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The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

WeirdChillFever

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One thing we will have to worry about in the showcase: Whether there are any Pokémon-themed Mii costumes. The presence of one would lower the odds of any becoming playable, since why not save it until their update? Would likely limit our options to a "super recent first party" niche at #11 or so, since they wouldn't have even narrowed down which game they wanted the newcomer from until...well, probably not until around when Fighter #9 is done.

Not likely we see a costume here since it's only happened once before (Team Rocket oufits in Terry's update), but...worth being wary of.


Appropriately enough, I've seen people talking about how a future trailer could start with the same setup as Sephiroth's, except with Dharkon instead of Galeem. It'd actually fit perfectly to have the legendaries do something to stun Dharkon and then beam down to fight the dark god alongside the other characters just like in the battle against Eternatus.

Could even throw in some extra thematic touches. Like Dharkon's power causing some of the puppet fighters to grow to giant size and loom over everyone, only to be struck down one by one with a flash of light in a single blow!
Not that it matters a lot, but Team Rocket came with Banjo, whose presentation was on the same day as Terry was revealed
 

Cosmic77

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Either way, I'd say a Pokémon costume is least likely to show up with a SE character.

There's already some rumblings of this bundle not adding many costumes, so it wouldn't surprise me if we don't see anything that's not related to SE today.
 

Delzethin

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Either way, I'd say a Pokémon costume is least likely to show up with a SE character.

There's already some rumblings of this bundle not adding many costumes, so it wouldn't surprise me if we don't see anything that's not related to SE today.
Wait, where are you hearing such rumblings? Are they from a credible source? Because you figure the number of Square-Enix costumes, and therefore the likeliness of non-SE costumes, will depend on how cooperative Square-Enix was with licensing...

Not that it matters a lot, but Team Rocket came with Banjo, whose presentation was on the same day as Terry was revealed
Ah, damn, I was off by one. Still, the point remains.


In other news, I came up with one possible angle for how a Zacian + Zamazenta dual concept could swap between them. Actually came to me while playing as a certain someone in Age of Calamity.

King Rhoam's stance mechanic, specifically how you can follow up a strong attack by immediately swapping guises and perfoming a second strong attack with that moveset, could be a unique way to handle it. Certain attacks (some specials, throws, or smash attacks) could have the active mon deal a fairly strong hit on their own, with the added option to press B with good timing to have the other beam in and perform a followup attack while the first beams out.

Would be one way to handle it that'd be distinct from Pokémon Trainer.
 
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Cosmic77

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Wait, where are you hearing such rumblings? Are they from a credible source? Because you figure the number of Square-Enix costumes, and therefore the likeliness of non-SE costumes, will depend on how cooperative Square-Enix was with licensing...
Something may have changed since I last checked, but the notifications for the DLC content were found.

Basically, if we assume that all the notifications follow the same pattern as previous character bundles, either we're getting a single Mii costume, all the Mii costumes are crammed into one notification, or we're getting nothing and the notification is for something else.

May or may not mean anything in the long run. We'll see soon.
 

LukeRNG

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Looking at Sephiroth's stage reminded me of a stage idea I had years ago for pokemon, which I had dubbed "Legendary Battles".

Basically it's like the Northern Cave stage where the layout is simple, but the background is cinematic. In this case the stage would transition from legendary pokemon battle to battle; going through all generations available.
 

Pokelego999

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Looking at Sephiroth's stage reminded me of a stage idea I had years ago for pokemon, which I had dubbed "Legendary Battles".

Basically it's like the Northern Cave stage where the layout is simple, but the background is cinematic. In this case the stage would transition from legendary pokemon battle to battle; going through all generations available.
I'd love to see that.
 

LukeRNG

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I do wonder what the missing Lloyd Irving & Monster Hunter Mii costumes mean, if anything at all?
Both do feel likely to be characters.

But since the last few returning mii costumes fit with their dlc character, they might fit well with the following dlc characters. Any of them could come alongside Zacian/Zamazenta in my eyes, though my bet is the 2 monster hunter mii costumes due to the 2 doggos being reminiscent of "monsters" due to their size (plus, pocket monsters) & being part of legends.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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I do wonder what the missing Lloyd Irving & Monster Hunter Mii costumes mean, if anything at all?
Both do feel likely to be characters.

But since the last few returning mii costumes fit with their dlc character, they might fit well with the following dlc characters. Any of them could come alongside Zacian/Zamazenta in my eyes, though my bet is the 2 monster hunter mii costumes due to the 2 doggos being reminiscent of "monsters" due to their size (plus, pocket monsters) & being part of legends.
I think Lloyd can return with mostly anyone at this point, since Namco’s costumes have been trickling in recently in mostly unrelated packs. Monster Hunter I’m not sure, though its absence doesn’t have to mean they specifically are in and could instead point to a Capcom fighter in general
 

fogbadge

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I do wonder what the missing Lloyd Irving & Monster Hunter Mii costumes mean, if anything at all?
Both do feel likely to be characters.

But since the last few returning mii costumes fit with their dlc character, they might fit well with the following dlc characters. Any of them could come alongside Zacian/Zamazenta in my eyes, though my bet is the 2 monster hunter mii costumes due to the 2 doggos being reminiscent of "monsters" due to their size (plus, pocket monsters) & being part of legends.
i think its a good thing for capcom fans
 

Delzethin

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So then. Seems like we're in the clear for now and our window of opportunity is opening to its widest.

It'll probably be until at least March before the next newcomer reveal, so is there something we can do in the meantime? Some way of spreading awareness and winning over more support? I've seen a lot of Pokémon fans hoping for something other than Yet Another Starter this time around, but it also seems like not many realize Zacian and Zamazenta are actual viable options. Yet when I've been able to pitch the idea to people who listen, I've seen (mostly) positive reception. Usually "if we do get someone from Sword & Shield, I'd be up for them".

Though we have two obstacles: a lack of resources...and the fact that there're also a lot of speculators more in it to see which third party crossovers happen next. Not only do we need to find a way to stir up interest, it'll also be in the face of opposition who'd see us as getting in the way...

Well, not like this all has any actual effect on who gets in. It'd just be nice to not feel like an outsider for once.

I do wonder what the missing Lloyd Irving & Monster Hunter Mii costumes mean, if anything at all?
Both do feel likely to be characters.
I don't know about both, but I think one of the two turning up playable is plausible.
 

Cosmic77

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Sadly, a lot of people have already ruled out Zacian and Zamazenta simply because of the Spirits. If it weren't for that, they might've gotten more support. Then again, a lot of people have ruled out SwSh as a whole because of the Spirits, and anyone who hasn't is likely leaning toward Cinderace or Rillaboom (prominent in anime and a grass type respectively). Even without Spirits, it may have been an uphill battle no matter what.

Regardless, convincing people to believe they have a chance doesn't matter in the long run. It won't have any impact at this point anyway. We could get someone as obvious as Cinderace or something as unexpected as Centiskorch.
 

fogbadge

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Regardless, convincing people to believe they have a chance doesn't matter in the long run. It won't have any impact at this point anyway. We could get someone as obvious as Cinderace or something as unexpected as Centiskorch.
the latter would be awesome
 

Delzethin

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Sadly, a lot of people have already ruled out Zacian and Zamazenta simply because of the Spirits. If it weren't for that, they might've gotten more support. Then again, a lot of people have ruled out SwSh as a whole because of the Spirits, and anyone who hasn't is likely leaning toward Cinderace or Rillaboom (prominent in anime and a grass type respectively). Even without Spirits, it may have been an uphill battle no matter what.
So...here's the thing about that.

On one hand, I think we have a legitimate argument for why that Spirit Event isn't a deal breaker for us:
  • We have several past examples where newcomers started out as placeholders of "character from [insert game or series here]", to be narrowed down later on once the situation is clearer.
  • The Smash developers have done exactly this for Pokémon newcomers two games in a row now. If they chose to add one from Sword & Shield now, we can reasonably believe they'd do the same thing. This means that if we're getting a new Pokémon in Fighters Pass 2, they did not choose exactly who they wanted back in November of last year; they would've waited.
  • We have an example in this very Pass of a placeholder being used already. According to Sakurai, Min Min started out as "a character from ARMS", and Ninjara came close to being chosen instead.
  • Considering how far ahead every step of development is planned out, we can reasonably believe that Spirit Events are planned several months in advance as well. Every SwSh 'mon present in its Spirit Event is among the earlier reveals, so this lines up.

Based on this, we can reasonably believe that the SwSh Spirit Event last year has no effect on the chances of a Pokémon from Sword & Shield getting in and tells us nothing about who might or might not be eligible. It'd have been weird for them not to include the games' cover legendaries in their plans for the event at a point where they may not have even been sure they'd get a chance to make anyone from Gen 8 playable!

Problem is...we can't just sit people down and ask them to listen to all of this. The Internet is a very impatient place.

But what if I told you there is a way to still stir up interest? Because the fan rules that are holding our support base back aren't applied consistently by fans. We get written off because many speculators believe the SwSh Spirit Event renders Zacian and Zamazenta ineligible...but then make exceptions for other characters from Season 1 events like the one for Resident Evil. We get overlooked because many speculators think only starter Pokémon have any real chance...but then make exceptions for characters like Urshifu (considered an easy "promotional" pick for the Isle of Armor expansion even though we're half a year past it now) or Toxtricity (who got popular outside the Pokémon fandom like Mimikyu did).

That's the thing: Smashers start making exceptions to their own rules if they get emotionally invested in a character (or believe said character is a shoo in).

So...I think that's what we could do to gain more of a following. Convince people that we have an idea here that is so interesting that they'll get interested too, stop writing us off from the get go, and actually hear us out for why it's also legitimately plausible.

Yeah... You can't make this stuff up.

Kinda sad but funny at the same time. Can't decide if that's a cool name to carry with you in real life or not.
Oh yeah. Heard about that one.

Well...there are worse names out there, but the poor kid's going to get made fun of at school for being named after a video game character unless he's very lucky. Hopefully he can get everyone to call him Zac for short.
 
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zacian

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So something kinda funny I noticed with Gloria in Masters. They added in theme skills, which is basically buffs for your team if at least two of them share a trait, like if their both from Unova or their Gym Leaders

And I guess since Gloria’s the only Galar character in the game, she doesn’t have a region theme cuz she can’t actually use it
52CBADE6-1849-42C2-93CC-ECFEDE980D92.jpeg
 

Cosmic77

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Unfortunately, we're running out of time before everyone turns their attention to the next Pokémon games. Once some kind of DP remake is announced, everyone will start predicting Garchomp, Torterra, or Cynthia. It'll be Let's Go Eevee all over again.

For now, let's just look forward to all the new Pokémon content we'll likely be getting next year. Can't say for sure if it'll have any effect on Smash, but more publicity can't hurt. At least we can say it would make more sense to reveal a Pokémon during the anniversary and when we're winding down with the pass.
 
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LukeRNG

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Unfortunately, we're running out of time before everyone turns their attention to the next Pokémon games. Once some kind of DP remake is announced, everyone will start predicting Garchomp, Torterra, or Cynthia. It'll be Let's Go Eevee all over again.

For now, let's just look forward to all the new Pokémon content we'll likely be getting next year. Can't say for sure if it'll have any effect on Smash, but more publicity can't hurt. At least we can say it would make more sense to reveal a Pokémon during the anniversary and when we're winding down with the pass.
I'd at least hope some people are smart enough to not let Remakes shift their focus away from the obvious gen 8 games. FireRed & LeafGreen were the only games that "affected" a charater pick; in this case Pokemon Trainer. They've never released a character before a game launches (outside Roy due to delay & to a lesser extent Corrin).
 

fogbadge

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Unfortunately, we're running out of time before everyone turns their attention to the next Pokémon games. Once some kind of DP remake is announced, everyone will start predicting Garchomp, Torterra, or Cynthia. It'll be Let's Go Eevee all over again.

For now, let's just look forward to all the new Pokémon content we'll likely be getting next year. Can't say for sure if it'll have any effect on Smash, but more publicity can't hurt. At least we can say it would make more sense to reveal a Pokémon during the anniversary and when we're winding down with the pass.
just like how we got a mario character during this anniversary
 

Cosmic77

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just like how we got a mario character during this anniversary
They can't have a relevant character for every occasion.

I'm not saying that they'll add a Pokémon character because of the anniversary. I only meant that they might be more inclined to release one closer to all the anniversary stuff when Pokémon is more relevant, assuming they have one.
 
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fogbadge

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They can't have a relevant character for every occasion.

I'm not saying that they'll add a Pokémon character because of the anniversary. I only meant that they might be more inclined to release one closer to all the anniversary stuff when Pokémon is more relevant, assuming they have one.
true, but with so many anniversaries next year im not gonna get my hopes up
 

LukeRNG

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I'm wondering if we'll get traditional Nintendo Directs back next year (not Partner Showcases or Mini Directs).
For sure they could just do another steve and tell us when a character reveal will drop, but I kinda feel showing the 1st party in a Nintendo Direct would be more fun. Especially since they could fake us out like with Isabelle's trailer.

And low key I'm thinking Mystery Dungon has a chance to get in smash (for some reason). Maybe it's my mind thinking of subvertions or under-the-radar picks they could go with, but then I remember The Pokemon Company likely has a say in the matter and of course they'd rather promote their flagship games over spin-offs. But for me all Fighter's Pass 2 characters have been characters I wasn't really thinking they'd actually add (I did think they'd have a chance, but not a big one). And judging from many people's reactions, many didn't expect an Arms character, Steve or Sephiroth to join smash in this dlc.

Plus Mystery Dungeon's future seems brighter now than before thanks to the remake.
 
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LukeRNG

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i can understand ARMS and to a lesser extent sephiroth, but i still dont get why so many people were so surprised by steve
For some reason many held Minecraft to the likes of Fortnite & Undertale as a Meme & calling it too "kiddy", "cringey", etc. to be in smash.

But for those who looked beyond that they felt it'd be "too complicated & hard" to be in smash. In general people create their own ideas & obstacles for why certain characters can't be in smash or wouldn't be picked over others they feel likely.

And to a lesser extent I'm at fault of this as well: I tend to keep many characters in the back of my mind as not happening this time around, mainly because of people limiting the characters they discuss most often. For instance many are expecting Monster Hunter to join next or as figter #10 and I feel similar about it. Of course now I'm trying to expect anyone, but I'll likely have similar reactions to Sephiroth with the rest of the dlc.


Edit: Now that Cloud's fighter spirit is updated to use his original artwork, where is Red & Leaf's FireRed & LeafGreen artwork? We already have Sugimori art with the SwSh spirits.
 
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fogbadge

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For some reason many held Minecraft to the likes of Fortnite & Undertale as a Meme & calling it too "kiddy", "cringey", etc. to be in smash.

But for those who looked beyond that they felt it'd be "too complicated & hard" to be in smash. In general people create their own ideas & obstacles for why certain characters can't be in smash or wouldn't be picked over others they feel likely.

And to a lesser extent I'm at fault of this as well: I tend to keep many characters in the back of my mind as not happening this time around, mainly because of people limiting the characters they discuss most often. For instance many are expecting Monster Hunter to join next or as figter #10 and I feel similar about it. Of course now I'm trying to expect anyone, but I'll likely have similar reactions to Sephiroth with the rest of the dlc.


Edit: Now that Cloud's fighter spirit is updated to use his original artwork, where is Red & Leaf's FireRed & LeafGreen artwork? We already have Sugimori art with the SwSh spirits.
people have created all sort of bizarre reasons to exclude or even include certain characters over the years. although "kiddy" confuses me as an argument against. probably cause a lot of the series ive been playing since i was a kid. also kirby is in this game
 

LukeRNG

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people have created all sort of bizarre reasons to exclude or even include certain characters over the years. although "kiddy" confuses me as an argument against. probably cause a lot of the series ive been playing since i was a kid. also kirby is in this game
They want to believe that smash is for grown ups... for some reason. Hence why I see some people want characters like Dante, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, Scorpion etc. over kiddy stuff like Sora, or most 1st party characters. It's stupid.

Okay, it doesn't. But Pokemon 25th Anniversary is on February 27th, long enough for the next Smash Bros fighter to be announced.
That's rarely been a factor in character reveals. And I'm still warry of potentially getting other 1st party characters instead of pokemon. I won't deny it'd be perfect timing for a pokemon reveal, but I think the next character reveal will be in March; to spread the 3 character more throughout the year.

And I'm curious to see if the 1st party character will be revealed in a Nintendo Direct or a trailer drop like Steve.
 
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fogbadge

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Okay, it doesn't. But Pokemon 25th Anniversary is on February 27th, long enough for the next Smash Bros fighter to be announced.
reveals are based on who’s ready not what significant events may be nearby

They want to believe that smash is for grown ups... for some reason. Hence why I see some people want characters like Dante, Doomguy, Ryu Hayabusa, Scorpion etc. over kiddy stuff like Sora, or most 1st party characters. It's stupid.
most of them have been playing them since they were kids
 

LukeRNG

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Somehow I missed this preview.

We finally got a tease for Grookey (took them long enough) and Inteleon, along with a few other additions. Firstly seeing Farfetch'd in actual armor is hilarious and needs to be a thing in the games. Secondly the debut of Wikstrom (who I forgot existed). And lastly a random Turtwig vs Chewtle (who can guess why Turtwig is there).

From the looks of things Zacian & Zamazenta will likely show up much later in the series and won't as reocurring as we all hoped.
 
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Cosmic77

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Somehow I missed this preview.

We finally got a tease for Grookey (took them long enough) and Inteleon, along with a few other additions. Firstly seeing Farfetch'd in actual armor is hilarious and needs to be a thing in the games. Secondly the debut of Wikstrom (who I forgot existed). And lastly a random Turtwig vs Chewtle (who can guess why Turtwig is there).

From the looks of things Zacian & Zamazenta will likely show up much later in the series and won't as reocurring as we all hoped.
About time they showed off Grookey. It's a little ridiculous how it took over a year just for it to debut, whereas Scorbunny reached its final evolution in less than a year.

As for Zacian and Zamazenta, their arc just ended. I doubt they'll appear on a regular basis unless they're caught. Probably won't see them again until they either bring back Rose or have Sorward and Shielbert debut.
 

Delzethin

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Well. Time to break up the quiet. How's the new year going for everyone so far?

And we begin 2021 with something very unusual:
Zacian potentially too strong for Ubers? Meanwhile, her brother is still waiting for some kind of Fighting STAB that doesn't carry a cost.

Somehow I missed this preview.

We finally got a tease for Grookey (took them long enough) and Inteleon, along with a few other additions. Firstly seeing Farfetch'd in actual armor is hilarious and needs to be a thing in the games. Secondly the debut of Wikstrom (who I forgot existed). And lastly a random Turtwig vs Chewtle (who can guess why Turtwig is there).

From the looks of things Zacian & Zamazenta will likely show up much later in the series and won't as reocurring as we all hoped.
Well, anime previews usually only cover a couple months ahead. This doesn't tell us anything about how things will go later this year.

Though it's interesting to see Grookey finally show up. Most likely going to end up in Goh's party like the other two starters, right?

people have created all sort of bizarre reasons to exclude or even include certain characters over the years. although "kiddy" confuses me as an argument against. probably cause a lot of the series ive been playing since i was a kid. also kirby is in this game
If anything, "hype factor" is being used as a gatekeeper more than anything nowadays. Characters are getting judged by how big of a reaction their reveals would create, which is why something comparatively mundane like a Pokémon newcomer gets written off as not being exciting enough.

Problem is, the whole argument cares more about the reveal trailers than the actual game. If a newcomer ends up appealing enough to play as that people already following Smash get interested in them, then it hardly matters how much attention they get from people outside the Smash fandom who wouldn't go out of their way to buy the DLC anyway unless one of their absolute favorites got in.

The next character reveal has to be a Pokemon especially if it's going to be unveiled in February.
Careful. Far as I know of, no prior newcomer reveal was tailored to line up with an anniversary. Just because it's Pokémon's 25th doesn't mean one must be happening for the sake of celebrating it. A SwSh newcomer is very plausible for unrelated reasons, and even if one is set to be Fighter #9, the reveal will happen when the Smash devs feel the time is right. Most likely either a standalone reveal or as part of a Nintendo Direct.

Though isn't it funny how we haven't seen the anniversary argument much for Pokémon after it popped up a few times for other franchises before now? No consistency in speculation, I swear...
 
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Pokelego999

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Well. Time to break up the quiet. How's the new year going for everyone so far?

And we begin 2021 with something very unusual:
Zacian potentially too strong for Ubers? Meanwhile, her brother is still waiting for some kind of Fighting STAB that doesn't carry a cost.
Zacian was a mistake in competitive. But if it is banned, it would be the second ever non GMax form to be banned to AG.
 

fogbadge

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If anything, "hype factor" is being used as a gatekeeper more than anything nowadays. Characters are getting judged by how big of a reaction their reveals would create, which is why something comparatively mundane like a Pokémon newcomer gets written off as not being exciting enough.

Problem is, the whole argument cares more about the reveal trailers than the actual game. If a newcomer ends up appealing enough to play as that people already following Smash get interested in them, then it hardly matters how much attention they get from people outside the Smash fandom who wouldn't go out of their way to buy the DLC anyway unless one of their absolute favorites got in.
yeah its a daft argument as we all calm down from the hype soon or later. and lets face its subjective and even if this was the criteria they used theres no guarantee theyd get it right, i mean even a character from the most successful video game so far had everyone split on it. besides surely terry and byleth disprove such a theory, iirc it wasnt hype after their reveals
 

zacian

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And we begin 2021 with something very unusual:
Zacian potentially too strong for Ubers? Meanwhile, her brother is still waiting for some kind of Fighting STAB that doesn't carry a cost.
is Zacian like really overpowered or something?
I don’t follow competitive
 
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