The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[rPSIvysaur]

All right, so we all know about the GR shenanigans. How does this MU go past that?

 

[Chuee]

I can't believe someone even mentioned punishing PKF. It isn't happening

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think it's somewhat worth mentioning that DK cannot shieldgrab between hits of Lucas's Jab combo.

 

[HelpR]

approaching DK for above is a fools game. dont do it. you'll either get uaired or utilted, maybe even usmashed if you mess up that badly.

space with pk fire. weave in and out.

Unfortunately, this is one of those matchups where, considering DK's infinite, how easy it is for him to get a grab, that it's really moot to bother discussing most aspects, because even if the DK does feel like fighting without the infinite, if we were to gain anything resembling a lead he could pull this out and easily destroy lucas. It's like sheik vs fox all over again, or DK vs dedede. it's just that bad.

screw sakurai. seriously

 

[Chuee]

Just hope that the DK is nice and lets you out of the grab early.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

This MU :l

Just go Wario/DDD/Tornado MK

 

[DMG]

Wario or Dedede is the easiest. Tornado is one thing, but grabbing with those two characters absolutely guarantees terrible things happen.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Ya. Lucas can't get inside so **** this MU.

DMG <- Lookin like a fool w/ his Pants on the ground.

 

[Chuee]

All you can do is rely on the D3's.

 

[orange/xd]

this MU is soo gay

he outranges us in every way imaginable + infinited

 

[HailCrest]

spam pkf like there's no tomorrow

because in this mu, there really is no tomorrow

or go d3 and infinite dk, see how he likes that

 

[orange/xd]

lol that's some karma

 

[prOAPC]

DK's grab is a little slow (8 frames), and its range is not as good as it should be

 

[HelpR]

okay well. the way I see it we still need to discuss this matchup, so i'll give it a fair shake.

Approaching DK: This.. is difficult. imagine marth, he shuts down most of our approaches using a combination of dsmash, dair, and uair. DK can absolutely wreck you if you do not autocancel every single one of your moves perfectly, and even if you do cancel them perfectly, a grab can put you in a bad place quick, so, dont autocancel ANY move in front of DK, if the DK is shielding it will end badly. Use PKF alot. DK can swat away projectiles with ftilt, but PKF can still be useful if you use it the right way.

Oh. And dont grab. seriously. grabbing a DK is difficult, ape can outspace us in most regards and the ropesnake does little to help here.

Damaging DK: Most moves here are risky to use, other then the usual, some stuff to keep in mind is that:

A. DK has very little cover from below himself
B. DK is difficult to approach from any other place

Luckily, due to his weight and difficulty attacking opponents below him in the air, you can chain uairs on DK until a relatively low percentage. nair is also a good move. the longer you keep DK in the air, the better off you are, but keep in mind that bair and uair are both incredible aerials, and fair can easily knock you down a peg.

fighting DK has always been a spacing game. and unfortunately, DK completely destroys lucas in this regard, so even discounting the really bad things about the matchup, it still isn't very pretty for lucas.

If you get grabbed at above 100%, kiss your stock goodbye. cargo release to Dsmash time.

As far as stages are concerned, ban jungle japes. seriously, DK is almost as difficult to beat there as falco is, and will survive until ludicrous percentages due to the horizontal nature of his up B. as far as stage to CP DK on... I really dont know. Almost every stage where lucas is good DK is at a distinct advantage on.

I guess either frigate or delfino. RC if you're comfortable there, which I doubt.

65:35 without the infinite, unwinnable matchup with it

 

[prOAPC]

why exactly does this cargo release stuff work?

 

[Chuee]

Wat.
Why are we approaching DK in the first place?
Without the infinite it's about 60-40.

 

[ChocoNaner]

Can't you just combo the hell out of DK? That's what the earthbounders are built for--besides getting gimped. :I

Needs PF knowledge.

 

[prOAPC]

choconaner? that sounds delicious

 

[Chuee]

Choco, Lucas doesn't get gimped. Get your facts straight monkey scrub.

 

[ChocoNaner]

Chuee got gimped by a fireball, don't listen to him.

And yes, ChocoNaner is a tastee name. :3

 

[HelpR]

chuee: not really that hard to perfect shield PKF. sure it's unpunishable, but i've never seen why people hype it up so much. one of DK's biggest strength is his ability to wall of pain, so once you run out of room to run away, you're screwed. PK fire will not carry lucas in this match. the amount of damage required to kill DK is ludicrous. I hope you can plank if that's your only tactic.

choconanner: how long does a lucas combo last? typically, it's what, 5 hits tops? The initiating hit being nair or dair, then jab/ftilt/utilt/dtilt/uair, then it usually ends.

Lucas doesnt really combo that well, he does have good air combos, but with proper DI on the part of the opponent, the amount of damage taken from these hits can be minimized. air juggling is hardly lucas' strength.

 

[Chuee]

Shielding pkf doesn't mean you don't have to approach.
Uair combos into itself at low %, and racks up a good amount of damage on heavies.

 

[HelpR]

never said lucas has to approach, but the DK will, and eventually, you'll be forced to confront him, or get through him to try and keep a distance using PKF

as far as stringing combos is concerned, what's the minimum lucas can kill DK? about 110 if the lucas refuses to decay fsmash and lands it properly?

well, lucas can likely combo uairs until about 40, then after that you have to camp with PKF.

You do have a point, but I dunno, I've never liked this matchup. it seems that if the DK catches you you'll be having a really touch time as you're likely to get a large amount of damage out of any altercation close quarters.

 

[HailCrest]

when i was 10 years old i used chocobananas as a euphemism for poo...

bottom line: lucas is dead meat.

you could save yourself some time and throw the match to save your lucasy surprise tricks for later, and CP d3

 

[Levitas]

you could save yourself some time and throw the match to save your lucasy surprise tricks for later, and CP d3

Hardly ever a good idea to throw a game from a strategic standpoint.

The only time I'd ever consider it is if I knew I would lose game 1, I were relying on a gimmick that would not retain its effectiveness, I had an autowin on game 2, and game 3 I somehow had a better chance of winning using the gimmick I hid by throwing game 1.

With the counterpick system this really shouldn't ever happen, either.

 

[Tyr_03]

I don't think this matchup is that bad. I 3 stocked Ook on Battlefield and he's like one of the top DK players in the country or something. Although I'd really like to play Cable sometime because his DK looks really ****. If the DK actually knows the matchup they can probably win pretty easily I suppose. DK's got lots of range. But we can gimp him with Dair if they're not careful. And yeah we can combo him really easily. idk just don't get grabbed or something. Marth and IC's are way better at getting grabs than DK so it shouldn't be THAT bad. Mostly just beat him on the vertical.

 

[MJG]

Don't go to frigate vs DK please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIFdNjeISvc#t=0m25s

D:

 

[HelpR]

lol, we have a ftilt till a decent percentage off walls, though it sucks that you got caught by the dtilt wall infinite there

so yeah, if we count walls, we're completely screwed on DK, delfino is the only bastion left. fun

 

[rPSIvysaur]

That was DK's D-Cargo Throw into D-tilt wall lock. It's nothing special, infact if Lucas gets grabbed, he really shouldn't be worrying about getting wall locked >.>

 

[HelpR]

So.... what do you guys think of this matchup? gonna say 60:40 DK's favor minimum, 70:30 at the worst

90:10 with the infinite.

strike: lylat, yoshi
CP: halberd, frigate, delfino?
ban: no idea.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Definitely strike Yoshi's. Battlefield is also a good DK stage IIRC. I'm unsure about Japes, it's a really good DK stage. But it seems like we could probably camp him well there. However, Brinstar is a good DK stage, but the lava can disrupt the infinite. I can see Norfair as the best stage to take him to.

 

[HelpR]

my main reasoning for \striking lylat is due to the fact that due to DK's height, he can dsmash you through the platforms and I never liked that opening.

However, lylat does teeter back and forth, so it could gimp DK. if you get lucky.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

lol @ 90-10

it's no worse than snake.

at least dk has to approach.

Snake just stands there with his headband blowing in the non-wind throwing toy grenades to lure you in, waiting to go pedobear on your ***.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Lylat tilting helps DK 1000x more than it does Lucas, Helpr. He gets super armor on his up-b throughout the entire animation if he gets on the stage during a certain part of his up-b, that's something you don't want to deal with.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

DK on yoshi's/picto -___-

dude get's invincible up B from the ledge.

 

[Chuee]

This MU is not 90-10, lol.
It's 65-35 or 70-30.
Go to brinstar because Brinstar is the ****.

 

[Tokaio]

I dunno about Brinstar....he kills so freakin' early on that stage >_<

 

[Chuee]

Ban Japes
CP Brinstar
I can't think of anywhere else to take him.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Brinstar is a terrible CP. go to FD

 

[Chuee]

._.
I don't like FD. FD = grab