The Jet-Black General, Black Knight, Echoes into Smash

[LostEggs]

As long as he's not an assist trophy I think he's in, it would be just wrong for the last major franchise present to not get *A* vilian/rival. If he isn't in the base roster I'd think he'd absolutely be DLC. But I'd hope he's in the base roster, plus of all the FE protagonists only Black Knight is both popular and iconic enough to make it, plus his rivalry is iconic/very well known unlike what happens with most of the current protagonists that are in. He's just the most logical character for FE and Sakurai clearly had/has his eye on him (the Mii costume).

 

[Sigran101]

As long as he's not an assist trophy I think he's in, it would be just wrong for the last major franchise present to not get *A* vilian/rival. If he isn't in the base roster I'd think he'd absolutely be DLC. But I'd hope he's in the base roster, plus of all the FE protagonists only Black Knight is both popular and iconic enough to make it, plus his rivalry is iconic/very well known unlike what happens with most of the current protagonists that are in. He's just the most logical character for FE and Sakurai clearly had/has his eye on him (the Mii costume).

I completely agree. The only thing he could be beside a playable character is an assist trophy. The main thing that points to him being playable for me is the Mii costume. It seems like Sakurai is adding all the Mii costumes that work as characters. K Rool and Isabelle were probably the biggest ones, so they got in as unique. Lower priority Mii costume characters seem like they're only being made echos, which is why Ashley did not get the upgrade. She can't echo anyone. Based on this, I think BK is the front-runner for Mii costume upgrade as he is one of the very few made with new assets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only Mii costumes made with new assets were Ashley, K Rool, BK, and 3rd parties. Third parties obviously can't all get in and we're made with new assets at least partially because there weren't pre existing assets in the game, so they don't really count. K Rool was probably at the top of the ballot so he was high enough priority to be unique. Ashley was not able to be an echo or clone, so she was passed over. That just leaves BK, who isn't big enough to be unique, but could definitely be an echo or clone, and also gives us a much needed fire emblem villain. Sorry for all these walls of text. I have a problem with long windedness.

 

[LostEggs]

So Ken, Inceniroar, and Steve are likely new comers. But let's just assume Black Knight is in as a echo, who do you think are likely echoes to go with him assuming that RelaxAlex theory about 8 new reps is correct? And do you think we've got two more Smash directs? And when do you think they'll show off Black Knight and the other echoes? Personally I think we will see him during October, he hides his identity it's perfect. Plus I think there's plenty of content left for two Directs such as single player content, the Gallery, Online, and Spirits.

 

[LoopyBlack]

Hey guys, I'm new. I've been lurking this thread for a week or two and wanted to say I've enjoyed reading your guys' thoughts about the BK. Mostly because I'm in the same camp as the rest of you; I think he's fairly likely to appear as a new fighter.

The Castle Siege thing is interesting because that "leak" (or tease?) has grown on me. At first I thought it meant nothing, since that general in the background wasn't the Black Knight. He only resembled him; he was representing an FE trope on a stage with several other FE tropes. But in light of all of the other evidence and such, I think the change is significant. Aeon and Sigran basically nailed it; if the BK was playable, then Sakurai's team would change any other representation he may have had before. Why else would they make a random change to a Brawl stage? With that context, the image of Richter feels like a tease from Sakurai's team. That's the more conspiratorial part of me, though.

(I guess I'm just catching up on the conversation now) I tend to dismiss leaks that list the Black Knight as an echo fighter. I can foresee one unfortunate scenario where he's just an echo, but overall I'm adamant that he'll be a unique fighter, or a lite clone like Isabelle. We've gotten 6 echoes so far and they have all had several things in common. Most notably, they all have identical proportions to their base fighter. They're all the same height as their base fighter. For me, that's honestly enough evidence to say that the BK will not be an echo fighter. They would have to shrink him down to Ike's size and remember: Smash Ultimate's Ike is based on his PoR appearance. Having this menacing, mysterious knight shrunken down to 16 y.o. Ike's size would be incredibly lame.

We got a new render of Ike recently, which is meant to represent his RD appearance. I don't know about you guys but that render just looks off to me, especially when you put it next to the other Ike's. But that gives us a precedent where a taller character was shrunken down to fit different proportions. That's an unfortunate precedent but: I'm inclined to think that Sakurai's team would only do that for an alt costume, and not for a whole fighter. One last note before I cut myself off: Chrom being an echo of Roy doesn't mean that he was pushed aside to make room for an Ike echo. If anything, it's evidence that Sakurai didn't want to add one character who was an echo of Ike (Chrom) while adding another character who was a lite clone of Ike (BK).

 

[Machete]

I will say that Daisy is noticeably shorter than Peach. Lucina is also a smidge shorter than Marth, which is barely notable, but Peach is quite a bit taller than Daisy. So I'll argue against the point of an echo needing to be the same height, Black Knight can be half a head taller than Ike and not greatly affect his moveset nor the way he plays, which is the main "thing" with echo fighters.

And I mean, this is just trying to be realistic here, but... Black Knight has like zero chance of being playable except as an echo. Even with a standard roster I'd say his chances of being unique would be almost null, but with fewer newcomers than usual? There's absolutely no way. He's not among Nintendo's newest and most succesful mascots like Inkling and Isabelle. He's not the face of a classic Nintendo-related series like Simon. And he's not one of the most requested characters in Smash Bros history like Ridley and K.Rool. There's absolutely no way they'd give him such preferential treatment.

Echoes have consistently been popular characters that could easily be based off another fighter, even when it's not the ideal case. Lucina is meant to be emulating Marth, yes, but according to Tiki their fighting styles are different. Dark Samus... does it even need to be stated? Her Assist Trophy moveset was much more faithful than her echo incarnation. And Chrom is the result of a weird mix-mash. These characters are low priority, yet popular, so they're included in the game by sacrificing some of their aspects. This has been part of Smash's design philosophy since at least Ganondorf back in Melee.

If Black Knight is in the game, it's because Sakurai realized he was the most popular Fire Emblem villain and he could be echoed from Ike, the most popular Fire Emblem character. Him getting the Chrom/Dark Samus treatment of having a couple of different moves and more unique animations is about as good as he can reasonably expect, and I'd say that'd make the character justice anyways.

 

[Sigran101]

So Ken, Inceniroar, and Steve are likely new comers. But let's just assume Black Knight is in as a echo, who do you think are likely echoes to go with him assuming that RelaxAlex theory about 8 new reps is correct? And do you think we've got two more Smash directs? And when do you think they'll show off Black Knight and the other echoes? Personally I think we will see him during October, he hides his identity it's perfect. Plus I think there's plenty of content left for two Directs such as single player content, the Gallery, Online, and Spirits.

I think he'll be among the last batch of echos to minimize salt over two Fe newcomers by spreading them out. I do think there are two smash directs still to come, so I'd say he'd be a November reveal. My best guess for other echos is Impa, Medusa, and Ken. I think Shadow will be unique as much as I hate to say it. I'd say Dixie Kong, but as someone who personally doesn't care at all about the character, I think she'd be weird as just an echo. So yeah.

Hey guys, I'm new. I've been lurking this thread for a week or two and wanted to say I've enjoyed reading your guys' thoughts about the BK. Mostly because I'm in the same camp as the rest of you; I think he's fairly likely to appear as a new fighter.

The Castle Siege thing is interesting because that "leak" (or tease?) has grown on me. At first I thought it meant nothing, since that general in the background wasn't the Black Knight. He only resembled him; he was representing an FE trope on a stage with several other FE tropes. But in light of all of the other evidence and such, I think the change is significant. Aeon and Sigran basically nailed it; if the BK was playable, then Sakurai's team would change any other representation he may have had before. Why else would they make a random change to a Brawl stage? With that context, the image of Richter feels like a tease from Sakurai's team. That's the more conspiratorial part of me, though.

(I guess I'm just catching up on the conversation now) I tend to dismiss leaks that list the Black Knight as an echo fighter. I can foresee one unfortunate scenario where he's just an echo, but overall I'm adamant that he'll be a unique fighter, or a lite clone like Isabelle. We've gotten 6 echoes so far and they have all had several things in common. Most notably, they all have identical proportions to their base fighter. They're all the same height as their base fighter. For me, that's honestly enough evidence to say that the BK will not be an echo fighter. They would have to shrink him down to Ike's size and remember: Smash Ultimate's Ike is based on his PoR appearance. Having this menacing, mysterious knight shrunken down to 16 y.o. Ike's size would be incredibly lame.

We got a new render of Ike recently, which is meant to represent his RD appearance. I don't know about you guys but that render just looks off to me, especially when you put it next to the other Ike's. But that gives us a precedent where a taller character was shrunken down to fit different proportions. That's an unfortunate precedent but: I'm inclined to think that Sakurai's team would only do that for an alt costume, and not for a whole fighter. One last note before I cut myself off: Chrom being an echo of Roy doesn't mean that he was pushed aside to make room for an Ike echo. If anything, it's evidence that Sakurai didn't want to add one character who was an echo of Ike (Chrom) while adding another character who was a lite clone of Ike (BK).

Welcome aboard! Always nice to see new supporters. I'm glad our post were good reads I think you have a point that since it's PoR Ike it could be weird to see BK the same size. I never really thought about that. At the same time I don't think he has enough priority to be unique. I really hope he is though. Bottom line, at least no matter how he is implimented we won't have it worse than Dark Samus fans

 

[Icelerate]

Black Knight is my second most wanted character in Smash. The first being Micaiah. I've always liked Black Knight as a villain. He was a threatening foe for Ike and had his fair share of victories unlike most villains who are in general on the losing streak.

 

[LoopyBlack]

but Peach is quite a bit taller than Daisy

Daisy is shorter than Peach, you're right. I never noticed because I never stopped to really compare the two. I found this image where the two of them are standing upright. Daisy is shorter but not that much shorter. I also went and found comparisons for Roy/Chrom and Marth/Lucina. I would have assumed that they would all have identical heights, but once Daisy/Peach's difference was pointed out to me, I wanted to check Roy/Chrom.

The slight height difference between Daisy and Peach is certainly a point against BK being unique. Since we're just looking at images of previous echoes and trying to imagine how a BK echo would work, this is going to become pretty subjective. Personally, I think a BK echo would have to deviate further from Ike than Daisy did from Peach. The height difference would be greater, and BK's armor would make him appear bigger. He would need larger hurt boxes, I think. So if BK was an echo, he would deviate further from Ike than any previous echo has from their base fighter (assuming there isn't a greater deviation already that I'm not aware of)... It's entirely possible that that will happen. But I think it's unlikely that will happen given that one of the greatest deviations we've spotted so far is a slight height difference between two princesses that have identical proportions otherwise.

Whether or not BK is popular enough to get special treatment is sort of besides the point. Usually I wouldn't say that but in the context of this conversation, we're already assuming he's at least an echo. And I guess we're saying that based on the Castle Siege edit, the mii costume, and the trend toward villain fighters. I wouldn't argue that he has the same popularity as Chrom or Lucina. What I'm saying is basically: BK can't be an Ike echo due to his proportions being too different. So if he has made into the game, he's likely a unique fighter (or a light clone, which is what I'm betting on).

 

[User Name String]

I will say that Daisy is noticeably shorter than Peach. Lucina is also a smidge shorter than Marth, which is barely notable, but Peach is quite a bit taller than Daisy. So I'll argue against the point of an echo needing to be the same height, Black Knight can be half a head taller than Ike and not greatly affect his moveset nor the way he plays, which is the main "thing" with echo fighters.

And I mean, this is just trying to be realistic here, but... Black Knight has like zero chance of being playable except as an echo. Even with a standard roster I'd say his chances of being unique would be almost null, but with fewer newcomers than usual? There's absolutely no way. He's not among Nintendo's newest and most succesful mascots like Inkling and Isabelle. He's not the face of a classic Nintendo-related series like Simon. And he's not one of the most requested characters in Smash Bros history like Ridley and K.Rool. There's absolutely no way they'd give him such preferential treatment.

Echoes have consistently been popular characters that could easily be based off another fighter, even when it's not the ideal case. Lucina is meant to be emulating Marth, yes, but according to Tiki their fighting styles are different. Dark Samus... does it even need to be stated? Her Assist Trophy moveset was much more faithful than her echo incarnation. And Chrom is the result of a weird mix-mash. These characters are low priority, yet popular, so they're included in the game by sacrificing some of their aspects. This has been part of Smash's design philosophy since at least Ganondorf back in Melee.

If Black Knight is in the game, it's because Sakurai realized he was the most popular Fire Emblem villain and he could be echoed from Ike, the most popular Fire Emblem character. Him getting the Chrom/Dark Samus treatment of having a couple of different moves and more unique animations is about as good as he can reasonably expect, and I'd say that'd make the character justice anyways.

I doubt anyone here doesn't feel the same way about his chances. However, I think most everyone here just wants to root for a character they love regardless of relevancy or popularity, but I doubt you don't think that yourself all things considered.

 

[Sigran101]

Well Sakurai just said in an interview that they went overboard on reveals early and now they're slowing down. Imo Black Knight's chances plummeted with that. If there's only a couple more characters then I doubt he's in.

 

[LostEggs]

Tbh I do think RelaxAlex's theory may still hold true, Sakurai said they merely went overboard with reveals and that they'd slow down. I think 8 characters being left for two Directs is feasible.

 

[Icelerate]

(I guess I'm just catching up on the conversation now) I tend to dismiss leaks that list the Black Knight as an echo fighter. I can foresee one unfortunate scenario where he's just an echo, but overall I'm adamant that he'll be a unique fighter, or a lite clone like Isabelle. We've gotten 6 echoes so far and they have all had several things in common. Most notably, they all have identical proportions to their base fighter. They're all the same height as their base fighter. For me, that's honestly enough evidence to say that the BK will not be an echo fighter. They would have to shrink him down to Ike's size and remember: Smash Ultimate's Ike is based on his PoR appearance. Having this menacing, mysterious knight shrunken down to 16 y.o. Ike's size would be incredibly lame.

But Ridley and Bowser also got shrunk compared to their original sizes. Also, wouldn't there be another backlash if another non echo fighter was a sword wielding FE character? They already shrunk BK to Mii Fighter size making him look tiny compared to Ike so having BK echo that is slightly larger than Ike is fine by me.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Well Sakurai just said in an interview that they went overboard on reveals early and now they're slowing down. Imo Black Knight's chances plummeted with that. If there's only a couple more characters then I doubt he's in.

Yeah, his chances were already slim as is. I doubt most of us here are outright expecting him though, it's more about supporting a character who we love. Maybe if they do echoes as cheaper DLC we could try and make enough noise for him to at least be acknowledged, the Mii Costume from Smash 4 is at least an indication that they still have him in mind despite his lack of relevancy, so it's a good starting point.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well honestly the red knight can't be there for nothing. Chances are if he's not playable he's probably a boss then. I'll imagine they'll make him Dracula's height in that case.

 

[LoopyBlack]

That new Sakurai interview is bittersweet. He talked about how Isabelle had a "fundamentally different body-type", which I don't even agree with necessarily. Villager and Isabelle still have similar proportions/bodytypes, especially compared to the rest of the cast. But hey, if Isabelle's bodytype is different enough from Villager's to warrant an upgrade to light-clone, the same may true for BK.

But that bit about slowing down on newcomer reveals is depressing. We're supposed to know about the whole roster before launch, so it's not like there will be 3 or 4 characters leftover as surprises. If we're only getting a couple more reveals, then we're going to get characters like Incineroar, Isaac, Skull Kid etc and there probably won't be room for BK. His chances are lower now but I still think he has a decent shot. The castle siege thing is suspicious; I feel like he has to be in the game in some capacity. Maybe he's an assist trophy.

But Ridley and Bowser also got shrunk compared to their original sizes. Also, wouldn't there be another backlash if another non echo fighter was a sword wielding FE character? They already shrunk BK to Mii Fighter size making him look tiny compared to Ike so having BK echo that is slightly larger than Ike is fine by me.

I mean, the mii costumes look inherently goofy anyway. But yeah, I think Sakurai is conscious of people whining about stuff like FE characters, and having too many sword users. I suspect that kind of whining was partly responsible for "echo fighters". If BK becomes a misshapened Ike echo because people wouldn't stop complaining about there being a lot of FE characters, I will not be a happy camper

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Maybe he's an assist trophy.

If anything I'd see him being more likely a boss then an assist especially of how menacing he looks in his armor. Sure he maybe a human underneath but such a design probably would cause lot of fear.

 

[Sigran101]

Well honestly the red knight can't be there for nothing. Chances are if he's not playable he's probably a boss then. I'll imagine they'll make him Dracula's height in that case.

I hope not. I'd rather him be nothing at all than that. Just think how ridiculous it would look to have BK towering over Ridley. That would be seriously stupid.

 

[LostEggs]

https://youtu.be/aZrSiJssqPg in my opinion I still think Black Knight has a shot still. Based of this theory (assuming it's true) I think he'll be one of the last characters (echo fighter probably) to be shown. He's the only first party mii costume who's a vilian yet to show up in any meaningful capacity. But I guess only time will tell.

 

[Sigran101]

I really think Black Knight's only chance is base roster. If there's a dlc Fe character It'll be a three houses character.

 

[LostEggs]

I'm too lazy to edit my post but here are the original authors of the blog post theory, and their reasoning is incredibly sound. https://youtu.be/bKn0Rq74oKk

 

[LostEggs]

One last thing, I don't know why people keep misrepresenting what Sakurai said during the Famitsu interview. "We may have gone a little bit overboard up until now, so we're going to slow down our pace from here on out" this doesn't mean less quantity of characters, it means that reveals are gonna be more sparse or at the end in November with a huge info dump.

 

[Sigran101]

One last thing, I don't know why people keep misrepresenting what Sakurai said during the Famitsu interview. "We may have gone a little bit overboard up until now, so we're going to slow down our pace from here on out" this doesn't mean less quantity of characters, it means that reveals are gonna be more sparse or at the end in November with a huge info dump.

I've always been of the mindset that there are still a good amount of characters left and I don't believe the box theory, but I really think the implication is that the pace is slowing down because there isn't much left to reveal. I do understand your point though. By the way, you might want to edit those last two posts together. I wouldn't want you to get reported for double posting

 

[CrimsonFlash]

I really think Black Knight's only chance is base roster. If there's a dlc Fe character It'll be a three houses character.

this ignores the black knight's insane notoriety in heroes, he is the only character in the game that can be purchased directly and is still fairly relevant in arena meta, I could see him as a roy style newcomer if they went for DLC, then we would have a three houses character (hopefully not edelgard) as our ad character later down the line.

I really don't think 8 new character reveals is unreasonable, if you include 5-6 echo fighters/semi-clones you get plenty of filler to help make the roster all the larger.

and regarding height issues, if you decide to go for radiant dawn height differences, the black knight is about a head taller than ike (seems more like less but you get the point the difference is not too staggering), half a head would be fine if you can't make him too tall, I don't think it would be unreasonable to decrease the size at all and I think it wouldn't be too jarring.

 

[Arsenal234]

this ignores the black knight's insane notoriety in heroes, he is the only character in the game that can be purchased directly and is still fairly relevant in arena meta, I could see him as a roy style newcomer if they went for DLC, then we would have a three houses character (hopefully not edelgard) as our ad character later down the line.

I really don't think 8 new character reveals is unreasonable, if you include 5-6 echo fighters/semi-clones you get plenty of filler to help make the roster all the larger.

and regarding height issues, if you decide to go for radiant dawn height differences, the black knight is about a head taller than ike (seems more like less but you get the point the difference is not too staggering), half a head would be fine if you can't make him too tall, I don't think it would be unreasonable to decrease the size at all and I think it wouldn't be too jarring.

Why don't you want Edgelord as our ad character? She can use an axe so people won't cry about Fire Emblem reps (jk they will still cry). I'm just getting ready for the incoming Fire Emblem salt if BK does make it. I found this picture and it fits all to perfectly.

Spoiler: Black Knight Hate

Link for the picture : here

 

[SSB4 Roy Pharae]

this ignores the black knight's insane notoriety in heroes, he is the only character in the game that can be purchased directly and is still fairly relevant in arena meta, I could see him as a roy style newcomer if they went for DLC, then we would have a three houses character (hopefully not edelgard) as our ad character later down the line.

I really don't think 8 new character reveals is unreasonable, if you include 5-6 echo fighters/semi-clones you get plenty of filler to help make the roster all the larger.

and regarding height issues, if you decide to go for radiant dawn height differences, the black knight is about a head taller than ike (seems more like less but you get the point the difference is not too staggering), half a head would be fine if you can't make him too tall, I don't think it would be unreasonable to decrease the size at all and I think it wouldn't be too jarring.

Okay, now Edelgard is our only shot at getting a brand new Fire Emblem rep who uses a weapon type that isn't a sword, if Sakurai decides to rep Three Houses as DLC. And right now, the axe is the only one of the weapon triangle to not be represented yet (Dragon Fang makes a reference to the lance-type).

Yes, she can additionally use swords but her main fighting style is the axe so she'd be purely axe-based while adding in some magic to the mix (and potentially the first playable character in the roster to wield an axe at all times).

Back to Black Knight, I'm already getting prepared for the incoming FE complaints (especially GameFAQs) should he make it in as playable. To a lesser extent, expecting "Sonic & the Black Knight" references to be brought up.

 

[Luigifan18]

Okay, now Edelgard is our only shot at getting a brand new Fire Emblem rep who uses a weapon type that isn't a sword, if Sakurai decides to rep Three Houses as DLC. And right now, the axe is the only one of the weapon triangle to not be represented yet (Dragon Fang makes a reference to the lance-type).

Yes, she can additionally use swords but her main fighting style is the axe so she'd be purely axe-based while adding in some magic to the mix (and potentially the first playable character in the roster to wield an axe at all times).

Back to Black Knight, I'm already getting prepared for the incoming FE complaints (especially GameFAQs) should he make it in as playable. To a lesser extent, expecting "Sonic & the Black Knight" references to be brought up.

Hey, Sonic & The Black Knight is awesome. The final boss music in particular is totally kick-ass:

 

[LostEggs]

I can see the memes Sakurai would produce if the Black Knight is in. Sonic vs the Black Knight or comparing him to a Dark Nut for the three Links.

 

[LoopyBlack]

Black Knight: "You... inherited the fighting prowess of my master. Now I can finally surpass him."

Kirby, with Ike's copy ability: HOYAH

 

[Ultinarok]

Chrom is not an Ike echo because it makes no sense to make him an Ike echo. ALL echos we have seen have the same weight, speed, power, and range. Chrom shares none of this with Ike. Ike's weight, speed, power, and range are all attributed to him using a very heavy two handed sword. Chrom uses a one handed sword. It would make no sense for Chrom to be as powerful as Ike, as slow as Ike, as heavy as Ike, or have the same range as Ike. Chrom's Falchion is considerably shorter than Ike's Ragnel, and seeing as Lucina is using the exact same Falchion as Chrom there is no way Sakurai can justify changing its size.

Again every echo we have seen has had the same stats (Weight, Speed, Power, and Range) as the character they echo. Echo fighters are supposed to be easy additions, and no echo fighter we have seen has had those stats changed. Lucina only got her sword's attributes changed from Marth's, but they still share the same stats everywhere else with Marth being slightly taller. Chrom echoing Ike would be completely forced. I know Robin's Palutena guidance compares Chrom to Ike, but even Sakurai knew that making Chrom echo Ike would be pushing it. I saw Chrom as a Roy echo three miles away as it made much more sense. Roy is the middle ground between Marth and Ike, and fits Chrom well. I know people still think Roy and Marth are the same, but Roy has moves that Marth does not (about six or seven). In my opinion that more than justifies Roy getting his own echo.

Roy is more unique than he's given credit for. His specials all have the Wolf treatment, being derivatives of Marth's, but not copies. He has a unique Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, FSmash, Dash Attack, Up Smash, Down Aerial, and, although no one seems to realize this just because it uses the same FE HP bar graphic, Final Smash. He also has a different run animation, way faster speed both in the air and on the ground, with lower jumps and faster falling speed, as well as a different weight, on top of his reverse tipper and the drastically altered functionality of his kit. Yeah, Roy deserves an Echo. If Roy is just another Marth copy, than Toon Link is the same as Link.

 

[Fell God]

Just because they're slowing down on reveals doesn't mean there are only two or three fighters left, remember. This just means that we'll be getting news at an...even slower rate than before. I wholly believe we will get a Smash Bros direct in October, if there aren't many (or any) character reveals for that, then it just means they're holding out for November. Don't lose faith.

 

[LostEggs]

If there isn't a Smash Direct in October, it's gonna be a tedious and agonizing wait till November. Kinda hoping the Blog post theory is true, so it'd justify a Direct in October. Plus I think there's plenty of content left for two Directs. Plus getting anywhere from 6-8 reps would be nice, my question is if we do get two Smash Directs will the last one in November be like the 50 Fact extravaganza or something entirely different? What do you guys think?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'll say it again. If the direct isn't in October the best we could hope for is a Lucina/Robin style reveal trailer and as unlikely maybe something being revealed at Minecon this Saturday whether Steve being revealed or date for the next Smash Direct.

 

[Sigran101]

Black Knight: "You... inherited the fighting prowess of my master. Now I can finally surpass him."

Kirby, with Ike's copy ability: HOYAH

I was stressing out about the exam I'm about to take in like ten minutes, then this made me laugh so hard that I'm completely relaxed. If I ace this test now, I thank you my friend!

 

[LostEggs]

https://youtu.be/qK9_8AgjWPM well now, I think what Sakurai said here about Isabele bodes even better for Black Knight. He might not have to be an echo, he could be a pseudo echo like Isabele or Young Link. If Sakurai's logic here is anything to go by.

 

[Arsenal234]

Roy is more unique than he's given credit for. His specials all have the Wolf treatment, being derivatives of Marth's, but not copies. He has a unique Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, FSmash, Dash Attack, Up Smash, Down Aerial, and, although no one seems to realize this just because it uses the same FE HP bar graphic, Final Smash. He also has a different run animation, way faster speed both in the air and on the ground, with lower jumps and faster falling speed, as well as a different weight, on top of his reverse tipper and the drastically altered functionality of his kit. Yeah, Roy deserves an Echo. If Roy is just another Marth copy, than Toon Link is the same as Link.

I know exactly what you mean but, unfortunately many people choose to be ignorant. Chrom is the 4th Marth and not the 2nd Roy to many people. Also any character with a sword is a Marth echo to many people. I also came across this picture which sums up how people view sword characters in smash.

Spoiler: Marth's Echoes

SMH.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

I know exactly what you mean but, unfortunately many people choose to be ignorant. Chrom is the 4th Marth and not the 2nd Roy to many people. Also any character with a sword is a Marth echo to many people. I also came across this picture which sums up how people view sword characters in smash.

Spoiler: Marth's Echoes

View attachment 166947

SMH.

The sword argument is the dumbest thing in the world to me. If you hate swords so much blame our near universal cultural circle-jerk around swords. It's not Sakurai's fault that swords are the default weapon of countless main characters. If anything swords are practically underrepresented in comparison to the legion of sword carrying heroes in fiction and mythology.

 

[verysleepywolf]

Since I already support Black Shadow and Giygas as villain echoes, I think it would be relatively harmless to get in a Fire Emblem villain. Eventually I'd like to see all the major franchises get villains.

The sword argument is pathetic, you don't see it towards technology, magic, or hand to hand combat yet it applies just as well using their in-mind logic. I think the best route is to ignore it until it dies off.

 

[FalconFire93]

I’ll support him for Ultimate, he’s in my most wanted Echoes list and a great FE villain is needed.

 

[CrimsonFlash]

regarding a statement about winding down the reveals, the game hadn't even been properly revealed for 3 months and we already had 8 newcomer reveals in such a short time, I think there are plenty of ways to look at that, but I think it is sakurai saying that 5 new characters in one direct is slightly overboard, even if it is a shorter time between proper reveal and launch than usual, I can see where he is coming from, if you get through half of your roster before even 3 months has passed it can be a bit strange.

I think blog post theory still works, probably three next direct four the following and a surprise reveal a week or two before launch, we will get an info dump eventually, and said dump will include characters.

 

[Sigran101]

this ignores the black knight's insane notoriety in heroes, he is the only character in the game that can be purchased directly and is still fairly relevant in arena meta, I could see him as a roy style newcomer if they went for DLC, then we would have a three houses character (hopefully not edelgard) as our ad character later down the line.

I really don't think 8 new character reveals is unreasonable, if you include 5-6 echo fighters/semi-clones you get plenty of filler to help make the roster all the larger.

and regarding height issues, if you decide to go for radiant dawn height differences, the black knight is about a head taller than ike (seems more like less but you get the point the difference is not too staggering), half a head would be fine if you can't make him too tall, I don't think it would be unreasonable to decrease the size at all and I think it wouldn't be too jarring.

Wait, you can purchase Black Knight directly in Heroes? I had no idea that was a thing. Welp, time to go make my first micro transaction.

Edit: He's actually the only one? Because if that's true that's extremely significant.