The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[Cosmic77]

I had a feeling Zacian would be a force to be reckoned with even before the game launched. Don't really care what happens in the long run, but if it does end up getting banned, I'll just consider that a badge of honor for it. It's a really powerful Pokémon when used correctly.

Anywho, regarding Smash speculation and what's "hype", people will always be willing to overlook more to get the outcomes they want. In the case of Pokémon, people are sort of tiptoeing around the anniversary because they don't want to convince themselves and others that it has a chance. At the same time, they want a reason for their own characters to seem more likely, so they pass off the anniversaries of those characters' games as a legitimate reason for why they could get in. In a couple of months, we'll also be seeing more people claim that whatever new Pokémon game they make a remake of will be the game Nintendo will want to promote instead of SwSh, even though that remake will likely already have a decent amount of content in Smash. Remakes in general also seem to hardly get any content. Regardless, that'll be their opportunity to tell themselves that even if we do happen to get a Pokémon, they can at least relax knowing it's not from SwSh. That wouldn't be the outcome they'd prefer.

Now I don't know if we'll end up getting Zacian or any other SwSh Pokémon in the long run, but I do think people are brushing it aside too quickly.

 

[zacian]

Oh yeah speaking of Zacian I got Gloria’s EX in Masters yesterday, she got Zacian colors now

 

[Pokelego999]

is Zacian like really overpowered or something?
I don’t follow competitive

Yes. very. It has a mammoth attack stat, great typing and speed, incredible defenses, not too bad movepool, as well as the free boost from Intrepid Sword makes it absurdly good, so much so it can sweep even Ubers teams.

 

[LukeRNG]

What is everyone's hopes for this year in terms of what Nintendo will do in general? Smash, Pokemon, Zelda, etc.

 

[Cosmic77]

What is everyone's hopes for this year in terms of what Nintendo will do in general? Smash, Pokemon, Zelda, etc.

Zelda and Pokémon should be a given. We're probably getting something big from both, even if it's not directly because of the anniversaries.

Aside from them, I'm not sure. My guess is Metroid, Kirby, and FE. Out of the three, I'd probably say Kirby is the one I'm most confident in. Hal has been pretty quiet lately, and it's been close to three years since Star Allies. Another installment should be approaching fairly soon.

 

[Noipoi]

What is everyone's hopes for this year in terms of what Nintendo will do in general? Smash, Pokemon, Zelda, etc.

Hopes? Diamond and Pearl remakes, new Donkey Kong Country, Crash in Smash, Toxtricity in smash, Zelda collection, Botw 2, odyssey 2.

Expectations? D/P remakes or Let’s Go Johto, new Kirby, Botw 2, new fire emblem, the protagonist of new fire emblem being put into smash.

 

[zacian]

What is everyone's hopes for this year in terms of what Nintendo will do in general? Smash, Pokemon, Zelda, etc.

Pokémon 2

 

[fogbadge]

What is everyone's hopes for this year in terms of what Nintendo will do in general? Smash, Pokemon, Zelda, etc.

well i suppose i hope we get botw2 this year, we get an awesome game for pokemon and at least one of the last three characters is someone i like. beyond that just the usual stuff

 

[LukeRNG]

Zelda and Pokémon should be a given. We're probably getting something big from both, even if it's not directly because of the anniversaries.

Aside from them, I'm not sure. My guess is Metroid, Kirby, and FE. Out of the three, I'd probably say Kirby is the one I'm most confident in. Hal has been pretty quiet lately, and it's been close to three years since Star Allies. Another installment should be approaching fairly soon.

I believe they mentioned that their next kirby game would be greatly ambitious, "the peak of kirby" or something like that.

Hopes? Diamond and Pearl remakes, new Donkey Kong Country, Crash in Smash, Toxtricity in smash, Zelda collection, Botw 2, odyssey 2.

Expectations? D/P remakes or Let’s Go Johto, new Kirby, Botw 2, new fire emblem, the protagonist of new fire emblem being put into smash.

I think we'll be safe from another FE character for now. There's usually 2.5-3 year gaps between new releases.

Pokémon 2

Not before Pokemon 1.5 HD collection.

well i suppose i hope we get botw2 this year, we get an awesome game for pokemon and at least one of the last three characters is someone i like. beyond that just the usual stuff

What are characters you wouldn't like or are indifferent towards? And currently which is your biggest want for characters?

After being in a bit of a Mystery Dungeon revisit, I've now concluded Grovyle is my only dream character to get into smash and then I'll never ask Sakurai for anything ever again (though a SwSh pokemon is fine too).

 

[Cosmic77]

Even if we did get another mainline FE game that wasn't a remake, I doubt they'd add another character. As this point, it'd probably do more harm than good for FE.

The first-party will likely be from something else. Zelda and Pokémon would be my bets, only because both have a relatively new game that would offer a lot of content to pull from. There will probably be more contenders as the year goes on though.

 

[fogbadge]

What are characters you wouldn't like or are indifferent towards? And currently which is your biggest want for characters?

ones i dont want include dante and cinderace. indifference would be characters like 2B. as for biggest wants toad/toadette and chibi-robo but i dont fancy their odds. and of course there are many other characters of different levels of want including the two wolves we like to talk about here.

 

[Gengar84]

Zacien and Zamazenta are both cool and would make for very interesting Smash characters. I would much rather have these two than any of the starters. Cinderace is the least exciting of the three since we already have so many brawlers with fire based attacks. Rillaboom and Intelion are a little better but we already have Donkey Kong and Greninja. The closest thing we have to Zacien and Zamazenta is Duck Hunt and despite all being dogs, they would be nothing alike.

My top Galar picks are Orbeetle, Toxtricity, or Corviknight, but these two would be great as well. If I had to choose between these two, I think Zamazenta has the cooler design so I would go with it. Zacien already gets way more attention in the Pokémon games because it is much stronger competitively so Zamazenta could use some love too.

 

[fogbadge]

Rillaboom and Intelion are a little better but we already have Donkey Kong and Greninja.

yes cause DK is well known for his grass based attacks and greninja behaves very much like a western spy

 

[Gengar84]

yes cause DK is well known for his grass based attacks and greninja behaves very much like a western spy

How many fire attacks does Incineroar have again? Intellion and Joker are also both based on spies. I’m not saying Rillaboom and Intelion wouldn’t be mostly unique, just that they have more in common with characters we already have than Zacien or Zamazenta. I actually kind of like all three starters, I just think it would be a little boring to get yet another starter when we already have Pokemon Trainer, Greninja, and Incineroar.

 

[fogbadge]

How many fire attacks does Incineroar have again? Intellion and Joker are also both based on spies. I’m not saying Rillaboom and Intelion wouldn’t be mostly unique, just that they have more in common with characters we already have than Zacien or Zamazenta. I actually kind of like all three starters, I just think it would be a little boring to get yet another starter when we already have Pokemon Trainer, Greninja, and Incineroar.

joker is a thief not a spy and inceneroar was chosen on his trope rather than his own merits unlike the others. besides you shouldnt use similarity to another character to dismiss someone, youll run out of characters fast that way.

 

[Gengar84]

joker is a thief not a spy and inceneroar was chosen on his trope rather than his own merits unlike the others. besides you shouldnt use similarity to another character to dismiss someone, youll run out of characters fast that way.

That is a fair point about Joker. I actually beat Persona 5 and you are right. Thieves, ninjas, and spies all do have a lot in common with being based on stealth and agility. I'm not dismissing anyone. The starters are fine and probably the most likely choices to get in Smash. I'm just saying that I would personally not be as interested in them. I'm not attacking anybody that wants them. I want a lot of characters most people would disagree with me about and I'm fine with that. It's all just a matter of opinion. I apologize if I came across like I was putting anyone down for wanting the starters.

 

[Bobthealligator]

no I was saying the meme was racist.

I mean, that even outside of the discussion about that particular stereotype, it's not racist, because Scottish isn't a race.

 

[fogbadge]

That is a fair point about Joker. I actually beat Persona 5 and you are right. Thieves, ninjas, and spies all do have a lot in common with being based on stealth and agility. I'm not dismissing anyone. The starters are fine and probably the most likely choices to get in Smash. I'm just saying that I would personally not be as interested in them. I'm not attacking anybody that wants them. I want a lot of characters most people would disagree with me about and I'm fine with that. It's all just a matter of opinion. I apologize if I came across like I was putting anyone down for wanting the starters.

not at all

I mean, that even outside of the discussion about that particular stereotype, it's not racist, because Scottish isn't a race.

nationalist then

 

[Cosmic77]

Everyone is gonna see the starters differently. Needless to say, the people who like them will probably see more potential, whereas the people who don't will probably have a harder time picturing the character with a moveset that would be superior to other options.

Nothing wrong with liking or disliking certain Pokémon. Just make sure to respect the opinions of others and try not to take criticism of Pokémon so personal. Probably stating the obvious, but it's good to have a reminder sometimes.

 

[fogbadge]

Everyone is gonna see the starters differently. Needless to say, the people who like them will probably see more potential, whereas the people who don't will probably have a harder time picturing the character with a moveset that would be superior to other options.

Nothing wrong with liking or disliking certain Pokémon. Just make sure to respect the opinions of others and try not to take criticism of Pokémon so personal. Probably stating the obvious, but it's good to have a reminder sometimes.

well it wasnt the disliking i was criticing so much as the notion that they would play similar to other characters based on very little

 

[LukeRNG]

So uh.... this is happening:

【スピリッツイベント】
1/8(金)から5日間、『100年前の戦場へ ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』を開催！ 期間中、『ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』の新規スピリッツ3種が登場します。ぜひチェックしてみてください！#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/xLNfy7UhFv

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) January 6, 2021

Did other spirit events release this late in comparison to the launch of their games? I forgot the last time they did a spirit event for a recently released game. Hopefully people are open to the idea of getting Skyward Sword Impa (if a Zelda rep is indeed coming), the version I always thought made the most sense (since Hyrule Warriors & Age of Calamity aren't mainline Zelda games).

 

[Perkilator]

So uh.... this is happening:

【スピリッツイベント】
1/8(金)から5日間、『100年前の戦場へ ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』を開催！ 期間中、『ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』の新規スピリッツ3種が登場します。ぜひチェックしてみてください！#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/xLNfy7UhFv

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) January 6, 2021

Did other spirit events release this late in comparison to the launch of their games? I forgot the last time they did a spirit event for a recently released game. Hopefully people are open to the idea of getting Skyward Sword Impa (if a Zelda rep is indeed coming), the version I always thought made the most sense (since Hyrule Warriors & Age of Calamity aren't mainline Zelda games).

To my memory, Ring Fit Adventure got in one early-mid March 2020 after its release in October 2019.

 

[Staarih]

To my memory, Ring Fit Adventure got in one early-mid March 2020 after its release in October 2019.

Yup. Astral Chain also got its spirits like ~5 months after the game's release and Octopath Traveler a whole year after.

Cool to finally have some new spirits though.

 

[Cosmic77]

Astral Chain Spirits came out in January 2020 when the game launched in August 2019. Ring Fit got Spirits in March 2020 when it was released in September 2019. There's also Link's Awakening which had the exact opposite happen; Spirits in June 2019, but game in September 2019.

Anyway, AoC Spirits aren't as notable as people make them out to be. Obviously it's notable for Impa supporters, but Zelda spin-offs have historically been pretty neglected in Smash. I would've been genuinely surprised if anything besides Spirits came out of AoC. It also doesn't necessarily harm BotW2's chances of getting a newcomer in Smash since the characters featured as Spirits likely won't even be present in BotW2 (or at least Young Impa and Egg Guardian; Master Kohda is possible, but he's not high on the totem pole anyway.) Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to randomly mix in AoC content in a bundle that focuses on a different game.

 

[fogbadge]

Zelda spin-offs have historically been pretty neglected in Smash.

tell me about it

 

[Pokelego999]

tell me about it

Poor Link's Crossbow Training...

 

[Delzethin]

Anyway, AoC Spirits aren't as notable as people make them out to be. Obviously it's notable for Impa supporters, but Zelda spin-offs have historically been pretty neglected in Smash. I would've been genuinely surprised if anything besides Spirits came out of AoC. It also doesn't necessarily harm BotW2's chances of getting a newcomer in Smash since the characters featured as Spirits likely won't even be present in BotW2 (or at least Young Impa and Egg Guardian; Master Kohda is possible, but he's not high on the totem pole anyway.) Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to randomly mix in AoC content in a bundle that focuses on a different game.

Not only that, but considering the window in which they seemingly started working on Corrin during Smash 4's DLC run and Sakurai's comments on how they narrowed down who they wanted for the spot, it's pretty likely that if Fighter #11 is another deliberately very recent first party character, they haven't even chosen who it'll be yet and won't for another few months.

This Spirit Event was likely planned out before they even knew if they'd get to bring in a character from the BotW sequel! Just like how the SwSh Spirit Event was probably set up before they hard committed to any specific Pokémon beyond "someone from Sword & Shield, we'll decide exactly who when the time comes".

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Not only that, but considering the window in which they seemingly started working on Corrin during Smash 4's DLC run and Sakurai's comments on how they narrowed down who they wanted for the spot, it's pretty likely that if Fighter #11 is another deliberately very recent first party character, they haven't even chosen who it'll be yet and won't for another few months.

This Spirit Event was likely planned out before they even knew if they'd get to bring in a character from the BotW sequel! Just like how the SwSh Spirit Event was probably set up before they hard committed to any specific Pokémon beyond "someone from Sword & Shield, we'll decide exactly who when the time comes".

That's cool but Sakurai stated the DLC for Pass 2 that the characters were already decided when the first wave of DLC was revealed. Fighting game characters aren't just developed on a whim. There's a lot of animations they have to go through, the character balance testing, the stage, the music, etc... so it makes a lot of sense to think a lot the DLC work is planned far in advance.

 

[fogbadge]

That's cool but Sakurai stated the DLC for Pass 2 that the characters were already decided when the first wave of DLC was revealed. Fighting game characters aren't just developed on a whim. There's a lot of animations they have to go through, the character balance testing, the stage, the music, etc... so it makes a lot of sense to think a lot the DLC work is planned far in advance.

he basing it on the same working as the base roster, we know that when the base roster for both ultimate and smash 4 he left spaces for new pokemon to be filled in later. also that logic is fair but byleth kinda proves that he can begin work on characters before their game is out. more to the point he never said that, the second pass wasnt planned until near the end of the first

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Sorry I see how what I worded sound poor. When I said Sakurai said that when the DLC was revealed I meant when all the characters for it were revealed.

That said I think there is some room to estimate the progress of where pass 2 was before it was even announced in Byleth's presentation. I think if Sephiroth or any Final Fantasy character wasn't being considered at the time of Hero's presentation, we would have gotten the Chocobo hat with Hero. Any physical development for Sephiroth probably didn't start until waaaaaay later. However I infer that at the time Hero was going to be released, plans for a second wave of DLC had already been solidified enough for them to hold back Mii costumes.

I'm going to also make a pretty safe guess that Joker sold fighter pass pre-orders like crazy which would have kickstarted plans for a second pass a lot sooner! They added the freaking Joker from that one popular game heavily based on Sony consoles, what a steal. And of course we also know that Steve had been in the talks for 5 years prior to his coming and it would make sense if those plans would start being formed around the time Banjo released as well.

Not to be going off topic from the actual thread, I just stumbled upon Zelda rep talk which I fancy. More Zelda stuff would be very welcomed for a series whose represented by 6 characters, 2 of which are Link variants and another which is still Zelda (albeit with at least a unique moveset). I just don't see it as likely.

 

[fogbadge]

Sorry I see how what I worded sound poor. When I said Sakurai said that when the DLC was revealed I meant when all the characters for it were revealed.

That said I think there is some room to estimate the progress of where pass 2 was before it was even announced in Byleth's presentation. I think if Sephiroth or any Final Fantasy character wasn't being considered at the time of Hero's presentation, we would have gotten the Chocobo hat with Hero. Any physical development for Sephiroth probably didn't start until waaaaaay later. However I infer that at the time Hero was going to be released, plans for a second wave of DLC had already been solidified enough for them to hold back Mii costumes.

I'm going to also make a pretty safe guess that Joker sold fighter pass pre-orders like crazy which would have kickstarted plans for a second pass a lot sooner! They added the freaking Joker from that one popular game heavily based on Sony consoles, what a steal. And of course we also know that Steve had been in the talks for 5 years prior to his coming and it would make sense if those plans would start being formed around the time Banjo released as well.

Not to be going off topic from the actual thread, I just stumbled upon Zelda rep talk which I fancy. More Zelda stuff would be very welcomed for a series whose represented by 6 characters, 2 of which are Link variants and another which is still Zelda (albeit with at least a unique moveset). I just don't see it as likely.

or they just weren’t discussing FF while negotiating for hero, from what little we DQ may be a licensing nightmare and they just didn’t have the time to ask for another license to reuse the chocobo hat

 

[Cosmic77]

"The contents have already been decided" doesn't necessarily mean, "We already know exactly which characters will be added."

Nintendo never requested a specific character from ARMS, so F6 likely never had a specific character locked in until Sakurai met with the producer of the game.

 

[Delzethin]

That's cool but Sakurai stated the DLC for Pass 2 that the characters were already decided when the first wave of DLC was revealed. Fighting game characters aren't just developed on a whim. There's a lot of animations they have to go through, the character balance testing, the stage, the music, etc... so it makes a lot of sense to think a lot the DLC work is planned far in advance.

You're correct on one thing: It does take longer to develop new fighters than most of the community realizes. Based on reports, the whole process takes upwards of 6 months or longer.

However, we also know (from Sakurai and others) that the Smash devs don't always hard commit to specific characters for every single opening at the very beginning of a project plan. We've seen several past examples where they started with placeholders that they narrowed down at a later date. For example, during Smash 4's run, Greninja started as "a Pokémon from X & Y" and Corrin started as "a first party character from a very recent title". Something similar has already happened in Fighters Pass Vol. 2--Min Min was originally "a fighter from ARMS", and we almost got Ninjara instead! And while this is conjecture, I wouldn't be surprised if Sephiroth began as "another character from Square-Enix".

While Sakurai's statement about the entire Pass being chosen already is technically true, the full truth is a bit more complicated. This habit of using placeholders in the project plan where it makes sense to is even the reason why we here believe the SwSh Spirit Event from a little over a year ago doesn't affect Zacian or Zamazenta's chances. Smash has consistently used placeholders for Pokémon newcomers recently, and in the (fairly likely) scenario they wanted a SwSh Pokémon in FP2, they'd have stuck a placeholder in the project plan and waited to see who emerged as the best option, only locking them in for good once development on them is about to start.

If a Pokémon is Fighter #9 (probably set to release in April or late March), then development on them probably began around when they finished Steve in September (since the DLC team is smaller than the team they had for the base game and can only do so much at once) and the choice of which SwSh 'mon to go with would've been made around then. If a Pokémon is Fighter #11, then they may not have committed to one at all yet!

 

[LukeRNG]

You're correct on one thing: It does take longer to develop new fighters than most of the community realizes. Based on reports, the whole process takes upwards of 6 months or longer.

However, we also know (from Sakurai and others) that the Smash devs don't always hard commit to specific characters for every single opening at the very beginning of a project plan. We've seen several past examples where they started with placeholders that they narrowed down at a later date. For example, during Smash 4's run, Greninja started as "a Pokémon from X & Y" and Corrin started as "a first party character from a very recent title". Something similar has already happened in Fighters Pass Vol. 2--Min Min was originally "a fighter from ARMS", and we almost got Ninjara instead! And while this is conjecture, I wouldn't be surprised if Sephiroth began as "another character from Square-Enix".

While Sakurai's statement about the entire Pass being chosen already is technically true, the full truth is a bit more complicated. This habit of using placeholders in the project plan where it makes sense to is even the reason why we here believe the SwSh Spirit Event from a little over a year ago doesn't affect Zacian or Zamazenta's chances. Smash has consistently used placeholders for Pokémon newcomers recently, and in the (fairly likely) scenario they wanted a SwSh Pokémon in FP2, they'd have stuck a placeholder in the project plan and waited to see who emerged as the best option, only locking them in for good once development on them is about to start.

If a Pokémon is Fighter #9 (probably set to release in April or late March), then development on them probably began around when they finished Steve in September (since the DLC team is smaller than the team they had for the base game and can only do so much at once) and the choice of which SwSh 'mon to go with would've been made around then. If a Pokémon is Fighter #11, then they may not have committed to one at all yet!

I can just imagine the absolute chaos the smash fandom would be in if they do end on a Pokemon character, after many have told themselves "they HAVE to end big (whether it's Sora or Master Chief), there's no way they'd make the same mistake of leaving the most dissapointing pick for last". Might be worse than Byleth's backlash since this is likely the end of dlc. Of course if it does happen it'll likely be due to priorities or some other things that prevented them from releasing the other (and quite likely) 1st party character sooner.

 

[Delzethin]

I can just imagine the absolute chaos the smash fandom would be in if they do end on a Pokemon character, after many have told themselves "they HAVE to end big (whether it's Sora or Master Chief), there's no way they'd make the same mistake of leaving the most dissapointing pick for last". Might be worse than Byleth's backlash since this is likely the end of dlc. Of course if it does happen it'll likely be due to priorities or some other things that prevented them from releasing the other (and quite likely) 1st party character sooner.

It'd be the fandom's fault for setting their expectations impossibly high. We have precedent of Smash reveal cycles winding down as they near the end. Better to temper expectations and see how things play out than expect or demand it end with a bombshell of hype the likes of which we've never seen when that isn't what Sakurai is trying to do in the first place.

Still...I think it's more likely they set aside a spot for a Pokémon newcomer and the "very recent first party" spot we saw Byleth and Corrin take the past two times. Pokémon is a Gigantamax-sized franchise with more reach than most third party franchises (despite being less glamorous to talk about) while also costing far less to get the necessary licensing since it's a Nintendo IP. To say no less of how each new generation always has several legitimate options for a new fighter!

 

[LukeRNG]

It'd be the fandom's fault for setting their expectations impossibly high. We have precedent of Smash reveal cycles winding down as they near the end. Better to temper expectations and see how things play out than expect or demand it end with a bombshell of hype the likes of which we've never seen when that isn't what Sakurai is trying to do in the first place.

Still...I think it's more likely they set aside a spot for a Pokémon newcomer and the "very recent first party" spot we saw Byleth and Corrin take the past two times. Pokémon is a Gigantamax-sized franchise with more reach than most third party franchises (despite being less glamorous to talk about) while also costing far less to get the necessary licensing since it's a Nintendo IP. To say no less of how each new generation always has several legitimate options for a new fighter!

How suprising would it be if we don't get a new pokemon chracter?

 

[Cosmic77]

There's a pretty good chance we won't get a Pokémon character in this DLC, but at the same time, I'd say Pokémon is in a better position than basically every other Nintendo IP at this point. Zelda is the only other franchise that I'd say comes close.

Wouldn't surprise me if we end up empty-handed, but I doubt there's gonna be a happy ending for any franchise that doesn't have a game on the Switch lacking a decent amount of content in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

How suprising would it be if we don't get a new pokemon chracter?

i would say not very. of course thats just me. but we have never had a new pokemon gen come out during a smash dlc cycle before so i dont think we can be so sure i will happen

 

[LukeRNG]

That's true, the dlc did end in 2015, the year of nothing from GF. Though other than Zelda I could see Xenoblade with a reasonable chance.

I've been thinking about it, and I must ask: why are spin-offs often glanced over in represenation? Other than Mario (which I also feel lacks quite a tad), other series with relativey big spin-offs tend to get next to nothing: Pokemon, Fire Emblem, & Zelda come to mind. Either it's 1 song, few spirits or nothing at all.

I get why they don't want to overdo it, but something substantial at least.

 

[fogbadge]

I've been thinking about it, and I must ask: why are spin-offs often glanced over in represenation? Other than Mario (which I also feel lacks quite a tad), other series with relativey big spin-offs tend to get next to nothing: Pokemon, Fire Emblem, & Zelda come to mind. Either it's 1 song, few spirits or nothing at all.

i have often wonder that myself, there would be so nice tracks a spirits here there to be included. and with the way TPC seems to push go im surprised we didnt get anything from it not even spirits of those three leaders