The Most Complex Characters?

[TomTom]

It's widely appreciated here that Brawl is not a perfectly balanced fighter and, inevitably, there is some variation in the overall strength and utility of the characters. However, this isn't the only differentiating factor.

I've been experimenting with Olimar recently and it occurred to me how complicated he is to play. You have to constantly manage your Pikmin, monitor the positions of the Pikmin in the line, rearrange them and subsequently use the moves best suited to the Pikmin at the front of the queue!

So the question I'm posing is: Which characters are the most complex to play and master, and does this make them more rewarding to play?

 

[Smash_Gigas]

Hm... I think the characters that require the most planning and technique are:

-Olimar (Already stated.)
-Samus (Using all her weapons require planning. Wrong weapon at wrong time = punishment.)
-Snake (Specifically speaking--His projectile game.)
-Pokemon Trainer (You need to know which Pokemon to switch first, like playing a game of cards.)

Ah... I can't think of any others off the top of my head atm.

EDIT: Yeah, I love trying to plan a strategy out in my fights. Shows you've got brainpower.

 

[Talazala]

Yoshi baby! Has a hard to execute wave-dash, a new spike that wasn't know until NOW, and a load of other ATs that are specific to him. Super armor frames are also something to know if you play Yoshi, and you have to cope with his somewhat lacking 3rd jump.

Try topping that.

 

[Bowser King]

Pokemon Trainer and Olimar seem the most complex.

 

[TomTom]

Yoshi baby! Has a hard to execute wave-dash, a new spike that wasn't know until NOW, and a load of other ATs that are specific to him. Super armor frames are also something to know if you play Yoshi, and you have to cope with his somewhat lacking 3rd jump.

Try topping that.

Would you say that this makes Yoshi more appealing to play, or less so due to the complexity of the matches that you have to play? But it's interesting you mention Yoshi - I hardly find any Yoshi mains at all.

 

[eMORAY21]

I'd say snake

 

[25%Cotton]

ice climbers. chaingrabs etc are difficult and often banned, but using minor grab chains you can learn to set up a lot of weird, killer attack chains. also, not everyone does it (i don't, because i can't do it well yet ), but desynching the climbers for crazy attacks is pretty tough but effective.

 

[SuSa]

Hands down, Olimar is the most complex. I find myself sometimes losing track of how many pikman I have (I've gotten down to 1 before I realized it...lol bad me) you have to either use down-b to order them, or you have to start running left to right slowly and QUICKLY memorize the order of them (I find this more useful) along with knowing when to throw them (side-b white pikman) up-smash (generally purple) side smash (I use red) or down smash (I use yellow :D) and thats counting his ground game (his aerial game from what I've seen has far less of a difference in powers)

Also I recently found out from a fantastic Olimar I played, his down-b has super armour frames O_o (I knew this but did not know the timing to be more precise) and he was a master at using that to avoid spikes by Rob, normally fatal b-airs, etc. So knowing when to time that helps as well.


(quote) ice climbers. chaingrabs etc are difficult and often banned, but using minor grab chains you can learn to set up a lot of weird, killer attack chains. also, not everyone does it (i don't, because i can't do it well yet ), but desynching the climbers for crazy attacks is pretty tough but effective.

I find using their up-b and not moving at all when your opponent is off stage then when nana lands, start mashing B or Side-B then Popo lands, and wallah, desycnhed. So far this has only helped me get an easy 40-50% from spamming side-b (p) to side-B (n)

Hope that helped (and theres a way to DS them on BF so that one is on the platform above, and you can spam like hell and its hard to hit you :D because they are "synched but not synched" if it happens to me again, I'll go into study in how to do this....

 

[Sean²]

Ice Climbers. How often do you see an exceptional character, such as them, so widely underplayed because 90% of the community cannot figure out how to use them to their full potential or at all!

 

[Talazala]

Would you say that this makes Yoshi more appealing to play, or less so due to the complexity of the matches that you have to play? But it's interesting you mention Yoshi - I hardly find any Yoshi mains at all.

Hmm lets see. Well he's not as great of a character than most other fighters. He does have a handful of ATs that make him unpredictable.

DR (wave dashing): It seems to be a fairly simple move, but is somewhat hard to pull off due to its demands of quick and awkward button imputs. It's like wavedashing in a way, though it probably won't be used repeatativly like the melee counterpart. If you like wavedashing, then give this a chance. It makes Yoshi more appealing if your into that sorta thing but wanna stay with Brawl.

Newly discovered spike: Even the Yoshi board isn't 100% sure how to pull it off. Only Chaco and maybe scatman know for now, we hope off getting more news on this today. Definitely adds if you are into edgehogging and that sorta stuff.

Super Armor: Is useful and can't hurt you. Only help you. This makes him more appealing I guess.

ETS, ECE, and ELFS. I guess it adds to his complexity?

It all depends on if you are interested in advanced techniques and stuff like that. If you don't then Yoshi isn't that appealing. If you like ATs that give him small advantages during fights to compensate for his somewhat lacking style, then Yoshi is pretty cool.

As of now, I'd say it's either Olimar or Yoshi for complexity.

 

[camzaman]

Samus appeals to me most, even though I know ICs and Olimar are probably even more complex...

 

[Sosuke]

^
Zomg. I'm gonna make my charecter sound all good cuz he has AT's. I mean it's not like other characters have them.

Hey guys, I think Toon Link is the most complex cuz he has SHDA. Does Yoshi have SHDA? No. So TL is most complex.
-_-

Spoiler

The whole Olimar thing. the queue is just too weird to not make him the most complex. Also PT, IC's, and I think Pikachu has a somewhat complex game.

(not you cam)

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Well, Olimar and Pokemon Trainer are pretty obvious.... Hmmm. Snake, Link, and Samus all require a complex projectile game. I think it really depends on what you mean by complex. Do you mean the character his/herself or how complexly you have to play to be successful as them.

For instance, you could argue that Ness and Lucas require complexity considering their unnatural recovery and specials- same for people with tether recoveries. Or, on the other side, you could say Lucario is complex because of his aura/damage ratio ability. As a third branch, a player could say Kirby is because of its move-copying.

So I suppose any of the above may apply.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

None of you have played Sonic,huh?

 

[L__]

BAHAHAHAHA

COMPLICATED BRAWL CHARACTERS...

 

[Julz]

The pikmin you pluck out come in random types so Olimar isn't as complex. Samus requires you to plan KO's in advance, like saving the dtilt for later. Snake's projectile game is complex but it isn't everything (He has his tilts to rely on as well).

I'd say the most complex would be PT. Aside from having to learn 3 different move sets you have to keep your eye on that 2 minute fatigue timer on each pokemon then plan on when and how you'll be able to switch during the match. Also, when your moves connect they degrade the fatigue timer even further so you need to incorporate grabs more. You need to switch especially for squirtle because he can't KO consistently whilst fatigued and has to rely on gimping at that point. There are also tactics like using the right pokemon for a certain match up or like switching to charizard to abuse that heavy status when you have a high percentage.

 

[TomTom]

The pikmin you pluck out come in random types so Olimar isn't as complex.

How does that affect the complexity of Olimar? The point is that you have to be able to keep track of your Pikmin and utilise each of their individual characteristics when performing certain moves with them. It has nothing to do with the act of plucking them.

 

[AnAardvark]

Most complex character, in my opinion, has to be Olimar, because I've had times where I'm not sure how many Pikmin I have and end up losing a life because I can't recover. Keeping track of the COLOR of the Pikmin isn't so much the problem for me. The problem for me is actually keeping COUNT of how many Pikmin I have.

 

[dowingba]

Samus is pretty complicated. Her neutral B move alone is more complex than most of the moves in this game. Not to mention she has two different forward B moves that have to be differentiated. Oh, and sometimes she's forced to become Zero Suit Samus. So you kinda have to learn a whole new set of moves. Remember, for Samus' third jump you press up+B but for Zero's third you press down+B.

 

[cwm123]

Peach is one of the only characters in brawl with real depth, and while Olimar is easy to pick up and play for kicks, mastering him requires MUCH attention to detail.

 

[momochuu]

I'd have to say the Ice Climbers. They're hard to pick up, but so rewarding to use once you get the hang of them.

 

[~Peachy~]

Peach is one of the only characters in brawl with real depth, and while Olimar is easy to pick up and play for kicks, mastering him requires MUCH attention to detail.

Now that just says everything.

 

[L__]

So the question I'm posing is: Which characters are the most complex to play and master, and does this make them more rewarding to play?

HA.

You didn't specify Melee characters.

FOX...

no YOSHI!

....

 

[PCHU]

I would say Ness or and Ike.
WHAT?
IKE IS COMPLEX?
Yes.
Simply enough, you REALLY have to think when using him.
If you simply rush into the fray you're dead.

 

[MarKO X]

The most complicated characters are Yoshi and Sonic, 2 very underrated characters because you can't play them the "conventional" way.

 

[Snail]

I think the Ice Climbers, although Olimar is rather complicated too.

I like that in a character though. In a game like Brawl I just have to challenge myself if I don't want to get bored.

 

[Veggi]

Ice Climbers are the most complicated. Actually, it might be Pikachu. I could never get that QAC thing down, but I don't really main him.

 

[bav123]

HA.

You didn't specify Melee characters.

FOX...

no YOSHI!

....

I don't think he/she needs to, it's in General Brawl Disscusion

Olimar, Ice Climbers and Samus are all pretty complex I suppose, I find them hard to use effectively

 

[Tenki]

I remember there was a thread a long time ago asking what the most technical characters were, and one post said, and I thoroughly agree, that ROB is the most technological character.

 

[L__]

I don't think he/she needs to, it's in General Brawl Disscusion

Olimar, Ice Climbers and Samus are all pretty complex I suppose, I find them hard to use effectively

LIAR...


We all know it's General Melee Discussion. >_>

 

[Browny]

Oliar isnt complex at all

sure you could try to care what pikmin he has, but it doesnt matter. all the pikmin has a huge grab range, they all do lots of damage, and they all KO perfectly fine except for white ones of course. really it doesnt make a difference if you pay attention to what pikmin comes out, as long as you get rid of any white ones when you go for the KO

 

[Sol]

I would say Snake or pokemon trainer. in my opinion

 

[Talazala]

Counting is still hard for some people? Just joking guys.

Ok fine, excluding ATs. Yoshi has a freakishly good 2nd jump and a lacking upB special. This makes recovering with Yoshi a specialty, since this will mean he will probably have to use his upB (normally 3rd jump)before his 2nd jump, and some people find that awkward. You have to secure the ledge with eggs before you can fully recover with your second jump, otherwise you run the risk of getting gimped during the 2nd jump. You do all of this while you have to remember that Yoshi has superarmor frames during his second jump, so you have to be ready to return an attack if you are lucky enough to get hit during the armor frames. You also have to make sure you don't tap up and jump BEFORE you use the egg toss, because eggtoss requires pressing up and b, but it may register the up as a jump and therefore completely ruining your chance of recovering. Basically, recovering with Yoshi has to be a well thought out process.

Super armor frames. I know them. You know them. Yoshi has 'em during his 2nd jump. Who else has that?

Yoshi is also the only character that can't jump out of his shield, so that adds a little. He also has a fairly slow roll so being reliant on rolls won't work when playing Yoshi.

Another specialty of Yoshi is his eggtoss. Yoshi's eggtoss is definitely a move that takes some time to use, and takes a bit more time to master. It's not like samus' homming missles, cuz you actually have to aim. it's harder to use than PK thunder cuz the controls of the egg toss are far more complex. IMO Yoshi's eggtoss is probably the most complex projectile in the game.

Spiking is somewhat hard to do with Yoshi, as you have to sweet spot it for success. missing the sweet spot would send the enemy back and upward, giving him/her more chance to recover.

There you have it, the reasons why Yoshi is the most complex in the entire game. This is WITHOUT ATs of course. I didn't state them though since I didn't need to. Yoshi is complex even without ATs, and can be absolutely ridiculous with them.

If you read this and still thing Yoshi isn't the most complex, then please, give me reasons why other character are more so.

top that L_! seriously.

 

[Sosuke]

^
I could VERY easily counter EVERYTHING you said in that post as for reasons why Toon Link is more complex.
Yet I honestly say Olimar.
Because I'm not some immature person who tries to defend their main and call them the best or something when their obviously not.
But your entitled to your opinion.

 

[Samuelson]

I think ZSS and Lucario are the most complex

ZSS because of all the stun combos you can do and Lucario because you have to play differently depending on what level your aura boost is.

 

[Ilex]

Ice Climbers because sometimes you literally have to control two characters at once back and forth, and that can get frustrating.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Olimar by far is the most complex. IC's come in at a close second with desyncing.

Samus is pretty complicated. Her neutral B move alone is more complex than most of the moves in this game. Not to mention she has two different forward B moves that have to be differentiated. Oh, and sometimes she's forced to become Zero Suit Samus. So you kinda have to learn a whole new set of moves. Remember, for Samus' third jump you press up+B but for Zero's third you press down+B.

I'm sorry but I cracked the hell up at this. I'm not quite sure how Charge Shot is more complex than say, DK's punch, aside from the fact that it's a ranged attack. Any player can choose to use either a Super Missile or Homing Missile. You're never forced to be ZSS unless you're playing with Smash Balls, which in most cases you aren't. ZSS' third jump is a tether. Flip Jump can be used as a recovery but is not her third jump.

 

[znintendotaku]

dude you could just shut off tap jump...
and i dont see how egg toss is complex at all:
hold down= low but far
hold up= high but close
no hold= medium medium
hold back= straight up

 

[UzakiuzuG]

Sonic in my opinion. Why you ask? No priority barely any killing moves. Slight lag on moves. But mainly the priority. The hardest to recover for me is Ness or Lucas. Lol I never recover with those two

 

[Talazala]

^
I could VERY easily counter EVERYTHING you said in that post as for reasons why Toon Link is more complex.
Yet I honestly say Olimar.
Because I'm not some immature person who tries to defend their main and call them the best or something when their obviously not.
But your entitled to your opinion.

Not best, just complex. Please then, do argue for Toon Link. If it's convincing, then I'll think toon-link is the most complex! I understand more about my main, so it's natural that I can pull out more of Yoshi's abnormalties.

Eggtoss isn't that complex, just more that most other projectiles.

To all those who don't agree with me and my thoughts on Yoshi: If you don't agree then argue why. I'd love to discuss.