The Jedi Council

[vVv Rapture]

Thanks everyone for the support and all of that. I was going to actually make a topic today in the PG, but I guess I can do it here. I just want to be prepared for it, so I'm refreshing myself on the topic (the Chinese Room Experiment).

Either way, thanks and congrats to everyone else who got in.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I will be on vacation starting tomorrow. I apologize for the hiatus.

 

[TheMike]

Wow, fresh meat! Is there a list somewhere of the current debaters?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

If there was, I would think the mods would have it.

 

[TheMike]

The group's leaders do. I was just wondering if we can see who they are. On topic: +1 for the man of many numbers if he hasn't been chosen yet.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Has anyone thought of reconsidering dragoon fighter?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Has anyone thought of reconsidering dragoon fighter?

Any significant comments / threads you would like to point out in particular?

I think it's great that I see chemistry (octet rule) and human anatomy (?) are being thrown around in Proving Ground threads: "The Existence" and "Murder: When". I think it's critical though that a true grasp of science is being used to make a valid point, rather than simply interjecting it as an, "Aha... look at that. I sourced a link so my point has objective proof! En garde!"

I wish that the debaters would have better integration and cohesion with the evidence they present in certain circumstances. I'm thumbing through some of the "online links" that are claimed as irrefutable proof and to be honest, some of them are sketchy home pages that don't look professional at all. My apologies if I offended any of the Proving Ground Debaters. As a reminder, you should submit a proposal to the Center Stage if you are interested in gaining access to the Debate Hall.

 

[GoldShadow]

Activity in the PG is outstripping activity in the DH, I say we fix that. I looked through some PG threads and came up with a simple list of people who are active or seem to have made substantive posts or both. I'm not saying all these people are ready, but I'm throwing names out there for discussion, and I'd like to see some of them admitted. What are your initial thoughts and impressions?

gm jack (appears to post well)
Dragoon Fighter (active, up-and-coming potential DH
BOB SAGET!
νοχ τωιz (hasn't posted as much recently, but looks like he'd be a great addition)
Kirbyoshi
1048576 (looks like he posts well and like you guys want him in)
Crazy Cloud (seems like he posts coherently here and here to give a couple examples)
spookyskeptic
abhishekh
professor mgw
Maniclysane

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Quick note: 1048576 was already sent a pm from Succumbio accepting him into the Debate Hall. Therefore his acceptance should be a non-contention and is dependent on when he decides to join. Unless time lapse results in Debate Hall acceptance being reneged, then he was already accepted along with Rapture, Dark Horse, and I.

gm jack: Aye. He doesn't post often and hasn't really drawn out a conversation. But he substantiates his opinions with relevant journal articles in conjunction with his points as indicated in "The Cost of Going Green" thread. Granted this is also true in the "Stem Cell Research" thread, but it was subverted as Dark Horse pointed out that Bob Jane T-Mart had already mentioned pluripotent cells as an alternative to embryonic stem cells. I personally felt that gm jack could have quoted Bob Jane T-Mart and commented a bit more while adding in his article as further reference. From reviewing these threads, I had this sort of impression that gm jack was a debater who kept to himself. This assumption was false, as he elaborated upon the initial argument that Dragoon Fighter was making for a non-absolute standard of physics regarding the Big Bang in the "Existence" and addressed this clarification to Paprika. I believe that the DH will benefit from gm jack.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Ah, the PG leeching issue.

GS, I would extend my recommendations to the following PGers:
gm jack
1048596
Maniclysane
vox twiz

And the following PGers I would hold out:
Kirbyoshi
Dragoon Fighter


As I have just returned home from an 18 day vacation, I haven't had enough time to look at posts from the others, so it would be unfair to judge them. I'll attempt to give a look at them as promptly as possible.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

gm jack (appears to post well)
Dragoon Fighter (active, up-and-coming potential DH
BOB SAGET!
νοχ τωιz (hasn't posted as much recently, but looks like he'd be a great addition)
Kirbyoshi
1048576 (looks like he posts well and like you guys want him in)
Crazy Cloud (seems like he posts coherently here and here to give a couple examples)
spookyskeptic
abhishekh
professor mgw
Maniclysane

Wait, so is this list like "the lower they are, the less they're coming into the DH"?

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Activity in the PG is outstripping activity in the DH, I say we fix that. I looked through some PG threads and came up with a simple list of people who are active or seem to have made substantive posts or both. I'm not saying all these people are ready, but I'm throwing names out there for discussion, and I'd like to see some of them admitted. What are your initial thoughts and impressions?

gm jack (appears to post well)
Dragoon Fighter (active, up-and-coming potential DH
BOB SAGET!
νοχ τωιz (hasn't posted as much recently, but looks like he'd be a great addition)
Kirbyoshi
1048576 (looks like he posts well and like you guys want him in)
Crazy Cloud (seems like he posts coherently here and here to give a couple examples)
spookyskeptic
abhishekh
professor mgw
Maniclysane

gmjack--Yes.
vox--Needs to come back and post.
104--Yes.
spooky--Needs to stop incessantly bumping threads and make some more solid ones before he's let in.
abhi--Maybe in a few weeks.
Manic--I could have sworn he was a DHer @ one point. Maybe it's just me.

Everyone else--Not up to snuff.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Yeah, Maniclysane used to be a debater. I think he was the person let in right before me. Then he got purged.

EDIT: I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but I feel like the DH is at least getting a little bit more active than it used to be. A lot of the most recent threads are nice and healthy with over 30 posts. I think recent additions such as TheMike and Dark Horse have done a good job raising activity. Dre has been very active recently as well. Call me an optimist, but I'm feelin' good about the future of the DH!

EDIT 2: Reviewed some of spookyskeptic's posts and I approve.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

spooky--Needs to stop incessantly bumping threads and make some more solid ones before he's let in.

-_- spooky's a girl. She's like the wife of a debater or something like that.

I'm surprised gm jack's not in. Dragoon has certainly improved. +1 for him.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Alright, I've searched through the PG a while now and have my final verdicts, with only brief reasoning because there are a whopping 11 of them.

YES
gm jack: Universally accepted by debaters, though he hasn't be quite so active recently.
vox twiz: Pretty much same deal as with gm jack.
1048596: Solid debater and has good support from DHers.
Maniclysane: Again, his activity has its ups and downs, but he's a former debater and has enough skill.
spookyskeptic: Good poster, has created several topics, and currently active.

NO
BOB SAGET!: Has improved vastly since his last PG tenure. Not quite there, but getting closer.
Dragoon fighter: Quickly improving. I like the progress I'm seeing. Once again, close but not yet.
Crazy Cloud: Seems to be a solid poster, but I've only seen 2 or 3 posts.
abhishekh: Seems to have ability, but hasn't been around long at all and hasn't ever wowed me.
professor mgw: Has been pretty active; not sure if he's quite ready though. Needs more time.
kirbyoshi: Hasn't been active recently, and when he was, it wan't too good.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

vox twiz needs to step up his activity level. In the whole time I was a PGer, I only saw him post once.

What's up with the wave of PG people? When I was starting as a PGer, the only people were me, Dragoon, Bob Saget, GM Jack, and Vox.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I don't know why there's a sudden burst but it's good. We want as many debaters as possible. As long as they have adequate skills, of course.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

You know, I'm actually against 104. He seems so...rude.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

You know, I'm actually against 104. He seems so...rude.

You make it sound as if you just realized this.

 

[TheMike]

I approve of gm jack and 1048596. Will read a bit more about the others mentioned.

 

[Sucumbio]

gm jack +1
Dragoon Fighter +1
BOB SAGET! +1
νοχ τωιz +1
Kirbyoshi +1
1048576 +1
Crazy Cloud +0
spookyskeptic +1
abhishekh +0
professor mgw +1
Maniclysane +1

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

You make it sound as if you just realized this.

I did. I just skimmed 104's posts and BAM! Epiphany.

gm jack +1
Dragoon Fighter +1
BOB SAGET! +0
νοχ τωιz +0
Kirbyoshi +0
1048576 +0
Crazy Cloud +0
spookyskeptic +1
abhishekh +0
professor mgw +0
Maniclysane +0

My final response.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Edit: gm jack and vox twiz.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Good boy, you decided on people.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Haven't spent too much time perusing the PG, so I'm not going to say too much. I think Bob Saget, GM Jack, 1048576 are pretty good.

 

[vVv Rapture]

I dunno why people keep advocating for the numbers guy. He was never good, imo, even when I was in the PG. Never made any solid points and most of his posts were either subjective or unsupported.

EDIT: Irony.

But the point still stands.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

How is that ironic?

And we have Bookworm: Definitely not ready. Needs to back up his points, needs to make sense, needs to be unbanned...

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

How is that ironic?

Rapture made a subjective claim without basis about 104 issuing subjective claims without basis.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Acrostic, you know me too well.

With that said, I wasn't planning on leaving my claim without any support, even though the point is still subjective. In my opinion, he is not a good fit for the DH.

Also with that said, address the following concerning why he gets a no vote from me:

1048576 taking a whole quote and making no insightful or at least fundamentally logical reply to it. Only to point out the fact that the one quoted said, "invisible unicorn" several times.

Page 5 of PG's "Suicide" thread. Numbers hypocritically calls out "my semantics bull****" and says I was nit-picky, but then does it himself following that statement. He then never actually addresses my point and doesn't even understand my correlations between the point I was making and the definition of the issue itself.

Finally, Page 3 of PG's "Killing Insects" thread. This was my first encounter with Numbers. After making an unreasonably...well, out there post, after a small back-and-forth, Numbers completely disregards one of my replies to make quite an idiotic claim (Post #42) that is completely shut down by the post they he had ignored.

So, again, no, I do not think he should be accepted. Why people think he should be is just bizarre.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Nah, I'm just ignorant.

And don't forget 104's insanely rude!

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Nah, I'm just ignorant. And don't forget 104's insanely rude!

Doesn't matter to me if it doesn't affect his debating skills. Don't really want to weigh in as I feel that he already deserves membership by past acceptance.

 

[Evil Eye]

Wholehearted yes to gm jack

Dragoon Fighter has improved quite a bit. I'm on the fence here, so I won't make a call yet.

BOB SAGET! is a lot better than I remember. ...a lot. But I think he needs some more time in the oven.

νοχ τωιz doesn't seem to be around. I'm hardly an activity Nazi, as you guys know, but his activity level is so low I wonder whether he would actually take the initiative and keep up with a topic he has engaged or opened. So my verdict is "more time, needs to post more".

Kirbyoshi needs to improve.

1048576 needs to stop strawmanning and henpecking. I'm seeing way too much of both, despite occasionally seeing posts I love from Numbers.

Crazy Cloud - Fence

spookyskeptic - Possibly my favorite of this wave. Definitely way the hell up there, at least, and definitely needs to be in here.

abhishekh - Fence

professor mgw - Fence

Maniclysane - Fence

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Doesn't matter to me if it doesn't affect his debating skills. Don't really want to weigh in as I feel that he already deserves membership by past acceptance.

It matters to me. You want practically an ADHD in the debate hall?

 

[Evil Eye]

I think you're mixing up your points there. ADHD and "insanely rude" are far from synonymous, or even particularly similar.

 

[GoldShadow]

Wait, so is this list like "the lower they are, the less they're coming into the DH"?

Just to be clear, the list was in no particular order.

 

[Sucumbio]

And we have Bookworm: Definitely not ready. Needs to back up his points, needs to make sense, needs to be unbanned...

not gonna happen, though.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

not gonna happen, though.

I approve of this post.

104--eh, make that a no now. Some posts I read of his last night weren't that hot.

 

[Evil Eye]

Just gonna say what I hope we're all thinking -- TheOriginalSmasher has a long way to go before he gets his pink. Yes? Please tell me I'm not the only one.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Just gonna say what I hope we're all thinking -- TheOriginalSmasher has a long way to go before he gets his pink. Yes? Please tell me I'm not the only one.

You're not the only one.

And yeah, I'm also starting to have my doubts about 104 as well. Now I'm kind of on the fence. But he's certainly not unskilled.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Just gonna say what I hope we're all thinking -- TheOriginalSmasher has a long way to go before he gets his pink. Yes? Please tell me I'm not the only one.

Professor mgw, abhis and TheOriginalSmasher share several post-opening qualities from what I observed in the "Exist" thread. In general there is a tendency to share their opinions on the matter without considering the previous comments that have already been written. It is disheartening to attempt to treat such comments with respect, when it appears that little to no respect has been given on previous points that have already been brought up.

It also seems like they don't quite grasp the difference between the Pool Room and the Debate Hall in the sense that they will voice their opinion, but won't add persuasion by incorporating logic or objective facts into the crux of their arguments. If anyone has or has not noticed, I don't really battle opinions unless I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I tend to be more interested in the facts and whether or not they are being properly used to illustrate the opinion they are trying to substantiate. I think that a lot of their opinions check-out, but I just wish that they went the extra mile and brought up real examples to add depth and common ground to the argument at hand.