MJG
Smash Hero
^Yes. While this MU is not complete **** (lol lobos), certain aspects of this MU are just ******** and dumb for lucas. A TL main, as stated by cope earlier, should not be getting hit with PKT1 off stage anyways >_>
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The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic
- Thread starter #HBC | J
- Start date
Levitas
the moon
How does boomerang interact with PKT1's tail?
I don't have anyone to test it with atm, but that seems like a legit choice to negate your cover
I don't have anyone to test it with atm, but that seems like a legit choice to negate your cover
HelpR
Smash Ace
PKT1 is a user's tool. the effectiveness of the attack honestly depends mostly on just how skilled the lucas is with using the attack. The only characters that can shut it down 100% of the time is G&W, ness, and Lucas. Past that, if the lucas has enough foresight he can avoid enemy attack and punish it immediately afterwards.
levitas: Pretty sure PKT1's tail completely ignores the boomerang and vice versa. i've never seen the two interact in any way
copacetic: so TL can throw his boomerang upwards? curious.
mjg: this is a matchup thread bro, please make points to verify your stance on the matchup instead of saying 'yeah, TL beats lucas.' Let's just assume for a bit that lucas is equal with TL in tier position, and that we need to discuss how the two interact with one another.
Let's stop talking about gimping ****it >> do we really need to argue over the fine points of PKT?
A. if something hits the head of PKT, it clangs
B. if something hits the side of the head of PKT, it has a chance not to clang
C. if something hits the tail, it passes clear through
Games of 'what if' dont help us here.
levitas: Pretty sure PKT1's tail completely ignores the boomerang and vice versa. i've never seen the two interact in any way
copacetic: so TL can throw his boomerang upwards? curious.
mjg: this is a matchup thread bro, please make points to verify your stance on the matchup instead of saying 'yeah, TL beats lucas.' Let's just assume for a bit that lucas is equal with TL in tier position, and that we need to discuss how the two interact with one another.
Let's stop talking about gimping ****it >> do we really need to argue over the fine points of PKT?
A. if something hits the head of PKT, it clangs
B. if something hits the side of the head of PKT, it has a chance not to clang
C. if something hits the tail, it passes clear through
Games of 'what if' dont help us here.
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
I won't argue the PKT1 thing any more, it's more for the TL mains' sake anyway. Just know that we can cover pretty much every angle, and the only ones we can't (directly below, directly above when we are too far below the stage to safely uair), well, those angles will leave the lucas wide open to attack from a quick arrow/bomb/boomerang. It's pretty safe for you to try it, and if the TL is unfamiliar with the matchup he'll get hit.
Lucas has some trouble getting past TL's bair, so the trick will be to get in close and maybe nair out of shield to start TL on the defensive. You can powershield then grab our zair in most cases, and ftilt does pretty well against TL.
The stick is very good against boomerang, bc since TL doesn't catch it, he can't use it for a few seconds. I think you can nair through bombs.
Lucas has some trouble getting past TL's bair, so the trick will be to get in close and maybe nair out of shield to start TL on the defensive. You can powershield then grab our zair in most cases, and ftilt does pretty well against TL.
The stick is very good against boomerang, bc since TL doesn't catch it, he can't use it for a few seconds. I think you can nair through bombs.
Lobos
Smash Master
HelpR
Smash Ace
smart play on the last match, however, it was honestly a horrible choice as if okin had known how to abuse the stage at ALL, it would have been heavily in his favor.
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
You're too kind.
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
And it's about 14 months old
Lobos
Smash Master
AHahahaha I know but still, it was funny!
MJG
Smash Hero
I listed stages earlier and there was really no point to touch on much on this match up since copacetic cover mostly everything -.-
EDIT: HEY P_F ^_^
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
Omggg it's Ensis :3
prOAPC
Smash Lord
Omggg it's Ensis :3
ZMan
Smash Master
Omggg it's Ensis :3
~Pink Fresh~
Smash Master
PF <- Trend setting for lucas mains across the world.
Levitas
the moon
>>>>:U
^^my face when senseless spam happens here ^^^
^^my face when senseless spam happens here ^^^
MJG
Smash Hero
^I bring so much joy to this thread ^_^
An additional stage to that will benefit lucas is Brinstar
Im not sure if that was said but its pretty good as long as you take advantage of the stage and that you aren't dumb when hanging out on the ledge (toonlink will spike lucas through the stage as stated earlier)
Toonlink will die around 100-120 (With DI) from lucas' F smash and it IS possible to use lucas' up smash OoS to punish a toonlink that is miss-spacing back airs (I tested this with a crew mate). Its only a possibility and something I wouldn't focus on in this match (obviously).
If you have problems getting inside, I would suggest maybe walking towards toonlink while powershielding and learning how to instant throw bombs back at toonlink (Even I am a little shocked when my opponent can do that XD)
<3 you all
An additional stage to that will benefit lucas is Brinstar
Im not sure if that was said but its pretty good as long as you take advantage of the stage and that you aren't dumb when hanging out on the ledge (toonlink will spike lucas through the stage as stated earlier)
Toonlink will die around 100-120 (With DI) from lucas' F smash and it IS possible to use lucas' up smash OoS to punish a toonlink that is miss-spacing back airs (I tested this with a crew mate). Its only a possibility and something I wouldn't focus on in this match (obviously).
If you have problems getting inside, I would suggest maybe walking towards toonlink while powershielding and learning how to instant throw bombs back at toonlink (Even I am a little shocked when my opponent can do that XD)
<3 you all
Levitas
the moon
nice idea, I like it 
I've always felt that T. link and Lucas are somewhat similar in how the game we play tends to be along the lines of "wreck the opponent for being unable to approach well", which is IMO the most fun way to play brawl.
Lucas gets an opportunity after spotdodged grabs for a usmash as well, but in the same note, T. Link gets whatever he wants off of our missed grabs also
I've always felt that T. link and Lucas are somewhat similar in how the game we play tends to be along the lines of "wreck the opponent for being unable to approach well", which is IMO the most fun way to play brawl.
Lucas gets an opportunity after spotdodged grabs for a usmash as well, but in the same note, T. Link gets whatever he wants off of our missed grabs also
ZMan
Smash Master
i always thought toon link and lucas were similar cause they have blonde hair and are around the same height.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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I didn't think Zman made such useless posts
I've never really thought of TL and Lucas the same though, because TL is a super camper, where as Lucas is a camp without projectiles and punish their approaches.
I've never really thought of TL and Lucas the same though, because TL is a super camper, where as Lucas is a camp without projectiles and punish their approaches.
ZMan
Smash Master
all my posts have meaning. you have been just been too blind to see the true meaning behind my posts, mike.
but really against toon link i just run around and flick the cstick a lot and hustle demonic toon link out of $20. it works better than it should
but really against toon link i just run around and flick the cstick a lot and hustle demonic toon link out of $20. it works better than it should
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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alright guys, I've finished with the ZSS part, so I guess Tink Stage discussion?
HelpR
Smash Ace
brinstar is a good CP.
toonlink doesnt have any bad stages persay, he plays fairly well on each stage. lylat poses problems for him due to his limited horizontal movement after his up b is used, but other then tat nothing comes to mind.
As far as stages to ban, I generally ban pirate ship if by some miracle it is available. After that, it's really a matter of removing the stages that are bad for lucas ala RC or YI.
some people argue for banning delfino, but while TL can try and spike you while you're in the water, he doesnt have any other distinct advantages there, and it's a matter of just not getting in the water.
your mileage may vary.
toonlink doesnt have any bad stages persay, he plays fairly well on each stage. lylat poses problems for him due to his limited horizontal movement after his up b is used, but other then tat nothing comes to mind.
As far as stages to ban, I generally ban pirate ship if by some miracle it is available. After that, it's really a matter of removing the stages that are bad for lucas ala RC or YI.
some people argue for banning delfino, but while TL can try and spike you while you're in the water, he doesnt have any other distinct advantages there, and it's a matter of just not getting in the water.
your mileage may vary.
MJG
Smash Hero
Go to norfair before brinstar. Norfair is banned here in the midwest (at least in my area), so I guess brinstar. Its not too bad for toonlink to be honest. Our up smash cancels from the part of the stage that is holding the left and right part of the stage together. Um...Halberd would be a good stage vs toonlink. Probably castle siege will be up there with brinstar. The first transition isn't too bad. It just about our stage control for the most part. The 2nd part of the stage will result in a stalemate. Toonlink doesnt have to approach as long as he is near the top of this transition. This will give lucas' down smash and up smash extra frames along the pillar, so use it to your advantage I guess? The pillars stop all projectiles in this MU (including lucas'). 3rd Transition is like FD and lylat combined together (Minus the platforms).
HelpR
Smash Ace
thanks mjg. now to pick it apart point by point
norfair: banned in most places. shame. I love the place. :<
halberd: I do like halberd, but i'm skittish about taking TL here, as his most reliable kill move, utilt, is even more lethal here then most other stages. dieing 10-20 percent earlier just isnt fun, also, he can uair through the stage and that'll kill you pretty early too.
castle siege: nothing of particular note about this stage, lucas can abuse dsmash here on the 2nd part, but past that it seems to not give a distinct advantage to either.
norfair: banned in most places. shame. I love the place. :<
halberd: I do like halberd, but i'm skittish about taking TL here, as his most reliable kill move, utilt, is even more lethal here then most other stages. dieing 10-20 percent earlier just isnt fun, also, he can uair through the stage and that'll kill you pretty early too.
castle siege: nothing of particular note about this stage, lucas can abuse dsmash here on the 2nd part, but past that it seems to not give a distinct advantage to either.
HelpR
Smash Ace
Apologies for the double post, but we've spent what, almost 3 weeks on TL, at least a week without anything of value having come up, perhaps it's time we move on to another character?
Sorry if i'm rushing this a bit, but it seems if no one has anything left to contribute, it seems moot to stay at TL if we're making no forward progress. If anyone does have anything i'd love to hear it.
Sorry if i'm rushing this a bit, but it seems if no one has anything left to contribute, it seems moot to stay at TL if we're making no forward progress. If anyone does have anything i'd love to hear it.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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Alright, I'll try to get the Tink summary started. It's just that I started a new semester ._. Things should go faster after I'm settled in.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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DK Discussion starts now
and of course Tokaio happens to be on. I swear to god. . .
and of course Tokaio happens to be on. I swear to god. . .
Tokaio
Smash Journeyman
lol. I just leave my Smashboards on...I'm not on all the time ._.
Anyways...this is one of our worst match-ups. DK can outrange us, and outpowers us. Plus, his heavy weight makes killing him a lot harder. The only thing we have on him is gimping. His recovery is extremely predictable, so either spike him, or PKT2 gimp. I prefer spiking.
35:65 imo.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
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He aslo has an infinte >.>
prOAPC
Smash Lord
our nair ***** him, is the easiest character to dair+footstool+dair (0-60% in one combo) and you can gimp him with dair at 11% (watch Irsic videos)
his ftilt stop our pk fire, that's what i hate from this MU :S
his ftilt stop our pk fire, that's what i hate from this MU :S
Toon Link:
Lucas can't really run from TL per se, but he has annoying tools to make TL have to work really hard to get you if you have the lead.
I'm pretty sure someone mentioned this, but PKT when TL is offstage *****. Maneuvering it correctly makes it near impossible for him to avoid it. The same applies onstage however as well. If the TL likes to DJ and pull out a bomb, PKT is near impossible to punish or avoid for him. The same goes for most of his projectiles actually if you are spaced correctly and read it.
As for DK, ew lol. Me no likey DK. Which is why I play as Wario
Lucas can't really run from TL per se, but he has annoying tools to make TL have to work really hard to get you if you have the lead.
I'm pretty sure someone mentioned this, but PKT when TL is offstage *****. Maneuvering it correctly makes it near impossible for him to avoid it. The same applies onstage however as well. If the TL likes to DJ and pull out a bomb, PKT is near impossible to punish or avoid for him. The same goes for most of his projectiles actually if you are spaced correctly and read it.
As for DK, ew lol. Me no likey DK. Which is why I play as Wario
Donkey Bong
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
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DK's infinite on Lucas is really easy to do. guaranteed 6% damage on each grab, and as Lucas' percents climb, >10% each grab because of pummeling. also, cargo hold release damage doesnt diminish, so it's going to be consistent damage.
i've played some friendlies with Phoenix Alpha, just to show him how gay the infi is... ask him lol. he's way better than me but the MU is so gay i still won some.
edit: honestly i dont think PKF is that good a keep away. with how easy it is to power shield, its simple to get a perfect shield and punish the cool down.
i've played some friendlies with Phoenix Alpha, just to show him how gay the infi is... ask him lol. he's way better than me but the MU is so gay i still won some.
edit: honestly i dont think PKF is that good a keep away. with how easy it is to power shield, its simple to get a perfect shield and punish the cool down.
Levitas
the moon
PKF doesn't need to be good. It just needs to be a "threat" that would get you to come to us so that we don't have to go to you. To clarify, the goal isn't to keep you away, it's to get you to come in close where we can actually do stuff.
That said, DK's cargo infinite is silly. DK beats lucas if the DK has a pulse ;-_-
That said, DK's cargo infinite is silly. DK beats lucas if the DK has a pulse ;-_-
HelpR
Smash Ace
DK sucks.
Even without the infinite the matchup sucks alot. DK also has the cargo release to dsmash, which absolutely wrecks lucas past 100. Just pick someone else.
Marth or metaknight for this matchup. really anyone decent against him.
so that's what, 3 matchups that are made that much worse because of GR? friggin awesome. and that's not even counting the regrab shenanigans.
Even without the infinite the matchup sucks alot. DK also has the cargo release to dsmash, which absolutely wrecks lucas past 100. Just pick someone else.
Marth or metaknight for this matchup. really anyone decent against him.
so that's what, 3 matchups that are made that much worse because of GR? friggin awesome. and that's not even counting the regrab shenanigans.