)? why not hitmochand or hitmonlee? they can have an easier to make moveset, and hes a 1st gen! win win! [/sarcasm]
Thing is HE DOES HAVE A FANBASE, He has one in japan, tough not big, im SURE its bigger right now than squirtles...

2.- OMG squirtle uses water to take down pit in an epic battle of death!.... yeah psychic and that attack lucario uses in the movie is way better... right...

3.- OMFG JUST ONE PERSON SAID HE LOOKS SIMILAIR LIKE HIM, AND HES A FREAKING ******, GO TO THE LUCARIO THREAD AND SEE!

4.- ... that doesnt make sense you ******, READ THIS: D&P came out before brawl rite? so did LOZ TP, and we have TP LINK, bridge of eldin, king bulbin and TP zelda in there, and the game was in development before and during brawls development, JUST LIKE IN D&P OMG U FAIL!!

5.- Pokemon in movies: are legendary or have more importance than others, like IDK mewtwo, mew, celebi, lugia, deoxys, suicune, entei, unown, etc. I hardly believe we'll have: SHELL SHOCK! THE SQUIRTLE MOVIE! THE MOVIE YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING SINCE 10 **** YEARS AFTER THE POKEMON SERIES DEBUTED!!

6.- Yeah since most of us are 16+ years old, im sure we'll buy a game that's aimed for children, oh no dad dont buy me god of war 2, buy me pokemon diamond!

7.- OMG and squirtle would?! wtf can squirtle do that can save the world of smash bros and that lucario cant if not better? Lucario can sense things from far away, he can use that t warn our heroes, and also.. .HE CAN TALK! no BS squirtle ssquirt squirtle!! whats thats squirtle? a girl fell into a well?!

8.- OMG A BLUE TURTLE LETS ADD HIM IN BRAWL!
Really a yellow rat? a pink ballon monster? a giant turtle with canons coming of of his SHELL?! WTF?!

Well first off, lets get this Samus thing figured out. Metroid Prime occurs before Super Metroid, and we all know that Samus ends up blowing up the planet. She was hired to eliminate the Metroid species before they got out of hand. Again, she BLEW UP the planet. In fact shes always blowing things up, Melee even had a self destruct area in Adventure Mode.


1. Squirtle has a bigger fanbase, you said it yourself. If this is a contest for popularity, then Squirtle already won. Not just him though, Charmander, Snorlax, Clefairy, Meowth, Bulbasaur, and most of the first and second gen have more popularity then Lucario will ever have. You even said he isn't that popular in Japan. So exactly where is he popular? These boards? Wow, a whopping 50 people want him! Sounds like he's awfully popular compared to the 10,000 Squirtle fans in the world.

2. Ness and Mewtwo are Psychic. Mario, DK, Capt. Falcon, Fox, Bowser, Kirby, etc. are physical fighters. So exactly who can pull off a new element other than electric, fire, dark, or physical attacks? Not Falco, not King Dedede, not Sonic, not Ganondorf..... so exactly what character could give us a BRAND NEW type of element to attack with? My best guess is a Pokemon, preferably one that isn't fighting and/or steel.

3. Hey, I'm not the Lucario fan that prays every night that he turns out like Fox. Its not my stupid assumtion, its the Lucario fans. Besides wishing a character to be like Fox is almost sad, its like they don't realize that all of the characters are going to be balanced or changed....

4. The game was in development LONG before Pokemon D+P were released. You don't think Sakurai and his team figured out who all of the characters were going to be within the first month of production? The game has been finished for some time now, at this moment they're just fixing up the graphics, glitches, and various other little things. I really doubt they waited for Pokemon D+P to come out to see how popular it is, just so they can see if Lucario is worthy for Brawl.

5. Squirtle HAS appeared in the movies. And he has appeared in 300+ episodes. Not to mention he has appeared in various side games like Pokemon Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, and Colliseum. So exactly where has our boy Lucario popped up other than a movie? That's right, he really does just have the movie doesn't he.... if it wasn't for the movie you probably wouldn't have even considered him.

6. It doesn't matter what age you are now, if you played Pokemon Red/Blue then you'll know who Squirtle is. If you grew out of Pokemon then you never even bothered to get D+P. You see, most people that grow out of Pokemon still play Smash. And there are many more Smash fans than Pokemon D+P fans. So why not give the fans what they want, and give them a character that EVERYONE can recognize!

7. Again, some characters can be in it for very simple reasons. It always doesn't have to be a very serious life changing experience. Why can't some character have a fun adventure in other worlds? It could even be something as simple as his trainer disappeared, or that he's looking for food and stumbled into another dimension.

8. You see, Lucario is trying to have a serious look as well as a serious personality. You can't be serious when you have a big Spike sticking out of his chest. Not to mention the ugly color scheme for such a "serious" character. Did I mention the wig yet? Squirtle, Treecko, and Poliwhirl on other hand, have a very fun look to them because they are most likely meant to be fun characters.

------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of the "serious" characters have been changed graphically. Bowser looks cartoony, Fox's head doubled in size, and Yoshi has a cuter look. Remember how serious they looked in Melee? I think Sakurai wants this game to be more fun than serious. I mean he already has realistic characters like Snake and Samus, that's why he made the cartoon characters have a less stoic appearence. The only "serious" Pokemon should be Mewtwo because he was the original final boss AND he is actually an evil Pokemon. Usually the trainer is evil, but in this single case its the pokemon that turns out to be the villain. Pokemon wasn't even meant to be serious in the first place....

Seriously people, why are you still fighting for Lucario? There is so much proof here that he's a nobody! Deoxys turning into a Pokeball should be a warning call that Lucario may be next, or that he probably won't be in it at all. Sakurai has Ruby Pokemon on his sight, as well as a first and seconds gen. He has yet to show a 4th gen pokemon. I would be really surprised if any 4th gen appeared in Brawl. Why would Sakurai attempt to squish both 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in one game? Not to mention hes been working on this game LONG BEFORE POKEMON D+P WERE EVEN OUT. You really think he's going to go out of the way of production just to put a few 4th gen pokemon in? Its highly doubtful, especially since there are so many more things to worry about other than pokeballs.

 

[Legolastom]

Well first off, lets get this Samus thing figured out. Metroid Prime occurs before Super Metroid, and we all know that Samus ends up blowing up the planet. She was hired to eliminate the Metroid species before they got out of hand. Again, she BLEW UP the planet. In fact shes always blowing things up, Melee even had a self destruct area in Adventure Mode.


1. Squirtle has a bigger fanbase, you said it yourself. If this is a contest for popularity, then Squirtle already won. Not just him though, Charmander, Snorlax, Clefairy, Meowth, Bulbasaur, and most of the first and second gen have more popularity then Lucario will ever have. You even said he isn't that popular in Japan. So exactly where is he popular? These boards? Wow, a whopping 50 people want him! Sounds like he's awfully popular compared to the 10,000 Squirtle fans in the world.

2. Ness and Mewtwo are Psychic. Mario, DK, Capt. Falcon, Fox, Bowser, Kirby, etc. are physical fighters. So exactly who can pull off a new element other than electric, fire, dark, or physical attacks? Not Falco, not King Dedede, not Sonic, not Ganondorf..... so exactly what character could give us a BRAND NEW type of element to attack with? My best guess is a Pokemon, preferably one that isn't fighting and/or steel.

3. Hey, I'm not the Lucario fan that prays every night that he turns out like Fox. Its not my stupid assumtion, its the Lucario fans. Besides wishing a character to be like Fox is almost sad, its like they don't realize that all of the characters are going to be balanced or changed....

4. The game was in development LONG before Pokemon D+P were released. You don't think Sakurai and his team figured out who all of the characters were going to be within the first month of production? The game has been finished for some time now, at this moment they're just fixing up the graphics, glitches, and various other little things. I really doubt they waited for Pokemon D+P to come out to see how popular it is, just so they can see if Lucario is worthy for Brawl.

5. Squirtle HAS appeared in the movies. And he has appeared in 300+ episodes. Not to mention he has appeared in various side games like Pokemon Ranger, Mystery Dungeon, and Colliseum. So exactly where has our boy Lucario popped up other than a movie? That's right, he really does just have the movie doesn't he.... if it wasn't for the movie you probably wouldn't have even considered him.

6. It doesn't matter what age you are now, if you played Pokemon Red/Blue then you'll know who Squirtle is. If you grew out of Pokemon then you never even bothered to get D+P. You see, most people that grow out of Pokemon still play Smash. And there are many more Smash fans than Pokemon D+P fans. So why not give the fans what they want, and give them a character that EVERYONE can recognize!

7. Again, some characters can be in it for very simple reasons. It always doesn't have to be a very serious life changing experience. Why can't some character have a fun adventure in other worlds? It could even be something as simple as his trainer disappeared, or that he's looking for food and stumbled into another dimension.

8. You see, Lucario is trying to have a serious look as well as a serious personality. You can't be serious when you have a big Spike sticking out of his chest. Not to mention the ugly color scheme for such a "serious" character. Did I mention the wig yet? Squirtle, Treecko, and Poliwhirl on other hand, have a very fun look to them because they are most likely meant to be fun characters.

------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of the "serious" characters have been changed graphically. Bowser looks cartoony, Fox's head doubled in size, and Yoshi has a cuter look. Remember how serious they looked in Melee? I think Sakurai wants this game to be more fun than serious. I mean he already has realistic characters like Snake and Samus, that's why he made the cartoon characters have a less stoic appearence. The only "serious" Pokemon should be Mewtwo because he was the original final boss AND he is actually an evil Pokemon. Usually the trainer is evil, but in this single case its the pokemon that turns out to be the villain. Pokemon wasn't even meant to be serious in the first place....

Seriously people, why are you still fighting for Lucario? There is so much proof here that he's a nobody! Deoxys turning into a Pokeball should be a warning call that Lucario may be next, or that he probably won't be in it at all. Sakurai has Ruby Pokemon on his sight, as well as a first and seconds gen. He has yet to show a 4th gen pokemon. I would be really surprised if any 4th gen appeared in Brawl. Why would Sakurai attempt to squish both 3rd and 4th gen pokemon in one game? Not to mention hes been working on this game LONG BEFORE POKEMON D+P WERE EVEN OUT. You really think he's going to go out of the way of production just to put a few 4th gen pokemon in? Its highly doubtful, especially since there are so many more things to worry about other than pokeballs.

So your entire argument for Lucario not getting in is he isn't 1st gen and he isn't "Unique" o yhea and the most important you dont like how he looks.

 

[PitIcarus]

Lucario and the Mystery of Mew came out in the summer of 2005.

That is plenty of time for them to have put Lucario in the game. So that point is null. And the Lucario in that movie seemed to be very very serious to me. He even sacrifices his life and dies.

Basically, Sand_Man obviously just doesn't follow pokemon anymore so he wants to make sure any new pokemon in SSB is one that he recalls. If only the world revolved around him.

 

[_the_sandman_]

So your entire argument for Lucario not getting in is he isn't 1st gen and he isn't "Unique" o yhea and the most important you dont like how he looks.

Well that is the major part of my arguments. I mean why would you want a character that is only "somewhat" popular? And why would you want a character with a dull moveset? Fame and abilities should both be major factors for Sakurai when he decides to put a character into Brawl.

He looks like a mess, but I usually just say those things because I know it'll tick people off. But in my opinion he really does look bad.

Lucario and the Mystery of Mew came out in the summer of 2005.

That is plenty of time for them to have put Lucario in the game. So that point is null. And the Lucario in that movie seemed to be very very serious to me. He even sacrifices his life and dies.

Basically, Sand_Man obviously just doesn't follow pokemon anymore so he wants to make sure any new pokemon in SSB is one that he recalls. If only the world revolved around him.

Japan on July 16, 2005, Australia on August 16, 2006, and with the US release following on September 19, 2006

Well this would mean only Japan managed to see this movie before Brawl was even announced. Brawl was announced May 2006, so clearly the whole world knew who Lucario was by that time, right?

Wrong! You see Sakurai has been making this game for a loooong time now, in fact I'm sure he was a long ways into making the game before it was even announced. So why would Sakurai put Lucario in Smash, even though at the time only Japan knew who he was, and Lucario wasn't even in a game at the time? His game came out in 2006 for Japan and April 2007 in the US. Again, Brawl has been announced long before Lucario even existed around the whole world.

Get your facts figured out before you try to use it as evidence against me. Go to wikipedia, go to the Nintendo sites, go to the Smash dojo, its all there. Brawl has been announced around the world before the whole world even played Lucario's game.

 

[Circus]

He looks like a mess, but I usually just say those things because I know it'll tick people off. But in my opinion he really does look bad.

Although I disagree in this particular instance, I understand where you're coming from. I actually really strongly dislike Deoxys for that reason (I think it's absolutely hideous, to be honest). No matter how many times people made the point of it being original and fun to use and everything else, I just couldn't bring myself to support it because I found it so unappealing.

And regarding movie releases and worldwide knowledge of a character and Brawl's announcement . . . Roy says hi.

 

[PitIcarus]

Please tell me you aren't ignorant enough to assume that they stopped developing characters that early in development right?

And when he announced the game he had JUST gotten the office in Tokyo so they could start developing the game.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Although I disagree in this particular instance, I understand where you're coming from. I actually really strongly dislike Deoxys for that reason (I think it's absolutely hideous, to be honest). No matter how many times people made the point of it being original and fun to use and everything else, I just couldn't bring myself to support it because I found it so unappealing.

And regarding movie releases and worldwide knowledge of a character and Brawl's announcement . . . Roy says hi.

If it was a beauty contest between Lucario and Deoxys, I would hope that Lucario would beat him. But to be honest I dislike them both equally but for a couple of different reasons. Lucky for all of you Deoxys has been turned into an item so I never had to make an anti-thread for him.

As for Roy, I believe I have mentioned something about him before. He is a great example of why a character nobody knows about shouldn't show his face on the Smash battlefield!

 

[Circus]

If it was a beauty contest between Lucario and Deoxys, I would hope that Lucario would beat him. But to be honest I dislike them both equally but for a couple of different reasons. Lucky for all of you Deoxys has been turned into an item so I never had to make an anti-thread for him.

As for Roy, I believe I have mentioned something about him before. He is a great example of why a character nobody knows about shouldn't show his face on the Smash battlefield!

If you'd made an Anti-Deoxys thread, I might have supported it. Though, I wouldn't actually have had a good reason for it. So I'd probably just keep my mouth shut for the most part.

I haven't exactly done my research on this, but didn't Roy being in Brawl coax more people into buying his game? At the very least, a lot of North American smashers found out about Fire Emblem thanks to Marth. Something must be said about that.

 

[Stryks]

OMFG all that sandman said is WRONG!!

dear christs so u want sakurai to COMPLETELY IGNORE THE NEWEST GAME OF ONE OF BIG N'S BEST FRANCHISE???!!!

so you can see a small turtle in brawl??!! GOD WHY DID I LEAVE MY COMP??!

ok newsflash buddy the 1st gen is popular, but the NEWEST gen sold more in its 1st week than the other versions... IF ANYTHING lucario is more popular with the younger and semi-old audience RIGHT NOW than the 10 year old squirtle...

AND TP WAS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT DURING BRAWLS ANNOUNCEMENT JUST LIKE D&P, SO IF THEY ADDED A STAGE FROM THE NEWEST ZELDA, WHY NOT A PKMN FROM THE NEWEST GEN??!!

 

[PitIcarus]

OMFG all that sandman said is WRONG!!

dear christs so u want sakurai to COMPLETELY IGNORE THE NEWEST GAME OF ONE OF BIG N'S BEST FRANCHISE???!!!

so you can see a small turtle in brawl??!! GOD WHY DID I LEAVE MY COMP??!

ok newsflash buddy the 1st gen is popular, but the NEWEST gen sold more in its 1st week than the other versions... IF ANYTHING lucario is more popular with the younger and semi-old audience RIGHT NOW than the 10 year old squirtle...

AND TP WAS STILL IN DEVELOPMENT DURING BRAWLS ANNOUNCEMENT JUST LIKE D&P, SO IF THEY ADDED A STAGE FROM THE NEWEST ZELDA, WHY NOT A PKMN FROM THE NEWEST GEN??!!

All of the character models are from TP as well.
They were probably still working on characters up until a few months ago.

 

[_the_sandman_]

All of the character models are from TP as well.
They were probably still working on characters up until a few months ago.

Zelda is one of the legendary franchises for Nintendo. You don't think Sakurai had some help from various designers from Nintendo (or Miyamoto himself) to assist in the creation of Link for Brawl?

The Twilight version of Link is the best looking Link there has ever been. Why would Brawl have the Ocarina Link or WW Link when the TP Link was bound to show up sometime? Of course Brawl is going to have the best versions of the legendary characters.

But like I said, "legendary". Lucario doesn't have enough importance for Nintendo to have a brand new design before Brawl was announced. Why do you think the first four characters that were shown were Mario, Link, Kirby, and Pikachu?

Of course Link was going to be one of the first to be announced, so its no surprise that he would be in his best outfit for Brawl's trailer. I mean Link at least had some games before Brawl was announced, Lucario wasn't even in a game yet. Psh, it almost sounds like you think Lucario deserves better treatment than Link!

 

[Killer Tree]

I agree with the topic creator.


1st gen pokemon ftw

 

[Stryks]

wow wait, lucario ain't important to nintendo? huh and i ask: SQUIRTLE IS?!

duh they show mario, link and PIKACHU cause theyre da 3 most important franchise, kiby was added cause hes sakurais creation...

If developers fom TP helped out with brawl, and pokemon being part of big n's “legendary” franchises, couldn't the developers from D/P help out too?? u fail...

no lucario doesn't deserve more of a shot than link... but your saying lucario cant be in cause its to new, and yet TP which is came out what 4 months before DP has the latest looks of characters and even a stage in brawl, it doesn't make sense u ******...

 

[DonkeyPirate]

Well, the fact that as a non-pokemon gamer, I have never heard of Lucario, and I have a working knowledge of Squirtle tells me he is more important. Now, whether or not the developers are working together, a DS game will not have a graphical character to port to a Wii game i.e. the design would be simple and easy to make without help. I think Lucario has a chance, but I would personally rather see Squirtle.

 

[iankobe]

sorry for double posting.

 

[iankobe]

After all that reading from your posts, all I can see is that you're against Lucario JUST because he ISN'T "Unique" enough and I totally disagree with you. Look, I agree with your lil fighter vs fighter theory (mario vs Link, G&W vs ICs), but smash is ALSO a game where all the success of Nintendo meets up and fight. Lucario, being the latest pokemon movie, one of the MOST "unique" pokemon in D&P, does not lack any potential with being a playable character in brawl. The point is not how BORING a character can be. It is how they're actually in the game. It doesn't even matter if a character is boring or not. Heck, look at Zelda. Wtheck? All you do with her is Bair and Fair. -____- what can possibly be more "boring" than that? You tell me.

You should really open up your mind a little bit more if you STILL think Lucario does NOT fit in Brawl. Remember, this is EVERYBODY's Game. Not only yours. Statistically more people want Lucario than people who doesn't globally. You gotta think of the people in Japan also. Do you even know how big Lucario's impact in the Pokemon franchise now-a-days?! Lucario is MORE than just an ordinary pokemon. Just compare it to other fighting/steel pokemon. If you can find a better replacement than Lucario's type. Maybe I'll start agreeing with you.

Open up your mind.

I guess no one read what I wrote. So here it is again.

p.s. Sandman, you're wrong.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Why shouldn't a character that EVERYONE can recognize appear in Brawl? Its not that Lucario is too new, its just he isn't as recognizable like the other pokemon characters.

Why have a character that has half of the Smash fanbase saying "Who is that guy? I've never seen him before..." instead of all of them saying"WOW! Look at that! I can't believe Squirtle made it into Brawl! That's so cool!"

And if any of you Lucario fans say that you would hate to see a 1st gen pokemon appear, just out of spite, then shame on you. SHAME ON YOU!

 

[_the_sandman_]

I guess no one read what I wrote. So here it is again.

p.s. Sandman, you're wrong.

You're telling me to open up my mind? You're... telling ME of all people! For starters I use Yoshi, Mario, Kirby, and Ice Climbers in tournaments. If that group doesn't scream open minded then I don't know what would. I play on any level in the game. I still play Smash 64 once in a while. I still use items sometimes, and I even play on time mode. TIME MODE. Open my mind? Psh, I pryed it open a long time ago....

Anywho, you say Lucario is popular. But here on these boards, time after time again you'll see people post "Who is Lucario". More popular than Squirtle globally? Hardly! If Squirtle isn't popular how come he's been appearing in all of the Pokemon games over and over again?

Lucario has done jack compared to Squirtle alone. But hey, it isn't just Squirtle we're talking about, Lucario has to face off against the whole 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations of Pokemon. You really think he's more popular than all of them? What about Meowth? Poliwhirl? Treecko? Blaziken? Snorlax? You have to be joking when you say Lucario is more popular and more deserving than these other characters!

Maybe you're not open minded enough to realize which character deserve to be in Brawl! Perhaps you decided to like Lucario because hes an overpowered Pokemon (Both Fighting AND Steel) and he has overpowered attacks! Well he is "legendary" after all! Why not have fun with the game and pick someone that doesn't overlap the other characters? Why not pick a character for Brawl that is completely out there and wacky? Why not look at all 400+ pokemon and figure out which one is the most unique out of ALL of them?

Out of every single Pokemon you managed to side with the Pokemon that is a fighting type, who happens to be legendary, who happens to have a movie, who happens to be the BIGGEST fad on these boards..... seriously, most of these Lucario fans are just followers because no one wanted to stand up for the other generations. Everyone wants the "new" guy, but they forget about the most important characters to the franchise, the ones that created it!

Its easy to just follow everyone. That way when your wrong you won't feel as fooled. But when you're right you really didn't earn anything because you just followed the crowd. If Lucario happens to be playable, and the day you unlock him, you will see. You'll look at the roster of characters and ask yourself, "Why in the world is Lucario even playable?"

 

[Stryks]

answering last question:

because he has more to offer, newer =/= not in brawl...

and if the turtle is in, people will go: of all characters to choose from, WHY squirtle?

 

[_the_sandman_]

answering last question:

because he has more to offer, newer =/= not in brawl...

and if the turtle is in, people will go: of all characters to choose from, WHY squirtle?

We've been over this already. He has nothing new to offer. GO TO THE LUCARIO SHRINE! Look over there! Notice that most of his moves are just copied attacks from other characters? That's what happens when you choose a humanoid fighter with no personality!

And don't give me that energy ball attack crap! We already explained how Samus, Mewtwo, and possibly Megaman have that attack.

His side kick is like Capt. Falcon's! His High Jump Kick is like Game and Watch's Up B! His Down Smash is like a better version of Mewtwo's! Wow Lucario, real original there! Notice how 90% of Squirtle's attacks are unique? Jeez I wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the fact that Lucario is a humanoid fighter with no personality! Could it?

 

[PitIcarus]

Whether you are familiar with Lucario or not, when you play him in SSBB you will be like OMGZ HE IS THE COOLNESS I MUST BUY POKEMON GAMES.

 

[Circus]

Anywho, you say Lucario is popular. But here on these boards, time after time again you'll see people post "Who is Lucario". More popular than Squirtle globally? Hardly! If Squirtle isn't popular how come he's been appearing in all of the Pokemon games over and over again?

Being recognizable is not the same as being popular. Sure, more people do probably know who Squirtle is than Lucario, especially since Squirtle was around when Pokemon was really booming in the beginning. But, that doesn't mean more people like him or would want him.

Touching back on the Charizard post you made ages ago—You said your dad knew Charizard, but would not know any of the new gen pokemon if he were shown one. But does he like Charizard? I'd wager not. He probably doesn't care about pokemon at all, actually. So why would an opinion like his matter?

The truth is, the only people that matter in this case are current pokemon fans. Not non-fans (like your dad), not Smash fans who don't play pokemon, and not used-to-be-poke-fans. The people who are still playing pokemon are the ones who need to be taken into account.

I don't play Metroid. I don't like Samus. Does that mean she shouldn't be in Smash? No. Because the fans of Metroid do like her. They're the ones that matter. This same logic can be applied, more or less, to the pokemon franchise.

Lucario has done jack compared to Squirtle alone. But hey, it isn't just Squirtle we're talking about, Lucario has to face off against the whole 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations of Pokemon. You really think he's more popular than all of them? What about Meowth? Poliwhirl? Treecko? Blaziken? Snorlax? You have to be joking when you say Lucario is more popular and more deserving than these other characters!

I actually do think he's more popular than them. I don't see Snorlax, Poliwhirl, Meowth, etc. dominating the pokemon poll. Granted, yes, this is a Smash board so the poll results might not be entirely accurate when it comes to pokemaniacs in general, but it still shouldn't be ignored. I believe Lucario currently tops the pokemon for Brawl poll by about double the votes that the runner-up has. That deserves to be noted.

Out of every single Pokemon you managed to side with the Pokemon that is a fighting type, who happens to be legendary, who happens to have a movie, who happens to be the BIGGEST fad on these boards..... seriously, most of these Lucario fans are just followers because no one wanted to stand up for the other generations. Everyone wants the "new" guy, but they forget about the most important characters to the franchise, the ones that created it!

Lucario isn't a legendary.

And I still don't see why Pikachu, Jigglypuff and (probably) Mewtwo can't represent the first generation on their own. Don't you think that ALL the pokemon in Brawl being from the first generation is a little biased? Regardless of Lucario, limiting the line up to being only 1st gen reps is not smart. You'd be alienating the younger generation of pokefans. The ones who just picked up Diamond or Pearl and I don't even know who Squirtle, Snorlax, Mewtwo, Cubone, etc. are.

I mean, hell, Pikachu could represent the first generation on it's own. Never mind Lucario—at LEAST branch out into the other generations SOMEHOW.[/QUOTE]

 

[_the_sandman_]

Whether you are familiar with Lucario or not, when you play him in SSBB you will be like OMGZ HE IS THE COOLNESS I MUST BUY POKEMON GAMES.

I already learned that harsh lesson when I went out to buy the latest Fire Emblem (at the time) when I saw Roy. No thanks, I think I'll pass on the latest generation of Pokemon. Theres a reason why Sakurai is picking the better more deserving characters for Brawl. Why else would he pick Ike, Pit, or Zero Samus?

Whether or not hes good in the game he still doesn't deserve the spot. Just like Roy didn't deserve a spot.

------------------------------------------------------

And to you Circus, I have something to say.

If you want another Pokemon generation to represent, why not the third one? Sakurai already has shown us he is using the 3rd gen pokemon, so is it so hard to believe that a third gen might become playable?

And yes, of course my dad does not care about Pokemon anymore. But again, as I've said before, most pokemon fans have delt with Blue/Red, Gold/Silver, and possibly Ruby/Sapphire. Pokemon is targeted much more towards children these days, you don't think that the old pokemon fans grew up and moved on from that series? Clearly some still play the game, but its mostly younger people these days.

I'm not saying Lucario shouldn't be in the game because "I don't like him". I'm saying he shouldn't be in the game because Pokemon fans would't recognize him. I think I would feel very uneasy if Sakurai put in a pokemon character I didn't know about. See I researched him already, so I know about him. But to all of the old pokemon fans out there, I feel like it isn't fair for them to be smacked in the face by a pokemon character they can't notice.

This game has the greatest characters of all time clashing into one spot. I think Lucario is far from the fame Mario, Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, Ness, Mewtwo, and Mr. Game and Watch have reached.

 

[Circus]

We've been over this already. He has nothing new to offer. GO TO THE LUCARIO SHRINE! Look over there! Notice that most of his moves are just copied attacks from other characters? That's what happens when you choose a humanoid fighter with no personality!

Who says SAKURAI would do that though? Sure, the fans may have given him copied attacks because that's all we're familiar with, but Sakurai and the gang could make him unique.

And don't give me that energy ball attack crap! We already explained how Samus, Mewtwo, and possibly Megaman have that attack.

And it's already been explained several times how Lucario's Aura Sphere could still work differently from all of those attacks. This point holds no water at all.

His side kick is like Capt. Falcon's! His High Jump Kick is like Game and Watch's Up B! His Down Smash is like a better version of Mewtwo's! Wow Lucario, real original there! Notice how 90% of Squirtle's attacks are unique? Jeez I wonder why? It couldn't possibly be the fact that Lucario is a humanoid fighter with no personality! Could it?

How would you know if he hasn't even been in Smash yet? They can make his moves work anyway they want to.

By this logic, I could say that Squirtle's water gun would work like Bowser's firebreath. That his withdraw could work like Bowser's ^B. That his skull bash would work just like Pikachu's. That his bubblebeam would be just like Sheik's needles.

But I shouldn't say that, because that holds no truth. You don't know anything until the character is actually in the game. The creators can make those moves work in any way they want to.

 

[iankobe]

You're telling me to open up my mind? You're... telling ME of all people! For starters I use Yoshi, Mario, Kirby, and Ice Climbers in tournaments. If that group doesn't scream open minded then I don't know what would. I play on any level in the game. I still play Smash 64 once in a while. I still use items sometimes, and I even play on time mode. TIME MODE. Open my mind? Psh, I pryed it open a long time ago....

Anywho, you say Lucario is popular. But here on these boards, time after time again you'll see people post "Who is Lucario". More popular than Squirtle globally? Hardly! If Squirtle isn't popular how come he's been appearing in all of the Pokemon games over and over again?

Lucario has done jack compared to Squirtle alone. But hey, it isn't just Squirtle we're talking about, Lucario has to face off against the whole 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations of Pokemon. You really think he's more popular than all of them? What about Meowth? Poliwhirl? Treecko? Blaziken? Snorlax? You have to be joking when you say Lucario is more popular and more deserving than these other characters!

Maybe you're not open minded enough to realize which character deserve to be in Brawl! Perhaps you decided to like Lucario because hes an overpowered Pokemon (Both Fighting AND Steel) and he has overpowered attacks! Well he is "legendary" after all! Why not have fun with the game and pick someone that doesn't overlap the other characters? Why not pick a character for Brawl that is completely out there and wacky? Why not look at all 400+ pokemon and figure out which one is the most unique out of ALL of them?

Out of every single Pokemon you managed to side with the Pokemon that is a fighting type, who happens to be legendary, who happens to have a movie, who happens to be the BIGGEST fad on these boards..... seriously, most of these Lucario fans are just followers because no one wanted to stand up for the other generations. Everyone wants the "new" guy, but they forget about the most important characters to the franchise, the ones that created it!

Its easy to just follow everyone. That way when your wrong you won't feel as fooled. But when you're right you really didn't earn anything because you just followed the crowd. If Lucario happens to be playable, and the day you unlock him, you will see. You'll look at the roster of characters and ask yourself, "Why in the world is Lucario even playable?"

...OK? I was telling you to open up your mind not from playing smash with ALL the modes or play the 64 version. I'm telling you to think about having a character in an unselfishly way and be more considerate considering the Pokemon fans.

"Anywho, you say Lucario is popular. But here on these boards, time after time again you'll see people post "Who is Lucario". More popular than Squirtle globally? Hardly! If Squirtle isn't popular how come he's been appearing in all of the Pokemon games over and over again?"

Squirtle is one of the oldest pokemon in the franchise. It was created back in 1996, when Satoshi Tajiri first created the first pokemon game on the the gameboy. It's already been 11 years already. 11. That's when I was seven years old. In fact, I actually played the Japanese version too before all of the Americans get their own English version. Of course everybody freakin knows Squirtle. Pokemon was everybody's favorite, everybody played it. Now its not the same. We've already grown up. A lot of us have already stopped play pokemon. Therefore, nobody would actually know who Lucario is. Now its a brand new generation. Lucario is now the new Charizard, if you know what I mean.

"Lucario has done jack compared to Squirtle alone. But hey, it isn't just Squirtle we're talking about, Lucario has to face off against the whole 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations of Pokemon. You really think he's more popular than all of them? What about Meowth? Poliwhirl? Treecko? Blaziken? Snorlax? You have to be joking when you say Lucario is more popular and more deserving than these other characters!"

Of course! Diamond and Pearl came out four months ago!!! FOUR! What do you expect non-pokemon gamers to do?! Agagin, Brawl needs Pokemon that fits in THIS generation. Not 1st or 2nd. When melee first came out, I didn't even know some of the new characters! A lot of my friends did not even know G&W, Marth, Roy or even Ganondorf! Just because people don't play Fire emblem, or Zelda, doesn't mean we can't let them be in Smash!

"Maybe you're not open minded enough to realize which character deserve to be in Brawl! Perhaps you decided to like Lucario because hes an overpowered Pokemon (Both Fighting AND Steel) and he has overpowered attacks! Well he is "legendary" after all! Why not have fun with the game and pick someone that doesn't overlap the other characters? Why not pick a character for Brawl that is completely out there and wacky? Why not look at all 400+ pokemon and figure out which one is the most unique out of ALL of them?"

In fact, Lucario is NOT overpowered. He is NOT a legendary either. And why would Nintendo pick a character for Brawl that is COMPLETELY out there and wacky? Its not about their uniqueness. Its about popularity.

"Out of every single Pokemon you managed to side with the Pokemon that is a fighting type, who happens to be legendary, who happens to have a movie, who happens to be the BIGGEST fad on these boards..... seriously, most of these Lucario fans are just followers because no one wanted to stand up for the other generations. Everyone wants the "new" guy, but they forget about the most important characters to the franchise, the ones that created it!"

I have no clue on how to answer back to your arrogant statement.

Again, Smash is where all the success of Nintendo meets. You cannot change that.

p.s. If you think I'm a follower from the rest of the Lucario fans, I can tell you that I'm not one of them. I'm just a Pokemon Fan.

 

[the grim lizard]

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Micky Mouse! (Donald Duck) Mickey Mouse! (Donald Duck)
Forever let us hold our banner
High! High! High! High!

Sorry, I couldn't resist, what with the Micky and Donald posting the same page...

 

[Circus]

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Micky Mouse! (Donald Duck) Mickey Mouse! (Donald Duck)
Forever let us hold our banner
High! High! High! High!

Sorry, I couldn't resist, what with the Micky and Donald posting the same page...

Actually, that is kind of interesting. The avatars were even made from the same picture.

We kinda need a Goofy up in here.

 

[iankobe]

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Micky Mouse! (Donald Duck) Mickey Mouse! (Donald Duck)
Forever let us hold our banner
High! High! High! High!

Sorry, I couldn't resist, what with the Micky and Donald posting the same page...

Seriously, why don't you be the Goofy? LOL.