The H2YL Tier List - The Real Sh*t

[Solidix Snike]

Also, thanks for actually posting the tier list, as it can now be used as reference.

 

[Morrigan]

4: you double posted.

 

[Solidix Snike]

4: you double posted.

I'm sorry that my computer lags like crazy on this site.

 

[exidid]

Hey Chillin', even though I love your decision of putting Peach so high, why did you put Peach in High Tier? I only see her as a middle mid tier.

 

[Saki Zatoichi]

I'm surprised Kirby is in High.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Hey Chillin', even though I love your decision of putting Peach so high, why did you put Peach in High Tier? I only see her as a middle mid tier.

Have you seen Azen's Peach?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Have you seen Azen's Peach?

have you seen Azen's anyone!?!

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Well, if I sat here and responded to every single complaint that was posted about this tier list, it would probably take several years. That being said here's a general response to every single complaint in this thread.

Honestly, and I think this is what a lot of people fail to realize about this tier list, it is opinion. Just like all tier lists that aren't directly based on tourney results. And my opinion is influenced by the people I play and the people I watch play. In my personal experience, I haven't seen anything from Toon Link or Pikachu to warrant them being higher, for example. Of course, for some of you, you might use those characters or know someone who uses them extremely well, and so you think "wow, this guy is full of ****". Obviously not everyone's opinion is going to align, so this many complaints are to be expected with a tier list. The fact is no matter WHAT I posted for a tier list, there would be tons of complaints. But I can justify saying this tier list is mostly accurate with the following: My opinion is based on playing with the best region in the country, MD/VA. I regularly play with Azen, Chu, Forte, NEO, G-reg, etc, and with these various players I get experience fighting nearly every single character, if not literally all of them, and it's always at a very high level. If Azen uses Link or Yoshi, it's not going to be a pushover. But at the same time, despite how difficult those characters of his may be, they don't do nearly as well as his G&W, Marth, Lucario, or Peach, for example.

Basically people should just realize that yes, this is opinion. The things in the first post like "the most accurate tier list in the history of man" were mostly a joke, although again because I play with the most skilled players and in the best region, it actually is pretty accurate as far as opinions go. And like I said originally, the tier list gets kinda fuzzy as it gets lower, so I will admit that I already can look back at it and see flaws with some of the lower tiers. But that's okay, because those characters suck anyway.

Alright, that's much better. I linked here from GameFAQs and they said this was the "Smash Backroom" tier list so I was really confused. I understand this is your opinion and it's based on experience. It may be that you haven't faced many good players of characters such as Toon Link or Pikachu as you said, but just refuting it by saying "they just look good on paper" doesn't cut it. :\ It also doesn't certainly mean that you place them low because of it. Maybe you should've held back on posting your tier list before you did so. That's not to say that it isn't good; it is a good tier list. But maybe you should've said something like "I'm not sure about x and x character, input would be appreciated" because while you have many good positions on things, some warrant explanation. I'll take the time to ask you now why Pikachu and Toon Link in particular are so low, when they clearly play along the ranks of Kirby (as far as I've seen, read and heard).

EDIT: And please don't say things like "your opinions don't matter idiots" because while it may not detract from your credibility it really isn't nice.

 

[Turbo Ether]

have you seen Azen's anyone!?!

I heard he plays a decent Lucario.

 

[boss8]

lol lmao decent......****s amazing...

 

[Turbo Ether]

lol lmao decent......****s amazing...

Just being sarcastic.

 

[boss8]

word...........

 

[Dark.Pch]

excuse this post, wrong thread.........

 

[Divinokage]

Does anyone wanna team with me for this? I'm a good teams Partners And one of the best Peaches in N.Y so no bull**** from me.

Lone warrior? Peach is not a freaking warrior!!

 

[Silverflash-x]

What the hell are you talking about?

Tell my how this list is based off fact and not personal experience. Now, if it truely is merely an opinion, and not an actual, serious list, then I apologize for my misconception. But as far as I can tell, this list doesn't use tournament results or matchups in any sort of organized way.

 

[hova]

hey it's Canada Guy 1 !!!!!!

 

[Percon]

There are tons of Canada guys to go around

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Percon Mains snake.

 

[Percon]

Percon Mains snake.

****! I was hoping to keep that secret. What gave it away?

 

[thumbswayup]

I think Diddy should be moved up one tier due to how well he does against top tier characters like Snake, DDD, and Falco. His only real bad matchups are MK (whose isn't) ROB, and maybe Wario (have to check more into this). That's just my opinion anyway. I'm pretty sure he goes about even with G@W, but that's just speaking from personal experience.

 

[Solidix Snike]

Alright, that's much better. I linked here from GameFAQs and they said this was the "Smash Backroom" tier list so I was really confused. I understand this is your opinion and it's based on experience. It may be that you haven't faced many good players of characters such as Toon Link or Pikachu as you said, but just refuting it by saying "they just look good on paper" doesn't cut it. :\ It also doesn't certainly mean that you place them low because of it. Maybe you should've held back on posting your tier list before you did so. That's not to say that it isn't good; it is a good tier list. But maybe you should've said something like "I'm not sure about x and x character, input would be appreciated" because while you have many good positions on things, some warrant explanation. I'll take the time to ask you now why Pikachu and Toon Link in particular are so low, when they clearly play along the ranks of Kirby (as far as I've seen, read and heard).

EDIT: And please don't say things like "your opinions don't matter idiots" because while it may not detract from your credibility it really isn't nice.

Wow, some people can't read the title of the topic...

 

[Blistering Speed]

The reason I like this list is because it's different. In the brawl tier discussion topic, every serious list is virtually the same. I disagree with alot of the lower tiers (middle and under) but I know you haven't been concentrating on those so I'll not criticize.

 

[BoTastic!]

Have you seen Azen's Peach?

hmm i can say the same thing about Boss's Mario.. >_> yet Mario is low tier..

Player skill doesn't determin how good a character is. Its completely irrelevent

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

hmm i can say the same thing about Boss's Mario.. >_> yet Mario is low tier..

Player skill doesn't determin how good a character is. Its completely irrelevent

yeah... actually it should be working the OTHER way around if the only reason we're putting some charcters up there is because the worlds best smashers use them.... then this tier list is completely useless.

 

[Vicious699]

First: Cpt. falcon is way to low, he should be at about high tier (didnt u make a combo vid saying how he didnt suck?)

2nd: Pit should be alone in god tier and my pit is better than Chillins

and C: u threw up on my shirt. i want a new one
(dont take this post seriously or else)

 

[zhao_guang]

I have a harder time playing Meta Knights then I do playing Snakes. Its hard to deal with MKs IMO. I also don't think Snake counters MK, because I've tried to play MK with Snake, and I didn't do so well. Of course, it might've been me, but it just didn't seem like a proper counter

 

[Shadow Light Master]

Wow, some people can't read the title of the topic...

Good grief, forgive me. I just followed the link, read the post, and posted.

 

[clank123]

i disagree with the list nuff said

 

[hungrybox]

ATL South posts new threads for every tournament

ATL North re-posts on the same thread for every tournament

hm.

The tier list is (Insert opinion)

TR4Q - qft, if you catch my drift

so.

When's the next melee OOS?

Ohana is the only one i read about, but its pretty far off.

I wanna go to more major tournaments

FAST was good

TGMTSBCO was too much fun

anyone PM me with info?

 

[indianunit]

snake>mk

lucario>dk/kirby

This tier list is commendable but no where near perfect

 

[Mewt73]

Of course it's not perfect. Why is mario not top tier?
I feel as if people underestimate mario to the biggest extremes.
granted, he has faults.
I.E
Recover isn't great
Not good reach
his priority isn't to high on the scale

I've heard these plenty of times, but once you utilize mario with everything he's got, those don't become a problem.

His D-air I've noticed can usually cancel out most attacks if done first
He can get wicked combos with u-air and n-air since they pull off so fast with little to no lag
His cape has more range then people think, and it can basically stop anything and in the right position, get yourself an easy K.O
F.L.U.D.D is surprisingly amazing at gimping and you can totally fake someone out by charging it up, running close to the edge, waiting to use it, then fall off the edge and do a f-air for the spike
Obviously his fire, which can get kinda easy to spam, but sets up perfectly for doing a cape or basically anything else from it.
D-smash and U-smash get off quick and are quite powerful, and if connected with the fire part for f-smash,well, it can sometimes kill at like.. 75%

If I've missed anything, sorry. I haven't learned all there is to know about Mario yet.. But he's really REALLY good.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Of course it's not perfect. Why is mario not top tier?
I feel as if people underestimate mario to the biggest extremes.
granted, he has faults.
I.E
Recover isn't great
Not good reach
his priority isn't to high on the scale

I've heard these plenty of times, but once you utilize mario with everything he's got, those don't become a problem.

His D-air I've noticed can usually cancel out most attacks if done first
He can get wicked combos with u-air and n-air since they pull off so fast with little to no lag
His cape has more range then people think, and it can basically stop anything and in the right position, get yourself an easy K.O
F.L.U.D.D is surprisingly amazing at gimping and you can totally fake someone out by charging it up, running close to the edge, waiting to use it, then fall off the edge and do a f-air for the spike
Obviously his fire, which can get kinda easy to spam, but sets up perfectly for doing a cape or basically anything else from it.
D-smash and U-smash get off quick and are quite powerful, and if connected with the fire part for f-smash,well, it can sometimes kill at like.. 75%

If I've missed anything, sorry. I haven't learned all there is to know about Mario yet.. But he's really REALLY good.

you mentioned he has some nifty tricks... but his core gamplay's too weak.

he doesn't have exceptional kill power or damage wracking abilities, nor does he have a hell of a lot of range. and, I mean his less than stellar priority and recovery... it's just to easy to beat him. As a general rule in brawl, it's better to be exceptional at one thing than mediocre at two.... and Mario's just not exceptional at ANYTHING.... even with all his edgeguarding options... they are only so effective and against some recoveries they are rather innefective.

 

[Mewt73]

Mario has good combos to rack up the damage.
One that from 0 can get up to at least 40
is grab, throw down jump up, get 2 u-airs in
chances are you can grab again, and maybe repeat, but probably not, you'll only get in one u-air.
mario can also do many things from his d-air if your in the right spot when doing the move. which can go into neutral a or a smash.
f-smash can kill, like I said, at 75 some times
u-smash around 105
d-smash considers where you are on the board, edge.. like 85
away like.. 140 maybe
n-air if connected great can kill at 100
b-air if connected correctly can kill at 95 or somewhere around there
u-air if connected correctly can kill at 115
f-air is a spike, and if connected like the dr.mario f-air it can kill at around 105
d-air can kill at like 200 xD
it's not that bad actually.
Mario is kinda tricky in the air too, which I consider a plus. Not as whacky as wario, but he moves smoothly in the air. His exceptional thing is his cape I believe. and even f.l.u.d.d
a well placed fludd combined with a smash or f-air for the spike works with mostly everyone.
Anddd... mario doesn't really have any moves with that much lag, it's easy for him to get his shield up or ground dodge, and to me, it looks as if he can ground dodge quicker than most characters.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Mario has good combos to rack up the damage.
One that from 0 can get up to at least 40
is grab, throw down jump up, get 2 u-airs in
chances are you can grab again, and maybe repeat, but probably not, you'll only get in one u-air.
mario can also do many things from his d-air if your in the right spot when doing the move. which can go into neutral a or a smash.
f-smash can kill, like I said, at 75 some times
u-smash around 105
d-smash considers where you are on the board, edge.. like 85
away like.. 140 maybe
n-air if connected great can kill at 100
b-air if connected correctly can kill at 95 or somewhere around there
u-air if connected correctly can kill at 115
f-air is a spike, and if connected like the dr.mario f-air it can kill at around 105
d-air can kill at like 200 xD
it's not that bad actually.
Mario is kinda tricky in the air too, which I consider a plus. Not as whacky as wario, but he moves smoothly in the air. His exceptional thing is his cape I believe. and even f.l.u.d.d
a well placed fludd combined with a smash or f-air for the spike works with mostly everyone.
Anddd... mario doesn't really have any moves with that much lag, it's easy for him to get his shield up or ground dodge, and to me, it looks as if he can ground dodge quicker than most characters.

Please stop.

 

[zhao_guang]

You mainly mention Mario's KO options, without mentioning moves to GET them into a KO position, save that grab combo, which is very easy to dodge. You'll get a d-throw and u-air against a good opponent at the most. Mario's lack of range and priority put him at a disadvantage, let alone his below average recovery. He's pretty situational, and that just doesn't cut it for top tier. He lacks variety

That doesn't mean there won't be good players using him, it just means he can't compete against high level Snake, MK, Rob users ( and many more)

 

[BoTastic!]

You mainly mention Mario's KO options, without mentioning moves to GET them into a KO position, save that grab combo, which is very easy to dodge. You'll get a d-throw and u-air against a good opponent at the most. Mario's lack of range and priority put him at a disadvantage, let alone his below average recovery. He's pretty situational, and that just doesn't cut it for top tier. He lacks variety

That doesn't mean there won't be good players using him, it just means he can't compete against high level Snake, MK, Rob users ( and many more)

Mario beats Rob in case u didn't know.. and his priority is average not bad.. He's mid tier at best.

 

[Divinokage]

lol at one liners again... you scrubs really need to do a very long analysis for one character. Just because maybe Mario is good vs ROB doesn't make him high tier at all. I would really love to see a big chart for each character, how about you do Mario vs all the characters chart?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

You mainly mention Mario's KO options, without mentioning moves to GET them into a KO position, save that grab combo, which is very easy to dodge. You'll get a d-throw and u-air against a good opponent at the most. Mario's lack of range and priority put him at a disadvantage, let alone his below average recovery. He's pretty situational, and that just doesn't cut it for top tier. He lacks variety

That doesn't mean there won't be good players using him, it just means he can't compete against high level Snake, MK, Rob users ( and many more)

as well as that, he also showed when those KO moves would kill a light character, with bad DI, near the edge of the stage when charged up.

I mean it might not have been all these things, but as a Zelda, a light character, I can say that an unchareged Fsmash will NOT kill me at damages that low... but on the other end of the spectrum... a ightning kick or a uair maybe... now THAT's something.

 

[BoTastic!]

lol at one liners again... you scrubs really need to do a very long analysis for one character. Just because maybe Mario is good vs ROB doesn't make him high tier at all. I would really love to see a big chart for each character, how about you do Mario vs all the characters chart?

He's mid tier at best.

when i get to point when i gotta quote myself theres a problem.. I was correcting someone, saying that mario beats rob, thats all. I know Mario's not high tier, he doesn't have the potential to do so... Anyone who thinks he's high tier must not be very smart, or unless their just joking around. He's an all around character just like he was in melee.

 

[Vyke]

I've just read twenty four pages of the most entertaining thread in awhile.

Good ****.