Q&A The Marth Question and Answer Thread

[nedskii-]

Tips for fighting DK? My edgeguarding and juggling is fine against him, but it's on the ground where I struggle.

And also, how do I deal with Mega Man's that like to surround themselves with Leaf Shield to approach and stuff?

DK is a tough MU. It's huge spacing and avoiding dash attack. DK struggles to land so use that to your advantage. You can counter dk's recovery too ofc. As for leaf shield..NEVER hold shield against it. Either go into the air and run away or fight through with jabs/tilts/and i ak theory crafting dancing blade.

 

[Vipermoon]

Yup, you want Dancing Blade for Leaf Shield because of the transcendent priority (it can't clank).

 

[Litany]

What are Marth's landing options? This is something I seem to struggle with often, and usually I find myself just drifting over to the ledge. Does Marth have better options?

 

[Locuan]

What are Marth's landing options? This is something I seem to struggle with often, and usually I find myself just drifting over to the ledge. Does Marth have better options?

I'm guessing in the general scenario where the opponent puts you above them? So basically, coming down and trying to avoid their potential reads/follow ups? You have various options obviously but it depends on what your opponent is doing. Going to the ledge might be the best option depending on the scenario. I personally try to avoid landing on top of my opponent as much as possible. Coming down while trying to avoid an opponent and using an aerial can also be a good option depending on the scenario. For example, N-air has good reach and the least amount of landing lag (12 frames). Counter could be good if used sparingly if you have noticed your opponents overuse of attacks etc.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that there are a multitude of options but it is very scenario dependent. I guess tackling that question with a scenario you have experienced multiple times or are struggling with would be best.

 

[SmBootZ]

Does anyone know how the multiple hits of Dancing Blade effect Marths staling queue?

 

[Vipermoon]

Does anyone know how the multiple hits of Dancing Blade effect Marths staling queue?

Each of the four attacks stale Dancing Blade. Bad for DB damage output; good for uninstalling everything else. It's like this in the other games in case you're wondering.

 

[PEACE7]

Is upair into fsmash ever a thing?

 

[Vipermoon]

Is upair into fsmash ever a thing?

Of course. You didn't have to ask. It's very easy to try in training.

 

[PEACE7]

Of course. You didn't have to ask. It's very easy to try in training.

Well i don't have access to a WiiU at the moment and that's pretty much what the thread is for questions and answers so yea. Thank you for your reply.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Aside from Mister E and Pugwest, are there any Marth mains I should be looking at for inspiration? I ask because I've had a Marth for a while but recently, I've gone through some really strange level up with him out of nowhere. And now people are telling me I should be playing this character. I was reluctant to before but seeing so many Marth players at Get On My Level has me reconsidering. Any thoughts?

 

[Vipermoon]

False. Do a youtube search of whatever False Marth content you can find. He's a solid secondary for False and I often see his Marth doing some really stylish and optimal shiz.

Edit: and take note that Mr. E uses smash stick and doesn't use tilts NEARLY as much as he needs to. I love his Marth but Dtilt is too good of a spacing/pressure tool and Ftilt is nearly broken against some characters. Hopefully you use tilt stick (I thought I asked you before and you told me you did).

Jab has a lot of potential too since its frame buff

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

False. Do a youtube search of whatever False Marth content you can find. He's a solid secondary for False and I often see his Marth doing some really stylish and optimal shiz.

Edit: and take note that Mr. E uses smash stick and doesn't use tilts NEARLY as much as he needs to. I love his Marth but Dtilt is too good of a spacing/pressure tool and Ftilt is nearly broken against some characters. Hopefully you use tilt stick (I thought I asked you before and you told me you did).

Jab has a lot of potential too since its frame buff

Thanks! Also yes, I've been using Tilt Stick for a while now. I see the merit of Smash Stick for Marth but I also think Tilt is the way to go.

 

[Tsutori]

Pit/Dark Pit main here. What are some good stages to pick against Marth?

 

[Locuan]

Pit/Dark Pit main here. What are some good stages to pick against Marth?

I believe it is heavily match-up dependent and my experience in the Pit/Dark Pit match-up is definitely lacking. CHOMPY do you have any suggestions?

 

[CHOMPY]

Generally, you want to avoid taking Marth to smaller stages like Battlefield, Dreamland, or Lylat Cruise that can easily hit the player on a platform with a fsmash or usmash, and even an utilt can reach.. The more space you have against Marth, the easier it is to get around his sword and not get pressured into a corner. Marth's dolphin slash is impossible to challenge, so you pretty much have to respect it. However, you can hop backwards and pressure him with your arrows and possibly gimp him with a falling fair that way. Marth doesn't have the greatest recovery, horizontal wise, so that could be your one way out if you manage to sucessfully take his jump with an arrow, or push him back with a falling fair. NEVER LEDGE GETUP ATTACK. I REPEAT. NEVER EVER LEDGE GETUP ATTACK. By doing that, Marth can easily space it out and whack you with a tipper fsmash and your dead. The less platforms Marth has to work with, the less of those B-reverse shananaginz you have to deal with. If you are on a platform, the best thing to do is jump away and try your best to reset the neutral and bait Marth into doing something silly.

Hope my advice helps.

 

[Vipermoon]

Pit can dash attack any of Marth's landing aerials, even retreated. So that's a big deal. But I personally am okay with the MU but in the few times I had to play it in tourney I would get CP'ed to FD by the Pits.

 

[iDaire]

1. How does Marth deal with on shield pressure?
2. What habits should I be looking for that helps Marth win the neutral?
3. Speaking of which, how does Marth properly play the neutral?
4. How does Marth properly play the disadvantage?
5. Is there anyone that can help me practice my Marth or at least give me pointers?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Howdy, Marths! After all the attention he's gotten in patches, what are your opinions on his professional viability?

 

[A_Kae]

Howdy, Marths! After all the attention he's gotten in patches, what are your opinions on his professional viability?

I think he's decent at this point, but he's held back by too many bad matchups with certain top tier characters to be any better than about upper mid tier or so (although I guess that depends on how exactly define that). The patches have made him much much better than he used to be but he still has some flaws holding him back. Still, the results that players like False have been getting with him are quite good.

But that's just my opinion, I'm sure other Marth mains have different thoughts on this.

 

[Halcy0n]

Howdy, Marths! After all the attention he's gotten in patches, what are your opinions on his professional viability?

Solid mid to upper mid, but that tipper fsmash is scary.

 

[C0rvus]

What are the key matchups that hold Marth back? The character certainly has plenty of high/top level exposure, and is clearly quite good, but not top tier or anything. As someone who plays a lot of Corrin but misses going offstage, Marth looks very enticing to me. Any reason I shouldn't make the switch? Or anything I should know before I make such a decision?

 

[PEACE7]

Can someone tell me some of the uses for dair aside its obvious meant use to spike people offstage

 

[Vipermoon]

You just... use it I guess. In general in weird situations when you feel that it's the only way to hit someone below/diagonal from you. And/or maybe you need a move that starts from behind and ends up front. Then you have sourspot combo starting abilities or an air dodge read that follows. The biggest thing is that even sour, Dair does a ton of damage.

 

[LordShade67]

I imagine this isn't the place for it, but can someone drop Marth vs. LM MU stuff? I've tried looking for high level footage as reference, but so far nada.

 

[Vipermoon]

LOL! Funny that you ask that. It isn't on youtube yet as this happened last night but we have twitch. Little Mac vs. Marth crew battle showcasing the different playstyles of all of the top Marths and how they adapt to a bunch of Mac playstyles (including Sol). And because the Marths obliterated, Mr. E didn't even get to play so... Sol and him ended up playing a best of 5 set at the end. You hit the jackpot, enjoy.

(it was Macs that made the challenge)

 

[LordShade67]

LOL! Funny that you ask that. It isn't on youtube yet as this happened last night but we have twitch. Little Mac vs. Marth crew battle showcasing the different playstyles of all of the top Marths and how they adapt to a bunch of Mac playstyles (including Sol). And because the Marths obliterated, Mr. E didn't even get to play so... Sol and him ended up playing a best of 5 set at the end. You hit the jackpot, enjoy.

(it was Macs that made the challenge)

Oh cool! Perfect timing, lol.

 

[Zarxrax]

I'm wondering what are marth's safest moves on shield, for poking around in neutral?

 

[Shaya]

Down Tilt and Neutral Air - all of his tippered aerials and ground moves can be deceptively hard to punish too.
He requires spacing to be safe though, always.

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[NeoFranky]

So, I have a friend that plays Mario and I have the following question:
1) How can I punish an approach Mario's his dair, it's rather safe on it's endlag and since it hits a lot of times you can't grab it either.
2) What's a good way to land against Mario, since his up air beats Marth's down-air and his speed makes him hard to shake off

3) Is there a cue or something that can help me time Marth's Dancing Blade seamlessly, as Mario can mash up B between the attacks if one drops the string. Also is a particular attack in dancing blade safer than the others?

 

[Litany]

So, I have a friend that plays Mario and I have the following question:
1) How can I punish an approach Mario's his dair, it's rather safe on it's endlag and since it hits a lot of times you can't grab it either.
2) What's a good way to land against Mario, since his up air beats Marth's down-air and his speed makes him hard to shake off

3) Is there a cue or something that can help me time Marth's Dancing Blade seamlessly, as Mario can mash up B between the attacks if one drops the string. Also is a particular attack in dancing blade safer than the others?

Q1: Mario's D-air is -12 on shield when landing. That's not enough time to OoS grab, but you can OoS Up-B to hit him. Also, it has little range, meaning a F-air or B-air can easily beat it in the air.

Q2: Marth's landing options aren't great unfortunately. You can try and mix up your landings with B-reversed Neutral-B, but I recommend not trying to land onstage at all - rather, resetting to the ledge.

Q3: There isn't really a cue per se. You can't mash the button; you have to be deliberate with your button presses. If it helps, try saying 1-2-3-4 in your head. In terms of safety, the downward variation of Side-B is safest on shield (being -30, with the neutral variation being -38 and the upwards variation being -34). However, the downward variation lasts the longest as well, meaning if you miss entirely it is the least safe.

 

[Clintendo64]

I'm having trouble with finding the best recovery option, the safest I have found so far is a sheild breaker to grabbing the ledge. I feel like there is a safer and easier approach, but I am somehow missing it. I also use the up b after falling, but it's too predictable and punishable by people like fox, falco, link, etc...

 

[Litany]

I'm having trouble with finding the best recovery option, the safest I have found so far is a sheild breaker to grabbing the ledge. I feel like there is a safer and easier approach, but I am somehow missing it. I also use the up b after falling, but it's too predictable and punishable by people like fox, falco, link, etc...

How exactly do you recover? Marth's Up-B is pretty safe for the most part as long as you recover from below.

 

[DariusM27]

How exactly do you recover? Marth's Up-B is pretty safe for the most part as long as you recover from below.

There are some cases where it's better to recover high, like if Villager is charging bowling ball Fsmash or if someone is going low to gimp you.

 

[CURRY]

I'm having trouble with finding the best recovery option, the safest I have found so far is a sheild breaker to grabbing the ledge. I feel like there is a safer and easier approach, but I am somehow missing it. I also use the up b after falling, but it's too predictable and punishable by people like fox, falco, link, etc...

Shield breaker is laggy, unsafe, predictable, and easy to gimp, I feel. I personally only use it if I'm really, really far away from the ledge and/or at a bad angle. Marth's airspeed is usually good enough that jump -> up B near the ledge is good enough to get you back. Also, never charge shieldbreaker. It ends up with you going at mach speed with no protective hitbox, and players can get you. And if you go under the stage because of charged shieldbreaker and you have no jump, you're a little screwed.

Save your jump. As a rule of thumb, I just up-B if I'm in the range of the ledge because it's fast, and some people don't know that you can interrupt it. And if you DO you janked out of your up-B, that jump you saved will be useful because although up-B is not a very good horizontal recovery, your jump is a decent one.

If you're practically above the ledge and the opponent is grounded and trying to get you with a smash or something, you can fastfall airdodge past the ledge -> up-B. Marth's fastfall is pretty fast, so you can time it so that your invincibility frames can last until you pass the ledge. It's how Mr. E recovers here:
https://youtu.be/INgQ2TtoNEc?t=1m39s
That being said, you also need to know how to do this safely. Up-B isn't exactly a recovery that can get you back from the depths of hell, and a fastfalled airdodge can get you too low to recover if you don't do it properly.

If your opponent is jumping off to gimp you, avoid them (they want you to jump or Up-B into them), wait until they commit to doing a move (therefore, they go back to the stage, because characters can only stay off to gimp someone for so long) then use your jump and up-B. Usually, you save your jump for these kinds of situations.

 

[ElementUser]

Question about Dancing Blade: is there any reason to use the Down variation for the 3rd hit if you're not going for the 4th Down hit? And how about the Up variation in general? Usually just holding Side throughout does the trick for me in most cases.

 

[Vipermoon]

Question about Dancing Blade: is there any reason to use the Down variation for the 3rd hit if you're not going for the 4th Down hit? And how about the Up variation in general? Usually just holding Side throughout does the trick for me in most cases.

There are many uses of down-3.
1) safer on shield if you were to end the combo since it comes out on frame 8 instead of 6 for side-3, meaning less end lag
2) marth steps back after striking. A lot of people miss their punish (like a shield grab or some misspaced attack) if they forget about this
3) it does more low percent knockback than the others which means it provides more hitstun for a 4th hit
4) it can lead into the tipper side-4 hit
5) 0.5% more damage

The up variation is good for when you dancing blade someone who is already in the air; side variation might've missed instead. The other thing is the up variation is a kill confirm into the 4-up tipper at about 100% on fast fallers (Sheik, Fox, etc.)

 

[NeoFranky]

I have two questions:
1) What are the better ways to deal with the charged ball projectiles of Samus, Lucario and Mewtwo?

2) What are good ways to deal with Mewtwo? I really hate dealing with this guy, his range with his tail and his insane up smash.

 

[DariusM27]

I have two questions:
1) What are the better ways to deal with the charged ball projectiles of Samus, Lucario and Mewtwo?

2) What are good ways to deal with Mewtwo? I really hate dealing with this guy, his range with his tail and his insane up smash.

1. Perfect shield to whatever. Ftilt or something.
You can act instantly out of a perfect shield, but you have to tap shield, release, and input the move - quickly and all in consecutive order. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Kq75NvbYg&t=0m25s
I still don't see the top Marth players use this really, but it could help them sooo much. I see Mr E use P.Shield to insta-jump fair sometimes, but I don't think it's as good as a grounded option.
You can even simply walk - p.shield - walk, ZeRo does that a lot.
I think it works if you P.shield - roll also.
But you have to be ready for their response, whatever you choose, but it all hinges on getting the perfect shield.

2. I don't have too much problem with Mew2 personally. He is gimmicky and our aerials outrange most anything he can do. You mainly want to avoid getting Faird.
Walk and P.Shield is good, but you also have to read their dash grab attempts. However, mixing in some dash trotting and movement in general will keep him guessing, but when it really comes down to approaching him, I would rely on walking.
From there, you can hit him with Ftilt, raising Nair, hold shield against his Nair or Dash attack.
It's all about the reads, but I think Mewtwos are pretty predictible because they don't usually have to be "tricky" vs Marths, because they aren't used to respecting us, they are used to walking all over us.
(A La Pug - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az2FZlNAdfw)

Pugwest basically did the opposite of my strategy vs Mewtwo, and that's why he got bodied hard, imo. The MU is in Mewtwo's favor, but Marth can make it about 55 - 45 if he knows the MU, imo.

 

[Vipermoon]

Wadi is one of the best Mewtwos out there. I watched this match in person, Mr. E pretty much had it in the bag. Still I don't think Marth does that amazing against M2 because of Shadow ball camping against a character without a good dash to shield. But he really does struggle against the swords. You just have to read his movement like Mr. E successfully did. It is very difficult to do given how many options Mewtwo has with ledge cancel teleports, invisible air dodges, Nair, good aerial mobility, and an air stalling special move.