The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cosmic77

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#1
Zacian and Zamazenta

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Overview
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Zacian and Zamazenta are a pair of wolflike Legendary Pokémon from the latest entry in the Pokemon series, Pokémon Sword and Shield. It is said that Zacian holds a shining blade in its mouth that can cut through anything, while Zamazenta turns back any attack with the gleaming shield that covers its body.


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Why These Two?
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Well, why not? Pokemon tend to be unique from the rest of the roster, don't they? I'd also like to see something besides a starter get in. We've gotten a starter Pokemon as a newcomer in every Smash game since Brawl. Even if the resulting character is fresh, a lot of the fun has been siphoned away from speculation because of this. Many unique and creative Pokemon are passed over in favor of one of the three safest and most obvious options, the starters. I think it's time we get something a little more unpredictable.

But why these two specifically you ask? Well, I feel like the designs speak for themselves. A quad character is already an unusual and rare thing for Smash, but having a quad with a sword or a shield would be extremely creative.


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Questions & Answers
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Q: What could they do?

Zacian already has a huge chunk of it's moveset mapped out thanks to its sword, and because it's a Pokemon, obviously there's more to its sword than meets the eye. Zacian has the ability to summon it's sword from metal particles in the air, meaning it can summon it whenever it wants and switch between it's two forms (Hero of Many Battles form and Crowned Sword form). It also has the ability to detach the metal blades on it's back and merge them with the sword, creating a much larger and bulkier sword.

For those of you who don't care how creative Zacian could be because a swordfighter is a swordfighter, Zamazenta could be a very defensive character with multiple ways of deflecting, blocking, and counterattacking - a nice contrast to the abundance of characters that require aggressive, offensive playstyles. Its mane is capable of stopping the hardest of hits, but it doesn't stop Zamazenta from moving around since the shield is a part of its body. That's very different from our current fighters who sport Shields. And of course, it can switch between forms just like Zacian can.

Q: Isn't it way too late for these two?

Now that we know additional characters are planned, not at all. The fifth fighter is expected to release by February 2020, so anything after that would be in a perfect timeframe for a Gen VIII rep.

However, if you need more assurance, remember that Greninja was decided upon in late summer 2012. That's about a year and two/three months before XY was released. If any of these DLC characters were decided upon post launch of Ultimate, that's already significantly less time than Greninja required.

Q: They have Spirits. Isn't it game over?

It makes them look less likely, sure, but it's not the end of road for many reasons.

  1. The Nintendo Versus Twitter account specifically said that the Gen VIII Spirits were being added to celebrate the release of Sword and Shield. They're promotional, and if promotion was their main goal, why hold these Spirits off for several months until the Gen VIII Pokemon got in? By then, Sword and Shield would be dying down. Sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?
  2. As you can see in this thread, there's plenty of artwork to choose from. Since their Spirit is combined, they could easily add one or even both and make a Spirit for them individually. More importantly, none of the Gen VIII Spirits use the same artwork that every other Pokemon Spirit uses (save for PT and Detective Pikachu, who comes from a spinoff), despite their artwork existing beforehand. Zacian's artwork can be seen here.
  3. We still don't even know if Spirits deconfirm. Every DLC fighter so far has come from a franchise that didn't have any content in Smash to begin with. The only exception is Piranha Plant, who was clearly in development for a long time prior to his announcement. He had to have been, otherwise we wouldn't have a Palutena's Guidance for him or an amiibo that was released right after his release.

Q: How are these two better than the other Gen VIII Pokemon?

Regardless of what I say, it all comes down to opinions. I still think these two would be very unique, but some of you might want Sirfetch'd or Toxtricity instead. Nothing wrong with that.

That being said, I do think Zacian and Zamazenta have one of the best chances out of the Gen VIII Pokemon. Every Pokemon we've gotten so far received a fair amount of promotion from TPC during their Gen, and I don't doubt for a second that this influences Sakurai. He wants to make sure he picks a Pokemon people will recognize and enjoy, which is probably why the two most recent additions are starters.

Q: How the heck would Zacian hold items and grab fighters if it's already carrying a sword?

Because someone's gonna ask.

It's something that can easily be worked around. Zacian's ribbon-like fur functions similarly to Sylveon's ribbons. In other words, it has full control of them, and we even see in official artwork that they also work as a makeshift sheath for its sword. The ribbons can also carry two-handed items as well.

Q: We're only getting third-parties. Why bother?

Now hold on! We don't know that for sure. That's just something fans have started assuming for themselves. Until we learn who the final character is or Nintendo themselves make a statement confirming it, it's fair game.


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Supporters
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FOUNDER - Cosmic77
2. Pokelego999
3. Garteam
4. fogbadge
5. Thatkidwiththeafro
6. Staarih
7. RealPokeFan11
8. kirbsmash
9. dezeray112
10. WeirdChillFever
11. Delzethin
12. Adelto
13. Poochy756
14. AndreaAC
15. Guh-Huzzah!
16. Veenon
17. Noipoi
18. GothFluttershy
19. Altais
20. RandomAce
21. Zeb Nasaki



Credit to:

Leparagon, for the Zacian and Zamazenta sprites.​
 
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Garteam

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#4
I'm gonna put my support behind these two. I still think getting a Sword/Shield rep isn't possible for this Fighter's Pass based on timing, but I'd be very interested in seeing one of them in a Wave 2. Plus, it's still kinda weird that Mewtwo is the only legendary we have playable in Smash.
 

Cosmic77

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#5
I'm gonna put my support behind these two. I still think getting a Sword/Shield rep isn't possible for this Fighter's Pass based on timing, but I'd be very interested in seeing one of them in a Wave 2. Plus, it's still kinda weird that Mewtwo is the only legendary we have playable in Smash.
Updated list of supporters to include you.

Timing shouldn't have been an issue since this game has been publicly known to be in the works since 2017. Shouldn't be any different from how Sakurai handled Greninja in Smash 4's base roster. It's development started over a year before Greninja was even revealed and X/Y was officially released. Heck, if anything this should be far easier for him. It's unlikely he's even began on the fourth and fifth character. Since both are already revealed, it's likely GameFreak is almost complete with the game, making getting access to quality information on both Pokemon simplier.

The bigger obstacle is Nintendo. Obviously they've known about this game long before DLC talk even bagan, so it really just depends on how badly they wanted it. Pokemon doesn't really need the promotion to do well, so it's possible they didn't see a point in it if there was another character who would benefit them even more.
 
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Cosmic77

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#7
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
 

Garteam

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#8
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
I really want to see them explore the canine angle of Zacian/Zamazenta. For a roster as diverse as Smash Ultimate's is, most characters are generally pretty humanoid in their fighting style, even if they aren't human themselves. I want to see a character who completely breaks away from that convention and full dives into an animal-like fighting style. Ridley kinda does this already, but his moveset is more based around brutality than being a beast.

Otherwise, I'm not entirely sure what to make of their movesets. I'd probably have to learn a little more about the way these two function in Sword/Shield before I could developing some more in depth ideas.
 
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LukeRNG

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#9
I can see them being swappable like pokemon trainer but the moves would be the same for both pokemon like how simon has moves derived from richter. The stats could be different, like if you play as Zacian you offence gets stronger but you get more damage and your shield is weaker (and maybe are faster and more nimble), and if you play Zamazenta your shield gets stronger and take less damage but also cause less damage (you could also be slower and heavier).
Of course we've yet to know what signature moves and other differences they will have from eachother.

Can't really think how they could work as 2 characters.
 

fogbadge

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#11
So just out of curiosity, what kind of special attacks/gimmicks would you like Zacian and Zamazenta to have if they got in Smash? Has anyone considered some type of tag team character, where both get in and you can switch between an offensive and a defensive character depending on what you need at the moment?

Any other ideas?
i think we're gonna need to wait until we learn a bit more about them
 

Cosmic77

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#12
I really want to see them explore the canine angle of Zacian/Zamazenta. For a roster as diverse as Smash Ultimate's is, most characters are generally pretty humanoid in their fighting style, even if they aren't human themselves. I want to see a character who completely breaks away from that convention and full dives into an animal-like fighting style. Ridley kinda does this already, but his moveset is more based around brutality than being a beast.
If that's what you're looking for, then Zamazenta might be the one you'll want to support. As cool as Zacion looks, it'll be hard to deliver on your wish for a primal animal fighter when most of it's tilts and Smash attack will likely involve the sword. Zamazenta would be more likely to receive attacks involving actual animalistic attacks.

I can see them being swappable like pokemon trainer but the moves would be the same for both pokemon like how simon has moves derived from richter. The stats could be different, like if you play as Zacian you offence gets stronger but you get more damage and your shield is weaker (and maybe are faster and more nimble), and if you play Zamazenta your shield gets stronger and take less damage but also cause less damage (you could also be slower and heavier).
Of course we've yet to know what signature moves and other differences they will have from eachother.

Can't really think how they could work as 2 characters.
I imagined them functioning identical to PT and his three Pokémon, but the focus would be on playstyles. Choose Zacion if you need to be aggressive and keep your opponent at bay. Choose Zamazenta if you're looking to take advantage of an aggressive but predictable player and counterattack/reflect projectiles/reduce damage taken.
 

Staarih

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#13
Sure, count me in.

Another non-humanoid/quadrupled character is something I've been wishing for a while in the midst of the plethora of humanoid characters, and Pokémon would be one to surely deliver at that. As Lycanroc, the best bet for one as of late, is slowly losing its time in the limelight, Zacian/Zamazenta might be the next best thing. And even a non-starter at that, I'd take it. I dunno if I'm into them having the same slot/being swappable, but then again it's difficult to choose one as they're pretty much equal. I personally prefer Zamazenta, but Zacian inherently has more potential because of the sword (another sword character lul).

Anyway, we'll see how things turn out, I've really grown to like their designs, might be some of my favourite legendaries yet.
 

Cosmic77

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#14
Sure, count me in.

Another non-humanoid/quadrupled character is something I've been wishing for a while in the midst of the plethora of humanoid characters, and Pokémon would be one to surely deliver at that. As Lycanroc, the best bet for one as of late, is slowly losing its time in the limelight, Zacian/Zamazenta might be the next best thing. And even a non-starter at that, I'd take it. I dunno if I'm into them having the same slot/being swappable, but then again it's difficult to choose one as they're pretty much equal. I personally prefer Zamazenta, but Zacian inherently has more potential because of the sword (another sword character lul).

Anyway, we'll see how things turn out, I've really grown to like their designs, might be some of my favourite legendaries yet.
Regarding the swappable character thing, I was just spitballing a few ideas. I don't even know if Sakurai would consider something like a second "transformation" Pokemon character. PT already does a near-perfect job of representing that.

But yeah, these two would be a nice compensation for not getting Lycanroc. Really wanted another quad like Ivysaur instead of the Pokemon who are bipeds and incredibly easy to imagine in a fighting game. Although at this point, I think I'm more concerned about not getting a starter than I am getting a quad. It's getting to a point where Pokemon newcomers are predictable and somewhat unimaginative. Feels like FE reps in the sense that you can narrow it down to just the main lord or the avatar. In this case, the starters.
 
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#15
Any Pokémon that sounds really cool in Smash is one that I will support. Coming from the owner of the Xurkitree thread, I don't care if there's 10 Pokémon in the game. Unlike FE, Pokémon has some of the most fun and diverse movesets in the game. I'm supporting Zacian
 

fogbadge

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#16
Any Pokémon that sounds really cool in Smash is one that I will support. Coming from the owner of the Xurkitree thread, I don't care if there's 10 Pokémon in the game. Unlike FE, Pokémon has some of the most fun and diverse movesets in the game. I'm supporting Zacian
going by your avatar might i guess youd be up for corviknight as well?
 

Cosmic77

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#20
I'd say maybe another important pokemon. I'm supporting, but it's most likely going to be someone else.
Wait, are you referring to Corviknight or the Legendaries? If it's the latter, then I don't know which Pokemon would be considered more important than the boxart Legendaries, aside from maybe starters.
 

Cosmic77

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#24
I feel that it's too little, too late for any of the 8th generation Pokemon to get any kind of representation in Smash Ultimate.
Time was never the real problem. The general public has known a new game featuring a new Gen would be coming out since E3 2017. If Nintendo wanted a Gen VIII Pokemon, they could've easily told Sakurai to repeat what he's done before - pencil in a spot for a new Pokemon and work on the other characters first. That way GameFreak would have more notes, finalized pictures, and spreadsheets of attacks to look at. It really wouldn't have been that hard.

I feel like people keep mistakenly using Rex as an example why newer characters won't get in. It's actually way different. For starters, XC2 would be close to two years old before Rex would be officially revealed, so the push for Nintendo to add Rex would come almost entirely from whatever fan support he has, not promotion. Second, if there's only five characters and Rex was already too late for the base roster, then how do we know bad timing or timing in general had anything to do with Rex being a Mii costume instead of DLC? Simply put, maybe Nintendo chose others over him.

A Gen VIII Pokemon is possible, but as I've stated before, it all falls on who Nintendo wants in Smash.

Boxart legendaries are normally too big.
I don't think we should use the size argument anymore, especially after Ridley.

But, if it really seems like that big of an issue to you, just remember that Pokemon have never followed accurate heights in Smash, both playable and non-playable. Compare Pikachu's actual height to Mewtwo and Greninja.
 
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Cosmic77

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#29
I just realized Zacian actually has wings. I don't know if they're purely asthetic, but imagine having a flying dog who fights with a sword in Smash.

Tell me you wouldn't want to see that.

i mean is mewtwo even a cat? i mean sure "mew" comes from cats but still
Mewtwo's design was inspired from Mew's, who was clearly modeled after some sort of feline. It's just that the artists added a lot of features that would make Mewtwo look like an alien or monster.
 
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#30
Started supporting Lycanroc because his four-leggedness required him to spin, jump and slide around in order to attack with realistic momentum but this is that but with a sword so yeah I support. Zamazenta would also be cool but less flexible due to the more defensive playstyle.
 

SvartWolf

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#31
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...

still though, i really believe that the whole fighter pass will be new series, so no pokemon.. although pokemon is like THE franchise that like being an exception to all rules :/

I still think i prefer amateratsu though :x
 
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Cosmic77

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#32
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...
To be fair, there's still a lot about these two that we don't know about. Once we learn what type they are, we can start looking at possible moves - moves that help distinquish it from the other options. I'm sure they're both steel, but chances are they'll have a second one too. Maybe Water/Steel and Fire/Steel? Does anyone see it differently?
 

fogbadge

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#33
Mewtwo's design was inspired from Mew's, who was clearly modeled after some sort of feline. It's just that the artists added a lot of features that would make Mewtwo look like an alien or monster.
well alright but if you want to compare animal amounts felines are doing better than frogs

and in terms of your list, you left out apes (2), lizards (1), crocodiles (1) and dinosaurs (2)





sorry for being a pedant
 
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LukeRNG

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#34
that's.... a weird way to spell Sif...

yeah... still prefer lycanrock and i like the idea of lycanrock rock attacks over this guys, but at least this guys put a lot of interesting stuff than lycanrock would also bring...

still though, i really believe that the whole fighter pass will be new series, so no pokemon.. although pokemon is like THE franchise that like being an exception to all rules :/

I still think i prefer amateratsu though :x
I would wait till we see all 5 characters to confirm that they're all from new series. I don't know if it's still a missconception from Reggie's statement at the game awards where people thought they heard him say "characters from new series" instead from what he actually said: "These characters will be new to the smash series, just like Joker, characters you wouldn't anticipate to be in super smash bros.". Again, i'm not saying that all 5 characters couldn't be from new series, but it's still too soon to confirm with just Joker. I'd at least wait till after the nintendo direct at e3, where i do think they will announce the next 2 dlc fighters.

I feel that it's too little, too late for any of the 8th generation Pokemon to get any kind of representation in Smash Ultimate.
In my eyes, it really depends on whether there will be a second fighter's pass or not. It's very possible for it to happen, but of course we'll have to pay attention to all gen 8 pokemon that exist at the time of the second pass being revealed to see if the legendaries will have competition or not (most notably, the starter pokemon). Unless my starter pick, sobble, has an amazing final evolution, i'll still support Zacian/Zamazenta because they seem to have a lot of potential.
 

Cosmic77

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#35
Okay, so there's something interesting about Zacian that a lot of us may have missed during the presentation.

zacian.jpg


Apparently, those things on its back that I mistook for wings are actually parts of the sword. They can separate from Zacian and fuse with the initial sword to create the larger version in the top right.

Now that's actually something we can use to make a case for Zacian being a unique fighter. While in this powered-up state, his sword could have a much larger disjointed hitbox and additional power, making it easier to safely poke at people from a distance. Don't know if that'd be his main gimmick, but at least there's more to the sword than we initially thought.
 

Pokelego999

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#36
Time was never the real problem. The general public has known a new game featuring a new Gen would be coming out since E3 2017. If Nintendo wanted a Gen VIII Pokemon, they could've easily told Sakurai to repeat what he's done before - pencil in a spot for a new Pokemon and work on the other characters first. That way GameFreak would have more notes, finalized pictures, and spreadsheets of attacks to look at. It really wouldn't have been that hard.

I feel like people keep mistakenly using Rex as an example why newer characters won't get in. It's actually way different. For starters, XC2 would be close to two years old before Rex would be officially revealed, so the push for Nintendo to add Rex would come almost entirely from whatever fan support he has, not promotion. Second, if there's only five characters and Rex was already too late for the base roster, then how do we know bad timing or timing in general had anything to do with Rex being a Mii costume instead of DLC? Simply put, maybe Nintendo chose others over him.

A Gen VIII Pokemon is possible, but as I've stated before, it all falls on who Nintendo wants in Smash.



I don't think we should use the size argument anymore, especially after Ridley.

But, if it really seems like that big of an issue to you, just remember that Pokemon have never followed accurate heights in Smash, both playable and non-playable. Compare Pikachu's actual height to Mewtwo and Greninja.
Ridley was only because of fan demand. And what I mean by "too big" is like if you say ho-oh or arceus or something. These guys are slightly smaller, but out of the two, Zacion is more likely. He's small enough, and another swordfighter. Unless They get high demand, we won't see em in smash.
 

Cosmic77

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#37
Ridley was only because of fan demand. And what I mean by "too big" is like if you say ho-oh or arceus or something. These guys are slightly smaller, but out of the two, Zacion is more likely. He's small enough, and another swordfighter. Unless They get high demand, we won't see em in smash.
Fan demand doesn't magically make the issue of a character's size go away. Sakurai decides whether or not he can make a character work, and so far, size doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

Zacian and Zamazenta are large, yes, but they aren't anywhere near Ridley's average size outside of Smash. It's nothing Sakurai shouldn't be able to handle if he were seriously considering them.
 

Pokelego999

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#38
Fan demand doesn't magically make the issue of a character's size go away. Sakurai decides whether or not he can make a character work, and so far, size doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

Zacian and Zamazenta are large, yes, but they aren't anywhere near Ridley's average size outside of Smash. It's nothing Sakurai shouldn't be able to handle if he were seriously considering them.
His average size is about a head taller than samus
 

Cosmic77

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#39
Tomorrow is finally E3. We might finally learn some more info about these two, such as what type they'll end up being and what moves they'll be able to use. In the meantime, all we can do is speculate.

Here's a very detailed piece of fan art featuring sword wolf and shield wolf. Seems like people are really into their designs.

 

RandomAce

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#40
I’m not sure about them.

I like that Game Freak decided to use divine wolves for their legendaries this generation, but I’m not that keen on their designs. They’re still awesome, but I feel that the Sword sticks out too much for Zacion, and Zamazenta looks like a lion at times, among a couple minor things.

Sadly, I still would prefer Lycanroc if I’m being completely honest with you. But I’m still willing to look at what the rest of Gen 8 has to offer before I start pushing for a specific Pokémon I may like.
 
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