Q&A The Marth Question and Answer Thread

[Vipermoon]

Haha thanks Akaneia for the win.
Which of Marth's games have you played? I've only played Shadow Dragon so far, hoping to play New Mystery of The Emblem sometime.

I've only played those two plus Awakening. I really want to play Binding Blade and especially The Blazing Sword.

 

[Jterr]

I've only played those two plus Awakening. I really want to play Binding Blade and especially The Blazing Sword.

Ah I see. What was your first then? Radiant Dawn was my first, but I didn't play it much. Then Awakening, Rekka no Ken(Blazing Sword), Shadow Dragon, Sacred Stones, and a little of Binding Blade. FE is amazing

 

[Vipermoon]

Ah I see. What was your first then? Radiant Dawn was my first, but I didn't play it much. Then Awakening, Rekka no Ken(Blazing Sword), Shadow Dragon, Sacred Stones, and a little of Binding Blade. FE is amazing

Mystery of the Emblem. It really is.

 

[Bonk!]

Why don't I see many Marths taking advantage of SHDB? I know the follow ups aren't guaranteed, but I seem to have success with it on the ladder against gold level players.

 

[DariusM27]

Why don't I see many Marths taking advantage of SHDB? I know the follow ups aren't guaranteed, but I seem to have success with it on the ladder against gold level players.

I use it. It's almost a certain kill setup at higher percents

 

[DariusM27]

I use it. It's almost a certain kill setup at higher percents

Does anyone think Marth will be getting any changes on the next patch?

 

[Jterr]

Does anyone think Marth will be getting any changes on the next patch?

I hope he will. Some good buffs

 

[Bonk!]

I don't see a reason why Marth wouldn't get a buff. I think that his neutral is pretty great as is with his safe aerials and airdodge shenanigans, but what could really use some improvement is his combo game, specifically in the air. It seems so silly that Roy is able to link multiple f-airs and u-airs together as true combos, year Marth can have a hard time doing the same without relying on reading an airdodge.

I don't think he needs any new combos off of grabs because I strongly believe that he gets as much mileage out of Dancing Blade as he would for a grab combo.

Overall, I'd be pretty disappointed if the Falchions didn't get SOMETHING.

 

[Vipermoon]

I'd be fine if all they did was fix his hitboxes so the character can feel, you know, finished.

 

[moofpi]

From my experience and the combo threads;

Falling up air > up tilt is an awesome combo

fair>ftilt; Sometimes fair topples or knocks down an opponent and you can follow with a f tilt
1st hit of nair combos into other things; ex. 1st hit nair > jab 1 > f smash
SH db1>1st hit nair>jab>fsmash too but is punishable vs. opponents that know about it

do keep in mind DB can be canceled by pressing other buttons like A, so you can DB 1-3 on shield, (or you think the other DB hits will miss) then use another attack like up tilt or down tilt

Is there somewhere around here I can read more about DB set ups and using DB 1 for other uses? I'm not good at navigating through the Q&A for it. I saw in a really good Marth combo video they repeatedly got SH DB 1 to Dair at the ledge and I think that's fantastic.

 

[Mr. ShinyUmbreon]

Hey, I've been picking up Marth recently, I main Pit so midrange spacing is nothing new to me. But what moves should I be using to Punish with Marth? I've been looking at Jab1 for starting a combo but are there any other good combo starters?

 

[Jterr]

Hey, I've been picking up Marth recently, I main Pit so midrange spacing is nothing new to me. But what moves should I be using to Punish with Marth? I've been looking at Jab1 for starting a combo but are there any other good combo starters?

Falling up air to up tilt is a true combo and falling up air can link into nair or F smash. Also First hit of nair combos as well, shorthop dancing blade also.

 

[DariusM27]

Is there somewhere around here I can read more about DB set ups and using DB 1 for other uses? I'm not good at navigating through the Q&A for it. I saw in a really good Marth combo video they repeatedly got SH DB 1 to Dair at the ledge and I think that's fantastic.

Nair 1 can true combo into jab or up b almost always.

Nair 1 can string into grab, dtilt, dancing blade, ect, and fsmash at mid to high percents.

Air dancing blade 1 connects most effectively at 90 to 110%, any lower and the hit stun won't be long enough to get nair1, any higher and you'll probably not connect nair1. After you land nair1, move under them and usmash for most reliable kills.

Also, airdodge to nair1 can work the same or similar ways.

 

[Jenna Zant]

My friend mains Marth in every game, but he doesn't like Smash 4 Marth as much as he used to, mainly because he's laggier and has a shorter sword. I tried encouraging him, but it didn't seem to work, but he's dead set on maining Marth, because he doesn't seem to want to switch characters. What can I do to help him with Marth?

 

[Locuan]

My friend mains Marth in every game, but he doesn't like Smash 4 Marth as much as he used to, mainly because he's laggier and has a shorter sword. I tried encouraging him, but it didn't seem to work, but he's dead set on maining Marth, because he doesn't seem to want to switch characters. What can I do to help him with Marth?

Marth's sword isn't shorter. That's a misconception.
http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-data.379064/#post-18062624

Link him the many guides and threads we have on Marth. They can help any Marth main get insanely better. Everything is categorized on the Competitive Resource Thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/read-me-marths-competitive-resource-thread.382874/
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-blade-of-two-fates-marth-lucina-guide.379525/

 

[DariusM27]

He needs to either put in the study and work himself, or he won't improve. There are tons of good articles on Marth Smashboards. He needs to learn his options and strategize, or he's toast.

 

[Jenna Zant]

Alright. I'll link him to those when I get home, but we rarely ever play against anyone other than each offline. We're both of similar skill levels, so it tends to swap between us. He also has some problems with salt, and I think that's holding him back a little bit. He's also trying to break from his sandbagging habit, as he used to play against us when we were really bad, so he could give us a winning chance. Any help with these problems?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Alright. I'll link him to those when I get home, but we rarely ever play against anyone other than each offline. We're both of similar skill levels, so it tends to swap between us. He also has some problems with salt, and I think that's holding him back a little bit. He's also trying to break from his sandbagging habit, as he used to play against us when we were really bad, so he could give us a winning chance. Any help with these problems?

I find that if you stick with the character through thick and thin regardless, you learn even more about them. I was so excited when I saw how quick Roy looked. It made me think I had found an answer for a better Marth, and though he is arguably better than Marth, it took me to play Roy for a week or so to realise that he wasn't for me, and it made me realise all the things I liked about Marth, and it also highlighted what exactly Marth can do for me. I have come to respect Marth more in Smash 4 after putting aside his differences and dealing with what he has now. Though I can wish for things like better throws and maybe a bit less laggier aerials, but what he has works this time. Though not OP or easily abusable like in last game, he works nonetheless.

But regardless, just keep in mind options from previous games are not always the best choice this time around (looking at you Fair). As mentioned above, there are plenty of guides on Smashboards that can help. Personal favourites of mine to do with Marth include rising Fair into falling Nair, Dancing Blade Down 4 tech chases at lower percents, Utilt and Uair juggles etc. Nair is your least laggiest aerial this time around, so keep that in mind.

 

[Shaya]

Well okay then. That's what I get for trusting Shaya and not checking.

Jterr I like your location

__________________________

Edit: Did anyone know that if you Jab and hold the A button it automatically does Jab 2? I never noticed that.

Well I most recently provided those numbers purely from dantarion dumps; although I can see that misunderstanding the number 6 as not the frame invincibility ends but rather the frame you're no longer invincible. But that would, I thought, not be how dodges work out from memory.
AND it's been a long time so I wouldn't say it's a definite but I thought I had seen through use that he was invincible on frame 6 to a little mac jab, but that would've been tested on 3DS over a year ago.

 

[CURRY]

shayasdflkj<3

never scare us like that again

EDIT:
sorry, thought this was the social.

 

[HoSmash4]

What are Marth's bread and butter combos/frame traps on fast fallers? (Sheik)

 

[DariusM27]

this is a post concerning marth video

 

[Vipermoon]

this is a post concerning marth video

Start here http://smashboards.com/threads/seizon-senryaku-marth-general.366765/page-81#post-20812634 then keep going

 

[Someturtlesaregreen]

I'm not really a big Sm4sh player, but it's obvious to anyone that his Dair spike hitbox is like the size of an electron in this game. I was playing a match and I landed the dair spike in the center of his blade. I'm wondering if I landed this because of Marth's dair hitbox or Captain Falcon's hurtbox.


https://gfycat.com/SleepyCrispHarrier

 

[Vipermoon]

I'm not really a big Sm4sh player, but it's obvious to anyone that his Dair spike hitbox is like the size of an electron. I was playing a match and I landed the dair spike in a weird way. I'm wondering if I landed this because of Marth's dair hitbox or Captain Falcon's hurtbox.


https://gfycat.com/SleepyCrispHarrier

This belongs in the Marth Q&A thread but Locuan can move both of our posts there.

I don't know how much you know so I'll explain it all (anyone else reading this can learn so don't be offended if you know most of this).

Anyway, the way it works is that there are active frames which are frames with hitboxes. Frame by frame, Marth's sword and sword trail moves. There exists circular (spherical, actually) hitboxes and in the case of Dair and almost all of Marth's other moves, they're on the sword and on his arm. Two on the sword and one on the arm. Marth has hitboxes on Dair from frames 9-13. On frame 11 ONLY, the other hitboxes are ignored and a new, single hitbox is active for just that frame. It is actually a pretty big hitbox, it's just that you have to ensure that frame 10 or 12 doesn't interrupt you getting frame 11.

Frame 11 is when Marth's sword is facing straight down. As long as you first connect a hitbox to a hurtbox on frame 11, it will spike. And there is no tipper, like I said it's a big, lone hitbox and that's it. Now watch your video... you hit Falcon when your sword was facing straight down. So it's fine that he wasn't 'tipper' spaced. If there is one benefit of Marth's Dair swinging from behind him, it's that you can be facing forward and not worry about the other frames if spaced well.

It's still a crappy Dair spike but there you go, now you should be better at getting it.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Hey Marths, I have a question. After the buffs, is it safe for Marth to do a landing Fair on shield if properly spaced? I play Marth/Lucina for fun and wanted to know if this is a viable tool I can use for pressure.

 

[Vipermoon]

Hey Marths, I have a question. After the buffs, is it safe for Marth to do a landing Fair on shield if properly spaced? I play Marth/Lucina for fun and wanted to know if this is a viable tool I can use for pressure.

Do it as close to the ground as possible and yes, nothing will punish it. Just react to what they do out of shield.

 

[Login_Sinker]

Do it as close to the ground as possible and yes, nothing will punish it. Just react to what they do out of shield.

Awesome. Do you know if this works with Lucina as well, or just Marth?

 

[ILOVESMASH]

What are Marth's landing options? I've been struggling against characters like Mario and ZSS since they can juggle me to death percents and most of the moves I have been using to land such as Nair and Fair don't hit the opponent in time.

 

[Vipermoon]

Yes Lucina can safely Fair.

You have to switch things up. Landing isn't a strong suit for Marth. One time fast fall into shield. Another do it into spot dodge, another into roll. Land into a grab if you conditioned them to shield an aerial. Don't fast fall another time. Do air dodge then Nair 1 or Dancing Blade multi-hit right before you hit the ground. Go to the ledge. Stall with Dancing Blade and mix with fast fall mind games. Never fall in the same direction every time and try to switch directions mid-fall. Sometimes going into your opponent and landing just barely behind them can work depending on conditioning. Almost never use Counter or Dair.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

So after watching some Marth tournament play, I realized that in this Sm4sh, Marth has a heavy emphasis on spacing and defensive style, hence why he is brutality by rushdown characters, at least for me, I have least trouble against these characters as Lucina, do I really need a change in tactics?

 

[Halcy0n]

Not sure ifs its been asked already but here are a couple questions:

1. Does Corrin have anything over us?
2. Is it a good idea to play slow and precise with Marth?
3. Is Marth's tipper stronger in smash 4 compared to previous games?

 

[DariusM27]

Not to change the subject, but huge congrats to Pugwest for his performance a victory in a recent tourny, taking first place and beating Marrs, one of the best zss players!
The videos are here. https://youtu.be/hJp-Y47NsPY

 

[Milli]

I apologize if there is already a thread for this, I'm a tad new here. The title generally says it all, I have zero problems extended dash dancing with other characters I play, but with Marth I can't seem to get it consistently. Any tips to get it down with Marth? Perhaps something like showing me where I should change direction?

Thanks in advance, I apologize if this was a stupid question or thread.

 

[DariusM27]

I apologize if there is already a thread for this, I'm a tad new here. The title generally says it all, I have zero problems extended dash dancing with other characters I play, but with Marth I can't seem to get it consistently. Any tips to get it down with Marth? Perhaps something like showing me where I should change direction?

Thanks in advance, I apologize if this was a stupid question or thread.

I think I have called it dance trotting. So if we are talking about the same thing, I know I had to practice in training mode for a few weeks before it could work, and it still isn't always consistent. On the other hand, it isn't some broken advanced tech that helps Marth out greatly either, tbh.

 

[Milli]

I think I have called it dance trotting. So if we are talking about the same thing, I know I had to practice in training mode for a few weeks before it could work, and it still isn't always consistent. On the other hand, it isn't some broken advanced tech that helps Marth out greatly either, tbh.

My mistake, and yes we're talking about the same thing. It's weird to me that I can do it consistently on zss, yet not Marth. Do you have anything specific you'd reccomend to improve my Marth movement then? Besides the fundamentals that is.

 

[DariusM27]

My mistake, and yes we're talking about the same thing. It's weird to me that I can do it consistently on zss, yet not Marth. Do you have anything specific you'd reccomend to improve my Marth movement then? Besides the fundamentals that is.

About the dash dancing, if you practice at half speed in training mode, and if you are good at rhythm, double that speed in your head and memorize it. That helped me.

Movement wise, airdodge to air attacks can be great, if used intelligently.

Empty short hops to dtilt is better than ever because of added range.
Same goes for dash into shield then dtilt.

You can spam sh nair if you use the right inputs in the right situations.
For instance, if you dash, sh nair, and fastfall with exactly those inputs, you'll likely get punished on shield.
(But if it hits, it's a great combo starter)
But if you dash, sh nair, instantly DI the opposite direction, then fastfall, then you will be applying safe pressure on shield and it has a great chance on catching standing opponents even at 0%.

Never fastfall fair, dair, or Nair into a shield.

Constantly move in and out of opponents dash attack range.

Pressuring with empty sh to fastfall grabs and sometimes a well timed turning shieldbreaker tipper will keep them from spaming shield.

You have the fastest walk speed in the game, so use it.

 

[Milli]

About the dash dancing, if you practice at half speed in training mode, and if you are good at rhythm, double that speed in your head and memorize it. That helped me.

Movement wise, airdodge to air attacks can be great, if used intelligently.

Empty short hops to dtilt is better than ever because of added range.
Same goes for dash into shield then dtilt.

You can spam sh nair if you use the right inputs in the right situations.
For instance, if you dash, sh nair, and fastfall with exactly those inputs, you'll likely get punished on shield.
(But if it hits, it's a great combo starter)
But if you dash, sh nair, instantly DI the opposite direction, then fastfall, then you will be applying safe pressure on shield and it has a great chance on catching standing opponents even at 0%.

Never fastfall fair, dair, or Nair into a shield.

Constantly move in and out of opponents dash attack range.

Pressuring with empty sh to fastfall grabs and sometimes a well timed turning shieldbreaker tipper will keep them from spaming shield.

You have the fastest walk speed in the game, so use it.

Thanks alot, I appreciate it!

 

[ItsFX]

Probably a stupid question, but lately I've been toying with the idea of a dash>shorthop>Dair approach against small fighters like kirby/jigglypuff? It seems to catch people off guard from time to time. So yeah, is it a reasonable idea or is it too risky?

 

[Ssbm_Jag]

I don't want to overwrite the question stated before this, so please take a look at the previous post as well.

My question is how Marths often find themselves to be edge-guarded. I play Wario and I'm facing the dilemma as to whether I should go off stage and try to f-air you before you're in range to up-b, or should I just play it safe and maybe try to toss a bike from stage. Bike definitely works, but for Marth, because your dolphin slash's vertical recovery is insane, it doesn't really matter, and even if the bike bounces on marth he can still recover.

Also, is Marth's nair his safest tool in neutral? From the frame data it would seem like it since it has basically no lag and can be spaced. As Wario, I don't think I can punish it.