Q&A The Marth Question and Answer Thread

[NoMarthLeftBehind]

HALLO EVERYBODY!

So, when I first played as Marth, it was against a friend using Shulk on a 1v1. I won, and it felt great because he was the reason I kept losing at this party with out some other chums (playing 8-player smash). I had never even used Marth before (I did play the earlier games with said chums). Needless to say, I fell in love with him.

That being said, I got pretty okay with him online (on for fun, the advantages some chars have on FD stages is BS).

However, it's unfortunate that I have a ton of trouble with certain chars. These being King Dedede and Bowser mainly. Any tips?


I'll see if I can get some replays up so that you can critique my form.

 

[ReRaze]

Can marth still footstool spike?

Does the third hit of dancing blade down version spike?

 

[Shaya]

No.

Pretty sure, yes.

 

[Leojm]

When you land a shieldbreaker and it actually breaks the shield what is the fastest way to positioned yourself to land a tipper f-mash or another charged shieldbreaker????? cuz it sucks when you missed that chance.........

 

[Locuan]

You have more than enough time to position yourself and land an attack when you break your opponents shield. If you are missing, it means that you still have difficulty with the attacks tipper range. I recommend going into training mode and testing out your attack ranges on an immobile opponent. Although, if your opponent is at high-ish percents another charged shieldbreaker without tipper should take their stock regardless.

 

[digiholic]

Can someone point me to a simple, yet comprehensive guide to Dancing Blade?

Like, what's the input for each slash, what's their range like, damage, knockback, etc.

 

[Leojm]

I think there's a dancing blade guide made by Emblem Lord somewhere in here, you should just search it out.

 

[adamlon1]

I'm having trouble figuring out what the use of Down-Smash is as there are plenty of better kill options and grab is faster and can set up combos easier so what is the point of it.

 

[Shaya]

grab is 7 frames.
Dsmash is 6.

Yeah it's pretty useless...

 

[Royo]

Hi I'm new i only got one question if u can be so kind to answer.
How in the world I can beat a ness user online 1v1?btw I fought like over 100 people who use ness and didn't even won one also I'm not a bad marth user.
Thanks!

 

[Cazdon]

Hi I'm new i only got one question if u can be so kind to answer.
How in the world I can beat a ness user online 1v1?btw I fought like over 100 people who use ness and didn't even won one also I'm not a bad marth user.
Thanks!

Welcome to Smashboards! And in terms of the Ness/Marth Match-up you need to use a lot of baits, like short hops where you don't even attack, and try to get the Ness to throw out a risky attack, and then punish him for it. But there are a lot better Marth's here than me so hopefully they can give you some tips.

 

[Umby]

Are there any particular tools I should use more frequently or goals I should pursue if I'm looking to play an aggressive playstyle? I realize a rushdown game is not optimal, but I'm looking for ideas to play the character I like while complimenting my preferences.

 

[Cazdon]

Are there any particular tools I should use more frequently or goals I should pursue if I'm looking to play an aggressive playstyle? I realize a rushdown game is not optimal, but I'm looking for ideas to play the character I like while complimenting my preferences.

If you don't mind customs, Marth's neutral 3, Dashing Assault, makes for a decent aggression tool, so long as you don't spam it.

 

[Shaya]

A lot of dash grab my son.
Down tilt something? Grab.
Sour spot something? Grab.
In the air? Don't throw out an aerial, fast fall, and then grab.
Got your

No you don't even remotely get as much out of it as a lot of the other characters in the cast, but shield is the main means of defeating Marth, and you can do your best to apply pressure with people in the air by trapping their landings. His dash grab is good range and it doesn't get punished by dodges usually (that's why dash grabs are so dumb in this game #_#)

 

[busken]

Hey guys. I have been lurking through the boards for quite a while now, and have seen the great contribution everybody here has made to advance the knowledge on Marth. I am new to smash, and I actually wasn't interested in playing Marth. However, I started using him because I realized that if you know your fundamentals and champion spacing you can be successful with him. However, as I started using him he became more and more natural for me and my play style. Now, I am thinking of using him in Smash 4. I went to to smash wiki and looked at all his nerfs and wondered if that would still change the MU he has against certain characters, especially dominant ones today like Diddy, Ness, Luigi, etc. In my eyes, his ranged wasn't nerfed and overall and it seems that the thing that was is the lag and less reward of tipper on his moves. So when I wanted to know is that is he still viable. Does the end lag on his moves and less reward of tipper really contribute to the MU's? As far as I can see, He had a positive MU against the dominant characters now, and with his is it still in his favor?

 

[Locuan]

Hey @ busken I moved your post to the Marth Question and Answer Thread, just a notice.

 

[busken]

Hey @ busken I moved your post to the Marth Question and Answer Thread, just a notice.

LOL so sorry. I didn't know if that was thread worthy thanks!

 

[Locuan]

Don't worry about it, regarding viability of characters, I would say every character is viable in the right hands. However, Marth has flaws that hold him back when compared to other characters. Thus, some of his match-ups, especially against those considered top are considered difficult for him.

 

[Foodies]

So when I wanted to know is that is he still viable. Does the end lag on his moves and less reward of tipper really contribute to the MU's? As far as I can see, He had a positive MU against the dominant characters now, and with his is it still in his favor?

What's your definition of viable? I personally don't see solo Marth winning any major tournaments, so I wouldn't say he's viable in that sense. The increased end lag on his moves does hurt and makes it so you really have to be precise with him to do well. Also I'd say the reward of his tipper has increased instead of decreased. He struggles against major tournament threats but is fine against the rest of the cast (as with seemingly all other character not considered top tiers).

 

[kj22]

What's your definition of viable? I personally don't see solo Marth winning any major tournaments, so I wouldn't say he's viable in that sense. The increased end lag on his moves does hurt and makes it so you really have to be precise with him to do well. Also I'd say the reward of his tipper has increased instead of decreased. He struggles against major tournament threats but is fine against the rest of the cast (as with seemingly all other character not considered top tiers).

foodies ily. if we meet we'll solo marth dubz an entire tourny

 

[OmegaSorin]

So, I've been training with Marth in training, using Bowser, and many other heavy characters as well as light characters trying to figure out if Marth has any 'True Combos'... Does he have any actual true combo's? Or is he a character that is mostly focused on single strong and precise strikes? My thought pattern lends me to believe that its the second, as its proven most effective...but just curious really.

 

[Foodies]

@ OmegaSorin He does have some true combos. Here is the thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/ive-made-a-list-of-marths-true-combos.387633/

But your thoughts are correct. Most of Marth's hits in this game don't true combo into much - you'll notice that the majority of combo list is composed of falling uair into something else.

 

[Dagon97]

Is there an invincibility frame on Marth's UpB and if so how many?
Is it faster to do an immediate OoS UpB or buffer jump UpB OoS? (If so what is the frame difference?)

 

[Random4811]

Is there an invincibility frame on Marth's UpB and if so how many?
Is it faster to do an immediate OoS UpB or buffer jump UpB OoS? (If so what is the frame difference?)

Jump before upB, you can jump out of shield without shielddrop lag (at least im 60% sure of that.) Shield drop is 11 frames where you cannot do anything. OoS up B without jump just means shield drop -> Up B.

If you're curious of the frame-date, check the Marth frame data thread. I think that there are 5 frames of invincibility on the startup of UpB, but I know the frames for it are different grounded than in the air. I think grounded might have more invincibility

 

[Locuan]

JIf you're curious of the frame-date, check the Marth frame data thread. I think that there are 5 frames of invincibility on the startup of UpB, but I know the frames for it are different grounded than in the air. I think grounded might have more invincibility

Specials for Marth aren't in the thread yet. I'm going to work on them today. However, Lucina has her specials and due to their similarities it can give an idea as to how Marth's Dolphin Slash works.

 

[Random4811]

Specials for Marth aren't in the thread yet. I'm going to work on them today. However, Lucina has her specials and due to their similarities it can give an idea as to how Marth's Dolphin Slash works.

Oh. I thought they were, I saw the frame data for it somewhere.

 

[Vipermoon]

Is there an invincibility frame on Marth's UpB and if so how many?
Is it faster to do an immediate OoS UpB or buffer jump UpB OoS? (If so what is the frame difference?)

Up B OoS is faster than jump OoS Up B because while they both don't have shield drop lag, you still have to jump first in one of them.

Also, Shaya posted to a thread, it might have been the Lucina forum, on specials frame data. Dolphin Slash from the air is invincible from frames 1-4 and DS grounded is invincible from 4-6. I think Brawl had it from 1-5 from both ground and air.

 

[Random4811]

Up B OoS is faster than jump OoS Up B because while they both don't have shield drop lag, you still have to jump first in one of them.

Also, Shaya posted to a thread, it might have been the Lucina forum, on specials frame data. Dolphin Slash from the air is invincible from frames 1-4 and DS grounded is invincible from 4-6. I think Brawl had it from 1-5 from both ground and air.

I was told by someone a while back that Up B OoS wasnt a true OoS, and required shield drop. Ill test it when I get home because I never took the time to actually test it, I've not really been using Up B out of shield too often.

And I thought it was something like that. 4 frame invincibility on startup in the air. I didnt think DS grounded had startup invul, but it comes out really quick

 

[CURRY]

Is what happens in Up-B OoS is that the jumpsquat happens in the shield? I may be wrong.

I feel like it also may be a jump cancel instead. Usmash OoS utilizes jump cancelling, so I'm pretty sure that's what happens with up-B as well.

 

[fox67890]

Up-B OoS and jump OoS Up B are the same thing (it's just a matter of terminology). You're just bypassing the shield drop frames by jumping while in shield, and then immediately Up B'ing.
With tap jump on. it's just pressing Up and b. (Pressing up imbeds the jump command and the "up" command for dolphin slash.)
With tap jump off. It's holding up and then quickly pressing jump then B.

 

[Vipermoon]

So up B out of shield has 1-4 invincibilty instead of 4-6? We need to figure that out because that's a big deal

 

[Shaya]

Jump squat animation doesn't count as aerial usages of a move.

 

[Random4811]

So is there a frame difference between inputting Up B while in shield and jumping out of shield? I feel like there should be, but Im not sure.
Either way, if you're grounded when you use Up B, it'll use the grounded frames of invincibility. If not, it'll use the aerial frames. its that simple.

 

[Vipermoon]

Jump squat animation doesn't count as aerial usages of a move.

Thanks. So DS OoS is 4-6 invinc.

 

[Seinfeld Season 4 on VHS]

Hey I've got a quick question on grab releases. I've seen in previous threads the potential for small characters to be comboed by Crescent Slash out of grab release, but what about larger ones?

Has anyone had success in releasing large characters then following it up with an f-tilt? I just started trying it and it seems for some characters I let them go outside of their jab range and the worst that happens is either they roll away or we clash f-tilts.

 

[Vipermoon]

Hey I've got a quick question on grab releases. I've seen in previous threads the potential for small characters to be comboed by Crescent Slash out of grab release, but what about larger ones?

Has anyone had success in releasing large characters then following it up with an f-tilt? I just started trying it and it seems for some characters I let them go outside of their jab range and the worst that happens is either they roll away or we clash f-tilts.

What I do know is that the grab release will release a character up if that character's feet is off the ground. Sometimes pummeling them will do this, or the character's struggling animation. It really depends on the characters but it's really a short vs tall and a timing thing.

 

[Novaseer]

Hey I've got a quick question on grab releases. I've seen in previous threads the potential for small characters to be comboed by Crescent Slash out of grab release, but what about larger ones?

Has anyone had success in releasing large characters then following it up with an f-tilt? I just started trying it and it seems for some characters I let them go outside of their jab range and the worst that happens is either they roll away or we clash f-tilts.

A grab released large character can shield before anything Marth can do, on top of gaining grab invulnerability for one second. It's better for Marth to throw them for better damage and stage control.

 

[Seinfeld Season 4 on VHS]

A grab released large character can shield before anything Marth can do, on top of gaining grab invulnerability for one second. It's better for Marth to throw them for better damage and stage control.

Thanks! I think when I tried it I was just catching people trying to mash out of the grab and not trying to shield after, so thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Foodies]

This has been bothering me for a while. Is it possible to reverse counter with Marth? I've attempted it multiple times and it seems impossible. I can reverse downB just fine with almost any other character. However it seems like all character with downB counter moves (Marth, Lucina, Shulk, Ike, Palutena, Little Mac, Lucario, Greninja) can't reverse the move.

And if you're wondering why it even matters I was just looking into the ledgejump reverse counter option that was used sometimes in Brawl.

 

[Random4811]

This has been bothering me for a while. Is it possible to reverse counter with Marth? I've attempted it multiple times and it seems impossible. I can reverse downB just fine with almost any other character. However it seems like all character with downB counter moves (Marth, Lucina, Shulk, Ike, Palutena, Little Mac, Lucario, Greninja) can't reverse the move.

And if you're wondering why it even matters I was just looking into the ledgejump reverse counter option that was used sometimes in Brawl.

Why would you need to reverse counter? Does it not react to whatever side you were hit from anyway?