Q&A The Marth Question and Answer Thread

[cerealkiller]

It's just you.

She doesn't have the tools to even play her keepaway game effectively.

So there must be something about that match you are struggling with.

Yes, there must be. They usually start the match spamming homing missiles which most of the times I evade. They, naturally, start charging the energy ball every time I go flying and then there's something about their dash and aerials that screw with my head. And then the success rate landing that energy ball seems quite high with me lol Either that or I coincidentally only come across hardcore Samus player lately.

Any Samus players here I could practice with?

 

[The_Most_Effectual]

i don't have a lot of experience in competitive doubles, but i've tried Cap/Marth a few times with a friend and its a lot of fun. not an ideal team, but worrying about a spacing character AND a character with ridiculous punish game like Falcon can be tough to deal with. what you lack is good recovery, projectiles, and you play two characters that get eaten up by juggles and combos (more so falcon than marth b/c of DS and faster aerials). however you have amazing potential kill power and all the style in the world.

i definitely think marth has his potential in doubles. depending on who you're working with you can make good use of upsmash
http://webmshare.com/GXdY1
and other tippered moves, just as long as you practice and know your teammate's throw arcs and whatnot

unfortunately, marth is a very precise character that can be difficult to control/focus with when playing in hectic doubles. you'll need to be even more precise than usual in doubles. but, he definitely has his rewarding perks like anyone else.

also, don't ****ing use Marth in online dubs.
don't do it ok

Thanks! Your advice is much appreciated! And yeah, online doubles is terrible. Any advice on a place to practice? Is that a question for the Marcina Sparring thread?
EDIT: Any other tips you have on how to play Marth in doubles, especially concerning the increased focus you mentioned would be great.

 

[erico9001]

If I'm playing as Marth, what stages should I go for, and what stages should I try to avoid?

 

[kj22]

After reanalyzing the match I honestly think it might be unwinnable. I'm rethinking my matches with Nairo and I'm like..what could I have done better? I didn't attack because I knew he could punish me hard. But not attacking gives her control so its like...wtf does Marth do?

Then it hit me...he loses. Thats what he does.

I don't fear her up-b. Nairo didn't kill me with it even once, IIRC. It was everything else that she has that steamrolled me. I do not feel that same sense of helplessness vs Diddy. Not even vs Jtails.

It's prolly 7-3 her favor which would mean Marth really is not viable even with customs. I don't even feel like Sheik or Diddy have 7-3 over Marth so thats saying something if ZSS does imo.

Hmmm...is this mu really that bad? I've seen both you and Shaya talk about how bad it is for Marth, but I don't see it.
The only two "top" zss's I've played are Paw and Nicole, and if anything it felt evenish if not slight disadvantage. Shame there's no vids of top Marth's vs top Zss's lol.

If I go to San Antonio and play Paw, I'll try to get some games uploaded.



Remember you did play against *Nairo*, who's definitely among the top 5 for this game.

 

[Emblem Lord]

See, but I'm an options kind of player. I know when I'm being outplayed and when it's the character. I did not feel safe vs her at any time. There was nothing in Marths toolset that made me think I could ever truly take control. And I have felt that way against other ZSS not just Nairo. I may beat others because im better, but from a tool set perspective what does Marth have on her?

How does Marth attack her without putting himself at a huge risk?

If you can't answer that then yes he does lose hard.

 

[Honor]

What's the easiest way to upload replays to the video thread to get feedback. USB? SIM?

 

[Vipermoon]

What's the easiest way to upload replays to the video thread to get feedback. USB? SIM?

Youtube

 

[Honor]

Lol guess I coulda figured that if I'd thought about it longer

 

[XionKai]

Not sure if this question has been answered but...
Did Marth get a buff, or a fixed in the latest v.1.0.6 patch, or he's still unchanged.?

 

[cerealkiller]

Some people insist he is untouched. Others insists something "has changed" like the DB mechanics.

Bottom line: no major changes.

 

[Royo]

Hey any tips on how to use the shield breaker?also is it good or bad habit to abuse the shield breaker on a jigglypuff cause I like when it flys up XD!

 

[XionKai]

Some people insist he is untouched. Others insists something "has changed" like the DB mechanics.

Bottom line: no major changes.

I'm sad now.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Hey any tips on how to use the shield breaker?also is it good or bad habit to abuse the shield breaker on a jigglypuff cause I like when it flys up XD!

Shield Breaker can be really useful for horizontal recovery, although it can be punished. Other than that, it's not such a good move. You can approach with short hop-SB, using it's slight boost in midair to confuse your opponent with its true reach. This is especially useful when they like shielding, as even a slightly charged hit can OHKO the shield, allowing a free fully charged SB to follow up. Also, it's default Marth's strongest move when fully charged, and should probably be used when you're opponent's stunned. But overall, in neutral, it's not too good. Approaching with it can be risky, especially compared to better strategies such as fair or RAR.



Is using DB's short hop in midair after a jump useful? Does it actually give a significant boost, and how should I use it?

Also, what's the difference between the counter customs? Does easy counter have more active frames, but more endlag, and does Iai counter have less active frames or not?

 

[MarkedRaptor]

Hello everyone. I recently wanted to pick up marth as a secondary since I liked him in brawl and melee. I've been learning all of the tricks of the trade, but I've noticed I struggle against rollers and defensive players.

Typically rollers aren't a problem and I can handle them on any other character, same with defensive. On Marth I tend to read rolls and dancing blade or foward tilt and what not. However, when they get to roughly 110% range I find it rather difficult. Most opponents can slide out of dancing blade(even the double hit cancel dancing blade doesn't leave me in the best spot). I can't dash attack cuz Marth's is rather slow, and my grab only kills at roughly 150%.

So if my opponent rolls and plays defensively I can't really seem to catch them or punish them at that percentage. What do you all recommend?

 

[Vipermoon]

Also, what's the difference between the counter customs? Does easy counter have more active frames, but more endlag, and does Iai counter have less active frames or not?

http://smashboards.com/threads/fabu...me-play-coalition.367397/page-6#post-17854582

At the bottom of the page in that link you'll find the counter info you need.

I would like to add that counter does 1.2x the damage of the attack countered while Iai is 1.4x and Easy is 0.7x. Also Iai counter sends backwards if you didn't know.

 

[Novaseer]

Hello everyone. I recently wanted to pick up marth as a secondary since I liked him in brawl and melee. I've been learning all of the tricks of the trade, but I've noticed I struggle against rollers and defensive players.

Typically rollers aren't a problem and I can handle them on any other character, same with defensive. On Marth I tend to read rolls and dancing blade or foward tilt and what not. However, when they get to roughly 110% range I find it rather difficult. Most opponents can slide out of dancing blade(even the double hit cancel dancing blade doesn't leave me in the best spot). I can't dash attack cuz Marth's is rather slow, and my grab only kills at roughly 150%.

So if my opponent rolls and plays defensively I can't really seem to catch them or punish them at that percentage. What do you all recommend?

Take advantage of jump-cancel options. Up-B out of dash is Marth's fastest punish, and at high percents Dolphin Slash send opponents off-stage where you can edgeguard or ledge trap for the KO. If you're able to read the roll coming, an Up-Smash out of dash will outright kill.

 

[MarkedRaptor]

Take advantage of jump-cancel options. Up-B out of dash is Marth's fastest punish, and at high percents Dolphin Slash send opponents off-stage where you can edgeguard or ledge trap for the KO. If you're able to read the roll coming, an Up-Smash out of dash will outright kill.

I'm not sure I can jump cancel on the 3DS all too well lol, not even sure what that is.

I'm talking about when they are dashing AWAY from me and rolling away from me. If I dolphin slash and miss, aren't I just dead? I must be crazy but up smash seems wonky as hell to hit someone with? I might be spoiled by other up smashes lol.

 

[Novaseer]

I might have used the wrong term, but I'm just talking about how you can input an Up-B or Up-Smash during a dash because of how the mechanics let you interrupt jump squats.

Any attempt to punish a retreating roll will require a risk. If you're reacting to the roll, the safest thing to do is simply walk forward and take stage control until they reach the edge. But if you predict the opponent's roll, you can dash towards them before they roll, and keep dashing to where their roll will take them and punish with an Up-smash or Dolphin Slash. If those two moves seem too risky, it's best to settle with a grab attempt even if it won't KO.

With customs on, Marth gains Crescent Slash and Dashing Assault which both help him defeat defensive players. Crescent Slash makes Marth's grab game deadly again, and Dashing Assault forces opponents to think twice about dashing or rolling away. In the custom-off meta Marth is known to have a real weakness against defensive play, as he has few safe ways of attacking.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hello everyone. I recently wanted to pick up marth as a secondary since I liked him in brawl and melee. I've been learning all of the tricks of the trade, but I've noticed I struggle against rollers and defensive players.

Typically rollers aren't a problem and I can handle them on any other character, same with defensive. On Marth I tend to read rolls and dancing blade or foward tilt and what not. However, when they get to roughly 110% range I find it rather difficult. Most opponents can slide out of dancing blade(even the double hit cancel dancing blade doesn't leave me in the best spot). I can't dash attack cuz Marth's is rather slow, and my grab only kills at roughly 150%.

So if my opponent rolls and plays defensively I can't really seem to catch them or punish them at that percentage. What do you all recommend?

At that point you need to be looking for a chance to u-throw trap into U-smash or an aerial and transition to ledge trap if you hit the aerial. If you can't net a kill outright from a punish you need to be creating a strong mix-up scenario that can potentially lead to death.

 

[MarkedRaptor]

To Nova: OH that's what that's called? I guess I always just called it a running up smash. What i'm concerned with is if we are both at high percents there's a significant chance I'm putting myself in a riskier situation since marth isn't as fast as some brawlers.

to Emblem: I wonder if that's what I've been doing wrong. I up throw and try to jump after them, but maybe I should do what I do on Little Mac and wait on the ground? Some people it seems too hard to chase in the air, wheras if I wait on the ground I can bait out an air dodge and foward smash or foward smash if they try to hit me?

 

[Vipermoon]

To Nova: OH that's what that's called? I guess I always just called it a running up smash. What i'm concerned with is if we are both at high percents there's a significant chance I'm putting myself in a riskier situation since marth isn't as fast as some brawlers.

to Emblem: I wonder if that's what I've been doing wrong. I up throw and try to jump after them, but maybe I should do what I do on Little Mac and wait on the ground? Some people it seems too hard to chase in the air, wheras if I wait on the ground I can bait out an air dodge and foward smash or foward smash if they try to hit me?

It is a running up smash. A jump canceled up smash is when you input jump then interrupt with up smash, it makes you go further sideways

 

[Codaption]

Question for a friend to settle an arguement, how consistently should Marth be able to land tipper? I figured it was very often, but my friend thinks its not really possible in a game as hectic as smash.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Question for a friend to settle an arguement, how consistently should Marth be able to land tipper? I figured it was very often, but my friend thinks its not really possible in a game as hectic as smash.

A perfect player would be able to pretty much always tipper whenever they want. In melee, I'm pretty sure pros are able to almost always tipper. In Smash 4 it's harder, but you should still be able to do it reasonably consistently if you aim for it. (Also depends on what moves you use since different moves are easier/harder to tipper.)

 

[Codaption]

That's what I expected to hear. I know that since Melee is even more chaotic than sm4sh (and yet people do it very well there), it's probably not too different nowadays. I'd like to hear from more people to confirm, though, it's a long-standing debate that I'd love to settle once and for all.

 

[Shaya]

Marth wants to both tipper and sour spot various moves at different times (exception being kill moves).

There are a lot of "rules" I suppose that when followed tend to increase the amount of tippers one gets. Tilts bar up tilt and all aerials are relatively easy to be consistent with tippering them.
Up Tilt and smashes is a bit harder, but there's means for it. In general you should always have the habit of spacing towards the maximum reach of your sword and using minute movements to compensate to get them (like retreating in the air, or walking forwards or backwards slightly)

 

[Codaption]

Thank you! I'll be sure to save a link to these posts for when it comes up again. If anyone else has something I should hear regarding this, I'd still like to know.

 

[LordShade67]

So, uh....since we know a number of Marth's changes due to the patch, what's the general consensus on him currently? Legit curiosity.

 

[Zorai]

https://youtu.be/OYWXCTKKDV0?t=50

At 50 seconds, is the forward air performed in this manner "safe" on shield? It looks like Marth wasn't at a big frame disadvantage.

 

[RosalinaSGS]

https://youtu.be/OYWXCTKKDV0?t=50

At 50 seconds, is the forward air performed in this manner "safe" on shield? It looks like Marth wasn't at a big frame disadvantage.

From what I saw, and what I know of Marth's fair, it should have been reasonably safe. It could have been punished, as he was at a frame disadvantage, but it would have been relatively difficult and he could have been able to shield soon enough imo. Additionally, the punish could also have been beaten out by the dtilt.

 

[r_greening1]

Hey guys! Do you think that walking with Marth is safer than dashing in most cases? Marth has the fastest walk speed and has tons of options out of a walk. For his dash, it's not the fastest and there's not much you can do out of it other than a dash attack that's easily punishable, a dash grab, shield, or some aerial.

 

[Quickhero]

Hey guys! Do you think that walking with Marth is safer than dashing in most cases? Marth has the fastest walk speed and has tons of options out of a walk. For his dash, it's not the fastest and there's not much you can do out of it other than a dash attack that's easily punishable, a dash grab, shield, or some aerial.

I can definitely say it's a much better tool for spacing. Walking and perfect pivoting provide enough tools to providing space when close range and hit with some good tilts or even Dancing Blade. Dashing is better for getting closer to a far away opponent if you so desire, for obvious reasons.

 

[Vipermoon]

Just remember Marth is a tall tree when walking. He is almost at crouch level when he's running. This reduces his hurtbox immensely. With that said, people still need to walk more often with Marth.

 

[Emblem Lord]

https://youtu.be/OYWXCTKKDV0?t=50

At 50 seconds, is the forward air performed in this manner "safe" on shield? It looks like Marth wasn't at a big frame disadvantage.

It was pretty safe. A faster character like CF probably could have punished as the d-tilt after was not an actual block string. BUT, if Marth has done nothing after the Fair then any punish attempt could have been avoided with a roll.

So it's a little mini defensive mix-up situation. Though it does favor the blocking opponent.

 

[Zorai]

It was pretty safe. A faster character like CF probably could have punished as the d-tilt after was not an actual block string. BUT, if Marth has done nothing after the Fair then any punish attempt could have been avoided with a roll.

So it's a little mini defensive mix-up situation. Though it does favor the blocking opponent.

Yeah I asked because I find myself doing this ever so often as I've implemented more empty hops in my game due to playing lots of Sheik. Don't really get punished for it. A lot of the time the fair actually hits if you've conditioned them somehow. Marth's empty hop game is decent. Especially mixed with some shieldbreakers and, well, shields LOL. Nair is good too.

In Brawl we did this a lot due to the minuscule landing lag on fair. I just feel like in this game when you do fair at the very last second you really don't have that much lag. You need it to tip if you go for it though. Plus waiting that long gives you the choice of if you want to go for it or not. Just a wiser choice in the neutral than going for shorthop autocancelled fair. Even though that is still good depending on how the neutral is going or if you have momentum, etc.

Ultimately I'm learning that there is no standard method to play Marth, as there is with characters like Sheik. Your decision making should go according to the opponent you're playing. But fundamental rules still apply.

 

[manueluno]

Hola, what are Marth's good and bad match ups? I tried the MU thread but is a bit disorganized.

I main DDD, and have been looking for a secondary for quite some time, but one that I actually enjoy playing. So far, Marth has been fun, and if it covers some of the King's bad match ups it will be great.

Thanks,

 

[Locuan]

I tried the MU thread but is a bit disorganized.

How so?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hola, what are Marth's good and bad match ups? I tried the MU thread but is a bit disorganized.

I main DDD, and have been looking for a secondary for quite some time, but one that I actually enjoy playing. So far, Marth has been fun, and if it covers some of the King's bad match ups it will be great.

Thanks,

They lose to literally the same characters. Marth goes evenish with some that D3 doesn't but honestly Smash 4 is not kind to any monarchy.

 

[Codaption]

They lose to literally the same characters. Marth goes evenish with some that D3 doesn't but honestly Smash 4 is not kind to any monarchy.

What about Bows-

Oh.

 

[Shaya]

Marth will probably do slightly better against certain types of speedy characters where King Dedede doesn't have much luck/fun abusing his weight.
Fox and ZSS perhaps?

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

How strong is Marth's fsmash? I got hit by it toward the right of an omega stage at 78% (as Greninja, against a 92% damage Marth), and got blasted off.