The Mario Luigi Discussion

[The Master of Mario]

Here's what Mario has over Luigi:

1. Mario has greater run speed on the ground and better horizontal movement in the air.

Horizontal Aerial Movement
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167952
Ground Movement
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182060&highlight=speed

2. Mario has better range and priority including 4 disjointed hit boxes(F-smash, F.L.U.D.D., Cape, Fireballs)

Note: Mario's D-angled F-tilt beats out Luigi's Nado. Fludd Induced hitlag catches Luigi's F-air, B-air giving Mario another way to hit laggy aerial opponents with an F-smash, Aerial, Up-special or U-smash. Fludd can cause foes to approach incorrectly so Mario can attack them in lag. Cape's disjointed range allows mario to KO opponenrs by causing them to miss the ledge. Both Fludd and cape allow Mario to stop projectiles that can make approach difficult for Luigi. Mario's Fireballs allow mario to stun foes in the air allowing mario to disjointedly F-smash before they can attack.

3. Mario's Tilts and Aerials have significantly less lag frames and his better fall speed helps Auto Cancelling.

Mario’s B-air can be auto cancelled over 10 frames earlier and has more than 10 less lag frames. Mario’s F-tilt is the same way with over 10 less lag frames. Mario’s U-tilt, U-air, D-tilt, D-air and N-air all beat out Luigi’s with either better speed or less lag.

4. Mario's Fireball has a better trajectory for approach and gimping and Up-special has less lag and added invincibility frames.

Up special comes out on Frame 3 and has less lag frames than Luigi’s. Better trajectory on the fireball means its less predictable and easier to combo with.

5. Mario has Cape, Fireballs, Wall Jump, F.L.U.D.D. and his better aerial movement for quick recovery and aerial defense.

Many places I see Luigi has better recovery than Mario, but Mario has wall jump and FLUDD for vertical and horizontal recovery in addition to Cape, Up-special and his greater aerial movement. He can gimp low on stages because of his wall jump. Mario also has Cape edgehoging and Aerial Cape Extension for aerial movement and gimping. Mario's recovery favors greater speed over distance.

Here's what Luigi has over Mario:

1. His B-air, F-smash, Up-special, U-smash, U-air and N-air have better KO power.

Mario has trouble KOing with smashes and other attacks , while Luigi has more options to KO. Mario has B-air,F-air,Cape,Fludd,U-air, and smashes to try to get KOs. Mario's F-smash KOs earlier than Luigi's when the opponent DI's incorrectly. Because Mario's smashes send foes horizontally, getting close to the edge of the stage is critical to Mario getting KOs earlier.

2. Luigi's slower Fall speed, Missle, greater jump height, Tornado and give him greater vertical and horizontal recovery.

Luigi can recover from under Hyrule using his Jump to improve the height of his Tornado. His tornado gives him horizontal movement on the ground and Vertical movement in the air. Luigi's Missile gives him great Horizontal recovery and his jump height trumps Mario's. Luigi's recovery may be laggier but it's still one of the best in the game.

3. Luigi's Smashes either take less frames to come out, and/or do more damage.

Luigi's F-smash comes out on frame 12 while Mario's comes out on Frame 15. Mario's F-smash lags longer taking 6 more frames to finish. Luigi's U-smash can also do 15% damage in spite of its decreased range. Luigi's D-smash also does 1% more damge with 16% compared to Mario's only doing 15%. All of Luigi's smashes finish in equal or less time to Mario's.

4. Luigi's Crawl and decreased traction allows him to slide into attacks on the ground.

Luigi can use his less traction to improve his approach options by sliding into his ground moves. He can use it to buffer his grab range and D-smash range. Luigi's sliding gives him approach options that Mario doesn't have.

5. Luigi's Specials all deal more damage than Mario's.

Luigi's Fireballs deal 1% more damage.
Meteor deals a maximum of 25% damage and a minimum of 5% compared to Cape which does 6% damage when it attacks in the air and 8% damage when it hits from the ground. Lugi's Down special does 12% compared to Mario's FLUDD which does no damage at all. Mario has to use Cape, Dash Attack, F-tilt, and Up-special to try to get damage while Luigi can easily rack up damage to KO earlier.

FRAME DATA
Mario
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=219407&highlight=MArio+frame+data
Luigi
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175652
All Characters
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202204

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7TXq-y9xr4

Let the discussion begin!!

 

[hippiedude92]

what the **** is this? lol.

just main luigi and mario.

/endthread.

 

[Geou]

Just main who you want, geez. -.-

 

[elheber]

Mario and Luigi make a great team. That's all I'll add.

 

[ThatGuy]

Hahaha looks like my video was used.

 

[:mad:]

They're both equal in every way and you should main them both.

trufax.

 

[fromundaman]

lulz @ thread.

Mario and Luigi make a great team, and the Mario vs Luigi matchup is fun as hell. Who cares which one you play, just pick one!

 

[chic]

mario vs luigi is indeed fun. but in my opinion mario>luigi 55-45

 

[Locuan]

As I recall from the previous thread that the OP had bumped (2008 thread) we had arrived to an agreement that in what Luigi or Mario lacks, the other compliments.

In other words, that's why they work so well in teams etc.

/endthread

 

[luke_atyeo]

lol sibling rivalry.
its true though about doubles, I have a friend who plays mario and it just works so well.
wasnt there so some disscussion somewhere they concluded with luigi having the advantage in the matchup between the two?
as well as luigi being higher on the tier list, I think...
and again I dont know how many characters have mario as their hardest matchup, but a few have luigi as their hardest.

that being said maining both of them gives you a lot more matchup freedom and is genrally a good idea.

 

[:mad:]

A few? You mean ONLY Diddy.
And he still has another 2 characters that are arguably harder.

And if you haven't heard, Mario vs. Ness is 100:0 FLUDD.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Mario's playstyle is different than Luigi's. Mario attacks with autocancel aerials into his ground game. Luigi's Ground game sends foes into the air. Luigi is better at vertical KOs while Mario KOs horizontally.

 

[LuigiKing]

Basically Luigi is better at all of the things that matter. Who cares if Mario beats Ness? Luigi ***** Olimar and Diddy. Personally I would rather have a chance against characters that matter rather than characters you won't lose to anyway. Mario pretty much is worse at everything. Not trying to be a jerk, but its true.

 

[Darknid]

Basically Luigi is better at all of the things that matter. Who cares if Mario beats Ness? Luigi ***** Olimar and Diddy. Personally I would rather have a chance against characters that matter rather than characters you won't lose to anyway. Mario pretty much is worse at everything. Not trying to be a jerk, but its true.

lol Luigi doesn't **** either of those characters, he has slight advantages. I'm pretty sure gimping, camping, spacing and speed are important. Mario's air speed is leagues better(Luigi's is the 2nd worst in the game behind D3), his acceleration is better, and his fall speed is also just generally better onstage it allows him to follow up and stay at his desired range. He's a lot faster than Luigi.

As for killing, Luigi's kill moves are all extremely close range and are hard to get off on a lot of opponents(Wario comes to mind..). Mario's F smash is a great kill move, the strong hit(sourspot) kills a mere 20% later than Luigi's F smash judging by my experience(With DI, Mario's can take me out at 120 or so while Luigi's takes me out at 90-100.) He has a horrible OOS game(as in..none), and only one move to close a gap, the ending lag of which can be easily punished. effectively resetting the spacing. This is how I can shut Luigi down with DK's F tilt. Mario also does better than Luigi against DK, Marth, Falco, ROB, D3(I'm pretty sure, but not 100%) and GnW to name some high tiers simply because of his superior spacing and camping, plus some of these characters(DK, Marth, Falco, ROB, GnW) have an easier time gimping Luigi than Mario!

Now, Luigi is better because he has the kill power and the recovery, and in brawl the high tiers are oh so hard to gimp, and oh capable of gimping, but he certainly does not obsolete Mario.

EDIT: If this thread is about the actual matchup, it's 60-40 Mario. Mario and Luigi have some nasty cape **** tricks in teams as well

 

[hippiedude92]

Hm boss's **** on dabuz 3-0'd (?) seem pretty **** to me... considering olimar just doesn't have too much for going for him.. lol... same with atomsk's **** on ADHD's (if I recall to my senses correctly).. and atomsk's just picked up luigi too lol... so dunno what your talking about slight advantage... 65-35 and/or 6/4 take or leave nugguh...

 

[Darknid]

Hm boss's **** on dabuz 3-0'd (?) seem pretty **** to me... considering olimar just doesn't have too much for going for him.. lol... same with atomsk's **** on ADHD's (if I recall to my senses correctly).. and atomsk's just picked up luigi too lol... so dunno what your talking about slight advantage... 65-35 and/or 6/4 take or leave nugguh...

lol you're full of **** dude. it's BOSS. he ***** MKs, that still doesn't mean Luigi has the advantage. if you recall to your senses correctly? how about 60-40 AT BEST and that isn't **** and I'll leave it at that. atomsk is also just generally a great player as long as he knows the character pretty well he's going to be a contender please get your **** straight and get a brawl IQ

 

[zhao_guang]

lol you're full of **** dude. it's BOSS. he ***** MKs, that still doesn't mean Luigi has the advantage. if you recall to your senses correctly? how about 60-40 AT BEST and that isn't **** and I'll leave it at that. atomsk is also just generally a great player as long as he knows the character pretty well he's going to be a contender please get your **** straight and get a brawl IQ

I can safely say you know nothing of the Luigi metagame and you should gtfo of the Luigi boards.

 

[Darknid]

I can safely say you know nothing of the Luigi metagame and you should gtfo of the Luigi boards.

You don't know what I know..besides everything I said about the Luigi/Mario comparison is true. Even you must admit that **** is an incredibly strong word for Luigi's matchup advantage over the likes of Diddy and Olimar.

 

[zhao_guang]

You don't know what I know..besides everything I said about the Luigi/Mario comparison is true. Even you must admit that **** is an incredibly strong word for Luigi's matchup advantage over the likes of Diddy and Olimar.

The skill level between myself and dabuz is so big I can't even begin to tell you. Yet everytime I play him, the match is extremely close, always last stock, +100%. Sometimes I even win. The Olimar vs. Luigi matchup is impossible unless the Olimar is flat out better than the Luigi. Kind of like the Meta Knight vs. Luigi matchup, the Luigi won't win unless he is flat out better than the MK. (Boss is one of the of the best players around no doubt, but until he starts knocking the top MKs out of tournaments consistently, the point still stands. MK vs. Luigi is the most hated matchup on these boards)

Diddy vs. Luigi, I don't know. I think people over-exaggerate that one a lot. Personally, I find Marth to be more of a pain for Diddy then Luigi, but that might be because of my lack of Diddy vs. Luigi knowledge. Plus, I'd rather use Luigi anyways, because Marth is such a boring character to use.

 

[Dabuz]

darknid: saying luigi vs olimar isn't at least 65-35 luigi advantage is ********, theres a reason i have never 2 stocked a luigi even though ive fought countless ones, theres also a reason why he is a worse matchup then peach, marth, and MK for olimar, luigi ***** olimar in every way, and darknid, if you don't realize its atleast 65-35 just stop talking for you know nothing

 

[zhao_guang]

darknid: saying luigi vs olimar isn't at least 65-35 luigi advantage is ********, theres a reason i have never 2 stocked a luigi even though ive fought countless ones, theres also a reason why he is a worse matchup then peach, marth, and MK for olimar, luigi ***** olimar in every way, and darknid, if you don't realize its atleast 65-35 just stop talking for you know nothing

You got my call?

 

[Dabuz]

You got my call?

all i know is my name was said in this thread so i felt an obligation to post

 

[zhao_guang]

all i know is my name was said in this thread so i felt an obligation to post

Yeah sorry, I really should stop using names ._.

 

[BSP]

Is the the discussion suppossed to be about the mario luigi matchup? I'd say around 50:50.

 

[Darknid]

The skill level between myself and dabuz is so big I can't even begin to tell you. Yet everytime I play him, the match is extremely close, always last stock, +100%. Sometimes I even win. The Olimar vs. Luigi matchup is impossible unless the Olimar is flat out better than the Luigi. Kind of like the Meta Knight vs. Luigi matchup, the Luigi won't win unless he is flat out better than the MK. (Boss is one of the of the best players around no doubt, but until he starts knocking the top MKs out of tournaments consistently, the point still stands. MK vs. Luigi is the most hated matchup on these boards)

Diddy vs. Luigi, I don't know. I think people over-exaggerate that one a lot. Personally, I find Marth to be more of a pain for Diddy then Luigi, but that might be because of my lack of Diddy vs. Luigi knowledge. Plus, I'd rather use Luigi anyways, because Marth is such a boring character to use.

alright, I guess I was wrong about Olimar, but it seems like you're making yourself out to be an average/bad/not a good player just to help prove your point when I don't think that's true. I hear your name a lot when people are discussing Luigis.

I too use Luigi. A lot, in fact. I picked him up for help against Wario and Diddy, neither of which turned out to be the big advantages they were hyped to be. It just seems like Luigi's poor mobility really dogs him in the Diddy matchup.

 

[zhao_guang]

alright, I guess I was wrong about Olimar, but it seems like you're making yourself out to be an average/bad/not a good player just to prove your point when I don't think that's true.

I too use Luigi. A lot, in fact. I picked him up for help against Wario and Diddy, neither of which turned out to be the big advantages they were hyped to be. It just seems like Luigi's poor mobility really dogs him in the Diddy matchup.

I'm really not that good. I've been 2-3 stocked by people whom dabuz has beaten easy. The matchup is what brings me to a closer level.

Wario actually does better against Luigi than vice versa. Luigi's air game is better on paper, but with Wario's great mobility, it's pretty easy to bait the aerials then go in for the ****.

Like I said, I prefer Marth for the Diddy matchup, I just find it more comfortable.

 

[ALiAsVee]

Is the the discussion suppossed to be about the mario luigi matchup? I'd say around 50:50.

It's not 50:50. Mario has an advantage, if slight. If I need to elaborate, I'll have to dig up my old posts on the match up =_=. Major reason: Mario gimps Luigi.

I won't argue Luigi - Oli matchups even though I know Luigi is at the advantage, but I will take you to the grave with any Mario - Luigi or DK - Luigi Matchups.

[/crazy outburst after lurking for the past week]

 

[Darknid]

Mario vs Luigi is 60-40 Mario advantage because they have similar tools, but Mario's spacing is clearly superior. Mario can gimp Luigi very effectively. Luigi kills better on every one of his moves even though they generally aren't as useful. Luigi is the one that has to approach because Mario is the better camper. If Mario spaces correctly he shouldn't be taking half as much damage, that's where the matchup just tips in his favor. Mario's killing power is average, not weak, not strong, but his F smash can book Luigi as early as 90%, a lot of people don't know how strong the sourspot is.

Even though Luigi is like..almost high tier and Mario is middle of low, at least Mario still beats Luigi in the matchup. There is justice in this world..

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

I personally think Mario is better than Luigi in Brawl.

Like what Darknid was saying, Mario is faster, and has a lot more range than Luigi, and Mario also does much better on approaching and on defense. Luigi's approach is horrible, and Luigi's defense is complete garbage, I think among the worst in the game, Mario's moves are much faster than Luigi's, and have more range. Also I think that Luigi's Super Jump Punch sucks. Sure it's really powerful, but people tend to over look the fact that if you miss with it, you are absolutely screwed. Mario's may not have the raw power, but I think with Luigi's being so incredibly risky makes Mario's SJP the better one, and Luigi's should really only be used when you know for sure your going to land it.

So what moves and things Mario has that's better than Luigi's are:
F-Smash
D-smash
Fireballs
Side B
Super Jump Punch
F-tilt
More range
better approach
better defensive game
Faster (in the air, on the ground and moves come quicker)
Less ending lag

All that I know that Luigi has over Mario is:
Better recovery
Stronger F-smash
Maybe a slightly better air game (though Mario's is probably equally as good)

So seriously I don't see why people think Luigi's so much better than Mario. To me it seems that Mario's the superior brother in this game.

 

[TreK]

@ thread title -> how can you compare them ? They're opposites really.

@ off topic discution, cus off topic is alway funnier :V -> Luigi beats Oli ? Woah could anyone teach me ? ._. I hardly 1 stock my crewmate's oli with luigi when I 2 stock him with my sucky marth without even going all out :V
Going to put a vid of him vs me on yt soon btw, not that the match is good but I WiGi'd him 8D
But no one cares. I gtfo now *__*

 

[PoisonMist]

Luigi eats mario for breakfast except off the edge.

@ super angry luigi - dont even compare luigi's UpB with Mario's lool..

The only thing that is better about marios fmsash is the range(stutter stepped)...

 

[tsunami70875]

So what moves and things Mario has that's better than Luigi's are:
F-Smash
D-smash
Fireballs
Side B
Super Jump Punch
F-tilt
More range
better approach
better defensive game
Faster (in the air, on the ground and moves come quicker)
Less ending lag

All that I know that Luigi has over Mario is:
Better recovery
Stronger F-smash
Maybe a slightly better air game (though Mario's is probably equally as good)

a couple of things:
why are you comparing mario's SJP to luigi's? mario's is used for nothing except recovery, and it's mediocre at that. luigi shoryuken is his defining moves, and despite its vulnerability, there are ways always being found to combo in to it. it's like jigglypuff's rest, where you as a luigi, you must learn to use it properly. spaming shoryuken is like spamming rest, and no sane person does that

you're leaving alot out of what luigi has better than mario, i.e., tornado, more ability to "combo", how fsmash is faster, has IASA frames, and how DI is ineffective against it, and seriously
how could you forget NAIR?

 

[BSP]

a couple of things:
why are you comparing mario's SJP to luigi's? mario's is used for nothing except recovery, and it's mediocre at that. luigi shoryuken is his defining moves, and despite its vulnerability, there are ways always being found to combo in to it. it's like jigglypuff's rest, where you as a luigi, you must learn to use it properly. spaming shoryuken is like spamming rest, and no sane person does that

you're leaving alot out of what luigi has better than mario, i.e., tornado, more ability to "combo", how fsmash is faster, has IASA frames, and how DI is ineffective against it, and seriously
how could you forget NAIR?

Mario's SJP has invincibility frames, making a great OoS option. The tornado is easily cancelled out(projectile, attack, almost anything)so it's not that great, but it works sometimes. Mario's approach is better anyway. Luigi's ability to combo is probably less than mario's because mario's aireals are faster, he can short hop better, and he has better aireal and ground speed.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

 

[Matador]

This thread is so lol.

If only you know how incredibly stupid it is to argue which character is better...

 

[zhao_guang]

This thread is so lol.

If only you know how incredibly stupid it is to argue which character is better...

It's so obvious that Luigi is better because I main him and know nothing of Mario lululul

 

[BSP]

This thread is so lol.

If only you know how incredibly stupid it is to argue which character is better...

just trying to have some discussion.

 

[hippiedude92]

This thread is so lol.

If only you know how incredibly stupid it is to argue which character is better...

Shall we revive the old thread and show an example of why NOOBS AND LURKERS JUST JUMP INTO THE DISCUSSION LIKE THEY KNOW ****! ESPICALLY WHEN THEIR NOT PART OF THE BOARD WHAT SO EVER??!?! Cuz luigis have more lurkers/newbs/noobs then Marios srsly. lol.

just trying to have some discussion.

in all honestly even though i'm cutting *** on the thread creator and the thread itself, the discussion is highly dumb. Ask anyone from this board and Mario boards from 2008 prolly from dawn of brawl. It just highly invites 30 pages of useless flame wars and what not.

Personally I call for a lock. People that know the aftermath from THAT THREAD BACK MONTHS WAY BACK (30 page+ flame war over sillyiness) would know why it should be locked. Sorry.

 

[zhao_guang]

Bowser beats them both.

</thread>

 

[hippiedude92]

lol you're full of **** dude. it's BOSS. he ***** MKs, that still doesn't mean Luigi has the advantage. if you recall to your senses correctly? how about 60-40 AT BEST and that isn't **** and I'll leave it at that. atomsk is also just generally a great player as long as he knows the character pretty well he's going to be a contender please get your **** straight and get a brawl IQ

Lol just wondering, even though you got the gist and picture of my point, but what is definition of **** to you? o.O? 7/3? 8/2 ratio? Also when I meant that I recall my senses, I meant if Boss 3-0'd Dabuz or not, or maybe was 2-0'd, can't remember but oh well you still get my point lol. And just sayin, didn't say boss or luigi has adv over mk lololol. (though imo it's like 6/4 LMFAO)

and l already know atomsk is a great player (duh). And lol already gotten my Brawl IQ <3.

darknid: saying luigi vs olimar isn't at least 65-35 luigi advantage is ********, theres a reason i have never 2 stocked a luigi even though ive fought countless ones, theres also a reason why he is a worse matchup then peach, marth, and MK for olimar, luigi ***** olimar in every way, and darknid, if you don't realize its atleast 65-35 just stop talking for you know nothing

I'm sorreh I had to use you as an example for luigi ***** olimar thing ._. Closest thing I can find for a top level player =/ Your still a great olimar player though.

wall of lol non-sense.

just wondering, do you always stalk/lurk/rage at odd times at odd threads? lol.

 

[LuigiKing]

Luigi ***** Olimar, trust me plz. Ask Weruop T.T

And super angry luigi you suck at this game lol.