The Gta+Niagara Brawl Power Rankings! (last updated 06/28. OMG RLY!?)

[KingAce]

Cyan placed higher than niko beating harder people at mikeys as well, just because niko beat cyan in a direct set in pools doesnt mean he should be 10th. first is overall tourny placing, depending on the kind of bracket you get (i.e who you beat , was it a hard bracket or a easy bracket?)
then, if both people are almost equal in tourny placings and who they've beaten then the head to head should be the deciding factor as to who gets the 10th spot.

also whats this **** about duy's not counting? if anything it had equal or more competition than pownz and its a tourny where theres a payout with singles and doubles, it counts.

and delorted, treating pool matches the same as bracket matches wouldn't really work imo. i think pool matches should definately be taken seriously but not as much as the bracket. because everyone knows in pools if you lose twice, you just get a worse seed and if you win all or most of your matches you will get 1st or 2nd seed. in brackets, its you lose twice your out nothing more to say.

pools and brackets are different, so they should be weighted differently imo

 

[zeriph]

Duy's definitely had tougher competition than Pownz, disregarding Ally.

 

[Niko_K]

Not to mention in Niko's case the set in question is between two ranked players. No matter the setting, a ranked head-to-head counts guys.

My point exactly. I shouldn't even need to say anymore xD.

 

[Cyan_]

Yes pools matches should count, but like Ace said definitely not as much as bracket matches. Like Anth0ny taking 1 game off Ally. No offense to Anth. Also, since Wolfblade beat SilverDoc in pools 2-0 (or was it 2-1) does that mean Wolfblade should be higher than Doc on the PR? Hell to the no.

Pownz is a casual, its not on tournament listings, its on Canada forums.

And Doc, the location of the thread does not make the tournament a real tournament or not. Just cause Duy's is in the Canada sub-forum does NOT make it not a REAL tournament. Pownz used to make threads just in the Canada sub-forum, does that mean it wasn't a real tournament before, but now they post in Tournament Listings it is? That makes no fking sense.

Duy's had more competition than Pownz. Both are tournaments. Both you have to pay to enter, and both have prize money. End of discussion.

 

[Toronto Joe]

holy **** take this to PMs

 

[Stos]

settle this **** in the next tourney yo.

 

[Cyan_]

Why the hell should it be taken to PMs. We're talking about the PR.

 

[Wolfblade]

Yeah as far as pools and bracket are concerned... pools is still part of the tournament... its just... before brackets.

Things like wins and losses should be considered in pools, but brackets are stronger... why? Cause that's farther in the tournament.

Things like me 2-0ing Doc and Chaotic, as well as 2-1 Anthony should be noticed (same as Niko taking Cyan) but if they still beat you in the tourney, while beating noticeable people (especially those ranked above you) you shouldn't expect to increase yer rank.

Like I took Doc, but the guy still got a lot father than me in the tourney (I blame that jerk Minus for that... and Wario's gas...) so naturally he went up pretty good in the ranks.

Pools is a great way to decide up and comers, based on who beats who, as well as settling disputes if there is issues with rank, but brackets is still above.

Both pools and brackets you can get f*cked over via death bracket/ pool and that should also be taken into consideration where due. Though, so far, Mickey's pools were the best we've seen in the scene so far, where almost everyone in every pool was a skilled player.

The skills of Mickey's pools are obviously why people are arguing, and the panelists probably did take this into consideration, but in the end... the farther you make it in brackets... the closer you were to coming 2nd to Ally... and that's what counts most right?

Tourney organizers should be sure to post pools results after all tourneys from here on out, since the competition is getting tighter now, we gotta make sure some great players (veterans and noobs alike) aren't looked over in the future.

So to conclude... all of you guys complaining about placements... quit yer b*tching and just do better next time!

 

[SilverDoc~]

I meant to say duys is a casual, but nevermind Phil explained everything that needed to be said in perfect pinpoint detail so I'm satisfied, I'd say cyan and niko are neck and neck.

With Cyan a little bit further, just a little, sorry about my mistake pownz is not a casual duys is.

 

[Toronto Joe]

neither are casuals Doc

 

[Cyan_]

I meant to say duys is a casual, but nevermind Phil explained everything that needed to be said in perfect pinpoint detail so I'm satisfied, I'd say cyan and niko are neck and neck.

With Cyan a little bit further, just a little, sorry about my mistake pownz is not a casual duys is.

They are both tournaments. Did you not read what I said?

 

[pastaboy]

ok then! so if niagara had a small tourny in ayaz's basement, consiting of ayaz,me, nasir, percon,niko,rob, kc. it shuld count to pr. it has tough competition.

 

[Wolfblade]

ok then! so if niagara had a small tourny in ayaz's basement, consiting of ayaz,me, nasir, percon,niko,rob, kc. it shuld count to pr. it has tough competition.

Shoulda just used "Wolfblade" as the name. Lots of people don't know my name is Rob ha ha.

Hell, MDK took about 6 months before he learned my name was Rob

 

[Cyan_]

ok then! so if niagara had a small tourny in ayaz's basement, consiting of ayaz,me, nasir, percon,niko,rob, kc. it shuld count to pr. it has tough competition.

If it had about 30+ or so people and there is an entry fee, with both singles and doubles, I'd consider it a tournament. And some good competition too, with at least a few people that aren't in your region.

Duy's had sauga, toronto, and vaughan.

 

[SilverDoc~]

If it had about 30+ or so people and there is an entry fee, with both singles and doubles, I'd consider it a tournament. And some good competition too, with at least a few people that aren't in your region.

Duy's had sauga, toronto, and vaughan.

Now you're acting simply arrogant, if it has an entry fee and a prize to be dealt despite not having 30 + people, but still tough competition, yes it should count towards PR.

So as of now, any casual consisting of an entry fee / prize to be dealt, with tough competition counts towards PR, this post is based off your logic from previous posts Cyan not trying to be a jerk.

But its basically what you're saying.

 

[Cyan_]

Doc, with 30+ people, entry fee (and normal tournament with brackets with or w/out pools), tough competition, out or region-ers (niagara-ers in a sauga tourney), I think that should count towards the PR. Why wouldn't it be? And it's not a casual, it's a TOURNAMENT. Casuals usually don't have brackets or entry fees to enter the brackets...

It definitely shouldn't count as much as a tournament like Mikey's or FFYF, but why can't it count towards PR? What if a newcomer gets 1st at that tourney with Kingace, should that not count? Hmm?

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[SilverDoc~]

Doc, with 30+ people, entry fee (and normal tournament with brackets with or w/out pools), tough competition, out or region-ers (niagara-ers in a sauga tourney), I think that should count towards the PR. Why wouldn't it be? And it's not a casual, it's a TOURNAMENT. Casuals usually don't have brackets or entry fees to enter the brackets...

It definitely shouldn't count as much as a tournament like Mikey's or FFYF, but why can't it count towards PR? What if a newcomer gets 1st at that tourney with Kingace, should that not count? Hmm?

Anyone agree/disagree?

Absolutely, valid points but your previous posts consisted of anything with an entry fee / prize to be dealt with tough competition should count towards PR.

And now, you're saying anything with out of regioners, 30 + people, a newcomer beating kingace should count, like lol.

But as for this post, + " 30 " if you get my drift

 

[Cyan_]

Absolutely, valid points but your previous posts consisted of anything with an entry fee / prize to be dealt with tough competition should count towards PR.

And now, you're saying anything with out of regioners, 30 + people, a newcomer beating kingace should count, like lol.

But as for this post, + " 30 " if you get my drift

If it had about 30+ or so people and there is an entry fee, with both singles and doubles, I'd consider it a tournament. And some good competition too, with at least a few people that aren't in your region.

Duy's had sauga, toronto, and vaughan.

Can you not read? And my newcomer beating kingace was just an example.

 

[nickcam]

DUy's biweeklies is a tourney. The amount of competition there is ridiculous and as ive said before the brackets there end up looking like brackets from any larger sized tourney that we have because of the people who attend. That being said though if Niagara has basement tournies theres no reason why those shouldnt be counted but if theres like 6 people i cant see it being weighted very heavily. Anything with serious sets being played should count towards the PR,

 

[SilverDoc~]

The post before that, yes I can read btw lol.

Why the hell should it matter if out of regioners attend a tourney that isn't in they're region? Or if it has 30 + people.....

Personally, if it has 6 PR members and nothing more, that should count. Not the attendance....

Attendance and out of regioners are two completely different aspects of your speach, if the attendance had 6 PR members on it, but only 15 people, it should count as much as a tourney with the same ammount of PR members and 24 scrubs.

Now you see why I think you're arrogant..? Once again, not trying to be rude ::

 

[Cyan_]

24 scrubs? There's always some people that are good at the game, but just not U&C.

And 6 PR members? The last Duy's had exactly 6 PR members, and 3 U&C members, so that should count to the PR according to your logic. So why don't you think it should count to the PR/not be a tournament?

btw, do you even know what arrogant means, lol. what i said was not arrogant.

edit: btw, i'm through. if you wanna continue talking, PM me or IM me on AIM, but idc that much tbh i'll just leave it be

 

[pastaboy]

thnx doc for your support. Sauga happens to have a large population and good competition all around. Toronto and vaughan happen to be pretty close. So its pretty regional and kinda bias becuz niagara wuldnt be able to make them every 2 weeks.

i guess from now on niagara basement tourny will count toward the pr, there will be prize money, proper brackets, and some good competition and some not. to bad niagara failz

 

[nasir123]

umm to what king ace said and niko

you can go both ways

like if your in a pools match and u kinda suck then u gotta try and if ur good u still gotta get out but i don't gotta try as hard.

EDIT: LOLL SEX JOKE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[KingAce]

jarred thers 1 niagara pr member and 2 UnC -.- lmao if theres prize money and proper brackets thats ok. but niagara doesnt have as good competition as sauga/toronto/vaughan lmao no offence to all the niagara smashers

btw are most of the people goin to Pownz? most likely expect an update after that if ppl are actually goin

 

[pastaboy]

agreed that competition isnt as tight as vaughan toronto, suaga, but were aight and were not that big but w.e. its hard to get up there to suaga frequently so niagara will keep getting shafted. The only place where we can get noticed is at BIG tournies, but by that time, other people have been getting noticed at duys. i understand becuase nikos triweeklies counted toward pr back in the day but that was when the scene was very very small.

w/e if i had a car id try to go to duys but unfortunatly i dont.

 

[KingAce]

yeah you make a good point, if you guys had small biweeklies or triweeklies w.e and it was mostly only niagara with all your good playesr showing up it could indirectly count towards the pr maybe. what i mean is like if someone is doing really well down there in those tournies, then comes to a big tourny and performs just as good then they can be recognized as more than someone who maybe just had a "good" tourny and we can take into account that on top of doing good at a big tourny, theyre also tearing it up in niagara =)

 

[Toronto Joe]

you guys should be arguing if pownz should count not DUYs lol, you can get top 10 at those with secondaries...

edit: **** Phil be ****** with replies and shiz

 

[Runawayfire]

Its funny cause Niko and Cyan were like dead even, and either decision would have been argue able. In the end we place Cyan above just barely.
Cyan and Joe getting 3rd in doubles plus him and Niko inevitably being tied in singles helped pushed things in Cyan's favour.

Many spots were really close, the next tournaments are going to have a large effect on where people end up in the future. For anyone to rise or even stop certain people from rising above them they will have to perform this next tournament. For almost every member on the list the next tournament is critical.

 

[nasir123]

k well you can't compare niagara as bad compitition because we jsut don't go to many tournements but when we do we are wreck

such as; pastaboy got top 10 at mickey's and niko got top 5 at pownz and max got first at pownz. so don't say were no compitotion because i will prolly goig to pownz....


IF I CAN GET A FKIN RIDE

 

[The_Fool]

PRs are about relative skill.
As stated in the OP (or at least last time I checked) it doesnt really matter how well you place at a tourny, it's about who you beat and lose too. With this in mind, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE AT THE TOURNY. Also, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY SKILLED PLAYERS THERE ARE IF YOU DIDN'T PLAY THEM, since you don't play most people in the bracket anyways. Your relative ranking to other players goes up as you beat them, and down as you lose to them. It seems like the argument now is that doc and Niagra don't like the idea of casuals held in sauga that affect the PRs because they cant attend, but this doesnt matter. There is no point in not using the data of who beats who at duys if you want a competely accurate representation of the skills of different players, since you will want all the data you can get. If lets say, in the hypothetical situation that somebody that was U&C named Cyan goes to a tournament where some Niagra/Doc people didn't attend, and destroys everyone there, including the #1 ranked person in GTAN, its a clue that maybe he is a bit better than U&C. See that? his relative skill to other players that didn't attend the tournament was measured because he beat people that are on the PR and matter. What if he lost to Joe,(was ranked #10,) at the tourny, again, this would be a clue that maybe he still does belong and U&C(I know this didnt actually happen).

BASICALLY:
Attendance isnt a large factor
Duys should count because you can still use the data from the tournamnt to rank the skill of a player, even with some people not present

DONE

P.S: I don't think that pools matches should count, everyone inevitably sandbags in pools, seriously.

 

[pastaboy]

now that i think about it.

pownz is like niagara monthlies, its rly close to niagara and easy to access for us

duys biweelies is closer to vaughan and toronto so it kinda evens out in the end. both sides of the region have tournies to get " noticed"

edit: i think pools should be weighted just the same, to reduce sandbagging and problems. Because all you get is "OMG I BEAT (INSERT PR MEMBER HERE) IN POOLS I SHULD BE ON THE PR.

 

[Cyan_]

Don't worry Niko, you'll probably get 10th spot. I'm not coming to any July tourneys.

;_;

edit: i can't believe how many people say toronto AND vaughan now. makes me proud. used to be just Toronto or GTA lol

 

[pastaboy]

we still better team for at least one tourny

 

[AvariceX]

first is overall tourny placing, depending on the kind of bracket you get (i.e who you beat , was it a hard bracket or a easy bracket?)

treating pool matches the same as bracket matches wouldn't really work imo. i think pool matches should definately be taken seriously but not as much as the bracket. because everyone knows in pools if you lose twice, you just get a worse seed and if you win all or most of your matches you will get 1st or 2nd seed. in brackets, its you lose twice your out nothing more to say.

pools and brackets are different, so they should be weighted differently imo

Several people have stated before that who you face in tournament is more important than what place you get.

Also by this logic if you want to get on the PR you should deliberately sandbag in pools. This setup punishes people who play well enough in pools to get 1st/2nd seed, because then they don't play the better players in bracket (since that's what pool seeding is for) until they get to the very end of the bracket when they are playing the very best. Those people then lose to the best players and will probably be overlooked because they had an easy bracket even though they may have beat some very good players in pools (which is the reason they had an easy bracket).

This is the problem with treating pools matches and bracket matches differently.

 

[pastaboy]

ppl care to much bout there ego to sandbag in pools to face delibratly face tougher opponets in brackets

 

[KingAce]

Several people state that who you face is more important than what place you get?
It all depends on the situation, the argument I was talking about earlier was the whole Niko vs Cyan thing. I said that yes niko beat cyan head to head in tournament, BUT cyan still beat harder people to face making me say overall tourny placing works in favour for Cyan and sort of negates the argument that "O look guys niko beat cyan in pools! he shud be 10th instead of cyan"

Also, notice how I said "depending on the kind of bracket you get", meaning if you had an easy bracket then it will be treated differently then if you had a hard bracket.

Anyways, no this logic does not say you should deliberately sandbag in pools. In a big tournament setting, I personally know since I have helped Minus, Niko? ,Mikey and Percon in helping to set up pools that usuallly, there is usually a lock on 1st/2nd seeds in each pool. atleast, thats typically what happens. anyways, if you work hard to get 1st/2nd in your pool you won't face easy people, its a BRACKET (usually 32 man) meaning that its the top 32 people, so do the math. there are 10 PR members, a bunch of UnC and a LOT of other players that could of been on UnC but isnt enough room for them all to be on UnC.

So, if you get 1st seed and win your first match it will be against a 4th/5th/6th seed, ok.
Now, 16 people are left on the winners side meaning you will most likely already be facing 2nd/3rd seed from another pool. Does that not give you a chance to face one of the "better players in the bracket"?

And another thing, man you really don't make sense lmao, ill give a quick example. Pretend this is a huge tourny like an OiN with all the PR members present+ MTL. Now pretend there are 8 pools of whatever number... off the top of my head I would easily put the 8 pool leaders as
Ally, Holy, Kingace, Ambrose, Percon, Hype, Nickcam, Doc
then you would have people like Minus, J.L, TOJoe, Cyan etc. spread across those pools accordingly.
If you can come 1/2nd in any of those pools you will immediately be recognized in the PR update, because pool matches still count, just not as much as brackets.
What your saying about the "deliberately sandbag in pools" Yeah, good luck on sandbagging in those kinds of pools to barely make it out and face any ONE of those 1st seeds and get ready to lose your first bracket match. Your going nowhere in that tournament. Your placing will suffer and then you won't wanna sandbag in any more of your pools matches.

edit: this was directed @ avaricex post above

 

[AvariceX]

ppl care to much bout there ego to sandbag in pools to face delibratly face tougher opponets in brackets

Obviously they won't normally do it. But that's still a problem, because with the exact same example I gave above now you have an egotistical person with an easy bracket who gets overlooked because he lost to one of the best players even though he beat good players in pools (since pools results are very rarely actually kept track of after brackets start).

New example, don't take any offense if I use any of your names because this is just hypothetical and I'm only using people for their spots on the PR:

(I'm using myself as an example for simplicity and I'm not implying I would actually beat these people).

Say at Pownz this month I get pooled with Ambrose, Fool and TO Joe, now say I beat Joe 2-0, beat Fool 2-1 and beat Ambrose 2-1 and I end up with first seed. Now in a hypothetical bracket let's say I beat Shifu, Splon, and Stan, then lose to Ally in winners' bracket then lose to KingAce in losers' bracket.

Now take someone else who was in my pool who lost 0-2 to Brose, Joe, and Fool, and ends up with fourth seed and a harder bracket. Maybe they were sandbagging, maybe they just weren't playing their best in pools, but in brackets they beat Cyan, Mikey, and Minus, then lose to Ambrose and Joe.

We both make it just as far in tournament, we both beat 3 PR/U&C members, But I did better in pools so I get a comparatively easy bracket and am inevitably ousted by Ace/Ally, while he loses to Brose and Joe (who are obviously both great players, but I've already beat them in pools and maybe would have done it again, but I had to face Ally/Ace instead).

At the end of the day the pools results get thrown in the trash because maybe people were sandbagging in pools so they shouldn't matter as much. The panelists see one person who beats Shifu, Splon, and Stan in brackets, and one who beat Cyan, Mikey and Minus. Now after I bust my *** in pools to get first seed, who do you think the panelists recognize as PR material from those bracket results?

(Again, COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL).

And once again, this is the problem with treating pools matches and bracket matches differently.

tl;dr: No johns, don't sandbag in pools.

edit: Ace I typed this while you were posting above so I hadn't seen it yet.

Valid points, and I honestly can't really argue with them. Also I'm not saying you're inferring this but I want to make it clear I'm not trying to john for myself since I've stated at least 3 times earlier in this thread that there are other people (who aren't even on U&C yet) who deserve PR recognition before me.

Any time I see a flaw with something I just feel the need to point it out. I'm trying to be helpful

 

[KingAce]

Ok, yeah I already see something wrong with your post. No offence to anyone, but AvariceX even if you did get 1st seed you would NOT get Shifu, Splon, and Stan. You would probably get something more like (for example) Shifu, Mikey, Minus, Ally.

If you were to get Shifu, Splon, and Stan then that means that the T.O did not make the bracket properly lmao..... which is why we need to use tournaments with proper brackets

Now you see why even if you **** pools, if you choke in brackets your pool matches are kinda void?

edit: wrote this before ur edit lol

 

[AvariceX]

Yeah that's what I meant when I said I hadn't seen your post so I wasn't really sure how the rest of the seeding would end up.

All I'm saying is it's very possible for person A to place higher than person B and person B could be considered for PR/U&C while person A is not. I know this much as fact since (excluding the last pownz) my last 4 tourney finishes were 5th, 9th, 9th, 13th...all top 15, yet I was never on the PR/U&C (top 15-16).

When you look at tournament results the better players should place better. The same should be true with a PR. One of these is obviously not the case; so either the PR system is flawed in some way, or the tourney results system is flawed in some way. That's really all I'm trying to say.

I'm sorry for stressing my results so much (they're just the only results I'm familiar enough with), so I feel the need to once again express that Gi and Pho and probably some others at the least deserve PR recognition before me.

 

[pastaboy]

obviousl the pr is flawed, but we try to make the best of it.