The Lucas Boards' QnA Thread

[Kofu]

Bowser has a 20 frame advantage when he ground releases you. So I doubt it has to be fame perfect.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Should I hard-core troll the AiB Lucas boards?

 

[ZMan]

Should I hard-core troll the AiB Lucas boards?

 

[orange/xd]

do it


bump

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I think I trolled it correctly this time

 

[Tokaio]

huh, concise list. as far as MK goes, I find that any grab that initiates the grab release works, but maybe i'm wrong.

Main reason for asking is that as far as stages go, my favorites for lucas are

Norfair
castle siege
brinstar
delfino

norfair is mostly banned up here in NY, and castle siege and delfino are also pretty good, but the whole 'get grab released or chain grabbed across the stage to my death' is always present, so whenever I hit a situation like phase 2 of siege, i usually just hang out up on the statues or on top of the elevated side things to avoid getting killed by a grab.

That's interesting. I've never seen a Lucas like Castle Siege before. I don't think it's a good stage for Lucas. The 1st phase is fine, but the 2nd has walkoffs (Grab release ===> DEATH), and 3rd has tilting, which can mess up recovery and autocancelling. It's not as bad as Yoshi's Island, but it's pretty bad lol.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I need help trolling. . . I suck T.T

 

[Chuee]

PSI you will never reach my level. I'm on a whole level of my own.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Teach me your ways Chuee. . .

 

[Chuee]

Make em mad.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Somebody fell for the trollbait. :D

and the AiB mods suck.

 

[orange/xd]

Silly General Purin got the **** trolled out of him. I want to be a mod on AiB. D:

 

[ZMan]

bumping so more people read this *****

 

[Rachmaninav89]

selfless bump

 

[HelpR]

That's interesting. I've never seen a Lucas like Castle Siege before. I don't think it's a good stage for Lucas. The 1st phase is fine, but the 2nd has walkoffs (Grab release ===> DEATH), and 3rd has tilting, which can mess up recovery and autocancelling. It's not as bad as Yoshi's Island, but it's pretty bad lol.

yeah, it's really odd now that I think on it.

I dont particularly like the 1st part, it's not bad but it has never hindered me really.

the 2nd part I like because of the platforms, I can generally abuse dsmash there whenever someone approaches, and then camp until the stage changes

the 3rd part is like a slow lylat. There's only been one tme that the stage has ever gimped me there, and if you keep an eye on the way the stage tilts, autocanceling things like nair and dair isnt the least bit difficult, though PKT2 presents some challenge, it's doable. I just generally aim for the autocancel, if the stage chooses to tilt upwards, i'll almost always grab the ledge instead.

I dont know why I like, but I do. It's usually my fallback stage after halberd and brinstar, and I generally prefer to use it against characters like snake.

 

[abhishekh]

This is probably a stupid question, but in terms of other aerials that characters use for spacing (like kirby's bair or something) how does fair rank?

Should I be using it a lot?

I've seen videos of some of the better Lucases and they don't seem to use it that much.

is there a reason why?

It's probably obvious, but oh well.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Levitas]

This is probably a stupid question, but in terms of other aerials that characters use for spacing (like kirby's bair or something) how does fair rank?

Should I be using it a lot?

I've seen videos of some of the better Lucases and they don't seem to use it that much.

is there a reason why?

It's probably obvious, but oh well.

Thanks in advance.

I use fair quite a bit at times. It's good against some characters more than others (it's good against sheik for example).

As far as a spacing move, it has more range if you're retreating than if you aren't, so if you can bait someone into chasing you when you jump back, it has a lot of range. That said, it still has a bit of range as you advance, so w/e

 

[prOAPC]

we don't abuse fair because is easy to shield grab

 

[rPSIvysaur]

we don't abuse fair because is easy to shield grab

Unless you're awesome like me and know everything about how to retreat your f-air properly to avoid getting grabbed and using f-air to a BS combo to punish s***. :D

Anyway, @Levitas, no move has more range depending on whether or not they retreat it, it's just during the cool-down of the move, an oppoent has to use a move with more range and disjoint to be able to punish it, which makes shieldgrabbing it unlikely.

 

[Levitas]

rPSI, you would be the one to know. Have you recorded a fair moving forward and back?

I'm under the impression that fair's hitbox lasts more than one frame, and the attack itself is placed on the first frame and remains where it's placed, which is why Dair and Fair hexagons are close to lucas as he moves into them and far from him as he moves away.

 

[abhishekh]

Thanks for your help.

 

[Chuee]

Space Fair on shield or you suck.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

rPSI, you would be the one to know. Have you recorded a fair moving forward and back?

I'm under the impression that fair's hitbox lasts more than one frame, and the attack itself is placed on the first frame and remains where it's placed, which is why Dair and Fair hexagons are close to lucas as he moves into them and far from him as he moves away.

This is absolutely incorrect actually. The hitbox stays right infront of Lucas in the same place the whole time. It's just the graphic that stays there in front of Lucas.

 

[Levitas]

Ah, well thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tokaio]

Is tap jump necessary for any techniques that Lucas has?
I have tap jump on right now, but I want it off now so I can move my shield up. So, would anything change if I were to switch it off?

 

[HelpR]

it's supposedly easier to meteor cancel using tap jump then it is without, however, if you zap jump that is really irrelevant.

Lucas has never had any real need for tap jump, I use it because I have never felt the need for tap jump off, but lucas by no means needs to have it on.

 

[HailCrest]

you can meteor cancel using the jump button once the hitstun is half worn off, but if you press too early it will ignore any more jump buttons until the hitstun is completely worn off. it doesn't apply to tap jumps and upB's so there

i turned tap jump off because i don't have the motor controls to play tap jump without doing rising DJ Uairs when i wanted to short hop a uair, and FH uairs because i wanted to uptilt

 

[MTGod]

My question is what would be the most effective attack to use straight after a Nair without knockback (auto-cancelled???)??? I was fiddling around in training mode and found that the easiest to actually achieve was the Nair to Jab combo, but Nair to Ftilt is just as quick and has awesome knockback... Also, I assume if you time a Nair to Dtilt right you could get a trip in to finish with a Fsmash (like Dair to Dtilt to Fsmash), not that I could actually time it right :S... Also, would Nair to Utilt be viable if the opponent DI'd up out of the Nair, or would they be able to get an attack in before you made the Utilt???

And is it even worth sussing out Nair combos given people can DI out of it, or get hit by the knockback part of the move??? I've just gotten into the habit of Nair in our little Perth scene of lacking foresight ability (not many people here hold the shield up for long enough :D)

Thanks, and my apologies if these questions were sussed out already :D

 

[rPSIvysaur]

When you N-air your opponet they DI, this is where you use your reaction time and follow their DI with. When they DI, it's usually best to not follow their DI with your n-air, instead just n-air in place and see where they get out at to use a follow-up on them.
A) U-tilt (if they DI above you)
B) F-tilt (if they DI in front or behind)
C) Jab (if they DI in front)

I wouldln't recommend using d-tilt out of n-air, n-air doesn't have much range to be able to combo into tipper d-tilt, and if you don't tipper d-tilt, your opponet can get a free hit at lower pecents due to Lucas' d-tilt being horrible on hit.

However, your hitting with n-air in the last hits if that's the case about your opponets not holding up their shield long enough. This usually means their going to have knockback and send the farther away meaning no combos for you .

 

[MTGod]

However, your hitting with n-air in the last hits if that's the case about your opponets not holding up their shield long enough. This usually means their going to have knockback and send the farther away meaning no combos for you

Yeah, it depends on who I'm versing really... Not to sound offensive, but most of the WA unranked tend to spotdodge my Nairs (if they do anything at all) as they don't have enough practice against me to get used to it, but the WARanked players tend too let their shield down to early most times, so combos on them are rare unless I can mindgame them into a full Nair hit... There's only a couple of players that Nair becomes near impossible to use effectively on because they play me so ****ed often they can predict my moves (and they play Metaknight grrrr....)

But thanks for the advice - when I go to the next smashfest I'll try out some of the Utilt and Ftilt addons more ^^ Hopefully I'll finally get some vids to help me see how I do with it

 

[Tokaio]

Usually my opponents DI up. I like Nair --> U-tilt --> Pivot grab for the mindgames

 

[HailCrest]

nair > utilt > freeze lolololololol

at early percents i do a ff nair > utilt or ac nair > ftilt > start spamming pk fire, at around 100% i start going for nair > fsmash or ff nair > dair > lock

 

[rPSIvysaur]

O.O

N-air>Jab>D-tilt>Trip>F-smash

 

[6Mizu]

O.O

N-air>Jab>D-tilt>Trip>F-smash

Nice!

BTW, <3 your Avi.

 

[orange/xd]

rocket's avi is cool

sorry 6mizu i dun like

 

[MTGod]

Back again after an oddly successful tournament (well, for me anyway )... The Nair advice really helped - ended up messing with a lot of people's minds and had some very close games with top players of our scene I do have another question, though: I've noticed that a few of times my PKT2 bounces off the ledge (it's definitely hitting the ledge, many people around me were also WTFing ) rather than grabbing it... Is this a property of the move in a specific time window that it won't grab ledges, or is it a "sweet spot" so to speak on the ledges??? So far it's happened on BF, FD and SV (though the SV instance was a one time only, and I think I may have hit just below the ledge, so I don't count it)...

I don't use PKT2 to recover for the most part, but it's definitely not a once-off occurrence for me

Oh, and I discovered that Lucas v Ness is the most fun you can have in the game

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lucas' PKT2 doesn't really have many special properties about ledge-grabbing. Make sure you aim correctly and are not holding down on the analog stick. Aiming is probably one of the most important parts to do with it.

 

[Chuee]

Ness v Lucas is so fun :D

 

[KassandraNova]

Ness v Lucas is so fun :D

YES! Earthbound battles are the best! ^_^
It's fun to mind game the opponent into healing you. @_@

 

[ChrisTheCom]

I've noticed that a few of times my PKT2 bounces off the ledge (it's definitely hitting the ledge, many people around me were also WTFing ) rather than grabbing it... Is this a property of the move in a specific time window that it won't grab ledges, or is it a "sweet spot" so to speak on the ledges??? So far it's happened on BF, FD and SV (though the SV instance was a one time only, and I think I may have hit just below the ledge, so I don't count it)...

I don't use PKT2 to recover for the most part, but it's definitely not a once-off occurrence for me

Oddly enough I was looking into this in training mode on Battlefield to get a better idea of how bouncing off the ledge works. While I was just mucking around I PKT2'd down towards the right-hand side of Battlefield, only to hit the ledge, bounce up, and continue upwards and left to the right-sided platform.

After trying to replicate this, I think that the ledge has a very small 'reflecting' spot, where it pretty much bounces the PKT2 like a mirror. From a horizontal position it causes you to bounce back horizontally, and from underneath I think it reflects back in the original direction.

So basically this reflector spot is slightly above the area from which you can auto ledge-grab, making for the occassional messed up recovery, although I've only been able to get a reflection on the right-hand side of the stage. I seem to recall in Tyr's guide that wall-hugging can only be done on the left-hand side of the stage, so this may be related to that.

On a side-note, I've been trying to perfect reflecting PKT2 from above to land on the right platform with a lag-reduced landing, to take opponents by surprise. The problem is the spacing and control of PKT1 is very precise, and if you aim too high you thunderslide, and too low is an auto ledge-grab. Still, it gives Lucas options and some mindgame tricks, since using PKT2 as a recovery close to the stage is inferior to tether recovery, and hence the opponent will push to punish.

Hope this all made sense