Nike.
Smash Hero
I realized my mistake a few minutes ago, so I changed it to the marth boards lol.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
The Marth Matchup Ratio Thread (V2)
- Thread starter Nike.
- Start date
Anaky
Smash Champion
Yeah i think its pretty accurate as well. T just hatin on Marth vs Dedede matchup cuz or Ramin.
Anyway the ones im really confident with are:
0
+1
Theres more i could say but those 3 are my 3 most confident.
Anyway the ones im really confident with are:
0
+1
Theres more i could say but those 3 are my 3 most confident.
Anaky
Smash Champion
Ohh and Nike im really DISSAPOINTED with all your -2's. Also you didn't put my list on yet haha.
Nike.
Smash Hero
You didn't list anything that disagreed with the list lol. Falco Fox Snake are already listed like how you had it. Are there any matchups you DON'T agree with? :O
I'm really negative about our losing matchups lol. DDD is the only one I can understand as a -1. I've lost to every metaknight in my state at some point, I'm terrible at the MU. Watching Mikehaze vs any diddy on youtube is just painful, it really looks like we have no approach game and dum gimmicks destroy alot of our BnB
Anaky
Smash Champion
Ohh right i see now, ur just doing changes, in that case.
+1
+2
Rest is fine.
+1
+2
Rest is fine.
Teh Future
Smash Master
+2 olimar
+1 D3 mk kirby
rest doesn't matter
imo, might be forgetting some but most matchups are even or better
+1 D3 mk kirby
rest doesn't matter
imo, might be forgetting some but most matchups are even or better
Yeah, no offense Nike, you're great at a good number of MUs, but you're just terrible vs MK, lol. But you know that so w/e. You just need to play it more and really get used to it. It's hard, but it's definitely not -2.You didn't list anything that disagreed with the list lol. Falco Fox Snake are already listed like how you had it. Are there any matchups you DON'T agree with? :O
I'm really negative about our losing matchups lol. DDD is the only one I can understand as a -1. I've lost to every metaknight in my state at some point, I'm terrible at the MU. Watching Mikehaze vs any diddy on youtube is just painful, it really looks like we have no approach game and dum gimmicks destroy alot of our BnB
Diddy definitely isn't -2. Mike used to be pretty bad at the MU, but, after watching his set vs DEHF's (lol?) diddy, he definitely is getting better at it.
I'm so confused.
if you meant -1, well, we definitely don't lose to kirby, lol
If you mean +1, please explain how we beat DDD and MK.
EDIT:
Mind explaining Ike? We're more mobile than him, and can gimp him, but that's it. It's actually a really annoying MU.Ohh right i see now, ur just doing changes, in that case.
+1
+2
Rest is fine.
Also, Wario is actually pretty easy as Marth. You just have to be willing to play as gay as possible. jab, ftilt, nair, bair, pivot grab. Wario has a REALLY hard time getting in. And when he does manage to, it's not hard to push him back out.
Diddy is marth's hardest MU in your opinion?Diddy is easily -2. You all overrate Marth so much ... especially Anaky and Kadaj imo =/
Btw all you scrubby marths just donno how to play vs deethree
Anaky
Smash Champion
Well I haven't exactly played an amazing Diddy but i REALLY cannot see it being -2, ive seen a lot of vids and i can see its not THAT bad.
As with Ike, i say +2 bcuz he's just too slow and his recovery sucks, ecspecially against Marth, Ike has to play REALLY well (better than the opponent) to win.
With Wario i just dont see Marth beating Wario that bad, only thing we have against him is range pretty much, he also has speed, doesn't die early and uair does 17%. He doesn't have that much of a problem at times gettign in either, we cant play perfect.
And LOL Gheb, i dont overate Marth, i just dont see Marth having any matchups worse than -1. Id say Meta and Diddy are the hardest, but still no worse than -1. Marth is a very SOLID character.
As with Ike, i say +2 bcuz he's just too slow and his recovery sucks, ecspecially against Marth, Ike has to play REALLY well (better than the opponent) to win.
With Wario i just dont see Marth beating Wario that bad, only thing we have against him is range pretty much, he also has speed, doesn't die early and uair does 17%. He doesn't have that much of a problem at times gettign in either, we cant play perfect.
And LOL Gheb, i dont overate Marth, i just dont see Marth having any matchups worse than -1. Id say Meta and Diddy are the hardest, but still no worse than -1. Marth is a very SOLID character.
Saki-
Reset Project
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
0:
+1:
+2:
gallax
Smash Hero
Id have to go with +1 with kirby after playing with chudat for an entire week.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
It's pretty hard for wario to get in on Marth if you are zoning him out Anaky, almost to a point where he has to take hella risks before he can do any solid damage.
The more I think about it, the more the majority of the cast has to do that vs Marth
The more I think about it, the more the majority of the cast has to do that vs Marth
Anaky
Smash Champion
I refuse to beileve it is +2 to us.
gallax
Smash Hero
SO do I. Its just not possible!!!
Akashi
Smash Lord
Ike isn't slow against Marth, in fact he has a pretty easy time keeping up with him if it isn't a flat stage. The reason why the MU is so hard for him is bc Marth resets so well that we can play safe almost the entire time and NEVER commit. I personally think the Mu is +1 on stage bc of Ike's guaranteed high damage cqc, but +3 off stage. Imo we gimp him just as hard as mk, with just as much options. +2 overall.
Akashi
Smash Lord
lol sorry i was in a rush, so i worded that bad. I meant to say we gimp him just as well as mk gimps ike
smashkng
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure Ike can also gimp Marth. And onstage Marth has a little bit better mobility though not by too much but Ike still outranges Marth and he has Bair to challenge Marth's Fair. Note that Bthrow to Dash Attack is a true combo at mid percents and that can help Ike putting Marth offstage in a fairly low angle.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Only discrepancy I have is that I believe Wario should be +1.
-1:
0:
1:
2:
3:
zhao_guang
Smash Lord
Anaky
Smash Champion
As Shaya said, 55:45 does not mean +1 and 7:3 does not mean +4 etc.
Akashi
Smash Lord
ike can't harass marth offstage, and all of his options put him in a bad position afterwards. Walk-off fair and dair can be avoided and countered; and reverse aether will trade with dolphin slash if you time it right. Ike's best bet is to grab the ledge and make marth guess. Lastly, bthrow to dash attack isn't guaranteed at any % against marth. DI down and tech towards him to get out
smashkng
Smash Lord
You can't tech Ike's Dash Attack until mid-high percents. If Marth Fairs offstage Ike can punish it during the cooldown offstage because Ike's Fair has more range. Ike can still punish Marth offstage by reading his option though yeah that's very risky except edge hogging. About edge hogging, that's pretty much a guaranteed Fair for Ike and if Marth lands close to the ledge, an Uair which can kill at around 110% at stage height.
I think this is only slight advantage for Marth, but if +2 means 60/40 then I can agree with that but I can't see the Marth MU being any harder for Ike. Against MK I usually play very centered so I rarely fall offstage. MK's near infinite amount of options and speed gives more problems than his gimp game itself. Marth doesn't have as that many options as MK has and doesn't have anything that shuts Ike down onstage.
I think this is only slight advantage for Marth, but if +2 means 60/40 then I can agree with that but I can't see the Marth MU being any harder for Ike. Against MK I usually play very centered so I rarely fall offstage. MK's near infinite amount of options and speed gives more problems than his gimp game itself. Marth doesn't have as that many options as MK has and doesn't have anything that shuts Ike down onstage.
Akashi
Smash Lord
Wow, really?
edit: I'll remind you again that I think it's +2 overall for Marth. +1 on stage, +3 off.
First off, are you just thinking of scenarios in your head, or have you been in them? I feel like your theory crafting a lot, which is alright I guess, but the scenarios you're making up aren't going to happen realistically. Marth never has to hop off-stage to guard Ike. He can counter on the edge or ledge, fsmash if your far enough that you can't drag Aether to interrupt him, or DS OoS at the height of Ike's aether. Fair is a possibility for Marth, sure, but it should only be used as a read due to our better juggle options.Smashkng said:
Once you're off-stage you shouldn't come back, which was my point.
It's +1 for Marth on-stage, imo, because his main way of shutting Ike down is by reseting his position. Ike may outrange us, but range doesn't matter when you have to commit. The only safe moves you have for range is retreating nairs on our shield, full-hop fair, and retreating fair. Even though, all of them can be reacted on and punished
edit: I'll remind you again that I think it's +2 overall for Marth. +1 on stage, +3 off.
smashkng
Smash Lord
I never said Ike isn't easy to gimp for Marth, because he really is, especially because his aerials have such fast start-up and are disjointed. I agree that unless the Ike has godly teching and amazing DI, Marth's offstage options pretty much shut down Ike completely there when Ike has to recover. I've got gimped tons of times by this char when I was offstage. DIing really well and recovering high with QD and taking a little damage when landing onstage from the punishment is probably the best option most of the time lol, his offstage options against Ike are just so broken. That's why I say that playing centered is the best option for Ike. That's the part of the stage where it's hardest to put someone offstage.
But onstage you didn't even mention Bair Akashi, that move is 7 frames which is more than fast enough I think to prevent Marth from winning by spamming Fair unless I play a Marth with insane spacing who can prove me otherwise. I do it and it works at least against the Marths I've played. I often wait for the Marth to pull out the Fair 1st and then I hit him during the cooldown. I'm not sure if it outranges Marth's Fair though. I don't think you can react to Fair or Nair either unless your reaction time is Ally godly. About the Fair it was when MARTH was offstage, not viceversa and it was mostly nothing more than a bait or a surprise attack to say that Marth isn't impossible to edge guard, though if he expects it it's bad news for Ike. Pretty much very risky to edge guard Marth but still possible.
But onstage you didn't even mention Bair Akashi, that move is 7 frames which is more than fast enough I think to prevent Marth from winning by spamming Fair unless I play a Marth with insane spacing who can prove me otherwise. I do it and it works at least against the Marths I've played. I often wait for the Marth to pull out the Fair 1st and then I hit him during the cooldown. I'm not sure if it outranges Marth's Fair though. I don't think you can react to Fair or Nair either unless your reaction time is Ally godly. About the Fair it was when MARTH was offstage, not viceversa and it was mostly nothing more than a bait or a surprise attack to say that Marth isn't impossible to edge guard, though if he expects it it's bad news for Ike. Pretty much very risky to edge guard Marth but still possible.
Nike.
Smash Hero
Added Future (wow lol), Raziek, and Kola.
Teh Future
Smash Master
i meant minus in my post obv.
and yeah kirby beats marth imo. once you make a mistake you die at 60 lloolollololololololololo not likes its bad or anything -1 is close to even and shouldn't even really matter unless youre playing someone really close to your skill.
the only time ive ever seen marth play this (not me) was neo and the only thing i remember is the set ending w/ footstool to spike which is roflmao bc chu is ******** for gettin hit with that ever
edit: you guys are rong wario does fine against marth. once you whiff anything he can punish and he is such a dum character he only needs to hit you w/ like 5 moves then **** on you. IF marth wrecked wario then glutony would still be using falco against mr r. Glutony isn't a patient player at all and he can still play the matchup w/ no problems at all.
/truth
*disappears from terrible board*
and yeah kirby beats marth imo. once you make a mistake you die at 60 lloolollololololololololo not likes its bad or anything -1 is close to even and shouldn't even really matter unless youre playing someone really close to your skill.
the only time ive ever seen marth play this (not me) was neo and the only thing i remember is the set ending w/ footstool to spike which is roflmao bc chu is ******** for gettin hit with that ever
edit: you guys are rong wario does fine against marth. once you whiff anything he can punish and he is such a dum character he only needs to hit you w/ like 5 moves then **** on you. IF marth wrecked wario then glutony would still be using falco against mr r. Glutony isn't a patient player at all and he can still play the matchup w/ no problems at all.
/truth
*disappears from terrible board*
This is the second time in two days I've seen someone argue something about Wario's MUs using Gluttony as an example. You can NOT use him as an example. Gluttony is an AMAZING player. He isn't even playing the MU, LOL. He's just outplaying everyone by such a huge amount that it seems like the MU isn't that bad.