The Jedi Council

[thegreatkazoo]

Speaking of people who haven't posted in while, Omnicron has possibly made one post since we let him in.

I kinda said that giving him a bid wouldn't result in anything that great...perhaps we should look to removing the inactives...

 

[KrazyGlue]

Yeah, I actually looked over his profile and he seems to have resigned himself to trolling (thankfully not here). He should probably at least get a warning.

 

[Evil Eye]

Purging is, frankly, not a primary priority of my DH administration. Sometimes, life attacks. Sometimes people get burned out on debating here because it's the same people and arguments every time, but come back later. (I recall Xsyven being one of us for quite some time, and he just made his first post in a few years, in the PG)

I'm not sure where I stand on purges. They probably won't be done away with altogether, but they're not going to be as frequent or strict. And I'm not going to hover over people playing activity police and poking them with a stick if they don't post for a few weeks. This isn't a mafia game.

 

[GoldShadow]

I don't see a need for purges either. We let people into the DH based on the merit of their argumentation, not how frequently they post here. While active members are always nice and preferable, there's no need to remove somebody just because they haven't posted in a while.

edit: On that note, there's no need for a "you must post thrice" rule as stated in this PG thread, right?

 

[KrazyGlue]

I suppose so. But I hope you realize this system will be abused often. True, some people may not post in the DH for a while for good reason. But others will simply gain the title and leave forever. I think purges on some level may be necessary, though they don't have to be common.

 

[Dre89]

The thing is though, there are already plenty of people who no longer post here but retain the title.

It'd be pointless tracking all of them down and removing the titles.

The title is supposed to show that you are capable of debating in the DH, not that you're a regular participant.

 

[KrazyGlue]

The thing is though, there are already plenty of people who no longer post here but retain the title.

It'd be pointless tracking all of them down and removing the titles.

It's a lot easier then you think. They've done many purges like these before. I don't know exactly how it works since I'm not a mod, but you don't have to "track each individual down".

The title is supposed to show that you are capable of debating in the DH, not that you're a regular participant.

The issue is when we change the system to be more lenient. For example, all someone has to do right now is make 3-5 good PG posts and they're in. Then they can leave and never come back. It gives the DH a weak reputation, like anyone can just waltz on in here.

I should know. Back when I was aspiring to be a Pokemon Researcher (now called Pokemon Master), you had to make 3 entries to the so-called strategy pokedex to get in. I worked hard to do so, and got accepted. Now the strategy pokedex is gone, and almost everybody who applies is let in, even if they're never in the Poke Center. It's almost like a slap in the face.

 

[blazedaces]

Krazyglue, no offense... but why should we care?

Who cares if someone gets a pink title?

-blazed

 

[KrazyGlue]

Eh, I can see how you would feel that way. I'm not trying to be egotistical or anything, but the title means nothing at that point. It would be like just letting everyone in the BRoom. There's nothing special left to it. Anyway, this is just my opinion; I can certainly understand why some people disagree with it. I hope I'm not sounding arrogant or anything, because I don't mean it that way.

To be fair, I thought about your point of view for a while, and I could think of some possible benefits of leaving people in the group:

- There's nothing stopping them from coming back someday and posting again!
- While it's kind of a slap-in-the-face to active debaters, it doesn't actually lower the quality of debate at all.

 

[Dre89]

But the reason why the BRooms aren't open to the general community is so that that discussion isn't slowed down by trolling/spam/less knowladgeable posters.

 

[KrazyGlue]

But the reason why the BRooms aren't open to the general community is so that that discussion isn't slowed down by trolling/spam/less knowladgeable posters.

Uh... the BRoom isn't what you think, lol. Trust me, I have a friend in real life who's in the BRoom, so I've seen it first hand. They don't really have many/any formal discussions there, if I recall correctly.

 

[Evil Eye]

KG, literally every one of your analogies and points is faulty.

Pokemon Researcher:

Your point is that it used to be difficult to obtain this title, but now they hand them out easily. This does not relate at all to people's activity; people obtain the title of Debater through the same means -- proving that they can debate intelligently through the Proving Grounds. There are no stipulations about activity, nor does this even relate to why people are given that title.


The BRoom

It would not be like letting everyone into the BRoom. If anything would be -- and it's still a poor analogy -- letting everyone into the Debate Hall would be similar, almost by default. Both being rooms with restricted posting and all.

As a matter of fact, it's entirely common for people to be let into the BRoom and then rarely post. Does this "cheapen the accomplishment"? Uh... no. After all, someone who posts regularly in the BRoom and someone who never posts in the BRoom were both let into it for the same reasons.


It gives the DH a weak reputation, like anyone can just waltz on in here.

Again I'm really not seeing how activity has any bearing on this. Anyone definitely can't "just waltz on in here". They all have to go through the process.


Ultimately your points come down to an argument of entitlement, and you think that people that aren't posting much/at all are not entitled to it. The fact of the matter is that purges were brought in as an intended activity incentive. What came of it? Well, a lot of people who had access to the Debate Hall don't have access to the Debate Hall anymore.

I don't think I ever actually saw a flurry of activity come in because of them, and even if one did, it would be activity for all the wrong reasons. I worried they might be counter-intuitive, and I think precedent has shown that they are.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I'll concede. In hindsight, I was thinking more along the lines of some of the people from a loooong time ago (who didn't need to do anything to get into the DH) who have already been purged. I do think the initial purge was necessary (I have no idea why you think it was counter-intuitive), but further purges may not be. Fair enough; I see where you're coming from.

 

[Sucumbio]

TheMike has made himself a bit more public despite his recent "IRL" activities, and would like to be considered for entrance. Here's some of his more recent posts:

My post in the "thoughs on knowledge" thread
My post in the "Gun Control Laws in the USA" thread
Edit: The "One, two and three national capitals" thread I created

Also in the PG as of late showing good potential we have Dark Horse, gm jack, and Dragoon Fighter

thoughts on these gents?

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Also in the PG as of late showing good potential we have Dark Horse, gm jack, and Dragoon Fighter

thoughts on these gents?

Dark Horse is decent, gm jack is pretty good, but Dragoon Fighter may need to improve a bit, before I really see him entering the DH.

 

[Lore]

Gm Jack is good, but Dark Horse and Dragoon need some more time to improve.

They mostly need to work on their grammar.

 

[Dre89]

Just let all of them in. It's not enough they're going to ruin the DH.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Just let all of them in. It's not enough they're going to ruin the DH.

Including Insane Carzy Guy? His grammar needs a lot little of work.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Including Insane Carzy Guy? His grammar needs a lot little of work.

I think he just meant the people Sucumbio mentioned.

 

[Sieguest]

Dark Horse is pretty good. He's not the most eloquent in getting his points across and not the most avid user of sources to back up some of his statements, but still looking pretty good in my opinion.

I definitely support TheMike being let in DH. He sparks interesting discussion and brings in a different take on some subjects.

/My one and a half cents

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

I think he just meant the people Sucumbio mentioned.

Oh... It's slightly hard to tell over the internet.

 

[KrazyGlue]

TheMike is definitely ready; I'll have to read up on the other two a bit more. I've looked at some of Dark Horse's posts and they seem alright.


EDIT: My final opinions:

Yes to TheMike
Yes to gm jack
No for now to Dragoon Fighter
On the fence about Dark Horse, so I'm abstaining from that one

 

[GoldShadow]

I'm cool with TheMike, don't know enough about the others, but clearly you guys support them. Any other thoughts? Dissent?

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

Haven't really seen much of The Mike, but I do think Dark Horse is pretty good, as well as gm jack.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Haven't really seen much of The Mike, but I do think Dark Horse is pretty good, as well as gm jack.

Yeah, that was my one concern with TheMike, but he certainly knows how to make a successful/active topic (as evidenced by the leviathan homosexuality thread) and brings some interesting perspectives and ideas, as Sucumbio previously noted.

gm jack, to me, has shown pretty good debating skills as well as some scientific knowledge, so he seems like a solid candidate to me. Also has a pretty consistent activity level.

Dark Horse certainly has some great activity, to be sure. He seems a bit prone to not understanding certain concepts and/or making mistakes, but he does seem willing to learn and will almost certainly improve over time. As Werekill noted there are some minor grammar things here or there but I can always understand what he's saying, and besides this is an internet forum so let's keep it in perspective here.

Dragoon fighter needs a bit more work on constructing arguments in my opinion. Also has some grammar issues that are worse than Dark Horse's, but again I'm not going to be the grammar police here. He has good activity though and seems willing to learn, so if he improves in the future he could be a good candidate. Just not quite ready, in my opinion.

 

[GoldShadow]

Alright, TheMike is in. Will have to look at the others soon as well and determine their fate.

 

[TheMike]

Thanks to everybody who supported me.

 

[Evil Eye]

I approve of all choices made so far. Dragoon needs to simmer a little more though, yeah. Definitely a future possibility though.

 

[TheMike]

Gm Jack is good but he lacks of activity, and I guess we don't want one more inactive member in here(better saying "not so active"). Both Dragoon Fighter and BOB SAGET! need improvement. Actually, I haven't seen many posts from the latter(he basically only posts in the gun control law topic). The only PGer I support for the moment is Dark Horse.

/my two cents.

 

[GoldShadow]

What do you guys think of νοχ τωιz? He hasn't posted in a few weeks, but I was looking through his posts and thought he could be a solid addition.

 

[Sucumbio]

I too thought he'd be a good addition but his activity fell off the map, so I'd say if he does come back he should be let in, but not until then, really...

Some up and coming hopefuls who may be ready soon:

Dragoon Fighter +0
Dark Horse +1
Acrostic +1
Kirbyoshi +0

Dark Horse seems ready, though he may need a good old fashioned showdown with one of you fine gentlemen. Dragoon Fighter is likewise ready but he himself feels he needs more time to improve, so I neither yay or nay at this point. Kirbyoshi is a bit new to the game and needs more time, but he's got some good points in a few topics. Acrostic is a fierce debater from the User Blogs who recently joined up in the PG, and could easily be let in now, though for fairness sake I understand if it seems too early. +1 to him at any rate.

 

[SuperBowser]

Yay for Acrostic and numbers dude.

Honestly, I think Acrostic should just go straight in ha.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Finally got some internet access while on vacation!

Yes to Acrostic. It's not about being fair. It's about having what it takes, and Acrostic has it.

I'm going to have to pass on Dragoon and kirbyoshi. I think most of you will agree here, but I'd be glad to elaborate if the need arises.

Dark Horse.... I'm torn, and here's why. Recent posts of his have often been not serious, very brief, and/or not well-informed. HOWEVER, he is very active and follows rules effectively. And those qualities, combined with decent debating skill and a will to improve, are excellent qualities to have in a debater. If someone either wants him in or wants him out, I'd like to see their points of view and why they think that. I've shared my thoughts, so I'd be happy to see someone comment on them and try to sway me.

 

[Dre89]

Yes to Acrostic, numbers guy, and KirbyYoshi.

Dark Horse should be let in simply because Bob Jane got let in, and none of us have a problem with Bob. They're similar in that they follow rules, have acceptable logic, but have both participated in debates where they were heavily un-informed. However, making that mistake once isn't enough for me to say no to them, they're good enough to be in the DH.

 

[Sucumbio]

+1 to 1048576
on the fence about vVv Rapture, I think I just need to read up more on him

 

[GoldShadow]

I say we let in a bunch of people, activity is dwindling!

 

[Sieguest]

Yay to a certain type of poem, what's going to happen when Jesus comes back, the pony clad in shadow, and the unknown telephone number.

Acrostic makes extremely well thought out posts and even in an area outside of his/her comfort zone has done extremely well. I mean really, the proof is in the posts.

Rapture has posted in a lot of the threads in the PG. He brings up good points and he really understands the gist of what the person he is responding to has said. Those are good qualities in a debater so yeah.

Dark Horse has really improved since first showing up in the PG. He is able to back up his statements more effectively and he's actively created topics that have sparked quite a lot of activity.

1048576 is very solid. He has a habit of jumping to conclusions, but like the others he is productive to the debate and brings his own unique to some topics from what I see.

 

[Sucumbio]

It is agreed then, Acrostic definitely, he's up to like, +5, numbers too, he's around +4 or so. I'll say yet to rapture, he seems on the ball. Dark Horse also. DH is the only one who's actually applied though, so we can let him now but the others will have to apply, I'll let them know.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Thanks to everyone who supported me.

On the other hand, gm jack's back from the dead, so should we consider him?

And yes i'm with the other choices.

 

[Sucumbio]

he needs to make a topic or two before I say he's ready.

3 down, numbers to go.