Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[Phantom7]

But Rauru and the King of Hyrule weren't dead when their alternative incarnations came to being. Kaepora Gaebora and the King of Red Lions were just forms that the two took to interact with Link from the Light Temple and Hyrule respectively in OoT and WW.

Laruto died, we talked to her ghost. Medli is the reincarnation of Laruto.

The one and only thing that might convince me that the Zora did not transform into the Rito is the fact that Jabun, an obvious descendent of Jabu Jabu, is present, but does not watch over any Zora, while an equivalent deity Valoo watches over the Rito. Furthermore, the deity Deku Tree watches over its forest dwellers.

Man this is tough. The Rito in form, resemble the Zora even moreso than Hylians. Perhaps the Zora simply disappeared as a conglomerate tribe, so the spirit of that tribe was reborn as the Rito.

Are you sure Rauru wasn't dead in OoT? Remember the Gossip Stone specifically said "incarnation of an ancient sage", not alternate form in order to exist in Hyrule and speak to Link.

If the Rito had evolved from the Zoras, Jabun would have been watching over them, not Valoo. The Zoras probably stayed under the Great Sea while Hyrule was flooded since they can survive underwater. Besides, they return in Hyrule after the Great Sea drains, so I doubt they evolve into Rito and evolve back into Zoras.

 

[Kingdom Come]

Besides, they return in Hyrule after the Great Sea drains.

When was this?

I'm sorry I don't remember that part.

 

[Clownbot]

I hate when stories have holes like these. It's like they were lazy and just created characters and pasted them into a timeline or something.

Nothing beats Mario Bros' universe though. That thing makes 0 sense.

*creates an elaborate timeline of the SMB universe*

When was this?

I'm sorry I don't remember that part.

I think he's referring to the River Zora (also called "Zolas") in some of the games that supposedly take place after WW in the timeline.

 

[Kingdom Come]

i thought that was like a different subspecies?

Something along those lines.

 

[etecoon]

Nothing beats Mario Bros' universe though. That thing makes 0 sense.

this should explain most of your questions

 

[Falcon88]

Anyone else beginning to wonder about the other Sages? I've always thought Saria and Ilia had a lot in common - both being unusually close to Link, hair style, and a not well-defined relationship status with Link. Not to mention their names both end in "ia".

 

[Phantom7]

When was this?

I'm sorry I don't remember that part.

It depends on your thoughts on whether Hyrule was recovered from the Great Sea by draining or Link discovering a new island. Personally, I think it is by draining, mainly because FSA's map resembles Hyrule in WW so well.

Anyone else beginning to wonder about the other Sages? I've always thought Saria and Ilia had a lot in common - both being unusually close to Link, hair style, and a not well-defined relationship status with Link. Not to mention their names both end in "ia".

Darunia = Darbus
Ruto = Rutela
Impa = Impaz
Nabooru = Telma?
Rauru = Auru?

 

[Falcon88]

Darunia = Darbus
Ruto = Rutela
Impa = Impaz
Nabooru = Telma?
Rauru = Auru?

Ah, yes, I think we've talked about that before. I like the Nabooru = Telma point. I think they are in fact related, based on their skin color and hair color. I've always thought that even though Darunia and Darbus had such obviously similar names, the two seem to be really different characters apart from their roles as Goron heroes.

 

[Spire]

Have you guys recognized the significance behind Agitha, Telma, and Fanadi as a trio? Each represents the Kokiri, Gerudo, and Sheikah respectively. Agitha is a nature-tuned child who lives alone with a tree in her very home, Telma has the olive skin and red hair of the Gerudo, and Fanadi has the Sheikah eye symbol on her forehead and has red eyes. Could it be inferred that the Goddesses are represented by the Kokiri, Gerudo, and Sheikah primarily?

It's interesting to note that the Sages of these three races awakened in Ocarina of Time were all female also (Saria, Impa, and Nabooru). These three races could be considered the more feminine of Hyrule's various cast, since a number of their key members are female. This can [almost] be further corroborated by the Oracles:

- Farore resembles a Kokiri
- Din resembles a Gerudo
- Nayru resembles a... Hylian

Almost.

 

[Tacel]

I think that Farore represents Kokiri or Deku Scrub, Din represents Goron, and Nayru represented a Zora.
Look at this picture:

Farore is green, Din is red, and Nayru is Blue.
Ok, so the reason I believe what I believe from the first sentence, is because, to get the Master Sword, you had to collect the three Spiritual Stones. I think that the three stones represent the three goddesses.
1. Kokiri's Emerald (Green like Forore, and you get it from the Great Deku Tree in Kokiri Forest)
2. Goron's Ruby (Red like Din, and you get it from the Goron, Darunia)
3. Zora's Sapphire (Blue like Nayru, and you get it from a Zora, Princess Ruto)
Also, a Kokiri, a Goron, and a Zora each become sages.
I also believe that the goddesses are represented through the three masks in Majora's Mask.

 

[Spire]

That is true, but never have Din and Nayru represented the Goron or Zora. Even their statues in WW reflect their Oracle appearances.

Through the spiritual stones, they are definitely tied to these two species, and the fact that the Goron live in Eldin Province and the Zora in Lanayru further supports this, with the Kokiri (Monkeys) in the Faron province.

 

[Phantom7]

I honestly don't think the Goddesses are tied to any specific species, but actually the "theme" of a species, such as "forest", "fire", and "water". The evolving tribes that live in forest, fire, and water areas seem to carry artifacts that represent the Goddesses, though, like the Spiritual Stones or the Pearls. But the Goddesses do not represent those tribes themselves, or any tribe in Hyrule, even Hylians.

 

[Clownbot]

Didn't only one of the goddesses give Hyrule life, though? (I can't remember which)

 

[Spire]

Didn't only one of the goddesses give Hyrule life, though? (I can't remember which)

Din created the lifeless world, Farore breathed life into it, and Nayru gave that life intelligence, or sentience.

 

[Falcon88]

The Goddesses represent, obviously, Power, Wisdom, and Courage, as well as Fire, Water, and Wind. (I guess Farore is wind - based on how in OoT Farore "breathed" life into the world, and the whole Farore's Wind spell.) I think the Sages are more tied to specific races than are the Goddesses.

Saria - Kokiri
Darunia - Goron
Ruto - Zora
Impa - Shiekah
Nabooru - Gerudo
Rauru - Hylian

 

[zaneebaslave]

I always say "DIN" more as a gerudo than a goron.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

remember the pieces of the triforce, they are the symbol of the goddesses power


2 of the pieces belong to the HYlians, and one belonging to a guerudo.

Ganondorf having the triforce of power is the soul reason why the guerudo are often seen as having to do with Din...

IF that is true though, than that means the goddesses themselves favor Hylians, since both Link and Zelda are Hylians

 

[Falcon88]

I always say "DIN" more as a gerudo than a goron.

Right. I see why, I think - the Triforce of Power and Ganon, right?

But I still think they are not tied to any races. At least, it doesn't appear to be designed that way. The Goddesses represent the three major possessions one needs to rule a world - and the Sages represent the major elements (and peoples) who govern the world - Light, Forest, Fire, Water, Shadow, and Spirit.

You know, I wonder what the Seventh Sage represents?

 

[Kingdom Come]

Well, without a forest (which has trees) you can't make shelter.

Without fire there is no such thing as technology.

Water is the basic necessity of all lifeforms.

We all have a shadow, which could also represents the darkness in peoples hearts.

We would be lifeless corpses without spirit.

We all know that the light represents the goodness in our hearts, and shows that evil never prevails.

So Zelda (The seventh sage) must represent something that is a combination of all those things or something along those lines. If nobody understands me please don't get mad.

 

[Scott!]

I always associated the goddesses with the species that has the matching Spiritual Stone. Gorons = Ruby, Din, and Power. Zoras = Sapphire, Nayru, and Wisdom. When it comes to Farore, I always make a dual connection with the Kokiri, bearers of the Emerald, and Hylians, since Link is the bearer, as well as a Hylian himself. Also, in fantasy in general, humans always end up as the brave ones. Zoras are like the wise, distant, secluded elves. Gorons are like the dwarves, living underground in mountains, also secluded from humans, and mining. Of course, I'm grasping late at night.

 

[Kingdom Come]

Lol that sounded like you were using some Lord of The Rings as a reference.

 

[Phantom7]

Right. I see why, I think - the Triforce of Power and Ganon, right?

But I still think they are not tied to any races. At least, it doesn't appear to be designed that way. The Goddesses represent the three major possessions one needs to rule a world - and the Sages represent the major elements (and peoples) who govern the world - Light, Forest, Fire, Water, Shadow, and Spirit.

You know, I wonder what the Seventh Sage represents?

I'm gong to have to say she represents 'Time'. After all, there is a Temple for each Sage, and the only Temple remaining is the Temple of Time.

 

[Scott!]

Lol that sounded like you were using some Lord of The Rings as a reference.

That's partly what I was thinking of, but dwarves and elves and men being like that is not LOTR-exclusive by any means.

Also, I believe that too, Phantom. Time makes the most sense. Plus, she is the protector of the Ocarina of Time, and can do things even Link cannot with it, seeing as she uses it to send him back 7 years.

 

[Falcon88]

Time - that's brilliant!

I like the LoTR reference, though. Well, I guess it is sort of a general fantasy reference, but remapped to Zelda. The characterizations between the races are very good in OoT, so I guess that's part of the reason I like that game so much.

 

[Rapax]

WW Ganondorf > others

He's the only one who provides a motive for his deeds more than just wanting to control the world. He tells us why. And that's epic awesome.

Also, that video made my morning epic.

I thought that too. But today i fought against Ganondorf in TP again (just for fun, i love the fight).

He says: "I have only one wish. To extinguish all light of this world with my sword."
(Or at least something in the way, i play of course the german version, so i don't know how exactly he says it in the english version...)

Isn't this a motive too?

He wishes to make Hyrule to a darker world he can control. Why? Well, maybe he dislike the sun

Just wanted it to be mentioned...

Edit:
I found the quote:
"Would you hear my desire? To take this foul blade...and use it to blot out the light forever!" - Ganondorf

 

[Falcon88]

I honestly think of TP Ganondorf as "The" Ganondorf. He is very well designed in that game, I must say. And the fact that he hid behind Zant the whole time without anyone knowing is quite evil.

 

[XACE-K]

And the fact that he hid behind Zant the whole time without anyone knowing is quite evil.

I found it quite stupid IMO. It's like some RPGs, where you finally beat the villian that you knew of throughout the whole entire game, only to fight some random villian out of nowhere.

 

[Falcon88]

I found it quite stupid IMO. It's like some RPGs, where you finally beat the villian that you knew of throughout the whole entire game, only to fight some random villian out of nowhere.

Well, Ganon is anything but random, appearing in just about every Zelda game in some form. And, it isn't too late in the game that you realize it is Ganon pulling the strings. I mean, it isn't like Tabuu in Brawl - that was completely random. Who the heck is Tabuu, anyway? Ganondorf is a character who most fans will recognize right off the bat, so it works for him. And besides, you know Ganondorf's the real villain by the time you fight Zant, so it isn't a real bummer like in other games.
And I like him in TP because he's got the whole menacing evil warlock thing down pat this time around.

 

[Spire]

I found it quite stupid IMO. It's like some RPGs, where you finally beat the villian that you knew of throughout the whole entire game, only to fight some random villian out of nowhere.

Oh lordy... Final Fantasy IX.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Well, Ganon is anything but random, appearing in just about every Zelda game in some form. And, it isn't too late in the game that you realize it is Ganon pulling the strings. I mean, it isn't like Tabuu in Brawl - that was completely random. Who the heck is Tabuu, anyway? Ganondorf is a character who most fans will recognize right off the bat, so it works for him. And besides, you know Ganondorf's the real villain by the time you fight Zant, so it isn't a real bummer like in other games.

Completely ignoring the whole slew of people who have inevitably bought the game without any prior Zelda knowledge or skill, this makes perfect sense. However, due to the popularity of the Wii, I'd bet that there is a surprising number of these people. Don't assume that everybody is a hardcore fan.

And I like him in TP because he's got the whole menacing evil warlock thing down pat this time around.

I agree. I find TP's Ganondorf the best designed (while I find OoT's Ganon the best designed Ganon) as well.

 

[Rapax]

I agree. I find TP's Ganondorf the best designed (while I find OoT's Ganon the best designed Ganon) as well.

I agree with every word in this statement.

TP: Best designed Ganondorf.
OoT: Best designed Ganon.

Absolutely no doubt =)

 

[Clownbot]

I liked both OoT Ganondorf AND WW Ganondorf's design more than TP Ganondorf.

 

[Spire]

Yeah, WW Ganondorf's design trumps every single other. I dig his robes.

As for Ganon, I'm a sucker for the ol' blue pig with a trident, particularly the FSA rendition (latest). I'd love to see this form return in 3D, and seeing as how ST takes place in Hyrule, that may be a possibility.

 

[Rapax]

Of course, he looks great. But i like the 2-sword wielding not really good seen, dark, giant, with epic music grounded beast from OoT more

But this one looks also great

 

[Tacel]

I liked TP Ganondorf the best because he looks awesome, but when it comes to turning his head dramatically to look out a window at stalking kids, OoT Ganondorf get's the gold medal.

Ganon from OoT was my favorite. The boss battle was cool, as well. Chasing his tail with the Megaton Hammer was pretty hilarious, too.

 

[Phantom7]

The OoT Ganon battle was ****ing epic.

TP Ganon's laugh was by far the best. Muh ha ha ha ha ha hah!

 

[Cosmo!]

TP Ganon's laugh was by far the best. Muh ha ha ha ha ha hah!

sorry bud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_vAXPRvRJs

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I found it quite stupid IMO. It's like some RPGs, where you finally beat the villian that you knew of throughout the whole entire game, only to fight some random villian out of nowhere.

You were told and shown about Ganondorf the entire game...

IT gives you every clue that Zant is nothing but a puppet

 

[Falcon88]

sorry bud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_vAXPRvRJs

I must say, that is one ridiculous laugh. Good grief! It goes on forever!

You were told and shown about Ganondorf the entire game...

IT gives you every clue that Zant is nothing but a puppet

Indeed, it does. I think what makes some games a bummer is that you have no idea who the real boss is until you meet him. In TP, you learn about Ganondorf before you fight Zant, like I said earlier. So, it isn't so awkward when you fight him since he isn't a complete stranger.

 

[Phantom7]

sorry bud
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_vAXPRvRJs

All right, I admit, I forgot about that one...