The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


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fogbadge

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A lot of people had completely ruled out ARMS due to the AT and Spirits, and quite a few people were expecting nothing but third-parties due to the heavy focus on them in the first pass and Sakurai's comments on expanding the world of Smash.
arent they the same people who ruled out other characters only to be proven wrong
 

Cosmic77

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arent they the same people who ruled out other characters only to be proven wrong
At this point, no one should really care what rules the fanbase comes up with.

First there was "only third-parties, no first-parties". That was wrong. Then there was Sakurai's statement in Banjo's presentation that created "only new universes". That was wrong. Now we're potentially getting a character who will deconfirm the "ATs deconfirm" rule AND the "Spirits deconfirm" rule in one fell swoop.

Fact is, people want to make rules to narrow down their options. Some people may even use these rules to convince themselves their favorites are more likely. People are free to believe whatever they want, but ultimately, they have no proof to support their claim other than a pattern that could be broken by the next reveal trailer.
 

fogbadge

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At this point, no one should really care what rules the fanbase comes up with.

First there was "only third-parties, no first-parties". That was wrong. Then there was Sakurai's statement in Banjo's presentation that created "only new universes". That was wrong. Now we're potentially getting a character who will deconfirm the "ATs deconfirm" rule AND the "Spirits deconfirm" rule in one fell swoop.

Fact is, people want to make rules to narrow down their options. Some people may even use these rules to convince themselves their favorites are more likely. People are free to believe whatever they want, but ultimately, they have no proof to support their claim other than a pattern that could be broken by the next reveal trailer.
yeah, whatever the fans think odds are the dev team are thinking something else, ive been of the opinion that nearly any video game character is fair game now.
 

LukeRNG

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Would we get character #7 announced in June after the potential blowout of the Arms character?
I wonder if they'll do a direct like usual or if it's something different. If it's a direct, they could easily start with the arms character reveal and do fighter #7 as the last (or penultimate) announcement, who could be anyone at this point. Maybe a bit more towards a 3rd party because it's e3 time.

If we got 1st party characters announced, i can easily see it being either a gen 8 pokemon or Rex & Pyra.
 
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fogbadge

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Would we get character #7 announced in June after the potential blowout of the Arms character?
I wonder if they'll do a direct like usual or if it's something different. If it's a direct, they could easily start with the arms character reveal and do fighter #7 as the last (or penultimate) announcement, who could be anyone at this point. Maybe a bit more towards a 3rd party because it's e3 time.

If we got 1st party characters announced, i can easily see it being either a gen 8 pokemon or Rex & Pyra.
sounds like something they might do, even with e3 cancelled theyll probably still have the announcements to make, although theyll probably have to forgo most of the usual flourish and fanfare
 

StrangeKitten

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Would we get character #7 announced in June after the potential blowout of the Arms character?
I wonder if they'll do a direct like usual or if it's something different. If it's a direct, they could easily start with the arms character reveal and do fighter #7 as the last (or penultimate) announcement, who could be anyone at this point. Maybe a bit more towards a 3rd party because it's e3 time.

If we got 1st party characters announced, i can easily see it being either a gen 8 pokemon or Rex & Pyra.
I think June will bring us tons of Nintendo news. We didn't hear about much first party stuff in the recent Direct; presumably, they're saving it for June. The ARMS character getting a Byleth presentation (Meaning, trailer and breakdown by Sakurai in one) and release in June makes me think Nintendo is sticking to their E3 schedule despite E3 being cancelled. I think we'll get a big Direct in June, and character 7 revealed. It would make sense, and we need 7 released sometime this year if they intend on keeping the Dec 2021 date (which might have to get pushed pack, we'll see what happens with COVID after we'll presumably get a break from it in the summer but it returns in fall/winter).
 

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At this point, no one should really care what rules the fanbase comes up with.

First there was "only third-parties, no first-parties". That was wrong. Then there was Sakurai's statement in Banjo's presentation that created "only new universes". That was wrong. Now we're potentially getting a character who will deconfirm the "ATs deconfirm" rule AND the "Spirits deconfirm" rule in one fell swoop.

Fact is, people want to make rules to narrow down their options. Some people may even use these rules to convince themselves their favorites are more likely. People are free to believe whatever they want, but ultimately, they have no proof to support their claim other than a pattern that could be broken by the next reveal trailer.
Yeah, the best we can do is try to interpret the information we have while also keeping things flexible enough to alter our expectations when new information presents itself. Depending on what happens with DLC Fighter #6, we may end up in a situation where spirits, Mii costumes, and/or Assist Trophies are confirmed to still be eligible, which would open things up even more.

It'd probably also lead to speculation being as laser focused on redemptions as it was on third party star power for most of the past year, but that's neither here nor there...

Regardless of what happens, though, this is a net gain for anyone supporting any Gen 8 character. Unless they throw a complete curveball at us and have the character be an OC from a newly announced sequel (who would then get into Smash months before their game releases anywhere, no less), it means games that already have content in Ultimate can still get newcomers.
 
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LukeRNG

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Do you think a gen 8 pokemon is likely to be announced in June after we get the Arms character?
Or who else could they announce?

And regarding current rumors, there's a chance they could focus on Mario in June.
 
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Perkilator

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Do you think a gen 8 pokemon is likely to be announced in June after we get the Arms character?
Or who else could they announce?

And regarding current rumors, there's a chance they could focus on Mario in June.
I think they might announce a bigger name in June, as that was when E3 was supposed to happen. plz be cash banooca
 
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Do you think a gen 8 pokemon is likely to be announced in June after we get the Arms character?
Or who else could they announce?

And regarding current rumors, there's a chance they could focus on Mario in June.
I’m not sure. I definitely think a gen 8 mon is coming, but I could see it being more of a September announcement.

edit: then again, the dlc is releasing in June. Could be a good tie-in.
 
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LukeRNG

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What other 1st party characters are contenders for us?
I'm having a hard time thinking of others outside of Rex & Pyra, Waddle Dee, a BotW character, perhaps an assist trophy (and if the mario rumors are true, then Paper Mario or another mario character).
 
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Cosmic77

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If we're talking about first-party characters who would be added due to relevancy or promotional reasons, then start with BotW and think of every Switch game that came after. Personally, I think BotW, XC2, and SwSh are the only ones worth serious consideration, but I suppose you could make a case for a few others.

As for when the Gen 8 character would be revealed, I have no clue. I'd advise not to pay too much attention to release dates though. Nintendo could've asked Sakurai to make Byleth after Joker rather than Hero so the release date would line up perfectly with the game. They didn't do that. Likewise, the Gen 8 Pokemon could be revealed in June or even saved for last. Anything could happen.
 
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fogbadge

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Do you think a gen 8 pokemon is likely to be announced in June after we get the Arms character?
Or who else could they announce?

And regarding current rumors, there's a chance they could focus on Mario in June.
i would have a gen 8 pokemon would be later in the pass

If we're talking about first-party characters who would be added due to relevancy or promotional reasons, then start with BotW and think of every Switch game that came after. Personally, I think BotW, XC2, and SwSh are the only ones worth serious consideration, but I suppose you could make a case for a few others.
when has a character ever been added for promotional reasons?
 
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Staarih

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What Pokémon usually has going for it are its generations which usually last for like three, four years. As such, at any point from now on until, like, a few years from now would still be Gen 8 and Smash could capitalize on that. It helps, of course, that SwSh are still supported with DLC.

Not that timing or promotion is necessarily a thing, we’re getting an ARMS character after all, a game which everyone thought was dead.
 
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fogbadge

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:ultroy: in Melee and :ultcorrin: in Smash 4, to my memory. You could argue :ulthero: to promote DQXIS, but that game was a port of the game from a year back.
there was never any proof that any of them was promo reasons, corrin was supposedly just cause they had all been playing fates, which is they most believable reason ive ever heard, and roys was just roster padding, the hero was just them having as many as possible im fairly certain he was the default purely cause he was the most recent
 

Delzethin

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Well damn, Smashboards is down again. And also orange, apparently.

Do you think a gen 8 pokemon is likely to be announced in June after we get the Arms character?
Or who else could they announce?
I do not think a Pokémon newcomer will be next. Considering the slower pace of this season means there'll probably only be one reveal in the would've-been-E3 Direct, it'll probably be something bigger or flashier. Likely a guest fighter. I'm leaning toward #8, the one after next, being the most likely spot for a SwSh newcomer to show up.

Though hardly anyone expected them to open up the second Pass this way, so who knows?

when has a character ever been added for promotional reasons?
We haven't had a clear-cut case of it, believe it or not. Roy, Corrin, and now Byleth have had it stamped onto them, but it's mostly from people deciding they must've been promotional picks and working backward to "prove" it. Roy got a chance because the Melee team doubled back mid-development to look for clone characters and he was going to be relevant at the right time (and then his game got delayed to come out after Melee's launch date instead of before), and Corrin and Byleth were in the right place at the right time when Sakurai wanted their batches of DLC to have a deliberately recent newcomer.

According to an article he penned shortly after Byleth's reveal, it was because he thinks having a very new character in a newcomer group made of mostly older ones makes the group as a whole more interesting!
 
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Cosmic77

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They've never explicitly said which characters were intended to be promotional, and they probably never will.

Regardless, even though we can't prove anything, there are several characters who have had very convenient and suspicious timing. Bayonetta having files in the game as early as a week or two after the ballot began is fishy, especially when you consider how Nintendo in recent years had shown interest in funding her games so they'd be exclusives.

Then there's Byleth, who was said to have been chosen by Nintendo. If Sakurai feels the need to lower people's expectations and calm the atmosphere right before the reveal in the Byleth presentation, then either Nintendo forced him to add a character he didn't think would be well-received, or he lied and chose the character himself despite knowing the common complaints of too many FE characters. I'll take his word and assume the former, and if that's the case, what reason would Nintendo have other than promotion to push for Byleth when Sakurai knew it would be very controversial?

Again, we'll probably never have solid evidence, but I think most people can agree that Nintendo steps in from time to time to cash in on Smash's ability to advertise.

According to an article he penned shortly after Byleth's reveal, it was because he thinks having a very new character in a newcomer group made of mostly older ones makes the group as a whole more interesting!
I never thought that explanation made much sense considering how the first and second characters in the pass were also very new and hardly qualified as old. Joker is from a newer game no matter how you slice it, and Hero was promoted as a DQXI rep despite having three alts from older games. You could say that he was talking about the age of the franchise and not the characters, but even then it doesn't make sense because FE is old as well.
 

fogbadge

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We haven't had a clear-cut case of it, believe it or not. Roy, Corrin, and now Byleth have had it stamped onto them, but it's mostly from people deciding they must've been promotional picks and working backward to "prove" it. Roy got a chance because the Melee team doubled back mid-development to look for clone characters and he was going to be relevant at the right time (and then his game got delayed to come out after Melee's launch date instead of before), and Corrin and Byleth were in the right place at the right time when Sakurai wanted their batches of DLC to have a deliberately recent newcomer.

According to an article he penned shortly after Byleth's reveal, it was because he thinks having a very new character in a newcomer group made of mostly older ones makes the group as a whole more interesting!
youll see my answers in the post above yours
 

LukeRNG

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Its hard to guess what they'll do. I never expected Arms to get it's chance this late unless they did something to the franchise.
But we still have to wait a while to even get a decent idea of this dlc wave.



woah!
 
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fogbadge

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Its hard to guess what they'll do. I never expected Arms to get it's chance this late unless they did something to the franchise.
But we still have to wait a while to even get a decent idea of this dlc wave.



woah!
well arms actually did pretty well in terms of sales so taking that into account maybe it makes sense
 

Cosmic77

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well arms actually did pretty well in terms of sales so taking that into account maybe it makes sense
I think he meant he didn't expect them to bother promoting it three years later unless there was a sequel coming out soon. Even if it did well, it's strange for it to get a character this late. Maybe they have more planned for the franchise?
 

fogbadge

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I think he meant he didn't expect them to bother promoting it three years later unless there was a sequel coming out soon. Even if it did well, it's strange for it to get a character this late. Maybe they have more planned for the franchise?
yeah but if it did well why would it be strange? they considered putting in a character before and weve been told relevancy doesnt matter, so why is it strange?
 

LukeRNG

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yeah but if it did well why would it be strange? they considered putting in a character before and weve been told relevancy doesnt matter, so why is it strange?
It's the fact that it sort of fell into obscurity after launch. No one was talking or thinking about arms for a while before this 2nd chance they're giving to the game.
 

Cosmic77

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How likely is a Mystery Dungeon character at this point in time?
Here's what I said in the main speculation thread.

Mystery Dungeon could get a rep, but Smash has a horrible track record with representing spin-offs on the roster, and Pokemon is one of the worst franchises when it comes to representing spin-offs period.

Unless we count Yoshi and Wario (who let's be honest, are in Smash because of Super Mario, not their respective franchises), the only real spin-off character repping a spin-off franchise is Dr. Mario, and even then he's just a last-minute clone who isn't even separated from the other Mario characters despite having practically nothing to do with any of the main series games.

It'd be easier to picture if Mystery Dungeon had content in Smash after three different games since its debut, but it's basically been nonexistent.
 

LukeRNG

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Here's what I said in the main speculation thread.
I didn't even notice how bad the spin-off representation has been:

Other than Mario, Zelda has 0 representation from spin-offs; & the only thing we've got from pokemon is: 2 trophies from snap in melee and a detective pikachu spirit.

Wonder what's up with that?

And hey, just noticed this was posted yesterday:
 
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fogbadge

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It's the fact that it sort of fell into obscurity after launch. No one was talking or thinking about arms for a while before this 2nd chance they're giving to the game.
nintendo were keeping it alive with their tournaments and id would think the relevancy thing would apply to anything "obscure"

How likely is a Mystery Dungeon character at this point in time?
id say nae chance
 

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So I've been giving this some thought , and what if Zacian and Zamazenta are basically included as the same character, but you can switch from a more offensive mode (Zacian) to a more defensive mode (Zamazenta)? I haven't played much of Pokémon Sword, but isn't this sort of canon? Or are they two different Pokémon entirely?
 

fogbadge

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So I've been giving this some thought , and what if Zacian and Zamazenta are basically included as the same character, but you can switch from a more offensive mode (Zacian) to a more defensive mode (Zamazenta)? I haven't played much of Pokémon Sword, but isn't this sort of canon? Or are they two different Pokémon entirely?
theyre two completely different pokemon, switching between them would be more akin to the pokmeon trainer
 

Diddy Kong

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theyre two completely different pokemon, switching between them would be more akin to the pokmeon trainer
Then who is Doge you encounter in the one tutorial foggy forest where you go resque the Wooloo who tackled the gate? I was sure this was the base Pokémon that made either Zacian or Zamazenta before getting their sword or shield.
 

Cosmic77

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Then who is Doge you encounter in the one tutorial foggy forest where you go resque the Wooloo who tackled the gate? I was sure this was the base Pokémon that made either Zacian or Zamazenta before getting their sword or shield.
There's never been anything that indicated the two are or have ever been the same Pokemon.

What you're thinking of is their "Hero of Many Battles" form, which is essentially a base form that lacks their trademark powers. Once you find their sword or shield, Zacian or Zamazenta respectively will be able to transform into the versions we see on the boxart. In this form, their attack or defense (depending on which Pokemon you have) will rise dramatically. The transformation isn't permanent though, and they can switch between forms at will.

They could implement transformation into their moveset, but I don't know how they'll be able to do it without it being a carbon copy of Joker's shtick.
 

fogbadge

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Then who is Doge you encounter in the one tutorial foggy forest where you go resque the Wooloo who tackled the gate? I was sure this was the base Pokémon that made either Zacian or Zamazenta before getting their sword or shield.
which ever one is on the cover of the version you have
 

Cosmic77

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Small update on that upcoming episode of the anime that has Ash hatching an egg. The official title has been revealed, and it's "Convey the Wave Guidance! Satoshi and the Mysterious Egg!!"

So if the title is any indication, it's probably Riolu. Sobble and Grookey are likely still MIA 5 months into this anime. Our other two choices for who was in the egg were Munchlax and Tyrogue, but I doubt many people are expecting them.
 
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LukeRNG

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Small update on that upcoming episode of the anime that has Ash hatching an egg. The official title has been revealed, and it's "Convey the Wave Guidance! Satoshi and the Mysterious Egg!!"

So if the title is any indication, it's probably Riolu. Sobble and Grookey are likely still MIA 5 months into this anime. Our other two choices for who was in the egg were Munchlax and Tyrogue, but I doubt many people are expecting them.
I recall that Wave Guidance or so was either an ability or move that's very iconic to the Riolu/Lucario family. Not sure which one and if it's true.
 
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Delzethin

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Here's a random piece of merchandise:


I'm half disappointed they didn't get tongue-in-cheek about it and add "World's Best Hero" on the side or something.
 
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