The Jiggz Match-Up Thread

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Falcos Fair is god awful beyond belief. our Dair will go through Nair and Uair from Falco because the Uair shouldn't ever come out and if your above them then nair shouldn't go through your dair. Ever. EVER. Uair is so bad. Falcos only aerials ever used are Nair, Bair and Dair. Most of the time they have to RAR a back air forwards, or Dair forwards because it's not worth the suicide that will come if you do a stupid aerial. Pound ***** through bair if spaced correctly. I'll upload my matches later this week. I play with a pro status falco with jigglypuff and we went to round 5.

 

[-LzR-]

If your only used aerials are nair, bair and dair then your char doesn't have bad airgame. Falco has incredible bair, probably the best spike overall and nair gives incredible pressure.

 

[Noobicidal]

I'll look through last month's posts and create a suitable write up. As for now, throw out ideas for a new discussion: It's been a while.

 

[EraOfGames]

How about Donkey Kong, since we were discussing him anyways.

Though I'd prefer to do all the low tiers after/next, since Jigglypuff is actually viable in low tier tournaments.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

We should discuss Yoshi.

 

[T-block]

DK sounds like a good idea.

Am I the only one who thinks maybe we should focus a little more on low tiers?

 

[Noobicidal]

DK sounds like a good idea.

Am I the only one who thinks maybe we should focus a little more on low tiers?

I've pretty much felt that way since the beginning. Usually, the high/top tier discussions die due to them being previously discussed to death. It's not so much as "Alright guys, this match up sucks: What can we do about it?" as it is "lol puff loses to x".

DK will be next, but I do ask that you guys give me a day or so to get re-acclimated to SWF.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I just wanted to point out that DK's B-air is easy crouch bait. And that his anti-air really sucks outside of that.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

DK's not low tier now is he????
and his tilts and back airs are disgustingly broken in regards of spacing.

 

[-LzR-]

Jigglypuff vs DK is 80-20 if you ask me.

All of his tilts outrange, outdamage, outprioritize and outpace us. If we were ever to attack him, he can shield it and have a guaranteed OoS move. We can't do anything.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jigglypuff vs DK is 80-20 if you ask me.

All of his tilts outrange, outdamage, outprioritize and outpace us. If we were ever to attack him, he can shield it and have a guaranteed OoS move. We can't do anything.

It depends on which way he's facing. If he's facing backwards, just D-tilt. If you jump and airdodge towards him, and then buffer shield, his B-air will never hit you since your landing frames will duck under it, and you will basically autopowershield his B-air assuming it's active frames are out.

If he's facing forward, he still only has a specific range at which he can hit you at with his F-tilt, and his F-tilt isn't exactly safe on whiff. And then of course his shield sucks. He's slightly weak to grab pressure too since his spotdodge is slow.

I think you're overly pessimistic about this matchup and are overlooking options that are fundamentally really good against DK. Plus actually KOing DK should not be difficult as long as you're patient with KO percents. The key thing is you need to get him over 100% reliably, which is the range at which his edge options become garbage and easy to consistently punish on reaction.

I'm not going to argue a ratio besides that this is clearly not an 80/20 in DK's favor.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

We can attempt to suicide rest and roll spam. Or aim pound so the ending lag will hit him. Otherwise, we get shield grabbed and wrecked every single life. Dacus to spam any aerials? but DK shouldn't be throwing those out unless he's spamming back air.

my vote is 70/30

 

[A2ZOMG]

Since when does DK get to spam B-air when you can either crouch bait it or basically autopowershield it by fastfall airdodging? Crossover fastfall airdodge is reeeeeealy good against DK especially if he's foolish enough to think his shield is actually worth anything in this matchup.

I'm sorry, just it doesn't make sense to me how you're supposed to spam anything against Jiggs. Plus the part about getting shieldgrabbed? That's bull when you have aerials that are safe on powershield. No character has any business attempting a sliding shieldgrab approach against Jiggs.

Getting killed early by random stuff sucks, and long range tilts with good startup are kinda gay to deal with, but seriously, does DK really have anything else in this matchup? Honestly I think most of you just generally don't know how to approach this matchup. There's a lot of really simple things that DK has a hard time dealing with besides the obvious juggle and edgeguard him. As one of the most mobile characters in the game, it is especially to your advantage to know how to exploit those things.

 

[#HBC | J]

hiya Jiggly's ;D

The Lucas boards are discussing you and we would like your input!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8240749#post8240749

thank you in advanced!

 

[Kaptain]

I just recently moved to the puff boards so I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but I have some possible input.

I hate to say it but I feel the MK match-up has recently increased in his favor. I recently attended Seige where I had the pleasure of playing against Seibrik and his Metaknight. I had found a trick where all he has to do is grab release into shuttle loop. Its a guaranteed kill every time. At least, for the times I played him. So once he gets you at about 80% or so, all he has to do is grab you.

I hate it but its true...

 

[ItoI6]

I found that out on my own two weeks ago, but its not really that bad because he cant force an air release.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

2nd best jigglypuff. <--- this guy.

 

[Mr. Jiggles]

nah dude, that's me. the new comer.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

The new corner:?!
Sounds like i'ze gots some competition.

 

[DARKDRAGONHIEI]

i like playing as Jigglypuff, very fun, but WOW a 50-50 of Jiggs VS falco. any one have a video i can watch to confirm this. I would really like to see it!!!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

i like playing as Jigglypuff, very fun, but WOW a 50-50 of Jiggs VS falco. any one have a video i can watch to confirm this. I would really like to see it!!!

I hazx video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0E6U9U6Zps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSdZu8ZHRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPs7zaHeOOs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C9Uf95Ml_o

 

[DARKDRAGONHIEI]

awesome nice Jiggs Mink! were those you'r wii hack??? you got some wierd stuff in there, but that just made the battle that much more epic XD

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

awesome nice Jiggs Mink! were those you'r wii hack??? you got some wierd stuff in there, but that just made the battle that much more epic XD

Haha yeah those are my hacks. You can see alot more of them on my other vids. Thanks for the compliment on my jiggz man. Incase you didn't notice my face is the icon for jiggz XD. I think it could be a more even fight for jigglypuff if you space better than i did. We can't really pivot grab very well, and our grab game is amazing. If we can get falco off the side of the map and make ONE good read it can lead to a kill.
But getting that one good read is dificult.

As my falco friend says
"Playing the Get Back To The Stage game with Falco sucks".
So jigglypuff enjoys NAiring => Fairing falcos phantasm. Or drill kicking.

 

[DARKDRAGONHIEI]

yeah, that was the first thing i noticed when i saw the vid XD. you gotta tell me how to do that. Oh, i also got the same cat eyed texture it looked really nice. Your jiggs was nice the only wierd thing i saw is that you didn't use pound too many time. I believe that to be one of her best moves, it goes through so much

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Im going to post my own matchup thread with information / multiple paragraphs about each character. The majority of these players on this board are not listed as Jigglys or nearly as ranked as i am. So i'm going to announce myself as the best jigglypuff on smashboards since Jigglymaster is nowhere to be found (MIA).

I've taken the best falco in florida down to an even match. And i think that alot of these are wrong. I'm going to follow DEHF's path and create an IMO thread. Though. I'm also going to post the URL here once i'm done.

I'm not saying this because i think i'm the ****. I'm saying this because alot of these matchups dont have proper visual imagery and video. Theres reasoning.

EDIT:
I'm also using my jigglypuff against all the characters i can with the best players in the area involving the following:
Snake. Diddy. G&W. Pikachu. Marth. Toon Link. Wolf. Metaknight. Ike. Lucas. Ness. Olimar. Samus. Charizard. Cap'n Falcon. Wario. Mario. Luigi. Yoshi. Peach. DK. ROB. Fox. Squirtle. Sonic.

IF anyone is in the area and can bring a good main that i haven't covered please do.
I'm starting my own Youtube just for these videos.


--Mink.

 

[-LzR-]

We still need to change the MK ratio, it's embarrasing...

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

It's not a 30/70. I'm thinking 40 or 35. our shields are mad good. obv his aerial game is ridiculous. But i'll do more research and get back. alot is dependent on knowing the matchup.
For example our bair can probably outrange Fair from MK. so can pound. pound > mk's bair. However Uair and Dair is a hard vounter. The only thing i can think of being good in this matchup in SH'ed Fair's and Bairs. we can't be on the groudn near him due to Dmash. Maybe rising pound as a counter to Uair and Dair.

I'll research and get back to you. I wanna make a big addition to the jigglypuff boards.

 

[-LzR-]

Bair can beat MK's fair? You gotta be kidding me right? Also, MK doesn't use bair and pound is slow so MK can beat it. Also, MK is kinda like Wario MU. Stronger, Faster, Heavier, more range, priority and everything and much better ground game. So gg.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Bair can beat MK's fair? You gotta be kidding me right? Also, MK doesn't use bair and pound is slow so MK can beat it. Also, MK is kinda like Wario MU. Stronger, Faster, Heavier, more range, priority and everything and much better ground game. So gg.

If you go in there gung-ho with Bair and think it's going to go through Fair then you're stupid. Priority is nothing more than spacing. Fair might not be a slow aerial but compared to meta knights other aerials i think Fair is the easiest to space. Have you been jigglypuff stuck above metaknight? Prob one of the worst things to happen to you.

Just spacing and bair because fair has too much ending lag and you can get grabbed easily. With either a dash grab or shield grab if you dont space it correctly. and dacus for short hops. Just don't get to readable. Play nasty grab game. It's not an easy match but it's winnable. You just need to know exactly what he's doing and try to counter it. I don't think it's smart to think your aerials are better. But out of your aerials Bair and pound are the two with the highest proiorty. and pound lags which means you can begin it at a far distance knowing how MK is going to approach you.

 

[-LzR-]

That is my point exactly. What you said didn't sound like even at all.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I didn't say it was even. Obviously MK has advantage. If Jigglypuff was even with MK that'd be stupid.
I'm saying it's not as bad at 30/70.

Nor do i think that G&W is 25.

But. Eh. It'll workout. If you guys feel like discussing a character you should discuss a low tier since thats where most jiggz are. specifically yoshi. Most characters in general don't know the yoshi matchup.


--

Okay. MK's over. No one uses Jiggly against MK. Pick a low tier PLOX since no one ever would counter someone in the top 9 characters with jiggly.

Low. Tiers.
PLOX

--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_I88tIEZ24 ----------- WIN AGAINST MK.
This is going to loook like a triple post. Regardless. I'm uploading my videos related to my new matchup thread. Most move-exchanges and thought processes put into my new matchup thread will be coming from a great majority of not only matchup knowledge but these videos.

Subscribe please, check outsome of my vids. I've got some combos.
If not, they're still good matches.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jigglymink52290

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3bph3zUM4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYDCs0xIG9I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Iyu6nzdU9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0E6U9U6Zps

 

[T-block]

I'll merge them for you - please try to edit next time.

I'm not sure if Noob is still interested in continuing these discussions?

I'll watch your vids in a bit... looking forward to them ;D

 

[hichez50]

Mink great punishes.
I think the GAW match up is really that bad. It would be silly to change it. The MK matchup is probably right maybe 35-65 based on stage selection.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I'll merge them for you - please try to edit next time.

I'm not sure if Noob is still interested in continuing these discussions?

I'll watch your vids in a bit... looking forward to them ;D

Thanks for checking them out haha. And merging them. I didn't feel like putting all the extra effort in. But i'm glad you helped me out.

Mink great punishes.
I think the GAW match up is really that bad. It would be silly to change it. The MK matchup is probably right maybe 35-65 based on stage selection.

I was looking in retrospect and the GW one probably is correct. I retract my statement of that. Shield grabbing is hard, landing a kill is hard. and he has priority up the wazoo.
And i think MK stage selection def helps. I was getting quotes from Jigglymaster the other day who said Japes if Jiggz best stage and i've been playing it alot and i have to say Delphino, Japes, and Halberd are my favorite stages. Though. Against Meta DP and Hal are prob bad. lol

Thanks for the compliment on my punishes though. :D

 

[-LzR-]

I don't really see why the MK MU is even winnable, because it isn't, it Puff stood and chance, she would rise in the tierlist for that reason alone.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I don't really see why the MK MU is even winnable, because it isn't, it Puff stood and chance, she would rise in the tierlist for that reason alone.

Jigglypuffs placing in the tier list, IMO, is because she is undiscovered. For example. My other main besides is now, the 2 truly good ZSS players in the world are 1) Nick Riddle and 2) Snakeee. They are the highest tier of ZSS players. Now, they are the ones increasing the metagame for ZSS. About like, once every month a new discovered thing, like, Dsmash -> footstool will be discovered and increase our killing potential. This is how Zero suit has climbed the tier list, because of players such as nick riddle and snakee. Now. when you look at Diddys for example, you have Felix, Gnes, ADHD just to name a few. The metagame for this character is increasing as well because people play these characters alot. NOW. Look how many metaknights there are, including yourself LZR. Why do you play Meta? Because he is the best character?

My point is, how can the jigglypuff metagame increase if jigglypuff has no representation and no one is working on the metagame. Jigglypuff IS the most under represented character in brawl. Which means even the Ganon metagame is increasing past us. We need to either use jiggly in tournament more, or have more people play her in general to increase te metagame or every metaknight match will be unwinnable. Alot of matches will be unwinnable until people start foxusing on this character. But until that happens, we cannot because of the lack of people using her, and people using high tier characters.

My main point being this:
The metagame will not increase with jigglypuff because the ratio to higher tier characters to Jigglypuff characters is ridiculously not in our favor. If we plan on being able to win matches or discovering how and increasing jigglypuffs ability we need to start using her more. I think she has potential. But she will always look bad until WE make her better.

 

[-LzR-]

Good read. I mean MK not because he is da bess, but for other reasons.
I indeed agree that Jigglypuff's metagame is dead. No one plays her and that is her greatest strength at this point. No one knows the MU well. We don't even have a single pro player who develops us.

Unfortunately, I am from Finland, which is a small country. There are some tournaments held, but they are quite rare so I don't think I am willing to risk it and pick Jigglypuff. Maybe I could host lowtiers and then I would be able to develop her metagame a little.

There are 2 good Jigglypuff's here in Finland, me and Skinutski. Neither of us main her, but she is much more important to me than to him. When I Brawl, I ALWAYS play about the first 5 or so matches with Jigglypuff for warmup.

Oh and the point being, even if I was to be the best Jigglypuff in the world, no one would know about it since I live in such a faraway country.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Alot of stuff. Read above

Yeah the metagame is def going down.
The onlly real two reps i see for jiggly in North America is me and Jigglymaster.
Though, he's all the way on the other side of the US.
I'm trying to develop the game, like i said i'm doing my own matchup thread and i have alot of good videos i'm working on revewing.

We need to bring the puff back.

 

[-LzR-]

Well yeah, I just have MK and Robot in my way.

 

[Noobicidal]

We're currently re-discussing Wario. Feel free to contribute in the following thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292847